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CBA statement on bull only licenses
Colorado
Contributors to this thread:
Grasshopper 18-Dec-18
Treeline 18-Dec-18
Stoneman 18-Dec-18
PECO 18-Dec-18
Treeline 18-Dec-18
Ziek 18-Dec-18
Bondo 18-Dec-18
fawn 18-Dec-18
fawn 18-Dec-18
Grasshopper 18-Dec-18
RogBow 18-Dec-18
Longcruise 18-Dec-18
yooper89 19-Dec-18
COHOYTHUNTER 19-Dec-18
tinman 19-Dec-18
Paul@thefort 19-Dec-18
tradi-doerr 19-Dec-18
Ursman 19-Dec-18
Stix 20-Dec-18
zimmy 20-Dec-18
Sniff 20-Dec-18
coelker 21-Dec-18
Highway Star 21-Dec-18
jb 22-Dec-18
Cheesehead 23-Dec-18
goelk 26-Dec-18
fishnride 26-Dec-18
Longcruise 26-Dec-18
zimmy 26-Dec-18
Grasshopper 26-Dec-18
Longcruise 26-Dec-18
Glunt@work 26-Dec-18
Stoneman 26-Dec-18
ColoBull 27-Dec-18
Bow Bullet 27-Dec-18
Bow Bullet 27-Dec-18
goelk 27-Dec-18
wifishkiller 28-Dec-18
Cheesehead 09-Jan-19
fishnride 09-Jan-19
COHOYTHUNTER 09-Jan-19
Treeline 09-Jan-19
COHOYTHUNTER 09-Jan-19
Treeline 09-Jan-19
yooper89 09-Jan-19
Grasshopper 09-Jan-19
Grasshopper 09-Jan-19
Stix 09-Jan-19
Longcruise 09-Jan-19
Treeline 09-Jan-19
Grasshopper 09-Jan-19
Stix 09-Jan-19
coelker 09-Jan-19
Grasshopper 09-Jan-19
COHOYTHUNTER 09-Jan-19
fishnride 09-Jan-19
Glunt@work 10-Jan-19
Treeline 10-Jan-19
PECO 10-Jan-19
Longcruise 10-Jan-19
From: Grasshopper
18-Dec-18

Grasshopper's Link
I have final board approval to send this out. This relates to the E-16 DAU issue paper that the wildlife commission will take final action on January. The CPW preferred alternative in this issue paper is to make all archery licenses bull only instead of either sex(for now).

We are asking bowhunters to email the commission at [email protected] and tell the commission you support alternative 2, which will retain archery licenses as either sex.

Let me know if I have an typos or errors, I intend to send this far and wide after keen eyes on bowsite help me look for errors and omissions.

If we do nothing on this, expect bull only licenses. THE DEADLINE FOR YOUR EMAILS TO THE COMMISSION IS DECEMBER 27TH AT NOON

Thanks

Steve

From: Treeline
18-Dec-18
Thanks for the heads up, Steve. Will work on something and get out to other bow hunters to hopefully get some support against this measure.

From: Stoneman
18-Dec-18
First off, thanks again Steve.

For clarification, interested individuals only need to send this email: "Attention Wildlife Commission, I support alternative 2, which will retain archery licenses as either sex."

From: PECO
18-Dec-18
Done. So what is the vibe, are they going to listen to us, or just go through the motions and do what they want?

From: Treeline
18-Dec-18
Will read your position paper in detail later, Steve, but just a brief review and it looks like you got all the pertinent points! Excellent work!

From: Ziek
18-Dec-18
Thanks Steve. Nothing jumped out at me that needs correcting.

From: Bondo
18-Dec-18
Thank you Steve! Not a CBA member at this time but I am an avid bowhunter and I do appreciate your efforts greatly. Email sent.

From: fawn
18-Dec-18
Done!

From: fawn
18-Dec-18
Would you share this on the Elk Forum?

From: Grasshopper
18-Dec-18
Yes, later tonight I will

From: RogBow
18-Dec-18
Done

From: Longcruise
18-Dec-18
Email sent

From: yooper89
19-Dec-18
Thanks Steve. I sent an email to the Commission.

