Unless something changes TTU might be the best hope for a decent showing in the tourney this year. Baylor has come on a little bit. I have no faith in Squeekers and the kittens. At least I don’t have to listen to any of my WSU friends blabber on this year.
Missing two key big men makes a difference, like when Wade was out for K-State. Where were you then, Kyle? Or when KU beat Duke, Tennessee (both have been ranked #’1 this season) or when they beat Villanova?
Where were the KU fans when the Cats were really struggling? Many of us were pulling for Dean Wade to heal so the Kansas kid could have a good senior year, as he deserves. If KU can’t continue its absurd Big 12 title streak, I’d like for it to be the other Kansas college.
Why don't they just buy another Mike? We made it without DW last year so...
I don't like cheaters, I won't applaud cheating, the transcripts are out there...you and I have read them and even discussed between ourselves. "Mad Billy" cheats, his staff cheats, lots of others do too...but that doesn't change the fact or make it "ok". None of those "titles" mean anything if they weren't earned legitimately, that's my position and no I won't be pulling for them sorry.
Don’t even try, K. Every season he waits until KU hits a rough stretch then shows up with the same hate. Year after year after year. It’s not normal. It’s not healthy. It tries friendships and gets old. It’s like a disease. We’ll hopefully get some more answers, eventually. Kids have been allowed to play when they didn’t know of worse violations. Look at UNC. Mizzou’s football team got tagged really hard recently because a tutor went way overboard . I guess the athletes he helped knew, though. Coaches didn’t, though.
As Dave said above, "it's just a game"...sure don't mean to stress any friendships over comments about a basketball team? Anyway, if you read the transcripts from the case it's pretty easy to tell who knew about what, and I'm afraid this ain't the end of it fellas.
Kyle, you ever make good on our bet last year? You know the one where you said if KU makes it to the sweet 16 you would buy someone’s membership into the KBA? Remember that?? :) Oh yeah, enjoy your team’s super bowl win, hopefully they have enough security to keep the kiddos off the floor this time around.
Exactly, Kansan never touches this thread until his team wins the biggest game of the year. Typical, I’m sure the kittens will print shirts and maybe, maybe just hang a banner. Squeakers will give bill self another funeral, marking the demise of the once proud ku program. Insert another big roll of the eyes from the Jayhawk faithful.
Kyle, you’ve been a gracious enough member of the kba to buy many memberships, if you want me to track down someone I’d be glad to. Other than your annoying college sports preferences you’re a standup fella. ;)
Best team won. We didn’t see that kind of defense when we beat Tennessee, Duke, Michigan State or Villanova earlier this year. Congrats to Dean Wade and the other seniors. 1-8! See you at Allen Field House! How many days were you a KSU student, Kyle? :-)
It is always a big game for KSU, and just another game for KU. Let the Cats cheer and bask in victory, they are few and far between. The played great defense last night against a sub par KU team. Both teams looked bad and the Big 12 is behind the other conferences. Duke is scary good, along with Virginia, Tennessee, Gonzaga, and Kentucky. Baylor may be the team to beat in the Big 12.
Who said the streak didn't mean anything? Just another game in that it is no different for them than beating Iowa State or Baylor. KU is not going to storm the court with a victory over the Cats. They are not going to storm the court with a victory over Kentucky or Michigan State either. As far as being a "Big Game" they are all big when you are going for 15 in row. KState has one shared titled since the conference started. Kstate fans would prefer 2 victories over KU in a season over a conference championship.
I know that you know what I am saying. But in simpler terms, how about for a KU fan a victory over KState has a lot less value than a KState fan has in a victory over KU. I guess if you are not a "Blue Blood" it can be confusing. My favorite team is playing better, and may actually finish out of the basement. But will need a conference tourney win to make the madness.
I know exactly what you are saying. I’ve listened to KU fans say it for 15 years. It gets old. When we beat y’all it’s no big deal. When you beat us, it’s just another day at the office on the way to greatness.... except ya only have one more title than us in my lifetime. Yawn.
You’ve won 4 of the last 26 meetings in football. But y’all act like we shouldn’t get excited when we beat you in basketball. Which happens about as infrequently in recent history. Makes it pretty easy to hate KU fans.
“Hate,” that’s the difference. I don’t know many KU fans that “hate” KSU. Sure are a lot the other way, though. It’s a rivalry, of sorts, for us, but when we were little kids, it was Mizzou that we were taught to always pull against. Heck, we had a real shooting war with them. They had death warrants on my family because we were Quaker and active in the Underground Railroad. (In the early 60s, I can remember my great-grandmother only using “cross” words she referring to anyhow Missouri. The conference title streak doesn’t mean nearly as much since the record is set. Bill Snyder is my favorite football coach of all time, at any level. Most schools would love to be 6-4, and already beat three top 10 teams, including the current #s 1 and #2. This weekend I’ll be pulling for KU, KSU and whoever is playing Mizzou. West...assume you means WSU?
