Contributors to this thread:
Is Bowhunter education required ?
Are NR's required to have bowhunter education to bowhunt KS?
No but it should be. Too many bucks lost every year.
Says the guy that bragged about hitting a running buck in the head from 400 yards. Or was it 500? Don’t mind our resident rifle hunter Jack. No you don’t need Bowhunter Ed.
He died right there as did the last three bucks I shot with a bow smartass.
If you can’t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. No need to get feisty when you get called out, fella.
It should be is right. I took the class with my son @42 in Colorado in 1989. I didn't have to cause I was old then. The youth of today at least around here need it for nothing more that to teach how to be an ethical hunter. I've had first hand experience with this here in my own county. No hunter needs a person without ethics setting a stand with in 50 yards of another hunter and think it is perfectly ok to do that to a another person. How about shot placement and blood trailing taught in BE. State regs. are gone over . Too many know it all in the woods and not enough can do it all . My2cents worth. Besides if you plan on ever hunting in another state you will probably need a Bowhunting Ed certificate.
Todays computer raised kids demand instant satisfaction and results. Too much trouble to do BE the right way.
Now that crossbows are legal and shoot like a rifle, there’s no need for “bow”hunter education. Regular hunter safety will suffice.
They did away with it for one reason, it made it harder for someone to buy a tag. Without BE they sell more tags. Same reason for dropping the age requirement. We should still have both.
West, you should be ashamed thinking like that. sarcasm..........
Cherney- How about You grab a long bow and we'll have us a contest, or how about you stop thinking your a professional because you shoot bucks with milk still on their lips?
I wish I'd have had the opportunity when I started. I was self taught and made a ton of mistakes the first few years. I still remember my very first hunt. I had made a plywood seat for an aluminum extension ladder and painted it camo. I rode the school bus to our friend's ranch and got in the stand with an hour till sunset. I had 3 does come under me in my very first sit but they winded me and left. I literally had no idea how to hunt the wind or that the deer's scapula would stop an arrow. I was 14 and shot a Browning 50# bow.
Bring back age requirements, do away with the "anyseason" tag, require BE (especially because crossbows are legal!), and require harvest reports for data collection.
How about you stop being a little prick? I didn't say anything that would suggest I am a professional..ever. All we are asking is that you stop being a douche. Is that too much to ask?
Some day they will have a person in diapers on film killing a buck. Does this help us all? Small children cannot process what they have just done.
I was just thinking you guys could send each other PM's, but then figured a thread meltdown might be kind of fun to watch. :)
I personally think kids should hunt... every 8yr old should have a Red Rider BB gun, a bird feeder in the yard, and a "no X-box in the daylight" rule! 14yrs is a great age to let them start chasing deer with a weapon in hand and 16yrs is a great age to let them carry a rifle. Its interesting to me that when I was younger and damn near everybody had guns... they weren't considered evil (just a tool), they were proudly displayed, a kid wouldn't worry about having a shotgun in his truck in the school parking lot, etc... that hunting required an age limit. Now that half the nation things guns are the root of all evil and that just owning one can change your psychology and make you prone to murder that lots of states have dropped the age limits to hunting with a gun. When we are talking regulations and politics there's lots of things that just don't make sense.
I started hunting (with a gun) when I was 7. The idea of an age limit is absurd. I intend to start my kids at a similar age. It’s the responsibility of the parent/ guardian to determine if a youngster is ready to start hunting, not the state.
We had an age limit on big game hunting until 2005. It was dropped for one reason.
Well I’m glad it was. Preventing kids from hunting isn’t a good thing.
Got my first rifle at eight but could not use it without an adult till thirteen. All these films now with little kids in blinds with tripods and crossguns don't seem right. Still don't think the really young ones get what they have done.
If thought for a second I was being a prick, then you must be pretty soft. I'll take you seriously when you can kill a mature buck. Now, I'm being a prick.
It did not prevent kids from hunting, it prevented them from hunting big game only.
I guess it is too much to ask. Maybe someday.
I'm proud to say that, even though I was past the requirement age, I took Bowhunter Ed. Both of my boys took it and even after the requirement was dropped, two of my granddaughters took the course.
