With the pending setting of the length of the WI crossbow season there are clearly opinions on all sides of the discussion but in order to understand, you need to first know WHO all the sides are. They are all the hunters trying to kill a buck so that means, Bowhunters, Crossbow hunters, Gun deer hunters and Muzzle loader deer hunters all care and yes, if All are honest, the prime objective to killing a buck (and hopefully a big one). Deer hunting is as much a "Buck-centric" event as it has ever been. For as long as deer seasons have bet set, weapons efficiency and success rates have been the primary metrics used to determine how much time is allowed per weapon and why the archery deer season is longer than the gun deer season but in the end, hunters want equity in their potential success based on the projectile they sling at that buck since those bucks are a limited resource. With 4 years of data gathering for the crossbow deer hunter collected since its inaugural season in 2014 and decades of the same usage and buck kill success rates for bow and gun deer hunters already long known, all members of the deer hunting community are able to see for themselves and understand just how efficient and successful each weapons type has been and this success data is being used to set the duration for the crossbow deer season. The most recent data collected during the 2018 deer seasons shows that the most efficient and successful buck killer per license sold is the crossbow deer hunter with a buck kill success rate of about 30%, The next most successful buck killing weapons type per license sold is the gun deer hunter at about 22% and the archery deer hunter at about 15% success at bringing home a buck. That means the crossbow hunter has nearly double the success killing a buck compared to bowhunters and the Crossbowers success is even higher than the gun deer hunter. Gun deer hunters, certainly care because they go last after the bowhunters and the crossbow hunters have removed many bucks from the landscape. The lonely Muzzle loader hunter is dead last and is made up of guys with a unfilled gun-buck tag after the gun deer season when there are the fewest possible bucks on the landscape. Due to the wisdom of those involved with creating the separate crossbow deer season, we are able to capture and drill down and see not only who but when these bucks are being taken out of play for every weapons type. This separation of seasons was a sticking point with some that wanted the crossbow season rolled into the archery deer season hoping to ride the coat tails of protection of an archery season that has been around since the 1930's but the bowhunting community saw what transpired in other states and did not want to be punished or penalized because of the successes of the crossbow deer hunter (and successful they are) So those that were thinking of the future were smart to do so. Speaking of the future (which comes at us far faster than we ever anticipate and surprises us yearly with next years new weapons release) the rapid advances of the modern crossbow which is now at the doorstep of 500+ feet per second. (Scoryped boasts 480 FPS in 2019). Nobody can argue that the crossbows of 2025 will make today's crossbows look like relics and the crossbows of 2035 will have advanced in power, speed and range to a level nobody thinks possible today. Meanwhile, the bowhunter will always be limited in power and range by his own strength to pull back whatever peak weight he is strong enough to draw with a deer at spitting distance. That physical strength limitation is what keeps bowhunters throttled the lowest buck kill success rate of all weapons. And while we are speaking of the future, additional weapons that will want placement in established seasos already exist but more will follow. Once such weapon is the pneumatic powered, broadhead tipped, arrow slinging Crossman "Airbow". Despite it being an air rifle that allows the user to muzzle load a hunting arrow, the maker is lobbying for its inclusion in archery deer season in every state because they were clever enough to include "bow" in the name and because it propels an arrow. The state's decision makers will be pestered until they are forced to find a home for this and other weapons we haven't even realized yet but since the "Airbow" is here and already knocking on the door, there will be those wanting a faster and easier weapon with far greater range to remove more bucks from the swamps and oak ridges of WI. Because the "Airbow" propels a broadhead tipped arrow and has a stock, trigger, safety and scoped sights and can be shot from a rest and will be easy to use by kids and women the elderly and disabled and increase participation and increase license sales and money the DNR can certainly use, the crossbow community will not doubt trip over themselves to welcome the "Airbow" into their season because these are the exact claims they made as they tried to gain inclusion into the WI archery seer season. But dont bet on crossbowers being so inviting. They will likely object, claiming that it is not fair, too powerful, too easy and a different weapon than what they limit themselves to. They will not want to be punished for the success rate of a clearly superior weapon that would be included in "their" season. Bowhunters will of course call them hypocrites but just think, if the state had made the error of lumping crossbows into the WI archery deer season, the "Airbow" could just as easily be lumped into the "Archery" deer season. That is why the forward thinking folks back in 2014 fought to keep crossbows separate from a human powered bow and arrow season. With that said, we currently have a human powered season in which bowhunters limit themselves in effectiveness by choice in using a weapon that restricts their range and killing potential based on their own human strength that has been documented as having the lowest buck kill success rate of all the weapons types and now thanks to the separate crossbow season we have a stored energy, shoulder discharged and powerful weapon with a demonstrated buck killing success rate double that of bowhunters and the gun hunting community is looking on from the sidelines knowing they are no longer the most lethal buck killers in the woods which was the reason the gun deer season is shortest of all the seasons and last to hit the woods. These are the reasons the Natural Resources Board has tasked the DNR with creating a scope statement and recommendations for a crossbow season duration that is shorter than it was during the data gathering years but still, far longer than the gun deer season. This is a future thinking move on their part with the goal of equity in take of bucks which drives license sales in the cheese state. It also seeks to bring back those folks that are leaving the archery and the gun deer season because the data shows that since the creation of the separate crossbow season, license sale for bowhunters and gun deer hunters have dropped. Even before the data was collected, buck hunters knew there best chance to kill a buck was with a crossbow and the long season during the data gathering years so they stopped buying an archery and/or gun deer license and sales and revenue to the Dept. had declined. The season setting being undertaken by the NRB will result in a crossbow season in WI that is still quite long (certainly longer than the gun deer season despite the crossbow having a buck killing success rate higher than their lead bullet slinging cousins) and with less days than the archery deer season and will seek to establish an equity in the success rates of all the weapons types in WI.
Is it a done deal that the xbow season will be modified? That will appease many people and then maybe people can focus on other topics. My personal choice of the options would be not allowing xbows in the late season. That mirrors what MI does in the UP.
One simple rule change would have a big impact, no scopes allowed on crossbows. Wouldn't affect the manufactures sales of crossbows but would mean the challenge of harvesting a deer would be more in-line with a compound bow with sights. Keep the seasons the same, just don't allow scopes. Same thing for the muzzleloader season.
Simple regulation is that anything that is held to the shoulder is not a bow and the x-bow season be aligned with the muzzle season. This whole progressive deer hunting methods have left the tracks when baiting was first went mainstream, left the door open for more special interest deer killing method.
Do you realize that while we have a bow season that runs 5 months. The traditional gun hunt is 9 days. But do you realize there are 32 other gun hunting days within our season?
So far none fall into the rut other than the traditional 9 days season occasionally.
What are you going to do when the DNR says we aren’t killing enough and they propose more gun hunts??
Don’t think it can happen? It’s already expanded from 9 days to 41 gun hunting days.
Buck quit riding on the coattails of Capt. Why don’t you add some substance here good or bad. At least make an attempt. Every time you come on here I’m reminded of this cartoon.
Wow Drop in all the years on Bowsite I have never seen you run on emotions like you seem to be doing with this topic. Substance - I hunt with 4 able bodied adults that now kill deer every year since crossbows came into play. 2 were strictly gun hunters for most part until crossbows. Why are they now "bow" hunting???? Cause it's like using a gun they say. I don't even take my recurve off the hook anymore cause I get eno ugh venison from them. That weapon does not belong in the archery season except for legit handicapped individuals and people of age.
Pasquinell...... my nephew hunts with a cross gun the last two years and he admits the last two bucks he never would have got if he was using a real bow.