“Storming” the court is a damn good time and relatively harmless, unless someone throws a “chicken wing” of course. Many of my best memories at KState involve winding up on the field or court after a big game, quite a few before I was ever a student. I feel sorry for the kids that grow up Hawk fans and because the v-neck sweater wearing golf clappers in Lawrence think showing that sort of emotion is beneath their fandom they’ll never get to participate in a good court rush. Thinking you’re better than another bunch of fans because you’re a blue blood that doesn’t have to stoop to such shenanigans is really meaningless. This is my nephew. He’s 7. He’ll never forget me taking him down there last night. He’s glad I’m not a stuck up Hawk fan. ;)
K-State fans are harder to hate because they follow sports even when their team is bad, and don’t minimize a major accomplishment of another school because they are holier than thou. KU fans don’t understand why they are easy to hate, which makes it even easier. They are oblivious to their holier than thou attitude (while being atrocious at the most important college sport) and that is frustrating. Not to mention the number of fans who only root for them in basketball.
Stumbled right into it, Cherney. I’ve lived in Manhattan and loved it. Guest-lectured at KSU over 20 times. Nothing bad about either. KB my kids don’t need your sympathy, they turned out just fine, thanks.
What point did I prove, Jeff? That KU fans think everyone is too stupid to understand that beating a ranked team you rarely beat is more exciting than beating an unranked team you always beat. What a point! You ever heard the saying “it goes without saying”? If it goes without saying you don’t need to say it. Unless you like saying obvious things. Or you think everyone else is dumb.
Cherney, don’t look now, but KU will be back soon in football. You happen to catch any signing day coverage yesterday? KU had 1, yes 1 recruit signed when Les took over, he ended up with a class one spot behind K-state. And one more thing, since you bring up championships, how many BCS bowl victories did K-state the mighty football powerhouse rack up?
You guys don’t know much about football, so I forgive you, but the Big 12/Big 8 has always been football conference. While dominating the Big 12 in basketball is an amazing accomplishment, it’s not that big of a deal when you consider the big 12 almost always underperforms when it matters in the NCAA tourney. How many national titles does the conference have in Basketball in the last 30 years? I’m sure you’ll bring up RPI. But that’s flawed as evidenced by the fact that everyone is finally waking up to the fact that it gets more wrong than right when evaluating conferences and teams. Selection committee isn’t even using RPI anymore...
Ah, the old BCS bowl claim to fame. That ‘97 Fiesta Bowl is certainly worthless without a three letter acronym, created the following season, in front of it. Name the schools who have competed in 6 or more of the current New Year’s Six bowls in the last 21 years James. Strong company I would assume... Does KU’s ‘52 banner hang any lower because there were only 1/4 of the teams involved in the tourney than the current system?
Pretty sure Beaty supposedly did better in recruiting than Snyder. We saw how that worked out. It is cute how KU football fans get excited about these hires. Reminds me of how much excitement there was for Charlie Weis. How did that go? At least they’ll average 20,000 fans next season until Miles proves it’s very difficult to win in 2019 with a track around your field.
Lol cherney, Beaty did better than Snyder in recruiting?? Are you really that clueless? Beaty realized his neck was on the line and brought in juco recruits almost exclusively. Beaty was a nice idiot who was in way over his head. You cannot build a program without high school recruits.
Remember what happened to k-state the last time you guys ran Snyder out of the stadium? I loved watching my k-state family talk about the coaches who were lining up to take the reigns when you guys forced Snyder to retire this time.
So KB you can honestly tell me you would not be proud if Snyder had actually won his big game? You remember that game surely. The one he let El Roberson play in, yeah great ethics there. Oh yeah Roberson didn’t help, they still got beat.
He actual played in two bowl games that mattered to KU fans, for the record. But sure, I’d have been ecstatic to beat Ohio St in that game as they were coming off a national title and it would have been a nice addition to the legacy of a great team. That win a month earlier against the Sooners was much sweeter though... Ell missed curfew. Lost his spring scholarship over the ordeal, albeit he was done with eligibility, had to perform community service, and didn’t receive a bowl ring. Seems like a logical punishment while not also punishing the entirety of the program any more than the debacle already had... If we’re going to throw rocks, Bill’s been involved in far less drama than the Hawks basketball program has in the same amount of time. Including sanctions after the ‘88 title, questions about a key player’s eligibility in ‘08, and the crap show Kyle laid out happening currently.
Cherney, jucos don’t build programs, but they do artificially inflate recruiting rankings. Since you’re looking up ku recruiting information, take a look at how many high school recruits Les brought in with less than 3 months on the job. And then compare that to Beaty, since you’ve become an authority on KU football recruiting.
Oh good grief, I just clicked on your link, neither of those guys signed.