I started my kids young and wish I would have waited for big game. Both boys hunt but are not passionate about it. My daughter ehh she is a teen you never know. I think a kid should be able to hunt when their parents believe it's time. I also believe a kid should not be able to get a buck tag until Hunters Safety course can be taken and passed. They can shoot does until then, but I bet alot of them would not be out in the field as much.
Matte I think part of the reason we are seeing hunter numbers drop is burn out. Much like little league baseball, youth basketball, youth football, etc kids suffer burnout. And we have burned them out hunting as well starting them at age 7. A 7 year old kid can not process what killing a deer is. Letting them tag along at 7 on a hunt or 2 is one thing. But dragging them out hunting and shooting at something is totally different. YOU CAN'T LIVE THROUGH THEM. Parents don't recognize burnout and are the worst at seeing it before it is too late. Let a kid have a little maturity and decide for themselves if hunting is for them. We have a young fellow on this thread who has already decided that his kids will hunt at age 7 just because he did. Not a good idea. I teach 300 plus elementary students everyday. They simply are not ready in 1st and 2nd grade. A bb gun is a kids best friend, not shotgun, not a high power, not a crossbow that they can't load til they are 16. I didn't mention bow because a kid doesn't have the draw length to hunt effectively until age 12.
MDW I did too. I was in my 30's when I took it. A huge mistake to drop it. Another financial decision by our great legislature towards conservation.
Amen clip I killed quail with a bb gun as a kid moved to a 410 and a 22 rabbit squirrel bulldog etc were on my hit list as a kid. My mom always said if i cleaned it she would cook it haha. Didn't shoot my first deer till age22,
Quail and Bullfrogs are about the best meat there is, second only to Crappie!!!!!!!!! Deer is right down there with Prairie Chicken and Skunk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mmmmm, bulldog! Lol. And you guys nailed it with quail, froglegs, and crappie. Great stuff. Speaking of which... I was catching a ton of crappie this time a year ago. Might have to find some open water tomorrow!
I'm old, it's hard to understand the instant gratification and entitlement generations. I'm fine with telling a kid "no, not until you've earned it...", whether that means waiting until a certain age (driver's license, drinking, military, etc.), until you've passed a test, or until the boss simply says yes. I'm big on progressions in life. Your first job should sort of suck and have low pay. Your first truck should break all the time and drink gas like it's lemon-aid. Your first girlfriend should only let you hold hands on the first date. Etc. Just my opinion though and I may come from a different background than others reading this. I truly feel the state didn't drop the age requirements to create better hunters or help parents.
Haha that's so true bullfrog are almost gone use to pond hop and get fifteen to twenty a day when we were kids you almost never see them now
Jason your so right kids today don't earn anything it's just given to then that's why they have no appreciation do any thing even the animal they just kilked
Hunted Poland a couple years ago. I really believe we should copy their hunter Ed requirements. Years worth of rigorous testing (including a shooting assessment as well as animal age assessment) and must accompany a mentor for 2 years before shooting an antlered/horned animal.
They did recently make a change I would NOT agree with... kids can’t hunt or even go hunting with their parents until they are 18... “Green Party” has taken some serious control of the government over there.
Thanks guys the best I can tell from this thread BE is NOT required, correct?
Jeff, I would like my kids to start hunting at a similar age as I did, but if I don’t believe they’re ready, or they don’t seem interested, then I’ll wait awhile. I started hunting at such a young age, and I never got burned out in the slightest. I understand where you’re coming from though. I just don’t think it should be the states decision on when a child is old enough to hunt.
Hypothetical question then. Should youth have to pay the same as an adult for hunting liscense and big game tags?
Matt, I say yes. And I'll go a step further and say they should hunt the same season's as adults too.
Agree with Catscratch. Even as a parent and as an educator... I see no need for a separate youth season.
Go ahead and argue hunter recruitment. I will not agree that it works until I see statistics from a long-term study. Please advise.
They've been letting toddlers hunt for how long now and hunter numbers are still declining?
But are deer hunters declining?
Thanks for the replies guys/gals .
Purely anecdotal but I teach high school and it sure doesn’t seem like there are as many hunting as when I graduated 20 years ago. Not even close. I’m in a suburban/rural area.