Emotion no, a passion yes. I could care less if I ever killed another deer. I’m spending my time helping my wife and grandkids. I get more of a kick seeing their success than my own. It’s for them I make a stand as they don’t have the knowledge to fight the battle themselves. Quite frankly I don’t want them to have to and shouldn’t have to especially from other hunters. It totally detracts from the purity of the sport.
A good friend of mine (under 65, able bodied, avid gun hunter and rifle shooter, not avid archery hunter) shot a dandy (upper 140s gross) in 2016 with a crossbow. Deer was broadside, ranged it, 45 yard shot, crossbow was rested on rail of ladder stand, perfect double lung. He’s an ethical hunter and wouldn’t take a shot he knew he couldn’t make. He freely admits he would never have even attempted that shot with his vertical bow.
I personally have seen many big bucks,(a least 2 or 3 every year) that would be hanging on the wall if I used a xgun. No doubt in my mind. Never drew back on them with the bow. All part of the challenge for me.
I have nothing left to say about xbows that has not been said, say 1000+ times by most people on the WI board. But, this thread needs some posts to try to catch up to the other 2 active xbow threads. Let's show this thread some love.
Trapper, not to steal your excellent thread, and great post by the way, but they should get rid of ML scopes, unless your 65 and over, why we are at it
Yes, The compound is a more efficient and easier to master version of the same weapon platform (a vertical bow) as a long bow, but as I explained on a previous thread the longbow and compound use extremely similar stance and shooting mechanics that are vastly different than any shoulder mounted weapon. The long bow and modern compound are of the same weapon family and closer to each other in terms of skill to master than the compound is to the crossbow.
“Bottom line is the crossbow is a superior weapon. You can go on and on but you will never change that FACT.”
As is the compound to the recurve/long bow.
Obviously Capt. Reading comprehension is not a highly recognized skill of yours.
My passion is helping my family grow in the outdoors and become successful in their endeavors and to stand for what you believe in even if you stand alone doing so.
You see Capt. I’ve been shooting a stick and string since 1963. I hunted with a bow for 9 years before I ever carried a gun hunting.
I have two targets sitting out and my bow sitting in my living room and fling a few arrows when the weather is decent a coupe times a week.
I fed them before they used a gun in archery Jake. But its okay, you are entitled to feel the way you do. Take care buddy and watch your fingers and don't lose your de-cocker bolt. Walking with loaded weapons can be dangerous too, be safe.
What the heck are you talking about????? First you blame RJN for something he didn't do and now you spew more ignorance in an attempt to be humorous or something with me?
What a weirdo... Your other handicapp has come to the light and its a delusional mind. Get help man, get some help. Take care and happy hunting Jake.
So from the last few comments I'm getting as long as I hold my crossbow side ways like a gangster it would be put in the bow category? Furthermore I would challenge anyone on this site to shoot against me so I can prove it doesn't matter what the weapon is, you pick the archery equipment I don't need sights or scopes long bow compound or crossbow I can be effective at distance with any of those weapons. The point is it doesn't matter the season if you master your weapon in its basic form who cares what dates on the calendar you get to use it.... Be good at your craft because the animals deserve that not this crying from a bunch of grown ass people
DT, my passion is bowhunting. You know, that long skinny thing you have to hold with one hand while you pull it back, aim it and then release the string on an animal you have gotten close to. Sounds like your passion is killing, and teaching your wife, kids and grandkids to kill. Not. necessarily bad but certainly not bowhunting. Your time to argue the merits about a compound bow, long bow or recurve bow is long past as it relates to setting seasons. You are a little late to the party but keep at it if it makes you happy. And, don’t forget those meds.
In a primitive season there should be NO SCOPES! It is the scopes that put the distance in the claims of the manufacturers and perhaps, in the minds of newbies, makes that weapon akin to a gun. It doesn't matter what you or I think, it is what each person who carries that weapon thinks. And NO ONE can claim to know what those thoughts are of those people. The only persons behavior you can control is your own. And it only takes a few to make this dangerous for those afield. You want that person who thinks he can shoot a crossbow 100 yards+ out of the box, you want that person on the same public land as you hunting in early October? And it is only going to get worse in the future without action.
I do not care if it is an airbow, or a crossbow, or a compound bow. Pin sights bring all closer to equal to each other. Not perfect, but closer. Then and only then can you justify leaving the seasons as they are. We need to stop playing the 'who shoots the buck game', and just look at the rapid acceleration of the technology all by itself. That should be enough to shorten the season with scopes intact(and wear orange) or drop the scopes (and wear camo). This is brought on by the manufacturers of crossbows and the crossbow users themselves. We are talking about a jump in technology in the area of crossbows. Statistics are pointing to a problem with crossbows, and it needs to be addressed. Not compounds, nor longbows and recurves.
And I find it funny how some blame some of being 'greedy' when their choice of weapon is shown to be close to more than twice as successful on buck harvest. A good defense is a good offense, huh? Good grief.
Chief- are you in favor of the airgun? If not, why? Your mentality says your in favor of any weapon any time as long as your effective and the animals deserve it. You guys are not bow hunters, if you were you would realize how silly you sound.
GH Its a Barnett Jackal . I assemble them . Tune that noisy string , make sure the trigger is between 3 & 5 lbs . Proper Lubeing is really important .
I bench it at 30 yards with an aimpoint or 4x BDC scope .They shoot tight groups with 125 gr Muzzys .
Most of my customers don't have 12 to 15 hundred for a crossbow . I'm still no fan of the crossbow but I will make sure any of them that I sell will hit what they are aiming at .
Tell yea right now . The guy that buys one at a big box store that needs assemble needs to be carefull .
The animals never deserve it.. Rj idiot, I hunt because I eat them... Air gun crossbow shotgun long bow wrist rocket doesn't matter to me as long as its legal and you are practiced and effective with whatever weapon you choose. Moron
Why do people think that a guy a deer with a crossbow is killing "their" deer. Why would anyone care what weapon was used by a guy 2 counties over killing a deer on his property.
Where are the stats on WHERE these deer are killed.... public or private. If it`s private property this crossbow thing sounds like jealousy.....public land you have a legit bitch.
If a guy wants to kill off all the deer on his property....let him. According to you CWD sky is falling fanatics, he stands less of a chance of having CWD on his property by having reduced herd numbers.....lol
Chief- there always needs to be management and restrictions otherwise the resource gets depleted and everyone loses. There is so much more than just eating venison. Maybe you need to stick to something you may be good at, changing diapers.
Rj don't cry just because your arguments are lame, i am good at changing diapers also probably better at anything you ever thought you were good at and I would put money on that
Cheif- you've already told us your the greatest more than once so you dont have to keep reminding us. You obviously have some self esteem issues so you may want to reach out and get some help for that. While your at it ask for some tips on gaining some common sense.
Same people, same posts. I knew it wasn't time to come back yet. Just wanted to see if it was time to say I told you so on the hound changes. I am exactly right on that one. Money talks on both issues so even the best change in the x bow season wont be much. It is too bad that most on the NRB & DNR are fricken worthless. The hound guys have the majority on the NRB & their words are that they don't give a crap about other hunters or what they want & made it known that if others don't play ball they will take away what ever they want. I know a lot of great hound hunters but their leadership sucks. DNR just wants dead deer & money. Right now they are getting both. Some day it may change but I am old & they have wore me down. Never thought I would quit in disgust but the time is near. Great post trapper BTW.
All we need is splittoe to chime in and really get this thread going.
I agree it’s a superior weapon and closer to a muzzleloader than compound bow. I agree it’s season should be shorter than compound/trad. Maybe do the first 30 days of the season and then start again to coincide with gun and late season. Basically, if you choose to use an xgun you loose the chance to hunt the rut. They are still cool as hell and when that ravin gets a bit cheaper I want one to use during gun season.
