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I made this deal so that myself and my brothers in law would have a place for ourselves and our kids. I’ve never asked my bros to help or purchase anything. They’ve never contributed but have hunted out there from time to time. They don’t utilize it like I hoped they would. Their favorite thing to do is sit in trucks in the cut fields, get drunk and shoot at anything that might run through the open, then they do deer drives in the standing corn which I’ve said time and time again is not allowed. I want that corn to be sanctuaries. Every year they complain about trespassing, lack of deer sightings and blah blah blah.

This year I made a deal with someone that gives up all rights to hunting for four years. It’s that guys hunting land now. Along with full permission to use and even relocate any of my stands however he sees fit. I’m perfectly fine with my deal and happy to be forced to actually learn how to hunt public land.

My bro in-laws are pissed. They feel like I screwed them. They feel like I should have talked to them before I made the deal. They feel like I shouldn’t have the right to make the trade I did. They know about the deal I made years ago and I think they always assumed I was just bullshiting them. Now they have to have their annual drunken gun hunt on public land where they can’t get away with sitting in trucks while the gun is outside and I think that’s what makes them the most mad.

Should I have talked to them beforehand? Should the fact that they are family supersede the work I put in and the deals I made? Am I just a selfish asshole?

Seems to me that you put in the time, effort and materials to acquire those hunting rights. Doesn't sound like they put any skin into the game or contributed in any way. And you gave them the gift of access with a few simple rules or requests for courtesy.

Then, they repeatedly disregarded your rules or wishes as far as hunting goes.

And they hunted illegally from their trucks while drinking... putting who at risk?

I don't think that you're the azzhole.

I think that the guys with no respect, who contributed nothing, were given access and then ran roughshod across the property while drinking and hunting illegally need to do a little introspection... family or not.

Unfortunately, some family members don't seem to ascribe to the theory that family is supposed to treat each other better than they do strangers. I would never blow off the wishes of someone who gave me access. I'd find a way to make a positive impact. And if it was family, I'd find some way of making a greater contribution.

If none of it is in writing, it doesn't really matter as you don't own the land and aren't really leasing it. I'm not being a dick here. I have found out similar things the hard way in years past. Some of the best hunting advice I ever got was. If you don't own the land you are now hunting on. Chances are you will someday lose it.

Rut- that’s a good quote, probably a lot of truth to it too.

I spoke with my mother and father in law and explained the deal I wanted to make for the next four years. They both were ok with it. Said it was fine and I should go ahead and finalize the trade. The land is in the name of my father in laws brother. He’s the one I made the lifetime deal with. I spoke with him and he said he was fine with that and that I should go ahead and make the trade. All responsible parties were informed and approved before I finalized the trade.

That side of my family is unique in that I tend to be the peacemaker. I tend to be the one they all turn to for mediating disagreements between each other. We are not the kind of family that this situation will wreck relationships. We may get pissed at one another from time to time but we’re a strong family and this will blow over by Christmas. I’m not concerned about long term anger over this.

I have every right to do what I did and I had the proper permission ahead of time. If they actually used the land on a regular basis I never would have traded my rights to it. They complain and disregard the few small requests I asked of them. They are my brothers and I love them but they can be selfish pricks sometimes. Hopefully they will realize what they are missing and appreciate it more when they get it back.

Honestly I think the drunk hunting is the biggest reason they’re mad. Of course they won’t admit that but that’s what makes sense to me.

And just to clarify these are all BIL and not your brothers, right?

It sounds like it is bad luck, but without owning the land it's just a tough break I guess. Right or wrong if in the BIL shoes I'd probably be upset that my dad and uncle gave my sister's husband the run of the land. As you said you have some good opportunities to learn about some public land in the area now -- best of luck!

The trade was for 1,100 sq ft of reclaimed barnwood flooring retail price of 10k. I actually met the guy here on Bowsite. If the flooring retails for 10k that means he’s paying $2,500 to lease 1k acres per year. What the wood actually cost him is none of my business and he has delivered on his end of the deal. I too am delivering on my end of the deal by taking permission away from both bros in law and staying off the land myself. In my opinion it is a fair deal for both of us. He has a signed permission slip for the next four years. The land is essentially his for that time.

The drunk hunting is done now because even though both bros are idiots they’re not dumb enough to do that on public land. I will never turn them in for it even if they choose to do it again when the land is returned to my control. I think it’s stupid but not necessarily a huge deal on private land in my opinion.

