November CPW issue papers
Colorado
Short on time today, gotta get to the landfill... some issues papers have been posted which I have not reviewed thoroughly yet. Some potentially very important issues are being brought forth, including an option to change the leftover draw. The last time our draw was changed the results were not good for regular long time participants.
If you have the time to read them, I am looking for member input as to what you find concerning or encouraging.
http://cpw.state.co.us/Documents/Commission/2018/Nov/Item_17-W-2-Big-Game-Issues-Nov2018-PWCmtg.pdf
Steve
On page 4 of this document is states a possibility of creating more rifle bear season in September, which I know wont bode well with many bowhunters...
see link
Its nice to see a new bull moose hunt code for GMUs 53, 54, 63
Can we please get an archery only bear season?!
At least start archery bear when archery deer and elk begin.
Per statute, bear season cant start before Sept 2
I'm with InClose. You almost have to wait to kill your deer or elk until close to the start of the bear season, if your planning on hunting the gut pile. Kill to soon especially on a full moon and it"s gone. Bears are picking there teeth with those rib bones if not done at the right time.
Guessing we will get no support for removing all the gun hunters out of archery season this round either?
One commissioner who bowhunts, 4 new commissioners of which you can now read bios on the web. Removing rifle hunts in Sept is not a November issue paper, so unlikely this month.
Travis, if you count all of the rifle hunter that hunt some species in Sept, during the archery elk and deer time frame, the total might be around or more than 20,000 hunters. Rifle hunts in Sept. ie, bear, bh sheep, mt goats, high country deer, PLO elk, ML elk and deer, management elk on public, ML pronghorn, ML moose.
The definition of the Early Season time frame ie, A season for a variety of hunting opportunity and management, for a number of manners of take. All of the above and bow hunting fits that definition. A days of an archery only season, (if there ever was one) is in the distance past and will never be seen again. So will there ever be any support for removing all the gun hunters out of the archery season, Early Season? Read the tea leaves. NO.
September is prime time to harvest bears and given that many areas need to harvest more, it's unlikely that they will take gun hunters out of September and hope that bowhunting will succeed in meeting objectives. Just my opinion.
Sure seems like a lot more than that, Paul. Does really suck that we can not have a bow only season in Colorado.
Interesting that so many other states are able to do so.
The thing is, the best time to hunt bears is September. That said, where do you position a bow only hunt? Essentially, we have it if we want it by drawing a bear tag or getting an OTC with caps tag.
The only remaining issue IMO is crowding, but that's not going to change unless archery elk OTC goes away for non resident or resident and non resident. Heck, the best way to reduce the number of rifle hunters during bow season is if more bowhunters apply for bear tags!
But, just for myself, I don't seem to encounter rifle hunters when I'm bowhunting mostly other bow hunters and ml hunters during that season.
ML hunters are rifle hunters, just shorter range.
Bring back spring bear season and baiting if we need to kill more bears?
PECO, we all agree with that, but no way in hell will it happen with Dems controlling state legislature and governor. Whenever a bill is introduced to alter bear season it dies in committee.
Colorado’s FUBAR’d. Totally blue. Hell I’m getting the idea that the CPW is against hunting and trying to kill everything in the state so they can just hang out and draw a paycheck without having to work. Will sell as many licenses as they can for that last elk in the state.
I hope Wyoming doesn't lock the gate before I am in a position to relocate.
"ML hunters are rifle hunters, just shorter range."
That's true but for nine days rather than sep 2 to see 30.
If they want to increase bear harvest, tags should be OTC for hunts concurrent with any other tag you have. Why are they using the asinine OTC with caps? Rifle bear hunts in September should be restricted to areas where bears are a real problem, if at all.
Maybe they just don't want to kill that many bears?
I love the solution that was brought to the table regarding the leftover draws. So many people just casually check the box for a OTC tag or a refund and have ZERO clue that a secondary draw is even available to them. I always thought it was assinine that you had to check that stupid box anyways. That draw should be open to EVERYBODY regardless of whether you check a box, as well as include antelope and bear. Glad they finally got their stuff together on this one. That secondary draw has been a secret for far too long and the 90%+ success rate for those that do put in is a strong indicator that folks just don't understand the system.
I didn’t understand all of that proposal.
Since opening up the sale of return tags, I have thought that the leftover draw is a big waste of time and money by CPW, as well as the first day that the leftovers/returns go on sale down at their offices.
That is a huge circus and waste of time by the cpw for sure.
Do away with the leftover draw and just go straight to on-line sale of leftover and returned licenses on first come-first served basis.