Jake, I am no compound guy. I haven't owned one since the early 90's. I shoot longbow and recurve. If they try to shorten the season for stickbows, then I'll let them have it.
But it is the scopes that causes the majority of the problems for the crossbows. No scopes for weapons in the primitive seasons could help with the technology edge, throttling them back to more equal footing with compounds. And it could prevent new techno weapon threats from taking over where the crossbows left off, ala airbow or whatever else. If these types of weapons keep advancing, one will not NEED a long season to kill a deer. We are not there yet, but it is headed in that direction. That is why the crossbows got their own season; to monitor, then adjust. I do not think that we would be having this conversation if they had outlawed scopes on crossbows at the beginning in 2014. It is a more simpler solution than trying to dissect kill ratios, kill rates in specific time slots across a diverse habitat environment that is Wisconsin. And it may be a temporary solution, but it is a start in the right direction.
PS - You think it is ok to allow crossbows to have a trigger, while taking the trigger away from the compound?
Compounds haven't messed with my method of hunting until they cause my season to be shortened. So far so good. Removing a trigger from a crossbow is about the same as removing the trigger from todays compound. Neither will occur, so removing use of triggers is a dead end argument either way.
Scopes do not cure any problem with crossbow speed, manufacturers will keep upping the anti with improvements in crossbow shooting physics. Scopes allow you to USE THE SPEED. Seems like a fine line, but with significant results.
Rifle hunters may soon start to make similar points about the crossbow, and then they may say "But nothing is done about it. NOTHING." Do not mean to use your words, but that is part of what the concern is about the rifle hunters that haven't taken 'you can't beat 'em, join 'em' mentality YET. Biologists should be concerned about bucks being killed before does are bred. CWD is dinging the older age class of bucks in many areas, now more hunting pressure will ding them further? And we will be right back to the days of "I don't see any bucks anymore, the DNR doesn't know what they are doing, etc, etc.". The DNR waited too long to act on crossbows. Why is that? That may be why the DNR was asked at the recent NRB meeting to write a 'scope of the problem statement' vs a written list of 'solutions'. The NRB is making them define the various problems as the DNR sees it; all of the many issues with the crossbow. Then the NRB will probably act.
Jake, I shoot a stick bow so hopefully you can understand my amusement when compound guys and crossbow guys are arguing about whose more like a caveman......:>)
So if they were to completely band crossbows for a year and the regular bow kill went up the 35000 or what ever its is would that mean that the regular bow is to much of a weapon and there time should be reduced . I would almost bet that the total kill would be within 5 % of the previous year , if the herd was pretty constant . i know it wouldn't any difference to my hunting one way or another .
Franklin said: "Why do people think that a guy a deer with a crossbow is killing "their" deer. Why would anyone care what weapon was used by a guy 2 counties over killing a deer on his property. Where are the stats on WHERE these deer are killed.... public or private. If it`s private property this crossbow thing sounds like jealousy.....public land you have a legit bitch."
Then I guess guns should be fair game starting the first day of gun season too if you are on your own land.
Jake, I use to get pretty excited about technologies effect on archery. If you have grey hair and remember how it use to be out there in the woods, a lot of this stuff is pretty hard to swallow. But I also realized that my view of what archery season should be is WAY, WAY different than what the masses attitude is. So be it..... it is what it is...... You have to adapt. Ive got a red squirrrel infestation on the neighbors land next to my house. A stickbow, judo points and red squirrels on the hoof, you cant have any more fun than that..... Before anybody asks, I dont put any of my squirrels in the record book, so dont ask about scores.....
This thread has gained lots of momemtum on the other 2 current xbow threads. Nothing even remotely new has been stated, but the race is getting tighter.
People are NEVER going to get others to change their opinions on this. I am not sure why people try to do that.
With having a business in archery i would like to see them band crossbows for a few years. All the guys that dumped there bows would have to get one again . Then in a couple years put them back and it would go the other way again . By then I should be retired and really not care about it . I would also like to see registration come back that use to bring another 500+ people to my store . get back my corn business I built up to over 500,000 lbs a year , Get back the 5 walleye over 15 inch , use to be around 250 boats at the ramp on opening now usually 30 to 50 .But like crossbows don"t think it going to go away and will have to live with it just like the rest . Oh also would like to see the internet get real expensive its cost me a fortune in sales and profit . Dang now I sound like most of you . Time to go shoot my bow .
On the recording at 3:03-3:07, 'scope statement' by the DNR basically requested by Dir. Prehn(not the optical form of scope); Dir Bruins states to think out of the box, consider rut, consider limiting tech to limit accuracy and length of shot of crossbow"Why not?". Dir. Zimmer states lots of things effect the situation.
It ain't over; the board is realizing it is multi faceted and a passionate topic among deer hunters. Feb NRB meeting should produce more reports; stay tuned.
The suggestion of eliminating scopes on crossbows and allowing pin or peep sights only is the best suggestion so far. I also think that fancy site that has the built in range finder should be banned from all archery.
Get back the 5 walleye over 15 inch , use to be around 250 boats at the ramp on opening now usually 30 to 50
I concur upnorth but I seriously doubt anyone is going to be able to over turn what Judge Crabb blessed us all with. I was one of those radicals that backed up the launches back in the mid 80s and then ran my boat around to make waves. That was on the Three Lakes chain. It is very sad that the Minocqua chain had to go to zero Eyes.
The OP puts forth a lot of predictive speculation. Wish I had a crystal ball.
Much is made about rates. But rate has noting to do with scientific biological management. Harvest is the thing. It is true that every time a deer is harvested there are less deer available for subsequent hunters, and it is actually the hunters after muzzleloader season who have the least opportunity.
The gun rate is as low as it is because of many factors. The gun season is a zoo. Nuff said about that. Many gun hunters are more about the camaraderie than the absolute harvest. Deer camp.
To worry about rates for gun hunters or V bows we need look no farther than historical harvest numbers and rates. The trend. What do we see there? Just because Hbows do well does not CAUSE others to not. In fact many of those ARE the others just doing it different.
The real factors affecting mature buck success is access and age sex management.
Weapon type is not a blip on radar by comparison.
Tell us, were you equally as frustrated about cars coming along when you chose to stay on a horse?
Swivel machine been making those for 20 years . For a short time they made one that shot over 600 fps with a 223 blank . I mounted a scope on one for a guy that used 22 blanks and I think it shot 435 . At 50 yards if you shot more then two arrow at a spot there was going to be some breakage . Was fun to play with but I think the only place back then you could hunt with it was Texas .
That bolt shooter is pretty cool. I'll buy one. No clue what I'll do with it, maybe shoot fish or something. Could even give it a week season, I wouldn't care as long as it doesn't create more days requiring blaze orange
So if they cut back xbow season which I believe would only actually happen to give the gun hunters peace nothing to due with overall kill numbers as some guys have posted that overall kill is less total. Dnr is still going to want those deer killed by other weapons. Maybe we could get a bow season to start early enough to get some velvet on our walls?? Or just another dam week of orange?
That bolt shooting gun is cool, but compound shooters use mechanical releases and they should be banned because I suck at debating and don't have any real argument besides changing the blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah....
I could care less if people want to use a cross bow...gun....or a grenade....on their own property. It has zero effect on my hunting and might actually help as the deer will seek sanctuary on the properties that don`t have the pressure. Fire away.
That would be good as it would appease many people, particularly the gun hunters. The "ask" of the xbow hunters given those 7 options is not really that large IMHO outside of the one that would prevent them from hunting weekends. I doubt that one would be selected. Having their season end after the gun season would closely mirror what happens in the UP.
