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So I had a thought an have discussed it with my dad an a few others before. The price of land is getting ridiculous an the "better" it is for hunting/fishing the bigger the price tag. So with these crazy prices why not just save your $$ go on some guided hunts an enjoy life let someone else do the work an not have to worry about trespassers an damage to land/property etc.... Personally if I could afford a small chunk under 80 acres i'd be tickled an know I have something that I can go to anytime. So I guess what's the point to spending your life savings on land that can be hard to manage or may be worth half of what it is in 10-15 years when the deer all die off from out of state hunters :)
Best thing I've ever bought. I enjoy planting trees, building ponds, foodplots, and everything else. I've learned more about deer genetics, deer behavior and movement in the last 9 years than all the other years I've hunted combined. You are right, even if the hunting is not good, it's nice to have a place to go. Forget the poachers and trespassing. Put up trailcam s that send images to your phone email. My county has a ten minute response time to my place because it's only 5 miles out of town
Guided hunts are over rated IMO but they do have their place. I've found DIY hunts are more fulfilling. For the price of two cheap, guided deer hunts plus transportation, I could make my land payment for the entire year.
I bought land in 1997. Today, it is worth three times what I paid for it. Not a bad investment. Will land keep going up in price. I believe it will. Of course there will be ups and downs. More importantly it is a place I can always go for outdoor recreation, whether it is for deer hunting, quail hunting, fishing, or just cutting firewood. I have no interest in going on a guided hunt. All my out of state hunts have been DIY.
Own land for whitetail hunting and also go on guided hunts for other game. Love both
I found that I enjoy working/hunting/managing my own land a lot. I would rather spend my money and time doing that than going on guided hunts. To each their own though... I know guys that spend their money at the casino's or going to the movies every weekend. It's their money and it's their time and they can do what they want with it. If you like guided hunts then pass on land ownership.... it is expensive.
Tough decision, having a spot or two you can count on forever is nice! That said, there are lots of good DIY/OTC hunts out there for much less than an outfitter would charge...and most guided hunts aren't "hunt's" in any sense of the word anyway.
When the Deer all die off from out of state hunters ? Hadn't heard that one before.
To paraphrase Matte,'Ground!'
Hey York when all the fish died off at lake fork 15 yrs ago was that from out of state fishermen ?
I love working on ground to improve it so I would purchase land. That said I do see a day coming in the next 10 to 20 years were recreational land (hunting) is going to take a big hit. Recreational land has had incredible ROI in the last 20 years. My opinion on that is the baby boomers purchased the land because they grew up hunting and enjoy that aspect of land. They are also in the financial position to do it. In many states such as Kansas, Iowa, Illinois they paid a premium for that land. When that demographic reaches an age where they can no longer hunt I believe the market will be flooded with recreational land. With the younger generation not all that into hunting I believe recreational land will not be in as high of demand.
I do not feel that way about Tillable ground. I think the demand will always be there for that.
So in closing if I were looking right now I would want a piece the was a 50/50 mix of recreational and Tillable.
I think ones attitude changes a bit on owning versus guided hunts as one gets older. Two artificial hips later, Arthritis in the joints, I definitely look at that scenario different now. I used to own excellent property in a bow only refuge walking distance from the house. But as the quality of deer diminishes and the neighbors relentless encroachments on the borders got worse, my wife and I decided to sell. We got a good price and now enjoy spending that money on guided hunts that provide that quality one is looking for. Good guides (that are good people too) are out their. Best news is I still get to Plot the land I sold for the new owner and keep the John Deere rolling. Wouldn’t have thought that 10 years ago. Things change.
Which will your kids prefer after you die, a nice chunk of land, where they have a zillion memories and is with a lot of money or a wall full of trophies from your guided hunts? No brainer. I’d rather have a long-term (gasp) lease than the guided hunt. Hard to take little grandkids on guided hunts.
Interesting thoughtful comments IMO Fletch.Not sure about your time frame and I'd move it out another decade or two but want to add a few thoughts.Your prognosis more likely in some States/areas than others.Also dependent on species.If deer only land more likely to drop-especially if disease incidents(CWD,EHD) etc were to increase.Land with waterfowl,upland,etc in addition to deer less likely. Perhaps as important as anything will be Govt action-or inaction.Various programs such as CRP,WRP impact this type of land significantly.Tax code changes could also alter the amount of this type of land immensely.Even State taxes(ie,real estate credits/taxes) Bottom line the best safety net for new purchases IMO would be your suggestion to try go 50-50 on tillable/non tillable. By far still the way to go overall though IMO.