Quailhunter, Maybe it's because of the electronic age. I would bet my money on it. I have 6 grand kids all of which can take their fingers off the phone or I pad just long enough to go to the bathroom or eat.
That definitely has a lot to do with it.
Quailhunter, I started teaching in 2003. For the first couple of years the opening Wednesday of Rifle season might as well have been a holiday. I bet more than 50% of the kids I taught missed at least half a day of school opening day. A couple of years later it started to become rare for a kid to miss school on opening day. I asked several kids who had hunted previous years why they weren't hunting now... EVERYTIME the answer was "dad lost his place to hunt", "grandpa is leasing out the family land", "so and so has guys coming in from TX, Louisiana, PA, Michigan, etc and we can't hunt this year". Leasing killed youth hunting here. It wasn't social media, it wasn't phones, it wasn't x-box, it was leasing plain and simple... when dad lost his hunting ground the kids lost their hunting ground. The transition was heartbreaking. These kids grew up hunting as still wanted to hunt. A very small percentage of KS kids are growing up hunting now compared to 15yrs ago. The kids that hunt now have long term established land and will continue to get to hunt, it's just not a high percentage anymore.
^^^^^^ this is why baiting is so hurtful
Glad we have some fellow teachers on here. I think we have 3 kids who hunt in our building of 300. Having hunter ed as part of my pe classes is something that we have talked about . Hope it happens.
Friend of mine teaches in Natoma and they teach hunters ed
It should be. There are far more things to consider that are not covered in the basic Hunter Education Class and with those being mostly On-line classes with one day of written and on hands learning. There is far to much to be covered.
I believe it's mandatory in OK, all three of my sisters kids(Lenapah area) had to take it and other outdoor courses, should be here as well!
Cherney, I'm not sure I follow. Do you think hunters would drop their KS leases if they couldn't bait? What about guides... would they gobble up less land if they couldn't bait for their clients?
No bait means less mature bucks on camera (and likely less killed)...less mature bucks on camera means less interest in $3,000 hunts on marginal pieces of ground...less interest in $3,000 hunts on marginal pieces of ground means more marginal pieces of ground for youth and dads to take their kids out on to learn how to hunt...
I can see the logic in that, but not sure I think it would actually happen that way. The land I bowhunt was leased (for rifle season) for quite a few years and they never once brought a bag of corn with them. They were die-hard hunters who just wanted a chance at something they couldn't find in their home state. They would hunt from sun-up until sundown the entire time there were here, which was always the better part of a week. Nice guys and hard hunters. I think the lazy would step out or cheat, and the others would fill in.
There may be as much interest. I could be wrong that baiting has an impact, but I know several outfitters that sell 10+ hunts a year and lease 3,000+ acres each. That's a lot of land being claimed up that is now off limits to local guys. I'm not knocking the guys trying to make a living or the farmer/rancher for increasing his income, it's just that I selfishly don't like the end result and I don't believe they would be able to sell that many hunts without the bait, and if they can't sell as many hunts they likely wouldn't be able to lease as much ground. Like you said, individual guys may fill in those gaps by leasing 160 acres each instead of paying the outfitter for the hunt.
The trailcam logic makes a lot sense! No way to advertise giant deer would make a huge difference in how valuable the hunt was.
You'd still have extremely skilled guides, guys like Thornton, that kill big bucks every year without it. They'd probably still have thriving businesses and a good chunk of leased ground. But I bet there are a lot of outfitters who are bad hunters, like myself, who couldn't kill big bucks without bait no matter how hard they tried.
Not a requirement here unless it’s changed but quite a few schools have incorporated it into their outdoor ed programs as well as making the hunter safety course part of it.. Archery in schools program is actually pretty popular in Oklahoma and the ODWC has done a good job helping that get off the ground. I’ve taught high school for 18 years. They’ve changed a lot since I started. I’m back in my hometown and there aren’t very many that hunt anymore.
I think I’m the only one in town hauling around bird dogs.
If leasing and access are the huge problem...why are hunter numbers also dropping in states with huge amounts of public lands?
Because baiting is illegal on public lands, right Sito? Probably cost of equipment. It cost $150 for youth football now. Cell phones take priority.
I'd still bet on it, would take a few years...but quite honestly I hope I'm wrong. When people learn to actually hunt again they'll enjoy it so much more, whether they fill a tag or not!