You're right James. We're the ones that are full of it. Your claim that they will overtake us again on the gridiron in a few years is so logical. There are few things I care less about than KU football recruiting. Which means I probably care about as much about it as 90% of "KU fans". It's hilarious to hear people talking about how they'll once again overtake KSU in few years. You currently have one of the worst power 5 football programs there has ever been. You can't even beat most mid-majors. 6 conference wins in the last 10 years. That's unprecedented. If Les Miles is able to win the conference or win 10 games in a year before he's fired he'll be comparable to Snyder considering how far that program has fallen. I don't see that happening, he couldn't even do that at OSU...will have the worst talent level of his career at KU.
Time to summarize, I’ve spent way too much time on my day off with this. :) KU will rebound and advance further than K-State in the post season once again. K-State fans will call them cheaters. K-State will continue to not really be satisfied with Squeakers, after losing their own cheater, Huggins, and running off the best coach they’ve recently had in Martin. K-State football will once begin their downward trend the next few years, just like the last time they forced Snyder to retire. Meanwhile, KU will begin trending upward, though the second year could be tough because Beaty left the cupboard compelety bare of high school talent. Life is good!! EMAW! Rock Chalk!
Bill enforced the community service. A lot more came of the Sheron Collins elevator incident than Ell’s, legally speaking. Certainly not his punishment from the coach or school though. And now his jersey hangs in the rafters. You must be proud, right?
The ability of KU fans to bury their heads in the mud is amazing. Ticket/porn star scandals, brawls between football and basketball programs, pellet gun assaults from the dorm window, multiple allegations/incidents involving women (some underage), a crooked AD, players driving cars owned by former player NBA stars, a litany of pay to play/eligibility issues since Self arrived, and now the FBI involved with an actual pay to play investigation... But Bill Snyder never won a BCS bowl and he’s a fraud for not benching a guy whose allegations lasted all of a few hours! The horror.
Another big roll of the eyes, I know many diehard fans of KU who aren’t liberals, you kidding?? And I said I was done, got sucked back in, k-state fan started thread, if ku had won the game nothing would have been said. That says it all. Good luck the rest of the basketball season kitten fans better enjoy it, your path back to irrelevance on the gridiron has begun.
I said you argue like a liberal. Didn't say anything about KU fans all being liberals. The serial killer side of Rader was surely a KU fan. He was schizophrenic. That might be the most "rotten" post yet.
Took the pic down, Chern. Can't even hang BTK being a huge KSU fan on the school. Also a chance he may watch bowsite since he has a TV and access to a computer, at least to read. I wouldn't want to stoke his ego, or disrespect any family members of the victims who might be on the site. And they did find a lot of KSU stuff amid his other "treasures" when they finally raided his house and shed in his backyard. It was well know that he had no use for KU, nothing but pure hatred. See, you're in great company!
Not sure what you mean by schizophrenic. If you mean multiple personalities, that's another mental disease. Schizophrenic is more like totally delusional, out of touch, you know, like Ky....no, can't do it.
I kind of get a chuckle out of the liberal-bashing. So many liberalaphobics. Always wonder if they're like some homophobics, with some deep-seated leanings towards what they fear and protest. I'm married to a liberal, a KU grad of three degrees, KU basketball fan...and she's done more to help people than at least Kyle and I X 100. Amazing the number of families and lives she's saved. She got her professional start in Manhattan, where business was so good. Come and try to take her .38 away, I dare you.
I actually feel bad for him. That’s the one situation that makes me wish the NCAA could help the families of these kids who make them money. Their kids are off making money for the NCAA and broadcasters and everyone else while they struggle to make ends meet a lot of times. And the kids have to try to stay focused when they have crazy stuff going on back home.
At least neither of the schools are Baylor. Covered-up murders, covered-up rapes. It could always be worse. Send your daughter to school for $40,000/year to have her get sexually assaulted and covered-up by the police and athletic department. Thank God neither school is that dirty. Baylor can to the same place Rader is going for all I care.
(Edit: Didn’t know writer already posted and deleted. Don’t know how to do so or would remove)
Hey KB, I’m sorry to say I remember that pellet gun incident, but it wasn’t a pellet gun, and the shots weren’t fired out of a dorm window, they fired out of a car on interstate 435 in Kansas City!!
Oops, sorry that wasn’t a KU basketball player from years ago, that was a Amaad Wainright who played for Squeakers last year. I’m sure glad he was immediately kicked off the team and never played another game for being involved in a drive by shooting...oops, he did continue to play. Squeaky-clean squeakers ain’t so squeaky clean??
Tell me about it, go and beat TCU last night while starting 4 freshman. The future looks bright! Oh yeah, the kittens beat up ol smart’s pitiful team, bet they’re thrilled they ran off rick Barnes now. Lol
James, I honestly thought the jr. hack's looked pretty good last night, considering they had it lost. "Mad Billy's" half-time meltdown could be a candidate for the Razzies, that'll keep you busy post season.