Leftee the reason I said 10 to 20 years is there is a lot of state wildlife agencies saying they are expecting a 25 to 35 percent drop in the hunting population in that time frame. Most of those agencies are trying to come up with ways to survive when that happens because license sales will plummet. One option would do what Missouri did and have a state wide tax to help fund.
One of the most informative land surveys that comes out each year is from Iowa State University. While Iowa's land values are more than most states you can get an idea in general how things are going in farm country.
Take a look at page 2 of the attached document. A lot of people forget what happened form 1982 to 1986. Interest rate were though the roof and other factors drove land way down. That kind of correction will happen again just don't know when. Then look at the flip side. In the last 20 years we have been living in what they term the "golden era" with large ROI on land investments. In the last four years we have seen minor corrections. A big correction will happen again or we will continue to see a slow decline like we are now. My hope is a slow correcting rather than a major. Major corrections are the best time to buy if you have the cash. When things could not look worse is the time to buy(1986). Predicting that time is difficult but if everyone is saying its the worse they have ever seen and there is no end in sight buy.
Writer. Good for you but all situations are different. My grandkids are a long way away and what I leave them in the future is unknown yet. Might be a piece of land better then this one or maybe a paid college education. To each his own.
From the landowner side... not all roses.
Don’t get me wrong, my kids love going and skipping rocks on our land and my son has expressed some interest in going Spring Turkey hunting... he’s 7 (guess he’s old enough?). I’ve put countless hours planting trees, food plots, and native grass. Always loved the work. I also am proud of what I have done with One Arrow... Not much compares to the satisfaction of getting a kid on their first turkey or deer.
However, the last 2 years have left a horrible taste in my mouth. Seriously considering leasing it all out or possibly even selling some hunts... not quite there, but close. The One Arrow initiative is really the only thing keeping me from leasing it all out at this point.
Don’t know about the rest of Kansas, but it has gotten crazy around here the last 5-10 years with leasing and outfitters.
Use the money for guided hunts? Maybe, but the older I get the less I really care... outside of killing a net 200” with my bow I’m pretty satisfied. Ha! I am at the point I’d rather chase free range elk or red stag. Greatest hunt of my life was a Red Stag. Man what a rush!
I’m outside all the time and should probably take more time to fish rather than waste it on deer.
With that said, when the weather warms up, so does my outlook.
Love my 85 !! Best thing I ever did.
If you hope it will get cheaper, it will not. My place has doubled in value in 9 years according to recent sales nearby of lesser properties. In 1968, my dad bought over 400 acres for $69,000. Today, 78 acres of that ranch is for sale for $276,000. I will hopefully never sell mine and I plan on being buried there and if I have no heirs, I may donate it to the state for youth/disabled hunters.
We purchased 80 acres in 2008, in 2013 we 1031 exchanged it for another 80. We’ve never regretted it, but we were able to pay cash for it, I believe that make a difference. 35 acres of it is tillable and we cash rent it out. We plan to begin saving to buy more when our house is paid off, we’ve been tripling our house payment in principle each month since getting our mortgage. We plan to buy a combination of recreation/pasture ground next time around and begin running some cows — it’s in my wife’s blood, coming from a ranching family. We absolutely love owning property, but I would never advise anyone to invest without careful financial planning.
Win/Win. Let's hope for no "heirs". Would be a win for society and a win for youth and disabled hunters.
Ray back in the 70's and 80's I can remember some of the pit strip ground going for $80 an acre. If we would have only known.
West, I’ve heard of those prices... makes me sick to think about the missed opportunities, but In my defense I was only 5 at the time:-)
Same thing is going on around the Neosho river.
My brother bought some ground on the Neosho River in the early 90’s for $250 an acre. He sold it several years back for three times that amount... thought he made a great decision (and at the time it was).
Now that marginal farm ground (I still Farm it) is bringing over $5k per acre and most of it is being flooded for duck hunting.
I bought 640 acres in 09, in west central Ks. Paid more than market because of where it was located. That being adjacent to my brothers farm, so he can watch it. I’ve received about 50% of the purchase price in oil pipeline easements, CRP payments, and oil leases. But those are pretty much dried up. Its more of a pheasant hunting property, but I have killed some decent whitetails on it, bow and rifle. And we’ve had good dove hunting and some duck shooting on the pondswe built. I’ve planted wildlife habitat, trees and quite a bit of food plots. My kids will own it some day, and I love having it and working on it.
Being smack dap in the middle of the Country Kansas Land will always be in demand. Your state is very accessible from every corner of the US. Buy land and enjoy it.