Jake, I was just going by why xbows are not allowed in late season in the UP. You know I am not opposed to xbows like most others and so far think much has been made of nothing but I do think their advantage is even greater in late season. Vertical bows are far harder to draw in very cold weather with heavy clothes. xbows in blinds are like a perfect match in the late season. The deer yarding in late season with the xbow advantages are the reason xbows are not allowed in the UP in late season.
DT your dillusional ,,, they are not going to open up more gun seasons ..... come on, really,,, plenty of opportunity with the bows, regardless if xbow or compound etc
I wish they would bring back EAB, but I am in the minority with that
There is an option I haven't seen. Let crossbow hunter hunt the entire archery season. But make their buck tag only good from a certain date through a certain date. Example, tag is good from October 20th-gun season. I don't know about the exact dates, but this seems as good as any of the proposed options.
What I don't get is why this comes as such a shock to some. It is written in the original crossbow law from 2014 that things would be reviewed. Either people are very uninformed or they just see what they want to.
Crossbow and vertical bow are separate license. You cant buy both. How could you register a deer as a vertical kill if you show you bought a crossbow license? Or dont they watch or care?
You can have both and have both weapons with you. I wanted to fill my turkey tag with a crossbow .But was also hunting deer at the same time and didn't want to have to try to explain the crossbow to a warden if only having a bow tag its a extra 3 dollars . Even with the crossbow there I filled my turkey ,my archery and my gun with my regular bow .
"So now if something gets done be it shorter season or anything and the crossbowers start registering their deer as vertical and vertical buck kills go above crossbow kills will the vertical shooters have to give up ANYTHING?"
That's not really an answer. Why does this bother you so much when it has always been a possibility? Maybe you should be mad at your crossbow org. that agreed to the law as it is worded. wait that won't help as crossbowers let that org die as soon as they got what they wanted. Maybe be mad at the manufacturers and NRA that were making the big push for crossbows. Nope they aren't going to be any help, they took the money and ran. Maybe take responsibility and be disappointed in yourselves. You ignored or chose not to read all of the bill as it was written. But no, lets blame those greedy vertical bowhunters.
Jake I already know your answer. But, but, compounds are easier than stick bows. Yes but vertical bows including compounds have never had success rates higher than guns.
If the kills were to really diminish, and they won't, then adding t-zone (antlerless) hunts like was done in the early 2000s would definitely be an option for the DNR. DT is right that the opportunities for gun hunters over the years has really grown and all were for herd control. His thinking is not delusional at all. What's being talked about here with the xbow season change is to save a few thousand bucks for others. That would not warrant an extra gun season but Lord only knows what goes through the minds of our DNR.
Jake, the Legislature pissed off a whole lot of people, people who voted down xbows multiple times in spring hearings, to give xbow hunters the inclusion they currently have. I don't think the system is rigged. Money won.
What is happening now is that they are trying to appease those people who they really pissed off the 1st time. I doubt the option chosen to shorten the xbow season will impact the xbow hunters much. As Capt Mike pointed out multiple times, it is not always about the numbers and in this case, it is about perception. I have come to agree with that because the numbers can be argued.
The majority doesn't scout or set up cams to see a doe. They want to see mature bucks and manage for them. Most have been educated in the recent years how to grow and hold big bucks. Now the #s have proved to show xguns success rate is double the % over compounds and have even exceeded guns for bucks harvested. It's simple and very obvious that a change needs to be made. My option would be xguns are allowed anytime during and after gun season say Nov 18-Jan. 7. This would be a compromise that all should be happy with. :)
Jake it is written into the original crossbow law that things would be REVIEWED!!!!!! That is the law you crossbow guys wanted. Now you are bitching about it????
Jake, why don’t you join the WBH and find out for yourself if they instruct their membership to break the law? I think we are seeing you melt down in real time as your thoughts and ideas continue to drift further and further from reality.
I'm with drop tines thinking that more gun seasons are going to be needed to fill short harvests for dnr to be happy. Longer bow season would be great but is doubtful, more orange days are likely. Maybe 3 buck tags per hunter (bow, X, and gun) would help, they're separate seasons after all.
Jake, it's no secret that I don't have a whole lot of love for the WBH. I was a member for quite a while and was just unimpressed. There is so much more they could do, but they seem happy to sit around and talk about the past. That said. Even if this conspiracy were true, I doubt they have the numbers to pull it off. They barely have enough active members to have a convention. Sorry if I pissed off any WBH members. I am defending you, in a backhanded compliment sort of way.
Let’s just make it simple, crossbow or vertical separate licenses, separate seasons. Pick a weapon and go with it. I would bet good money, that a great percentage of guys that use a crossbow have no intention of ever going back to their vert bow.
So everyone is all excited that the new DNR is going to use science to manage deer and come up with solutions for better management but they also hate crossbow inclusion. Bucks are the main thing moving CWD around the state, it’s not hunters, it’s not birds, it’s bucks that everyone here wants to protect and have more of. I want more bucks and bigger bucks too but you guys who don’t want full inclusion are going to kill it for everyone. Science says kill all the bucks you can to slow CWD spread. If archery/crossbow buck kill and overall kill go down, it’s only a matter of time before we have a gun season that runs through November based on science. Careful what you wish for.
I'd rather have a few guys on the neighbors land or public land for that matter choose to use crossbows rather than extra days that I'm required to wear orange while bowhunting because another gun season is going on, but that's just me. Obviously the greedy high-tech compound using buck hoarders disagree and would rather have more gun seasons than we have now, how ignorant.
I also heard stories of guys registering compound kills as crossbow kills, and what's worse is I even heard of guys registering multiple crossbow kills when they hadn't even killed anything, and didn't even own a crossbow! Here I thought it was all made-up wannabe hard-asses talking tough, but after reading some of the jealous hatred some hunters that post here have for other hunters that choose to use a different weapon I'm starting to think those stories could have been true. How pathetic can people be.
More hunters/landowners are realizing the dnr always want more deer killed so they manage how they want to. You could have 50 extra gun hunting days and very few hunters hunt in our area. Heck most gun only guys hunt opening weekend and maybe Thanksgiving morning and that's it. Like I said and Camp, allow xguns starting the first day of gun season until Jan. That is plenty of time for them. I would even throw in the 2 day youth hunt for xguns also. That would be approximately 45 days for the xgunners.
Back to the back-tags, a bright reflective color or better yet let the seasons go back pre1980 and just go hunting, that would solve a lot of issues, but that would be too easy to do.
jake,,,, I hate to tell you what I saw tonight and it was colder than you know what,,, I thought my head was going to explode but of course I was not hunting out of a heated box blind , maybe I should ha ha
since I use to score, I got a text, tonite, can we bring a deer over to score, we shot last Thursday, by my dads farm, outside of a state park in Washington county, of course it was shot with an xbow, because late season its cold out,,, the shooter was 40 years old.....
I said congrats on the nice buck, but get it scored by WBBC,,,,, 40 years old with a xbow, what a joke
jake I am not against crossbows at all, I just have a problem with healthy young men, using them,,, that's all,,,, maybe its just me,,, but that is a fact,,,, I still think we should have a breakfast,,,,,
after this Wed will be the last day I get to hunt,,,, than I have another surgery on Thursday with another 4 day of recovery,,, after that I will pm you and we will have a breakfast,,, my treat,,,,,,,
Here is another way to think of 'no scopes' for any 'primitive' weapons. If the airbow comes along, or the heat seeking moisture missile, or a grenade launcher, whatever, same deal - EASY - NO SCOPES. Keep this crap under 50 yards, or we'll all end up wearing orange, or pink, God awful pink.