University of Adidas may still have a shot, but noneya would put your money on that lol
A chance for what, Kyle? I hear from k-state fans all the time that a conference championship in the big twelve isn’t a real accomplishment. Of course I’m sure that their view will change if k-state wins it outright this year. So, are you talking about ku having a chance for that, or making the tourney? Perhaps making it to the sweet sixteen? You already lost that bet last year. I kind of like the idea of KU going into the tourney with a 4 or lower seed and absolutely no expectations for a young team for a change.
On another note, why in the world did Louisville let Duke back in that game? That’s all we’re gonna hear about the rest of the week now. :/
Not bad logic when you consider the numbers... obviously doesn’t work out too well for them when they are a #1 seed....
“Despite Self's consistency, many reporters have questioned his abilities in the NCAA Tournament because of various upsets in early rounds, as well as a 3–7 record in the regional finals, despite being a #1 seed 7 times.”
They were a 1 seed last year and went to the Final where they lost to the National Champions. Try using this argument another time—too fresh off of a decent year to start throwing barbs at Self and the tournament.
So you tell me cherney, is the big twelve full of good teams? Seems every kitten fan I talk to says ku only has such an impressive streak because the big twelve is not a good basketball conference. They can say this with their chests inflated because they believe the big 12 is a football conference. Which is ridiculous, how many national titles has the big 12 won the last 20 years? So in a bad football conference, k-state, a football school, has cleaned up on conference titles of course.... Another big roll of the eyes at another k-state fan.
Cherney I do applaud you if you're a Weber fan, most of the k-state fans I know can't stand him. K-State would be hard-pressed to get a better coach at their "football school".
Cherney while you're spouting numbers, what is Self's overall record in the NCAA tourney? This includes his time at Oral Roberts, Tulsa, Illinois, and Kansas -- 47-19; I'm sure you would never be happy with that kind of post season record for a coach at k-state.
I think the big 12 is a trash conference in basketball. They talk about how it's the toughest conference. Guess my definition of tough is considerably different. I'd take the top 3 teams in the Big 10, ACC, SEC, and Big East pretty much every year. Which makes the Big 12, what, the 5th best conference in my eyes? Big 8/12 schools have won 5 national titles since 94 in football. One in basketball over that span. I think that speaks for itself. If you want to talk about more recent history, you still have two since the turn of the century in football and one in basketball. Nobody is claiming that KSU is superior to KU. Nobody is claiming that KSU football is superior to KU basketball. Nobody is claiming Weber is a better coach than Self. Nobody is claiming Self is a bad coach. He's as good as you can get at KU. No doubt about that. But his 3-7 record in regional finals have to be tough to swallow for a perennial powerhouse who probably see themselves as a top 3 program.
You're right about this, the big 12 stinks at football and basketball. OU dominates the football field but has lost some big games, same for KU on the court. As far as KU being a top 3 program we don't see it, EVERYONE sees it; we're talking decades, not coaches. KU will soon be number one in wins, the Jayhawks have been gaining on Kentucky almost every year in the last decade.
Yeah, Self isn't a bad coach, he's simply a hall of famer who will win multiple national titles before he retires. I just hope he doesn't go to the league before that happens.
So Cherney, you like Weber? You might be the first k-state fan I know who is satisfied with Weber.
I don't like him. I agree that he's about as good as we can expect to get. His teams play defense, but the offense can be brutal to watch, which makes us a top 75 team on a bad night and a top 15 team on a good night. I don't see them as a top 3 program. But I weigh my grading system heavily towards National titles, of which they lag behind quite a few programs. As far as Self being a hall of famer, I suppose it will depend how many wins are vacated as a result of this "probe". As it stands, he's definitely one of the top 10 coaches of his era.
Not much to talk about, they aren't very good. Kstate could possibly make it to the round of 16 but none of the others will. Some fans will always get their high off of KU's failures versus their own teams success. Same thing happens to Duke, UConn, North Carolina, and Kentucky.
Kind of like we are when we’re winning against teams like TN, MiState, Nova earlier in the season. Go back and see how these threads usually get started year after year. West still has a better handle on the sport than the rest of us.
I prefer to watch the NBA. It is not the same game as it was in the 80's, 90's, and early 2000's. They play great defense, spread the floor, and shoot the deep ball. Amazing how good these players are.
We match up pretty well with them. Not sure they can show up big unless they make every three they throw up. They needed a career night from Mitch Lightfoot in Manhattan to even stay in the game. If Lawson struggles it should be a double digit Cats victory.
Should be a decent game with KU coming out on top. It took KU losing 4 players this year for this to happen. K-State has a veteran team that made a good run last year. I wouldn’t count out KU for a sweet sixteen run West. They will come into the tourney with absolutely no expectations, that’s good for a baby team. KU hasn’t started 4 freshman in decades. Looking to the future, this group of freshman could turn into something special. Dotson is the real deal, not to say anything about Ochai!