From: COHOYTHUNTER
19-Dec-18
email sent

From: tinman
19-Dec-18
Sent!

From: Paul@thefort
19-Dec-18
sent

From: tradi-doerr
19-Dec-18
Sent

From: Ursman
19-Dec-18
Sent

From: Stix
20-Dec-18
My email to commissioners: To Commissioners, As a lifelong sportsman of this state, I would like to express my concerns over a CPW staff recommendation to implement a bull only elk archery OTC license for the E-16 DAU. This recommendation does not take into consideration that archers harvest a very small amount of elk in general in these units, and throughout the state. Archery is not considered a game management tool because of these low harvest rates, whereas the rifle seasons, because of hunter numbers and higher harvest rates, are considered an effective game management tool. The only result to the implementation of this alternative is a net loss of hunting opportunity, not a means to control elk populations. This loss of archery opportunity and the misguided thought process to which it was proposed, sends the management of our big game herds down a slippery slope, that has the potential to spread throughout the state if allowed to proceed using his misguided thinking. The harvesting of bull and cow elk by archery hunters has an insignificant impact on our elk herds, and as I stated, the only impact that will result, is a loss of opportunity to archery elk hunters. I request that Alternative #2 be approved, which deals with the number of cow tags available to rifle hunters only, which historically has been the method game managers use to effectively manage big game herds. Implementing this option will allow big game managers the opportunity to examine how this strategy works, and make adjustments INCREMENTALLY as needed to ensure the overall health of the elk herd. This is sound game management.

Sincerely,

From: zimmy
20-Dec-18
Sent

From: Sniff
20-Dec-18
sent

From: coelker
21-Dec-18
Sent and shared on Facebook

From: Highway Star
21-Dec-18
sent

From: jb
22-Dec-18
Sent, and recived a reply thanking me for my comment.

From: Cheesehead
23-Dec-18
sent to each individually.

From: goelk
26-Dec-18
Sent

From: fishnride
26-Dec-18
Sent a few days ago and just got a reply

From: Longcruise
26-Dec-18
Never got a response

From: zimmy
26-Dec-18
Sent a few days ago and just got a reply

From: Grasshopper
26-Dec-18
I sent in our position paper today to beat the deadline, and heard back from Commissioner Zimmerman already.

This was the cover letter:

Honorable Commissioners & staff, Please take the time to review our attached Colorado Bowhunters Association public input on the E-16 issue paper up for final action at your January meeting. We are asking you to vote for alternative 2 on this issue paper. While we are greatly concerned about the elk in this herd which is estimated at a current size of 4612 elk, our archery cow harvest is already low. That said, we are ready to take steps to further lower our take. We are extremely concerned about the precedent of bull only archery licenses, and the likelihood of concept proliferation that we feel will forever change the future of bowhunting in Colorado. Given the magnitude and impact of this change, we strongly feel it should be required that any discussion of “bull only” licensing be held during BGSS, not January rule making. The southwest region has the same “bull only” proposal on the table, and has recognized that BGSS is the appropriate forum. In reviewing the data, several items jump out at us. The issue paper pie chart reflects over 3 years 87% of cow harvest is nonarchery, and 32% of the take is by PLO licensing. In 2018 cow and either sex licenses were cut by 780 licenses. These hunts have not concluded yet, we do not know the impact of the change, and now are immediately moving towards a proposal we feel will change bowhunting’s future across the state. Additionally, page 2 of the issue paper describes an inadequate public input process on a topic that will change archery licensing that has been in place since the 1940’s. BGSS has a robust public input process, specifically designed for this sort of major change type topic. We are appreciative to have had lengthy conversations with CPW staff on this matter, and continue to collaborate towards agreeable options including totally limited archery licensing in this DAU. We have requested adding additional alternatives for commission consideration and still have unanswered questions. We have been informed officially adding additional alternatives is not possible at this time. We have reviewed all pertinent science on this matter including historical licensing, and harvest data, herd management and distribution plans, and HPP minutes. In our attached letter we are offering specific suggestions to aid herd management goals, and appropriately shape and preserve the future of bowhunting for generations to come. We look forward to the meeting, plan to testify in person, and thank you for supporting alternative 2 on the E-16 issue paper. Steve Hilde CPW liaison, CBA board of directors

From: Longcruise
26-Dec-18
Very well written. Both respectful and insightful.