Not sure if it's a waste of time for the CPW financially. This year they sold over 10,000 tags in the first hour of "Leftover Day". If you figure that each tag averages ~$100 (conservatively), factoring the non resident tags sold, than you gotta figure they made over $1,000,000 in an hour. They're going to sell those tags one way or the other, but they could always receive more money in application fees through a secondary draw process while at the same time alleviating some of the stress on the system come "Leftover Day". What I'm saying is that it would be nice to spread the process out a little more than just one crazy morning. My guess is that the server crashing EVERY year is a huge PR nightmare for them that I know they are desperate to try and solve. As far as I'm concerned there has never been any need to take part in that day other than for the reissued tags as long as you took part in the leftover draw. They figure for those that don't want to participate, than the few that do will forever and always be the ones who get the tags. It's really not that hard.
The discussion about the fiasco that Leftover Day becomes with their server crashing is a separate issue that has been hammered on every single internet hunting forum board. I think we can all agree that at the very minimum it sucks. However from what I've heard, and this is completely hearsay so please correct me if I'm wrong, there are performance clauses that the provider has FAILED to meet which the CPW could contractually fine them for. From what I've heard (again hearsay), the CPW have never levied a fine for failure to meet said performance clauses. My problem if this is true is that the CPW has not held up their fiduciary duty to their constituents... Us. It's a question I plan on asking at the meeting Friday. I hope that what I've heard is far from the truth.
The Leftover Draw has never been a secret. Its in black and white in the Regs each and every year.
Most times why people dont 'check the box' is because they dont want their $$$ tied up until after the Leftover Draw. The other times they are just dumb asses and cant read.
Personal opinion here, as an informed consumer. The leftover draw was always a reward for being smart enough to read and follow the rules given to me on a level playing field. It was part of a strategic informed personal plan.
We just went through the pay later process, which the CBA was the only org to stand up, testify in person, and say wait a minute. For guys who followed the established rules for years, you got thrown under the bus.
Now, less than year later, we want to totally change the rules for the leftover draw. It will no longer be a reward for the guy who spends the time to understand and play by the rules, but now the few available desirable tags on the list get opened up and available to thousands more applicants.
If you read the issue paper it says it is about "creating opportunity". The opportunity is already there, nothing is being created. For who? Guys who need coddled, handheld and babysat cause they can't read and follow dates and deadlines?
Be careful what you wish for, you may never draw a leftover license again.
Haven’t yet, Steve. I have never seen anything worth applying for a second time and always check the boxes for deer and elk.
Have picked up leftovers when they go on sale otc several times for late cow elk.
The OTC lists have some amazing tags pop up, but the leftover after the draw is usually just crap.
Interesting point of views here. Grasshoppers analogy to the "pay later" fiasco this year very well could be spot on as we saw the applications for the big 3 jump exponentially (and I shiver to think what will happen this coming year now that the words out).
Cnelk is correct in that it has never been a "secret", but people definitely didn't know about it. Hence why Grasshopper felt it was a reward for being one of the few that actually read the regulations. In the years that I didn't pull my tags I always looked forward to the leftover draw just to avoid the Leftover Day at ALL costs. With that being said I'm a firm believer in making the CPW system more efficient anytime we can. While there are a few of us that know the system nearly inside and out we have to remember the effort it took to understand the system to the extent we do. The system is complicated at the very least. For me, I would hate to punish my friends, neighbors and family members just because they aren't as "dedicated" as I am. I enjoy seeing them get out and relish the opportunity to hunt with them. For the few of us that are truly dedicated, we will always find our opportunities every single year cause that's just what we do.
My biggest contention with the leftover tags is that they don't use preference points. I believe that if you pick up the tag >30 days prior to the season opening you should burn the points you have for that species. Point creeps a bitch that we need to start doing SOMETHING about.
I’m OK with the leftover tags not taking points, heck they are leftovers after everyone’s 1st through 4th choices!
Usually nothing very interesting on those lists and it just burns a crap load of time and effort to do the second draw.
Just put them up on line for sale First Come. Put up the returned tags on a separate list that will take points from the successful tag purchaser.
The return tags are a different issue and should take all your points for that species if you get that tag!
Same for the “special” goat tags. They should take points for those tags and incur a waiting period just like for any other goat tag.
Treeline- I misspoke and agree with you. I believe if a resident needed to draw the tag first choice than you should use preference points which would be just about every single reissued tag. However I would add the caveat that you only use points if the tag was purchased >30 days before the season opened. I don't think that it's fair to take points from folks on short notice.
Here is another idea that just came up in a conversation with several others who do the same thing I do.
Many of us apply for and draw Rifle Deer tags west of I-25 (mountains & foothills units) for November so we can hunt them when they are rutting. How about asking for an Archery Deer tag west of I-25 that opens around November 1st and runs thru the entire month of November. Preferably open statewide but we could start with PLO tags if that helps. We could wear orange during any open rifle season that overlaps. Bowhunters could chose to hunt this season rather than the Sept season thus reducing crowding some and giving them more time to concentrate on one species at a time. If they can do this with rifle hunters during the Archery season I see no reason not to do it for Bowhunters during rifle seasons.
Or we could just keep hunting like in other states.
I'll improvise adapt and overcome just like I did this year. Had 6 tags, only drew 2.
I like Arizona’s archery deer tags...