Lol Kyle, I’m a veteran. You have to understand, most of my KU gear is football stuff. I’m not the typical KU fan. The 07-08 football team brought me MUCH more excitement than the basketball team of the same year. I enjoy watching college hoops, I love watching college football. The last decade has been brutal!! Even worse than the Terry Allen years!!!!!
Well the refs decided that KU needs this one. Might as well go to bed. Call a block on Dotson’s layup after he misses the layup and hits the ground. Call an and one on Wade after he gets hooked clearly on the floor if anything at all. No call on Brown getting smacked at the rim the next trip. Amazing that their record is so good at home and they can’t win against good teams in the tournament on neutral floors. Wonder why.
Geez, the old “refs like KU’l whine. Look, if the home team’s not getting the calls, their crowd isn’t doing their job. (This is where Kyle says he knows we aren’t paying the refs because all the money goes to the players.)
1 dunk in the game. Big 12 is weak. Cherney, Weber and his players seemed okay with the way the game was officiated. I suppose you can credit all the turn overs to the officials as well. Dean Wade is hurt. If they continue to play him they can kiss any success in the tourney bye bye. But hey, when you only have one chance in the last 15 years to win a league title you might as well roll the dice.
Congrats, writer! Still in the hunt... even with half their players missing. It’s just subtle stuff. Article talks about it a little. I mean you can act like it’s normal if it makes you feel better and you disregard facts, but Huggins sees it, Rick Barnes sees it, Bruce Weber sees it. All biased haters. Sleep well. The season is just getting good.
I really didn't think KU would win with their inside game last night. But when Lawson gets 14 rebounds, Lightfoot gets 5, and Dotson drives the lane for a layup whenever he wants it's hard not to score a bunch from inside.
I felt bad for K-State. I thought this was a game they needed (to at least be close) for a strong finish to the season. Instead, they looked deflated by the end.
Honestly, of all the games between the teams at Allen, losing this one would have bothered me the least. Cats win,league is theirs and taken outright. Unlike many, if we’re going to hand over the crown, I’d prefer Wade and a band of blue collar upper classmen take it...even if the fans are the most obnoxious in the league. :-)
I’m a Jayhawk fan at heart have been since I was a kid - But I always root for the Wildcats in the tournament as well as most of the other big 12 teams except when Missouri was in the league I couldn’t root for Missouri !!
That’s a little better than the percentage tech shot against KU in Lubbock, but not much better. Kyle, better not look in the rearview, tech is tailgating something fierce. I think KU’s hopes went up in smoke tonight.
As I said quite a few days ago, don’t get your hopes up too high for anything significant to happen to KU. They aren’t sheltered like Duke; but I’m betting the NCAA has already made their move in DeSousa. Cherney, as far as the current team goes, these freshman will be drubbing big 12 teams the next couple of years, so enjoy watching the growing pains now.
None of them are too promising besides Dotson. He’s legit, but could bolt after next year. Poor Grimes kid may be past repair. Poor guy seems like a poor man’s Xavier Henry. McCormack shows some promise. Agbaji may have already peaked...
Go back and read through the years, Kyle, that’s what you’ve said every friggin’ year, like last year when they made it to the Final Four. Also every year you stay underground until they have a bad game. Every. Friggin’ Year.
Ksq — a very good friend agrees with you about the freshmen. Then again, he can’t possiby know as much about basketball as Chern and Kyle, despite having hung 30/20 on Sr. night against the Cats, 1st team All-American and the NBA championship ring. Typical KU “thug,” though, him and his youth ministry. :-)
"The damage done by Mr. Gatto's and his co-conspirators' greed cannot be overstated," Sullivan wrote. "Their actions have impaired the University of Kansas' ability to continue to fully use those resources for both the benefit and welfare of its student-athletes, as well as for its ongoing mission of educational and community development and enrichment."
The main Co-conspirator is Bill Self. That’s a fact.
If you are gonna play this damn dumb about this there is no sense trying to have a conversation about it. It’s obvious that they knew exactly what was going on and they are claiming the victim BS to try to keep that squeaky clean image. Good grief, man. Quit acting like a naive teenager. You know that a hall of fame coach isn’t talking to Adidas reps about potential recruits just for the hell of it. Get a grip bro.
They are seeking a million dollars in restitution. Did you miss that? From a guy that sat at the table with self at his hall of fame induction ceremony dinner. Let’s at least be honest with each other. You can’t act like they are the victim here.
Me get a grip? You’re the one cursing. Lol I’m just telling you nothing is going to happen to them, and you will be majorly disappointed. Just like I was disappointed when UNC didn’t get nailed for making up classes. Just like when Duke never gets nailed for paying players and their families. Btw, Nike is next...