From: Glunt@work
26-Dec-18
Nicely done. We'll written and we'll reasoned.

From: Stoneman
26-Dec-18
Well done Steve, thank you for representing the CBA and Colorado bowhunters.

From: ColoBull
27-Dec-18
Last chances ticking away... Thanks Steve

From: Bow Bullet
27-Dec-18
Email sent

From: Bow Bullet
27-Dec-18
Keep sending support comments. According to the meeting notice, comments received after today's first deadline but before noon on January 4th will be forwarded to the commissioners in a second mailing.

From: goelk
27-Dec-18
Sent

From: wifishkiller
28-Dec-18
Sent

From: Cheesehead
09-Jan-19
So is this on the agenda???

From: fishnride
09-Jan-19

fishnride's Link
It’s happening right now. You can watch and listen at this link

From: COHOYTHUNTER
09-Jan-19
doesn't look good

From: Treeline
09-Jan-19
Total BS.

Typical.

Colorado wildlife commission sux.

From: COHOYTHUNTER
09-Jan-19
I am going to say this here and now. We as a bowhunting community have to stand up and do something. No more taking the backseat and hoping the next guy will do it. If we don't, say goodbye to the hunting opportunities we love in Colorado. Additionally, we as hunters as a whole need to stand up.. The hunting community, no more bow hunters against rifle hunters and visa versa. We are more powerful united in one cause than divided. The CPW consistently pushes an agenda that puts revenue and profits as the top priority, correct me if I am wrong but wildlife management should be the top priority. What concerns me is that votes are made without facts. We have to come together or we're doomed. And that's a fact Jack

From: Treeline
09-Jan-19
That would be a very small “w”...

We definitely got fu-ck-d again by those slime balls.

Yay.

From: yooper89
09-Jan-19
Based off the comments it doesn't sound like it went well. I didn't have a chance to listen. Can anybody shed some light on what went down?

From: Grasshopper
09-Jan-19
Not back home yet, had to stop to visit an I'll buddy. Will add more later, sad day for bowhunters. We now have bull only licenses in e-16

From: Grasshopper
09-Jan-19
Not back home yet, had to stop to visit an I'll buddy. Will add more later, sad day for bowhunters. We now have bull only licenses in e-16

From: Stix
09-Jan-19
I'd like to make a suggestion.

15 years ago during the 5 year bgss, cpw staff put forth a recommendation to shorten the archery season to 21 days. There was a charge led by folks on this site to make a mass contact to the governors office to express our displeasure with the process and that recommendation.

Gov. Bill Owens contacted the head of the DNR to direct the CPW to work with us to find an agreeable solution, and that recommendation was withdrawn, replaced with status quo 30 day season.

Since it appears that the CPW is not honoring it's position to collaborate with stakeholders, especially the CBA, who shows up for meetings and helps augment their work, especially with the fee increase, that from now on we do an end around of the process, and contact the governors office with our displeasure of any CPW issues we feel objectionable.

The CPW hates when sources outside there division gets involved in their realm, and having the governors advocate intervene will help keep any objectionable issues quiet. In other words, we go over their heads.

From: Longcruise
09-Jan-19
Well, Steve, everything you presented on that issue made it clear that bow hunters were not the problem. Actually not even a part of the problem!

Paul has said it here in reference to the "fairness doctrine" that CPW adheres to so often. IMO, It leads to wildlife decisions that are too tilted toward appeasement.

From: Treeline
09-Jan-19
Fairness:

Rifle hunts run from August through January.

Bow hunters get to share four weeks with rifle and muzzle loader hunters.