Since the original deal I have put a new steel roof on the farmhouse free labor. I have helped clear tree lines with the dozer and cut many many truckloads of firewood. I’ve also remodeled the in-laws kitchen all free labor and everytime just made sure they know how much I love that land and appreciate having it. I’ve continued to earn my lifetime permission through hard work whenever needed. The bros have done absolutely nothing out there. It is what it is and both the deal and my trade are set in stone.

In hindsight, yes I’m an asshole for not warning the bros ahead of time and no I’m not an asshole because it is my control to trade or give away as I see fit.

I think that's a problem.

I originally made the deal so this could be private family hunting land. My bro in laws have taken one kid out there one time. They never bow hunt out there. They use it as a party place during gun season and no kids are allowed. They pull a camper into a cut bean field and basically only “hunt” a couple hours opening day. They hunt again for an hour or so on opening morning and then do deer drives through the cornfields. The deer are really in no danger but they push them all off the land.

I use the land for bowhunting. I don’t go up there for gun season anymore. They just started doing the drunk hunting after I stopped going up there and I only found out about it because my father in law told me. When I asked them about it they admitted that that’s what they do. How they live their lives and the choices they make are not my problem. They ask me to come and join them every year but I’m not interested in that kind of deer camp and now that I am sober I don’t want to be part of that anyway. I actually like a drinking boisterous deer camp atmosphere but not how they do it. I think the drinking should wait till after hunting is over.

Believe me, my father in law is very happy with this deal and very happy he doesn’t have to be the bad guy and kick them off himself. He’s very straight laced but doesn’t stand up to his wife. So I’ll be the asshole and he gets exactly what he wants.

The bros will get over it and hopefully be a little more mature by the time they are allowed back.

Zonks, I feel like this is the kind of family business that is acceptable to share here. I’m not sharing family secrets and was looking for outside opinions on this particular subject. Who better to ask than the hunting community that I respect?

I do think it was a bit of a self serving dick move. Not enough that I wouldn’t make the same deal again. I would warn them ahead of time though. If the rest of my family used the land and enjoyed the land as I intended I would not have made this deal. I have been increasingly frustrated with all the complaining my bils do about the land and their lack of work out there. Not even just on the hunting land but more so work for my in-laws. They’re not young and could use some strong arms once in a while. The bros absolutely refuse to help in any way. Not even unloading firewood. I do some kind of work for them or my dad in-laws brother everytime I go up there. I guess subconsciously the reason I didn’t warn the bros ahead of time was to possibly teach them a lesson and punish them for their lack of appreciation and sense of entitlement.

It’s not like they can’t gun hunt. They have 3,500 acres of public surrounding their homes. Plus multiple thousands of acres within a short drive. Again, I think the only reason they’re upset is that they can’t have their annual gun hunt. I’m ok with them being mad about that. In the end, we are a strong family and this will simply be a blip on the radar within a month or so.

Thank you all for your honest opinions. I will take the negative feedback and use it to try and improve personally. I will sit down and talk to the bros letting them know exactly how I feel and why I did what I did. I don’t think I owe them any explanation or fair warning since they have no skin in the game but it would have been the right thing to do. Being willing to accept negative comments and trying to be open minded while not getting defensive is what helps us grow and I appreciate that.

Btw, the flooring is beautiful and going to look amazing when finished.

Sorry to say Crusader you appear to be one shifty dude that has lost a lot of credibility with this crazy post. I wouldn`t trust you as far as I could throw you.

His father in law said he could have the hunting rights to it, doesn't matter if it cost him $6 or $6,000,000.

Is the family landowner upset about this? Doesn't seem so. Just seems other family members are. Families usually suck at communicating

"The drunk hunting is done now because even though both bros are idiots they’re not dumb enough to do that on public land. I will never turn them in for it even if they choose to do it again when the land is returned to my control. I think it’s stupid but not necessarily a huge deal on private land in my opinion. "

The last sentence I totally disagree with. I can not understand how ANYONE can allow alcohol and fire arms to mix. Imagine how you would feel if one of those drunkin BIL or one of their buddies shoots someone. I'd be putting my foot down or a foot up their ass if it continued. Best of luck to you...

The other half of me thinks that you have kept up with your bargain and continued on helping out. I would have worked out a deal to keep my BIL’s on the property for their gun season. In the end. If the owner is okay with it and your okay with it. Then our opinions don’t matter.

Its pretty awesome of you to put in the time, effort, and work to support your extended family and contribute to their projects. For that, the original agreement for hunting rights was great (and certainly balanced in your favor).

With that much acreage, there is no reason two responsible parties can't co-exist during hunting season. However, I fully agree that if your BILs don't contribute either financially or in maintenance of the land, OR are being grossly unsafe, there really should be no expectation of continued usage. If they have a problem with that, their beef should be with the landowner who signed rights to you.