Oh cherney.... I’m a hypocrite now. Goodness, you’re taking this way too seriously. I have many K-State fan friends, but you sir I think take the cake for the most jealous little brother syndrome. Btw, KU still leads in the football win margin in this “rivalry” too. Enjoy the KU loss! Get back to me when KU gets the death penalty. Lol
All you KU haters crack me up! You hate because your team very seldom has success! Adults should be fans of their teams not haters of other teams!! If State had Self and KU had Webber you would be singing a different tube!!!
You're exactly right leebo, if KU had won the conference again this year, and cruised through the Big 12, a thread like this would never have popped up. Has a similar thread even been started by a KU fan? I doubt it.
It's funny crested, I've only seen one fanbase so obsessed with the success, or lack thereof, of their rival -- that fanbase is also represented by my in-laws -- OSU. They HATE all things boomer!!!!!! At least OSU can hang their hat on being a wrestling national power. KSU has absolutely nothing to gloat about, except occasionally beating KU on the court, and beating horrible KU teams on the gridiron for 18 years or so (KU still holds a huge lead historically on the field too). I think their fans are more excited about this year than making a great run to the elite 8 last year.
Are you kidding KB? KU fans will still put KU in the championship -- we're delusional!!!
Okay...so that it's a yearly deal to maintain interest, if KSU beats them by 21+ in any year between now and the end of 4 years you have to get one that year as well. If the game is less than 7 points but KSU still wins, I have to get one for you that year.
Sounds good to me! Minus the snake chaps...:) I might have to write that down though, those spreads are going to be hard to remember. I'm not good with the betting lingo. KU +21 and KSU -7. Is that right?
Here is a coaches perspective on what is wrong with KU. Since the departure of assistant coach Danny Manning, KU looks different. The bigs keep getting worse. Over the course of 3 or 4 seasons, players like Withey, the Morris boys, Trob, Traylor, etc improved drastically each year with Manning. Coach Hudy also changed their bodies. Since Manning left the bigs look horrible. A bunch of skinny bodies who don't play angry and can't dunk. No post moves, never an up and under, a spin move, a jump hook, etc. Doke didn't look any better this year. They have gotten by because the Big 12 is a good conference with parity, but not a physical conference with size like the ACC, SEC, Big 10, or even the American. Time caught up with them this season and the luck and invincibility and intimidation of other teams vanished. Something has to change in the recruiting, philosophy, and assistant coaching staff. Get some players to coach up over 4 years. The Big 12 is boring and KU isn't helping.
Doke cannot stay healthy long enough to improve. If Embiid has remained healthy, KU would have been the clear favorite for the title. He was simply incredible, and his improvement was off the charts. Hudy is still there. I do see what you’re saying, but I think you’re exaggerating some too. A healthy Doke all year and KU brings home another conference title. Oh well, Embiid going down was a much bigger blow I think than Doke, this team was never competing for a national title. Although, now that I think about it, they beat some good teams with Doke early...
Manning is probably going to get fired soon, hopefully they can get him back as an assistant!!
I disagree with his improvement, he was only there for 3/4 of a season. He got by on physical size and athletic ability not skill. Besides that is in the past. Each year that KU has inched away from Manning the worse it gets. I don't think they would have won the titled with Doke, maybe Desousa. Self couldn't put Doke on the court in a close game in the second half. Someone has changed Hudy's philosophy. When in the last 5 seasons have you seen a player physically turn into a Trob? Heck they cut Dokes size down. They have adopted a lighter, thinner player philosophy for quickness on the perimeter. Not bulk and physicality.
Clipper, rewatch some games of Embiid at KU. Better yet, watch his highlights. His footwork was amazing, he didn’t learn that all on his own. I agree Manning was an asset, he may be one at KU again, but to say big men have completely been overlooked and minimized is an exaggeration. Doke was a dough boy when he got to KU, he is ripped now and physically stronger than 90% of the post men in college basketball. At least he was before this latest injury. McCormick will only get stronger too and he already is a man-child. KB, lack of real guys? Come on now, if anything, Self needs to focus more on the not so highly ranked guys that will stick around longer.
He pulls them to quick after a mistake. I worry Grimes will transfer. McCormick has showed nothing and has only played out of desperation. You see a different team than I do. If KU had been in the ACC, Big 10, SEC no way 14 in a row. Even this year teams like TCU, Baylor, Texas would be cellar dwellers in the ACC, Big 10, SEC, or even the American. Houston, UCF, Cincinnati are better than most all the teams in Big 12 if not all of em. Texas Tech looks like the only team poised for a good run in the tourney. KU will win in the first round, maybe, then after that it will be trouble. Kstate should make the sweet 16. It is all about match ups,
Nice trophy. Now, how far will K-State have to go for the state fans to not be disappointed? For years I’ve heard the big 12 conference winner doesn’t mean much from K-State fans. So what now for the wildcats? Elite 8? Final 4? Sweet 16? KU usually gets a #1 or #2 seed for winning the big 12, wonder how K-State will handle being a 2 seed? The hunters become the hunted... Meanwhile, KU will head to the tourney without the pressure of expectations for the first time in a long time. It will be interesting seeing which Kansas team exceeds expectations this year.