No scopes on vertical bows. All weapons that are allowed into primitive seasons should not be allowed to use optical scopes. This line in the sand can separate weapons of today, and weapons of tomorrow, into a season which requires blaze orange attire if scope use is retained. So if ALL gun hunters decide they want a crossbow, they can have one, they just cannot hunt during leaf up, if scope use is retained. If scope use is rescinded, then they can hunt the primitive seasons. This would cut down,(not entirely eliminate) the technological advantage of crossbows with scopes over other "primitive" weapons. It should shut down the 'your next rifle' issue, and make the woods safer for everyone before leaf drop. It would make it easier to handle new technologies as they are pushed for inclusion. Those days WILL COME! Again, you can legislate equipment, but you cannot legislate ethical use of high tech weaponry. Scopes give those weapons too large of an edge. And it will only get worse as they advance. Note that scopes could also be allowed during any gun season, because blaze orange is required.
Just so we are straight on this - my thoughts are my own, and not necessarily those of any organization that I may be a director of, in or out of state. I am who I say I am, no alias, and would welcome any of you in camp someday. (But you will have to fess up with your actual identity. Just not right to hide in the dark corners of the internet, and strike out at people. Pet Peeve)
This was emailed to Eric Lobner, Director of Wildlife Management, Sanjay Olson, Deputy Division Adminstrator and Preston Cole, DNR secretary. Time to get on my soap box! I am writing this letter to express my concern over the proposed changes to the 2019 Wisconsin crossbow season. First and foremost I am a bowhunter, I do not differentiate myself because of the choice of weapon I use. I.E vertical vs crossbow. With that being said I feel there is a lot of misinformation and opinions being spread throughout Wisconsin by special interest groups such as the Wisconsin Bowhunters Association. And I can provide proof. We can look no further then Mike Brust who publicly made this statement last year. And I quote, “The pressure to further restrict the crossbow season during the peak of the rut has been building, due not only to the general public’s recognition that modern crossbows are a much different and superior weapon to archery gear, but also due to the growing frustration among gun hunters that all those flocking to crossbows to increase their odds of shooting a buck in the rut are having a very negative impact on the gun season. Folks are now beginning to understand that the “minor and inconsequential” change of adding a 4-month crossbow season has affected much of the important culture and traditions of deer hunting in Wisconsin, almost overnight. Something has to happen, because the latest crossbows rival many shotguns with slugs both in accuracy and range, and are getting better every year. Some are calling them “rut guns”. Some ask “why bother to gun-hunt when you can hunt all fall with a weapon similar in performance to guns?” Others are concerned that allowing that type of weapon when bucks are most vulnerable will eventually diminish Wisconsin's reputation as a national leader in record-book bucks. Still others are concerned about the net loss of deer hunters that are leaving instead of having to change or compete with crossbows. Amazingly, in terms of buck harvest success, Wisconsin’s archery and firearms seasons have become secondary to a weapon that has no history or tradition here.” Anyone can ascertain after reading his statement that he carries a very biased opinion and is agenda driven and does not have everyone’s best interests at heart. I will also note this man was also present at your January 23, 2019 board meeting. Along with many other opponents to the crossbow such as Dave Peterson. I also have knowledge that Ron Kulas has been working behind the scenes and speaking to a board member to push an anti-crossbow agenda to the DNR. Isn’t this the same man that was issued a citation for illegal baiting and the killing of a deer over bait? Seems quite hypicrital to me. Moving on, “Lobner repeatedly emphasized the goal of the proposed season change was to reduce the number of bucks killed with a crossbow and allow those kills to go to hunters who used other weapons. Let me ask you Mr. Lobner is this statement accurate? Exactly how are you allowing these kills to go to hunters using other weapons? Are you commanding the deer to appear over 100lbs of corn that some hunter dropped the Sunday before opening day of the 9 day gun deer season still smelling like a beer can at the opening of legal shooting hours? Apparently in your logic the choice of weapon determines the cunning of the animal. Laughable at best. “I know anecdotally a lot of gun hunters are getting frustrated,” said Dr. Fredrick Prehn, the board’s vice-chair. “They think the bigger bucks are getting killed during the rut, which I believe is true.” Is this statement accurate? Then can you explain to me how this 8 year old whitetail survived on country land for as long as he did with bowhunters, crossbow hunters and one of the largest deer crews who do drives survived as long as it did? https://www.facebook.com/photo.php… It’s now proudly on my wall and no big bad boogie man crossbow hunter killed him. And no gun hunters are not frustrated, non-hunters are frustrated who put the minimum amount of time in and expect the maximum amount of reward. Let’s talk about the accuracy and lethality of the vertical bows and crossbows. Would you agree or disagree it's in the hunters best interest to make the most ethical shot possible? So with that being said Mr. Preston spoke on the accuracy and lethality of the crossbow as apparently being a bad thing. So I pose this question, if accuracy breeds success today in 2019 we have vertical bows with degrees of let off never before seen in the archery industry. Vertical bows capable of over 300 fps with 95% let off! I want you all to go to youtube and look at archers and hunters alike demonstrating that these vertical bows are indeed capable of accurate 100 yard shots. Again your bias is very amusing. Here are the links provided as proof. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czR-kjqKD7M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ld0kOyzu2PQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyk8XXAQU0E Do you care to chime in on that? I really don’t think Mr. Preston should have an opinion atm because obviously it’s not an informed opinion. What else do I want to talk about? Let’s talk about licensed hunters and success rates. Again I feel the information you are providing to the public is skewed and you do not have our best interests in mind. So let’s start off a year before the crossbow was legalized in Wisconsin shall we! In 2013 {a very cold and miserable season) Wisconsin had a total of 634,555 licensed gun hunters with an overall antlered harvest of 102,221. A success rate of 16%. The same year Wisconsin had a total of 266,380 licensed bowhunters with an overall antlered harvest of 41,517. A success rate of 15.5%. Moving on to 2014! Wisconsin had a total of 609.816 licensed gun hunters (a 3.9% decline from the previous year) with an overall antlered harvest of 97,196. A success rate of 15.9%. Wisconsin had a total of 232,629 licensed bowhunters (a 12.67% decline from the previous year) with an overall antlered harvest of 30,433. A success rate of 11.42%. Wisconsin had a total of 113,293 licensed cross bowhunters with an overall antlered harvest of 15,768. A success rate of 13.9%. In 2015 Wisconsin had a total of 613,165 licensed gun hunters (a 0.54% increase from the previous year) with an overall antlered harvest of 99,757. A success rate of 16.2%. Wisconsin had a total of 227,700 licensed bowhunters (a 2.21% decrease from the previous year) with an overall antlered harvest of 31,229. A success rate of 13.7% Wisconsin had a total of 131,623 licensed cross bowhunters ( a 16.1% increase from the previous year ) with an overall anterled harvest of 20,594. A success rate of 15.6%. In 2016 Wisconsin had a total of 598,687 licensed gun hunters ( a 2.3% decline from the previous year ) with an overall antlered harvest of 105,186. A success rate of 17.4%. (Also to note this was the highest percentage of anterled kills in years with the lowest amount of participation and lowest overall kill in 30 years!) (For the sake of arguing because I will combine the crossbow and upgrade for overall success from 2016-2018) Wisconsin had a total of 138,581 licensed bowhunters (a STAGGERING 38% decline from the previous year) with an overall antlered harvest of 22,050. A success rate of 15.9% Wisconsin had a total of 97,974 licensed cross bowhunters to include upgrades (a 25% decline from the previous year) with an overall antlered harvest of 21,469. A success rate of 21.9% In 2017 Wisconsin had a total of 536,557 licensed gun hunters (a 10% decline from the previous year) with an overall antered harvest of 95,093. A success rate of 17.7% Wisconsin had a total of 125,151 licensed bowhunters (a 9.6% decline from the