I do not condone their drunk hunting. As family (even extended), I think its courteous to warn them to stop that behavior before involving the law, but if they are unresponsive to that, the moment their behavior becomes a danger to people other than themselves - you gotta do what you gotta do. There is no excuse for that type of dangerous jackassery.

The only thing that I think you "TECHNICALLY" did wrong was to not give them more of a heads up about the sub-letter. If your BILs have had a historic expectation to hunt there, you should be giving them a heads up as soon as the deal is inked. While their drunk hunting behavior is ridiculous, its common courtesy (family or not) to notify people in a timely manner so they can plan ahead. Holding onto that info for a period of time is just jerking them around.

Although you cleared the sub-letter with the appropriate parties, I disagree with your decision to do so. Your original agreement was for hunting rights and access to the land. I think using your equity for material/financial gain goes against the spirit of the original agreement. The landowner gave his permission, but are you certain he is really OK with it? Just seems like he deserves a cut of the deal, or some other consideration. But perhaps he already gets his benefit with how much you help out around the place. Either way, just sounds like some horse-trading I wouldn't want to partake in.

I'm confused as to why he gave his Brother's SIL (no blood) full run of the property. That is what confuses me the most.

All the more reason in my mind to own land by myself.

I am not one to judge and realize that every story has three versions, minimal. Sounds like a good ol' family mess to me. Good luck with the upcoming holidays!

If this seems like dirty family laundry than your fam must be damn near perfect because in my fam this is as simple as two bros being pissed at a 3rd. (Me). Definitely not some serious family business that has to remain secret. As I’ve said over and over. We are a strong family and this is really not a huge issue. I posted it because I knew I’d get feedback of all sorts and that feedback helps me grow as a person.

The bros were informed of the deal the moment it was set in stone, not before. I didn’t need their approval or permission to make the deal. I am an asshole because I should have told them about the deal while it was still in the works. Not because I took away something that never belonged to them in the first place. I didn’t tell them earlier because I knew they wouldn’t be happy and didn’t want to have an argument if the deal never came to fruition. Subconsciously I think I also kept it from them because I’m increasingly angry at how they treat the land and the in laws. Talking to them doesn’t work. I’ve tried. I shouldn’t have to ask them to help my in-laws or contribute a deer stand or two.

All responsible parties are happy with the deal. It’s a 110yr farm. My fil and his brother own it but the land is in his brothers name just to keep things easy for tax purposes. Neither brother have kids of their own. Who’s name is on the deed to the land is a moot point because I own the hunting rights. The name on the deed approved of my deal ahead of time.

I also have a really nice boat that the bros come down and use from time to time. I make sure it’s full of gas and freshly cleaned before they take it. They return it empty. The way some of you make it sound is that I should have to get their approval if I ever decide to trade the boat for something that benefits me.

I do not regret the deal itself and have no qualms about making a deal that benefits me. That’s just business. Anytime I make a deal it’s going to benefit me or I won’t make the deal. The actual deed holder will still benefit from my free labor. My father in law will still benefit from my free labor and also no longer have to worry about the drunk hunting. He’s happiest with the deal.

I don’t need to justify the deal itself and I don’t need to feel bad about kicking the bros off for a few years. In my book you have no say unless you earn your keep and they haven’t. They’ve simply benefited from my original deal and my continued hard work. Many of you would describe that as receiving welfare.

In my simple mind the only thing I did wrong was knowingly not warn the bros that a deal was in the works.

I also feel this guy got the deal of the century. 1000 acres to hunt for 4 years for 10,000. 300 acres for 4 years would have been just fine. Even if you gave him 500 acres. You and your family still has 500 acres. That i dont understand. I hope everything turns out ok for you and the family

The truth is that we are all assholes from time to time. Part of personal growth is being willing to admit it and make a sincere apology when it’s deserved. Sometimes it takes someone else to help us realize when we are being a selfish dick because we can justify many things that are self serving in our own heads. That was my whole point of this exercise. Thank you for participating.

Even though it’s a lot of land and I absolutely love it. I didn’t feel it was worth more than that because of its close proximity to town and highways. An atv trail also runs through it. There are plenty of deer and some really big ones but I felt like the negatives are enough to not warrant a sky high price. I’m sure the floor guy will kill a few deer up there and hopefully a few big bucks. I’m glad I don’t have to worry about the bros killing whatever happens to run past their trucks. If everything works out with the flooring guy he will most likely become one of the group and end up with lifetime permission as well. It makes me feel good to have someone there that appreciates the land the same way I do.