Maybe I don’t, you know I’m used to my team being a top seed, maybe you can school me on low seeds.... lol
Seriously, with this young of a team it would be good for them to be the underdog. The committee rarely gets it right anyway, either that or they set up drama every year on purpose by seeding teams too low.
Kansas won't be an underdog in their opponent's eyes. Lucky like when y'all made the final 4 while beating an 8 or higher in each game? Or lucky like when y'all coulda done it again if you wouldn't have lost to 11 seed VCU? 9 seed was the highest you beat that year but couldn't quite knock off the 11 seed to reach the final 4. Glass house.... never learn tho when you're riding a high horse.
They were lucky to get to the final 4 or no? If you beat a 1 seed does that cancel the “luck” of the path up to that point? If we would have beaten Loyola, then Michigan would that have validated our run? Or is a 3 seed not good enough to cancel out prior “Luck”? Trying to get it straight so I’ll know the right time to use the word lucky.
Remember when Duke, UNC, UK and Nova all won multiple titles since KU’s last? And a decent chance one picks up another this year. When does the “blue blood” officially wear off? As long as the zebras keep ‘em undefeated at home in 8-loss seasons, you’ll still be in the all time wins convo. But is that enough for blue blood?
It’s so fun ribbing Kstate fans about tourney success, just making the tourney is an accomplishment for them. They simply cannot help bringing up VCU, Bucknell, and Bradley. All the time they would give anything to trade places with KU when it comes to tourney success. They are so stuck on their big brother that they chant f___ KU to celebrate their freshly won big 12 championship. Enjoy it cherney, next year’s gonna be tough!
KU’s so concerned with themselves they don’t think they have a rival. Meanwhile all the schools they compare themselves to have left them in the dust. And others are catching up fast. Nebraska fell out of CFB blue bood status rather quick. KU is in danger of the same thing.
You guys are awesome!! Lol Again, who started this thread, about what program? KB, who is leaving KU in the dust? They are gaining every year on Kentucky in totals wins. But since you’re not obsessed with KU, I wouldn’t expect you to know that.
I’ve been to quite a few games at Allen field house. I’ve never heard a chant by 90% of the crowd screaming f____ KSU, after playing a team that wasn’t even K-state. That’s the definition of obsessed fellas, get used to it, or try to change the mindset of your fellow fans. They screamed with passion after beating the SOONERS and clinching the championship!!
Well.... I’ve never cursed at a buck, or a wildcat.
Yeah KB, it’s great cheering for a team that wins national titles! I love it! Witnessed it a couple times in my life, and other close calls in 2002 and 2012, when no one expected KU to be there (2012). What about you?
The Big 12 is always over seeded in the NCAA Tourney. Just not on par with the other conferences with a win percentage of 57% and only one National Championship. Big 12 is a good conference with lots of parity, but not deserving of 8 bids in the tournament. Wichita State since 2012 has a better record in the NCAA tourney than any team in the Big 12 and they always get the shaft on seeding.
ACC 66% Big East 61% Big 10 60% SEC 60% American 57% Pac 10 56
"Maybe I don’t, you know I’m used to my team being a top seed, maybe you can school me on low seeds.... lol" Under Self, KU has 6 losses to teams seeded 7 or lower (7, 9, 10, 11, 13, and 14). Under Self, KU has 8 losses to teams seeded 4 or higher (2 to 1 seeds, 3 to 2 seeds, 2 to 3 seeds, and 1 to a 4 seed).
Therefore, it's more likely (even for a guy with 6 losses to low seeds in 15 years) to lose to a high seeded team than a low seeded team. Seems crazy to have to explain this. Usually the teams with the higher seeds have proven to be the better teams. If you are a 4 seed you would likely have to beat a 1 seed to make it to the Elite 8. Past experience shows Self doesn't do well against low seeded teams. So just to help you out, generally the path to the final 4 is much easier for a 1 seed than a 8 seed.
Cherney, keep on talking buddy. A number one seed is always going to lose to a lower seed. Parity is not just a big 12 thing, it’s a NCAA thing. You get to the sweet sixteen and from there on it’s a crap shoot. Even more so in the elite 8. I would not agree with the statement in today’s NCAA that a one seed path is always easier than that of a four seed. Look what happened to Virginia last year. I would much rather my team have the highest 2 seed than the lowest 1 seed. This year KU will be a 4 seed at the highest, I can’t wait. This young team has felt the pressure ever since Doke went down to not be the team to lose the streak. That’s over now and the expectations by everyone are very low.
That was literally the first time that's ever happened. It's hard to debate with someone who just keeps changing the argument. I'm done trying. I hope they win a national title so your low expectations theory can come true. Then every fan base and team can just lower their expectations and watch the championships pile up...