Decrease in family size, urbanization, cost...
Not everyone was a trapper or mountain man. I think numbers for all types of land based sports and entertainment have decreased by huge amounts. Entertainment places from golf courses to Xtreme Gocart tracks are closing teams are hosting open try outs to fill roosters as not enough youth are joining. Youth football participation are down 38%. What will this mean to the NFL in 20 years? Believe me they are worried as much as we are about the future.
People are born with less testosterone these days.
Sito do you use robo ducks?
I don't own any but I've hunted over them, why? I do have a "Mojo" dove decoy. Is this supposed to be on the waterfowl thread Matt?
No. The way you rail on people for using corn and not hunting the right way is the same way alot of hardcore waterfowlers feel. Just tired of listening to you be a hypocrite.
Dude, you can't eat a decoy...use your brain.
Use your brain. Just like corn it gives people like your buddy Mike a chance to be successful without any skill. Just like corn. Only difference is you don't hold ducks in the same regard as deer so you will happily sit with 2 spinners wings flapping and brag about it. You are a fucking hypocrite and this is my last post on this site. Oh here is your buddy wanting to know why his remotes wont work. Its cool to have gadgets on remotes help you kill stuff huh? http://refugeforums.com/threads/baby-mojo-issue.1043533/
Cherney is right on about baiting and outfitters.
I had to laugh when someone mentioned some local outfitters on this page a few weeks ago as “reputable”.... we farm some of the ground they lease. You won’t find a tree stand that doesn’t have a Moultrie feeder strapped to a tree within 20 yards of the stand... guaranteed. The other dumps piles as high as the stand. I have never understood the enjoyment in any of that.
I’d venture to say 90%+ of outfitters bait heavily rather than actually scout/hunt... unfortunately, it has forced a lot of people into using the same tactics. When an outfitter leases extremely marginal (or very poor) ground next to awesome ground and pulls multiple deer off with bait to be killed(many bucks from 3-5 years old), leaves a horrible taste in the other guys mouth. “Can’t beat them join them” mentality... to which I have fallen victim.
Always knew there was something just not quite right with you Matt, safe travels.
P.S. For the record, Mike didn't have a decoy out when he killed his buck so I'm not sure where that came from. Also, Mike studied wind and stand locations more than anybody I've ever taken before...anybody. He's a brilliant guy, and a nice guy, and he doesn't have to come here and defend himself from someone who would act in that manner.
Be a man and come at me if you have an issue with me, if you feel you must use profane language send it in a PM...just be a man.
I’d venture to say that a lot of great outdoorsmen don’t regard a lot of wildlife the same as the whitetail deer.
I’ve hunted just about every species of animal that Kansas has to offer (excluding mule deer), love them all, but the whitetail is the top of my list of favorite game to pursue. I’d rank elk right there with the whitetail, but my chances of ever doing that again in Kansas is slim to none.
Ray you need to hunt more pheasants. A black dog chasing pheasants is as fun as it gets. You can do it all day long, not just dusk and dawn. If I never shot or seen another deer the rest of my life I would be fine with it as long as I could hunt pheasants with a labrador.
West, it’s been years since I’ve been. Used to go every year when my grandpa was still living. My dad, brothers, grandpa and a bunch of his friends would go. We’d stay at an old farmstead... great breakfast, tons of laughs, a thousand memories. Probably some of my favorite memories honestly... don’t miss the pheasant farts though. I would love to go back, but wouldn’t even know where to start honestly. I was a kid when we went and I have no connections with landowners like my grandpa did. Guess I need to put in some groundwork.
Ducks... can’t seem to get into that for some reason. Been a few times with good success. I’ve got some great places to go, but I really don’t like to eat them.
Used to love to quail hunt as well. We had a great Brittany... a lot of fun to watch. There’s so few of them anymore that I just can’t bring myself to kill one. I think they are getting better though.
Gonna be a long off season...
What’s Missouri doing correctly Writer? The 1/8 of a cent sales tax? Purchasing more public land? Managing for opportunity over quality?
Why is it we always see hunter numbers are dropping? Is this stance related to per capita? Looking back in time it seems numbers have risen.
Ray, you have connections. Just let me know if you want to shoot a few sometime.