Yup. Sounds fair to me!

From: Grasshopper
09-Jan-19
Made it back home. What I was really disappointed in was the testimony of CWF and the outfitters/cattlemens association. We did a ton of analysis, and made very specific recommendations. Their testimony had no specific analysis, little substance other than we trust you to do what is right for elk. As I tried to express in my testimony, if you have 2600 mature breeding cows, and they produce 1300 calves in spring that turns into 900 by the fall through attrition - an archery take of 35 cows is not biologically detrimental. Biology lost today, in my opinion.

On the bright side, I was told the Sept 15-30 rifle cow hunt on public land was removed.

Also, the conflict with the High country buck start date was resolved on the floor, and will now not start on the archery opener.

Sorry guys, I tried. We should all thank John Howard for voting with the bowhunters - he was it.

Lastly, if you heard the comments from the commissioners, expect more of this in BGSS. The precendent happened today. We all need to step it up a few notches.

From: Stix
09-Jan-19
I'd like to make a suggestion. 15 years ago during the 5 year bgss, cpw staff put forth a recommendation to shorten the archery season to 21 days. There was a charge led by folks on this site to make a mass contact to the governors office to express our displeasure with the process and that recommendation.

Gov. Bill Owens contacted the head of the DNR to direct the CPW to work with us to find an agreeable solution, and that recommendation was withdrawn, replaced with status quo 30 day season.

Since it appears that the CPW is not honoring it's position to collaborate with stakeholders, especially the CBA, who shows up for meetings and helps augment their work, especially with the fee increase, that from now on we do an end around of the process, and contact the governors office with our displeasure of any CPW issues we feel objectionable.

The CPW hates when sources outside there division gets involved in their realm, and having the governors advocate intervene will help keep any objectionable issues quiet. In other words, we go over their heads, since they are no longer a reliable partner.

From: coelker
09-Jan-19
This absolutely sucks and is setting the stage for this to happen statewide in the BGSS.

It is unreal, the commissioners ignored the only group that had any teeth on the either/sex bow licenses. Was there anyone who spoke in favor of the limits besides the CPW personnel?

From: Grasshopper
09-Jan-19
Colorado Wildlife Federation

Colorado Outfitters Association/Cattlemens Association. bill canterbury reps for both

From: COHOYTHUNTER
09-Jan-19
I agree with Stix. The CPW obviously isn't concerned with our opinions. I say we come up with a unified consistent message and flood the governors office with emails, letters and petitions. I don't think I could hurt.

From: fishnride
09-Jan-19
It is true that they aren’t concerned with our opinions... this time. They did make a brief statement about how they had many public responses about the topic. In fact they mentioned that they received 129 responses on the topic.

Obviously we didn’t get the outcome we had hoped, but we did come together and make quite an effort. We shouldn’t let off the gas and we need to stick together with the upcoming agendas.

From: Glunt@work
10-Jan-19
I wish I were surprised. Another check in the "loss" column. What's the margin of error they figure when doing herd counts and estimates? - /+10%? Our total cow take is closer to 1% of the cows in E-16.

I'm glad they are fixing the early season high country dates but thats not a win, it just gets us back to normal.

I'm having a hard time finding any "wins" the last decade or more where we actually gained opportunity. Someone please remind of a couple. My wife gets nervous when I search Wyoming real estate every night.

Funny how we aren't an effective management tool due to our low success rate on some issues, but our small harvest is suddenly a big deal on others. Seems whichever one results in us losing is the one they use that day.

From: Treeline
10-Jan-19
It has been more than a decade Glunt.

When was the last time that a new archery season was added or expanded for any species?

Now count up the new or expanded rifle seasons in that same period.

To tal BS!

From: PECO
10-Jan-19
"In fact they mentioned that they received 129 responses on the topic." How many bow hunters hunt Colorado each year?

From: Longcruise
10-Jan-19
The thing about the Colorado Cattlemen's Association is that they are less concerned with elk biology and elk numbers as they are with bowhunter numbers. Many of them see us as trespassers on "their" public land!

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