I believe the management scheme needs to be more micro managed down to the WMU. For instance , the WMU you hunt in is 6K if I am correct ? The portion of 6K your property is located in is vastly different than the northwestern portion of 6 k. The solution is to tweek the WMU boundary. But, I don’t see the DEC doing anything but painting the NZ with a broad brush. Look at the DEC’s plan for wmu 6N, “no deer management objective.”Those of us with years of experience with actual boots on the ground in these units have little input or influence.
They easily could take a week off the front of the gun season and make it bow only without disrupting the core of the gun season. The NZ bow season has to be the shortest bow season in the country? It is less than 3 weeks. Just pitiful.
1) A Regular Northern zone season that runs over 40 days during the peak of the rut, in a region that low deer densities and poor habitat. ****Solution a statewide regular season that runs 10 days starting the first Saturday after Thanksgiving.
2) Southern Zone season that is over thirty days long and during last two weeks of the rut. ***** Solution. A state wide regular season that runs 10 days starting the first Saturday after thanksgiving
3) Either sex muzzleloader tags that may be used in DMU that have low or no quotas for antler-less deer. How in the world does that make sense? *** Solution. Tags are either sex in DMU thats have a quota for antler-less deer. In DMUs that do not have quota for antler-less deer the tag is good for legal bucks only. Or better still issue additional antler-less tags. **** Solution. Have 7 day season that runs next Saturday after the end of the regular season sate wide.
3) Either sex bow tags being used in DMU's that have no antler-less quotas. **** Solution. See above
4) Transferable DMPS? Who in their right mind thought this was good idea. You have guys drawing DMPS in units that have no intention of hunting in hopes that the can trade tags on line. ***** Solution. DMP's should be person and DMU specific.
5) Crossbows during the peak of the rut. We take a weapon that isn't archery and insert it into our archery season and then place in the peak of the rut were its already increased success rate will impact harvest the most. *** Solution. Make the first two weeks of the archery season concurrent with cross bow season.
6) Two buck limit state wide. Nothing except the season dates and lengths are as big a detriment to NY having a quality deer herd as the two buck limit for different weapons. **** Solution. One buck tag that maybe used in any season.
Those that advocate for a shorter gun season in the NZ, I question if they even hunt there ? Trial’s suggestion of a 10 day season opening after Thanksgiving makes me think he has never hunted much if any in the NZ, especially the central ADK’s or Tug Hill ?
I do not hunt the SZ, but do gun hunt in some of the wilderness areas of the ADK’s and the core of Tug Hill. I don’t think I’m going out on a limb saying you will receive little if any support for a shorter gun season in these areas from any hunters who hunt there. Should some of the WMU in the NZ have shorter gun seasons ? Maybe, but not all. That’s why again I say, deer management needs to be WMU specific.
*********I concede that there are limited areas, rather fragmented pockets of better habitat. Thats tends to be true in most larger densely forested area. Those areas not only have a higher deer densities they also tend to have higher hunter densities. All the more reason to have shorter a more concentrated deer season. Limits stress on the herd and still provides ample hunter opportunity.
Those that advocate for a shorter gun season in the NZ, I question if they even hunt there ? Trial’s suggestion of a 10 day season opening after Thanksgiving makes me think he has never hunted much if any in the NZ, especially the central ADK’s or Tug Hill ?
I have spent significant amount of time deer hunting the northern zone spread out over the 24 years I have had deer licenses in NY State. East of Schroon Lake, Indian Lake, Speculator, Minerva( I killed my first northern zone buck in loch muller), The five ponds wilderness area. And to the north I have hunted in Malone. I have also ran hounds in the central ADKs, near watertown, and fort drum as well as all through the ST Lawrence Valley. I started running hounds in 1996. And while I don't profess to know all things Northern Zone, I think I have fair experience base to draw from an opinion.
I do not hunt the SZ, but do gun hunt in some of the wilderness areas of the ADK’s and the core of Tug Hill. I don’t think I’m going out on a limb saying you will receive little if any support for a shorter gun season in these areas from any hunters who hunt there.
I know for a fact that NZ hunters by and large wouldn't support it, based on conservations with some of those I hunted with, however that doesn't mean that we shouldn't make changes. If we are happy with a sub par status quo then by all means keep doing what we are doing. But if the goal is in fact to improve then we need to start looking at different model to draw upon and hope to garner different results.
Should some of the WMU in the NZ have shorter gun seasons ? Maybe, but not all. That’s why again I say, deer management needs to be WMU specific.
I wont even going to the logistical nightmare, unintended problems and budget suck that would happen if NY had DMU specific seasons. Suffice to say I disagree with the premise.
Pat. I agree that there is no reason to have closed coyote season in NY. We have an abundant population, very little trapping and hunting is negligible.
I also agree that its disingenuous to open bear seasons state wide with hopes of an increased harvest yet not give hunters the means to accomplish that end. We have advocated extensively for both baiting and the use of hounds to hunt bear. Both present a sporting fair chase endeavor that is proven to be a sound use of the resource and has history of good management from a biological perspective.
, WMU specific is how most of the western states manage big game, and even though it may be a logistical challenge it does work. I have also hunted self guided for many years in Northwestern Ontario near Dryden and Kenora, and there too it is unit specific, with different regs per unit. Not that confusing if one can read and navigate a map.
I did say that maybe some areas of the NZ need a shorter gun season, so some of your comments make my point. However, I agree, I don’t see anything changing in the near future with the DEC management scheme. But, more and more gun hunters are passing yearling bucks, so that is a plus. Good discussion though.
I hate to say it but over the last decade I have become so sour on NY hunting to the point of being unreasonable, or unfair. I guess when I can go out of state a hunt 10 days and see more deer/bucks in that time then I see in NY in ten years it changes your perspective.