previous year) with an overall antered harvest of 19,645. A success rate of 15.8% Wisconsin had a total of 110,655 licensed cross bowhunters to include upgrades (a 12% increase from the previous year) with an overall antlered harvest of 28,673. A success rate of 25.9%. From 2013 to 2017 licensed gun hunters went from 634,555 to 536,557 a 15% decline in hunters with only a 1.8% difference in success rate. From 2013 to 2017 licensed bow hunters went from 266,380 to 125.151 a 53% decline in hunters with only a 4.48% difference in success rate. From 2014 to 2017 licensed cross bowhunters went from 113,293 to 110,655 a 2.38% decline in hunters with only a 12% difference in success rate. The numbers speak for themselves. In your logic you want more deer for less people! Exactly where did 53% of these people go from 2013 to present day? Did they stop hunting? Did they migrate to the crossbow? Look in your own reports as I did and one can ascertain that hunting has a very serious issue. Bringing new young people into our lifestyle. I’m sorry but I will not accept the actions of a few people in the Wisconsin Bowhunters Association who think the needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many. This afterall is the same group in the early 1970’s who fought against the use of the treestand. As they viewed it as an unfair advantage during twilight hours. We need to embrace the changing of the times as they and you need to accept it for what it is. It is important to note that your very own information is skewed in such a way to mislead the general public on this issue. I found discrepancies between two of the DNR’s reports from 2016 until present day. I will provide the links. https://dnr.wi.gov/topic/hunt/documents/DeerSales.pdf https://dnr.wi.gov/topic/Hunt/documents/WeaponUseReport.pdf It’s written in such a way that it misleads. My example is hunters with authority. In the hunters in weapon usage report it states that only 67,960 hunters were authorized to use a crossbow in 2017. But when you look in the deersales pdf you will clearly see that 82,861 hunters purchased a crossbow license in 2017 and by definition were authorized to harvest a deer via crossbow. This does not include upgrades. If you include upgrades, antlered deer harvested you will find that the success rate is lower then presented. In closing there are so many variables that dictate the outcome of a successful season, much of the information can be found on the DNR’s website itself. It’s asking the right questions. I will leave a set of questions that I wish that you reply back to. Would you agree or disagree that the Wisconsin Bowhunters Association is a special interest group? Would you agree or disagree that major Archery equipment manufacturers such as Hoyt, Matthews, PSE etc have a vested interest in limiting the crossbow season in Wisconsin to recoup lost profits over the past few years? Do you agree or disagree that members of your board are being coerced by major Archery equipment manufacturers such as Hoyt, Matthews or PSE and or the Wisconsin Bowhunters Association? Will you concede to the fact that the evidence provided shows a decline in vertical bow usage and an increase in usage of the crossbow and its success rate? Do you expect hunters in Wisconsin who have spent anywhere from $200.00 to $2000.00 on a crossbow to turn around and purchase a vertical bow again? Many people hunt to put extra meat in the freezer to lower bills and not increase them. Do you agree or disagree that this issue needs to be put on a statewide spring referendum and not let your board be the deciding factor? With new mentorship laws and limiting the season, how can you expect 8 and 9 year olds with limited time to grow the sport if your going to limit it for them? How many 8 year old do you know who can draw the limited draw weight for hunting?
Interesting rant on many fronts. Not time to address them all, as no one would read it. But I will address one. How about that the vertical bow mfgr's you mention are designated by you as basically evil for wanting to stay in business, even accusing them as coercing the NRB board(proof?), yet nothing is mentioned about crossbow manufacturers who sold the state on inclusion, then appear to have dropped support for their ally, the Wisconsin Crossbow Federation once sales flattened out. Funny, no negative connotation for them? They stirred the pot for profits, left a mess of our primitive hunting seasons, and moved on to other states to conquer. Never occurred to you that what they promised with inclusion does not look anything like what was delivered, you just point to the mess, complain about various statistics and proclaim the WBH or the NRB or the DNR as the devil and/or co-conspirators. Good grief. So much of what I read in your attack of the very people who you address the letter to reminds me of an old saying, "The best defense is an offense".
I hope that the NRB board looks at this from many angles, challenges the DNR on statistics, weighs the change in technology of all 'primitive' weapons, looks at the shifts of hunters from one category to another, considers the safety factors of such a move, consider the past, but also the future, and last, but not least, look at the effect of all of this on the wildlife resource within all areas of our state. And if history holds any clues, realize that the spring hearings is not the all to end all on public opinion. I hope the NRB can adjust things as fair as possible to ALL parties involved. That is part of their job description and what was agreed upon at the beginning in 2014.
Lost me after a few paragraphs. Long rambling letters tend to do that. However, I did read far enough to know and agree that everything Mike Brust said is accurate. Very difficult to refute facts to level-headed people. Actually, with all the rambling in that letter, I’d say there is a good chance that Jake or DT wrote it.
I think the kill ratio is higher for x-guns if you take out the CP licence Xgun license that you have to keep. I tell them to take it out of mine each year as I want no association. Unless they can determine how many holders of the CP license actually use there Xgun license.
At a recent meeting of a small bow club that I belong to, I asked how many in the group had patrons licenses - Answer = 6. Then I asked how many own and hunted with a crossbow - Answer was 1. This from a group of about 1/3 under 40; 2/3 over 40. I would not doubt that is a common ratio, but try that informal poll on your own club.
Many scoped crossbow hunters will not admit it, they are yet to come out of the closet. They pretend they are bow and arrow hunters. In time they will come clean.
northbound, I believe it is because they get both an archery and xbow license and that can skew stats because people are typically using one or the other.
I think it's kind of dumb that they ask if you want Trapping, Goose, etc on your Patrons license but not x-gun. That is just included, no questions. Even when you request it off there.
"Many scoped crossbow hunters will not admit it, they are yet to come out of the closet. They pretend they are bow and arrow hunters. In time they will come clean."
No matter how many times I read this, and I read it a lot since it gets posted on this forum word for word weekly if not daily, it cracks me up every time. As if there are crossbow users out there that are embarrassed to be using a crossbow, how ridiculous. Much like how ridiculous it is that a handful of folks here find pulling back a high-tech compound with 80% let-off a tremendously difficult art to master, not to mention pulling it back with a deer within range some that struggle apparently find bordering impossible. Good thing these crazy notions are mainly isolated to bowsite, as almost all hunters I meet/know/do business with are a little more grounded in reality, and not quite so curmudgeonly and stuck in the 50's while hating everyone else that embraces technology and moves on with life. Life is too short to spend day after day being a hater, so turn that frown upside down, quit the scowling, pick up one of those super cool crossbows, and live a little!!!
Traditional Archery: September 1 - 1st Sunday in January Note: If you want a chance at a velvet buck in WI you have to take up trad bow hunting.
Archery Season: Saturday Closest to Sept 15 - 1st Sunday in January Note: Current archery season structure with no change.
Crossbow Season: October 1 - October 31, Reopen During the 9-day gun season - End of December 4-day antlerless hunt Note: Includes some, but not all, of the rut - leading to a reduction of bucks harvested. Excludes late season.
*Maintain doe-only during gun seasons designated as such. *Crossbow structure to follow archery structure for those over 65 years of age or disabled.
even IF bow manufacturers were coercing with the NRB, big deal. Crossbow manufacturers were coercing with legislators prior to the crossbow bill in 2014. But I'm sure that's different.
Crossbow Season: October 1 - October 31, Reopen During the 9-day gun season - End of December 4-day antlerless hunt Note: Includes some, but not all, of the rut - leading to a reduction of bucks harvested. Excludes late season.
How about Oct 19 - First day of gun season....(a month) Crossbow season open to everyone...Only a month.
Rutnstrut - "Crossbow manufacturers were coercing with legislators prior to the crossbow bill in 2014. But I'm sure that's different."
I wish I had a dollar for every time I heard that comment. Although I have asked before, nobody has of yet to provide evidence of that. Can You??????????????????
Jake aren't you disabled?? You wouldn't have to live without your late season. You were able to hunt with a crossbow before the inclusion. That being said, I don't think anybody on this site was against disabled and over 65 being able to use a crossbow in the first place.
Jake- if your disabled or 65+ you should be able to use a xgun all season. It's the xgun season for all needs to be reduced to start the 1st day of gun season and run until the first Sun in Jan. That will allow kids/gun hunters to keep hunting through late season with a superior weapon.
Drop Tine- no the kids can archery hunt the whole season. If they are unable to pull 30lbs, they can hunt with a xgun during gun through late season. Most kids are not mature enough to hunt until age 12 so few yrs tagging along is good.
That 65 or older idea is a bunch of b.s. we finally get rid of minimum age and now we wanna bring back a max? Sorry but I don't like anything being based on one's age. People vary to much. Personal pet peeve I guess.
Now that guy's have had a taste of xbow. If it gets shortened I see a market coming for the former doctors that used to 'prescribe' medical marijuana before their states went rec legal.. soon we'll see billboards to get a xbow permit from doctor green.
I still don't care either way, have yet to see a 'competitor' using a xbow on public lands near me this year. And I would rather have xbow guys killing deer than more orange days but as long as no one takes away my days I don't really care
North, if you get hunting days taken from your archery season, it will be due to the crossbow. Despite Jake and DT’s maniacal ranting, the issue at hand is the higher success rate for bucks that the past four crossbow seasons have proved.
Capt, I thought the same at first but all the total harvest numbers is what concerns me. Dnr (maybe pushed by insurance companies?) want deer dead, if harvest falls, they're gonna make me wear orange more often. Id love to think it'll mean a velvet season (atlatl maybe?) but it's doubtful. It's already happened with longer gun seasons. Yes if I had a bunch of xbow guys suddenly showing up in areas I hunt then I'd prob have a different opinion. I just don't see them. Do see guys who have converted but they don't seem to kill any more deer than before. Your area may be drastically different
At this point in time, "IF" the crossbow season were to be shortened, it would take legislative action to reinstate the 65 age or over (senior) and the disabled permit for the full length of the archery season. What most anti crossbow advocates forget or fail to realize is the discriminating factor of how much money it may cost a individual to prove their disabilities to obtain as disability permit. You need a doctors approval after specified tests to qualify. Anybody that claims their doctor just signed off with out the test would be in violation of the law
But yet the kill numbers on bucks is still lower than the 44k, 45k, and 41k in 2011 - 2013 that bowhunters took before the inception of crossbows. No concern then.
All this brings the possible expansion of the gun season to 16 days. Kill numbers are declining even though the deer population remains fairly consistent at 1.2M - 1.4M deer. Those numbers still need to be managed some how. Enter more gun hunts.
Oldhunter brings up a good point. Crossbow advocates sold out the over 65 and disabled crowd with their effort to get a season. Now those people will be bound to whatever season might be set, losing the ability they once had to hunt the full length of the archery season. Be careful what you wish for...
It has been said, by the DNR, by the NRB, etc, that whatever happens, it will not affect those with a disability or 65 and over, according to all that I read......
Amazing how simple it use to be. Gun season, and bow season....... Where were all the drama queens back then like we have now???? Maybe their werent any.......
"The issue at hand is the higher success rate for bucks that the past four crossbow seasons". "Higher success rate". "Higher success rate". "Higher success rate". "Higher success rate". "Higher success rate". "Higher success rate". "Higher success rate". "Higher success rate". Its a broken record, My God give it up. The higher success rate doesn't mean diddly squat. Personnel from the DNR have publicly stated that the overall "harvest" rate has not had a negative affect on the deer herd, and there is no biological reason to make any changes to the crossbow season. It all comes down to certain people and groups, using twisted information, to push their agendas.
Pasq- the xgunners are like skeeters, the more you swat at them the more they come back. They have no common sense to go back to xgun nation where they belong, and stay there.
Oldhunter, do not be as uninformed as Jake. Population numbers are only one factor that come into play when DNR or legislators make rules and laws. The DNR is charged with managing all the states resources, which includes deer, for all the people, not just for hunters and not just for numbers. Apparently it has not been said enough times as you still do not seem to understand? User perception, as well as non-user perception, are factors that matter as much or even more than raw numbers. Laws are made by legislators and the DNR is headed by a governor appointed Secretary. This brings politics into the mix. I hope this helps you understand that "success rate" is much more important as a perception by the public, by bowhunters or by gun hunters. This is above Jakes understanding.
Options 3, 5, 6 and 7 are ok but, IMO, need to be stricter (just close the crossbow season from Nov 1 - Friday before Gun Season). After a 4-5 year trial period with the new crossbow season the harvest numbers could be evaluated and the season could either be further shortened or lengthened.
Additionally, I would also like to see zero magnification scopes or peep-sites only on crossbows.
I was focusing hard on the numbers and concluded the numbers themselves did not warrant any changes. After all, the overall kills are actually down and we're talking about a few thousand bucks with a herd probably from 1.2m-1.5m.
But, I came to accept the argument Mike has made about perception. I think that is where we are now. xbows were given their own long season against the majority of the voters wishes. This was purely political with monetary ramifications at the highest levels. Any changes, even minor ones to the xbow season, will appease the bowhunters and gunhunters that voted against xbows. That would be a win, maybe just a short time one, for the DNR and Legislature.
I still feel that whatever option is chosen will not impact the xbow hunters much over what will still be a very long season for them. I do share the same concern that many others do that if the DNR determines more deer need to be killed, more special gun seasons will be used to accomplish that.
Jake, are you truly THAT dense? This entire topic and associated conversations are a result of a new crossbow season having been implemented. Now the department is considering setting a season, after getting four years of data and I am sure, much public input. That you continue to push an unrelated issue only shows how poorly you grasp the issue at hand and what a poorly veiled attempt you have put up to defend something you do not agree with nor have any basis for. You and DT can commiserate between yourselves but you will not find much love here. Sorry to burst your imaginary bubble. Maybe you can get a few more hugs over on Crossbow nation?
CaptMike - apparently yours and the DNR's perception are two different things. The DNR's perception is that it is more of an attitude adjustment to accept change then a biological issue. Yours and the rest of the oppositions is "It is my Deer". Yes, I totally understand the issues.
this thread reminds me of CNN or MSNBC,,, every day, they talk trump and Russia and you guys talk xbows,,,,,, you guys are more active than cross bow nation forum,,, ha ha
Jake the lobotomy originated in the 1930s, when doctors realized that by severing fiber tracts connected to the frontal lobe, they could help patients overcome certain psychiatric problems, such as intractable depression, simpletonism, and cross gun love affair disorder. Good luck finding Doctor Fixmybrain and let us know how you do. Stay in touch once in a while .... not!
yeah, i know you are but whut am I? i will go number 2 in my hand and throw it at every crossgunner i see. c-c-ccross- g-g-gun-gunners$^##*(*%%$%^ THere is only 3 ways, my way or the highway and crossgunners can go the highway but not my way so the point is there is no way on the highway for crossgunners or now i dont know but........CCCCRRROOOOSSSSGUUUUNNNWERSSSS#$%%^^%^#$$^%^%#
CaptMike - I can assure you that I do not lack comprehension. Doesn't take much to see through you, Kaz, Brust, Kulas, and the rest of your small army of followers. Dilly Dilly.
Jakey boy, you bring up my name often enough that I think you care. Do you call out my name at night when you wake up in a cold sweat? Is your wife sick of hearing you grumble about me? I think I’ve got you!! Lol! Dilly, dilly.
Autumn, I participate here when I am bored. Those couple who now argue with me have proved their lack of intellect, insight and ability to reason. They are nothing more than poor gun hunters, looking for an easy way into the archery season.
I quit looking at xbow threads at some point before they hit 100 posts. But noticed that there are 3 of them in the first 3 discussions right now that total almost 1000 posts. Unbelievable is about all I can say. How many times and how many ways can the same thing be said over and over?
I just wanted an answer to an honest question that has been dodged worse than the plague. I asked it may times and only got called names by the childish minions here.
This year crossbow hunters killed 38,000 bucks.
In the years right before crossbows 2011 - 2013 bow hunters killed 44,000, 45,000, and 41,000 bucks.
Why was there no concern then for the male population of deer?
DT, you continue to exhibit you are not too bright. If you are really looking to have a discussion about your subject, start a thread. People who are interested in talking to you about that different subject will answer you. You’re posing an unrelated question on a crossbow thread, trying to create a diversion to the issue at hand, which is crossbows and getting a season set for crossbows.
M.R. James new Dwight. The WBH had him speak at their convention some time ago. When Dwight could not use his arm to pull his bow back he used his mouth / teeth to hold the string.
Well I sure as hell know who Dwight was. He was an awesome guy, and a great bowhunting legend. I remember the story when he blew his shoulder out. He could have taken the easy way out, but chose to shoot a bow, drawing with his teeth. That is a BOWHUNTER. RIP
Remember, most here are really closet scoped crossbow users, enablers or enthusiasts. There is little support to alter the scoped crossbow seasons while leaving other seasons intact. For now, the decreased interest in hunting, predator protection, and controlling antlerless tags will keep whitetail populations near objectives. Black bear have seen point creep over the last 35 years, in part due to the efficiency of compound bows, scoped crossbows, hunting technology (cameras and trackers), and other influencers. The total effect of longer distance shooting over bear bait at fading light with light gathering and magnifying scoped crossbows has not yet been fully realized.
Notice the lack of participation on Wisconsin and Michigan scoped crossbow threads. Most here use scoped crossbows as their primary archery weapon for bucks and bears. Compound bows are secondary archery weapons in states where scoped crossbows are legal for all hunters. Very few new hunters ever hunt with a compound bow these days. Real bowhunting is in a steady decline, not many bowhunters born these days.
Missery, the lack of participation on crossbow threads is because this topic has been beaten to death. All the regular posters have stated their opinions and are tired of the subject. This site is primarily frequented by vertical bow users who are tired of trying to explain the difference and tired of folks like you who continue to say the exact same thing over and over and over and over and over and.................
2-How much cash went into representatives pockets to vote the way they did?
Great question and I have asked it often. I've never seen an explanation why every voter voted against xbows and then 3 months later, every voter changed their votes. I'm not sure we'll ever know the truth but that is already water under the bridge and a done deal.
I would think that yes shortening crossbow season is in the works as long as the DNR isn't concerned about a loss in revenue or hunters dropping out if it's shortened. My understanding is that crossbow hunting during the current crossbow season is extremely popular and my own observations of how much busier public lands seem to be backs that up. I've never seen so many vehicles at public land parking lots as I have the last couple of years with this year appearing to be even more so. It's great to see so many people taking part in deer hunting and enjoying the beautiful outdoors and the thrill of the hunt. That said, I have yet to hear of anyone running out of bucks because they're all being killed by crossbows, besides, the experts tell us that most areas in Wisconsin have too many deer so shortening any deer season does not make sense.
I shoot a long bow and a compound,,,, the reason it will not change in Wisconsin, is because there are a lot of deer to shoot, and most hunters are big buck nuts
In my cwd land area, they should be giving me more buck tags, not doe tags, but qdm guys would go nuts
My observations tell me if your a vertical bow hunter you might already be in the minority, and if not you will be soon.... I hunt public land and I see more crossbow hunters by far than vertical bow hunters. Its a done deal regardless of how much anyone runs around hollering and stomping their feet. Its a new era of technology and time will tell how much the resource can take before it plummets. Same with fishing.
Every morning I check Wisconsin Forum. This morning I am AGAIN reminded that this forum loves a good pissing match. This is prime time to be in the woods. Yet, we love to stir the fire. Go sit in a tree and enjoy.
There are very few bow and arrow hunters left, leave the seasons to the scoped crossbow. Getting a big deer during archery season is no longer an accomplishment, it is very easy with weapons designed for those with health concerns. The law of diminished trophies.
Man I don't understand why you keep on trying to stir crap up,then when your called out you get all defensive, get your feelings hurt... life is simple,so is using common sense,that is if you have any... let people alone, quit badgering how others hunt or what weapon they use. Omg it's got to were stupidly has taken over for some... you know there is a saying.. Its best to remain silent and be thought of a fool, than to open your mouth and leave no doubt.. another old saying is mind your own business, because when you minding your own business your to busy to worry about others.. Let it be,enough is enough, people don't like to be advised or told how to hunt,what weapon to use, seriously common sense will take you a long way if you use it right... and I don't know about up here but trust me there is still plenty of bow hunters, in fact besides me using a crossbow I don't know nobody else that uses a crossbow, all my friends use bows.... plenty of deer out there.. just hunt,be happy, get along,share stories, but quit pissing people off.. people wonder why people get pissed its because most hunters with common sense have heard enough of this dumb crap.. get off it or start your own club.. go get a hug or something,it will be ok..
Well, here it goes from the newbie. I have a Mathews Avail on order but almost just went with a crossbow. I can hardly pull back 50 lbs when Im cold. Last year I tore my rotator cuff really bad trying to pull back on a nice buck and had to take some days off of work, so I just went scouting cause doctor said lay off the nor for 2 weeks. WHAT?? It's nov. 8th , a yr ago today. I had no choice . I can justify a crossbow at 56 and tore up body from doing drywall , framing and remodels for 38 yrs. My arms are shot. I went with an Avail to get the same speed with less poundage. Anyway, I started thinking of all these 250 lb 6' 30 yr olds on public with their crossbows. I think we should let traditional archery go first , like Sept 15 . Then let compounds start on Oct. 1 and crossbows start Oct. 15, gun season Nov. 15 like Michigan and have north of HWY 8 start on Nov. 10. I think the muzzy can stay at 10 days . I think this would be fair. A I think it is fair to have a month long season for crossbows . I could have shot a bunch of deer so far this year with a cross bow but so far , I have nothing to show for 22 sits on public land. I think we need to do something and if we dont, I just might also buy a crossbow, head to Price co. and bait like crazy and sit in a tree fort . Crossbows are the new rifle and hardly no way around it especially over a corn pile. If you are on Facebook look at UP trail cams. There are many bucks shot by little kids with Xbows . Some are still laying right on the bait. Sure, I'm happy for the kid but it is no doubt getting a 2 month jump on gun season and we need to do something about it. If we dont , gun season will not even matter anymore. Why wait till gun season when you can go 2 months with an Xbow?
Buddy can you find a different group of people to piss off, or are you so lonely that attention, even negative attention is enough for you? If so there are people that can help
Congratulations to all the ladies pictured on the Leatherwall. They got the job done with real bows, many of today's men cannot. Tougher back then I guess.
Sad when you have to congratulate women for doing jobs they could always do and will do and disparaging men for simply following regulations that have been enacted but I guess that's what you do when your ignorant