Tough times in Lawrence. Squabbling over $3mil... Meanwhile Manhattan is a couple years removed from completing $185mil in football stadium upgrades and another $200+ million planned in athletic complex upgrades or additions. Even gave Bill a complementary $3.0mil “for all he’s done” as a parting gift.
KB, better enjoy it! lol!!!!! How have things worked out for Craig Bohl out in Wyoming? Sito, Beaty is a joke, the only guy who's more of an idiot than him is KSU grad Sheahon Zenger.... KU football cheating?? Lol, is that how they pulled in all those top football recruits?
KB, you guys kicked Snyder out the door, don't act like you didn't. Now that he's gone for good, you're team will sink back into irrelevancy once again. Do you remember just how bad KSU was before Bill Snyder?
It's common knowledge Bill was lobbying for his son to get the job, that didn't happen. If he wasn't kicked out the door, than my family K-State grads are wrong, that's their opinion and they were happy about it. When Prince failed miserably to produce a "great program", Snyder came back to save the day. What happens if/when Mr North Dakota fails? No good div. 1 coaches want to come to Manhattan. You couldn't even get the North Texas coach, and he's not div. 1 either! The next five years will be interesting for the state fans... As KU fans, we can only go up or stay at the same level, the football program can't get any worse!
If you are going to talk about college football, the only teams worth mention are Alabama, Clemson, and Ohio State. The rest have no chance. Georgia, Oklahoma, and Notre Dame may have a good season here and there but they aren't winning anymore national titles. College football, I just have no interest since the outcomes are predetermined. Other than the Big 3, the rest of teams are playing for no purpose.
Paper Champions! Determined by the dishonest media. At least in basketball 68 teams were given the opportunity to play their way to a championship. You could be 0-30 and play your way into the tournament. In football the rankings go to the biggest schools who draw the biggest attendance. UCF will never be given a chance in football but they have a great chance of getting to the Sweet 16 in basketball.
Cherney, you must be really young, KSU prior to Snyder was beyond horrible... Even after a decade of pitiful football, KU still leads the series comfortably. THAT’S how bad KSU was. Soon KU will be padding their series lead again, but we’ve already had that disagreement. :)
Chern...Bill Snyder has said what he inherited was worse than any recent KU team. How old were you when Snyder came? I had graduated KU and a father of two, living in Manhattan. What he did has often been called the biggest turnaround in college sports. I watched it all unfold. I’d have to agree.
Cherney, you’re preaching to the choir telling KU fans how bad KU has been lately. It’s just laughable that you don’t realize, as a state fan, how bad KSU was before Snyder. Realizing this is a huge compliment to Coach Snyder. I have a good friend who played there before Snyder, he went to the NFL because “Futility U” made him so good.....at punting!
Breaking news: Lunardi is making his call, KSU over Duke as his favorite for bringing home a national title! Goodness, he’s always been awful in his bracketology, but he’s finally nailed it this year!!!! Are you going to hang a banner in Bramledge? The Joe Lunardi favorite — 2019
Bruce has his best recruiting class yet heading to MHK. Bill, Devon, and Dedric running to the league as fast as they can get there with the FBI sniffing around. KU might go 14 straight without a title! At least you have Les and should win more than one conference game in four years. Tough times in Lawrence indeed!
You Redneck Kstate fans kill me! All you really care about is beating KU. Instead of competing nationally and being in the national title conversation! It definitely showed when you stormed the court and chanted F__k KU! ( NO CLASS ). Even with Snyder being the football coach, how often were the cats in the preseason conversation of being possible national champs! For all of you that want to throw up cheating in sports, if you think for one minute that the team you cheer for doesn't break NCAA rules you are smoking dope!!! Every one of them are guilty, The only ones that get brought up by the media are schools that are bigtime contenders. So non-fans of these bigtime programs will continue to hate and life goes on!!!
I'm sorry guys, put the pipes down (thanks Lee); KU is not going to go 14 years without winning a league title in basketball. Times are "tough" in Lawrence, it's a bad year yes, but put it in perspective fellas -- a bad year for KU is another 20+ win season and another trip to the NCAA tourney, they lead the nation in consecutive trips to the tourney by the way, but as State fans obsessed with KU, I'm sure all of you knew that. I'm glad State has a decent recruiting class coming in, it's nice that they occasionally beat KU, keeps things in perspective a little bit. They're gonna need all the help they can get graduating all of those seniors.
KB, dream on, Dotson isn't going anywhere next year. Dedric is gone yes, but that was a foregone conclusion before the season even began.
One more thing, cheating in NCAA basketball is like driving 69 in a 65 -- they all do it, Lee is right. If you KSU fans think you're exempt I bring to the evidence table Bill Walker and the Beas! lol
Case in point about cheating, did you hear the latest on Zion? Duke and Nike reps are designing a specific shoe for Zion...in China. ESPN is doing Zion/Duke promos...and NCAA is investigating KU and whether or not Gassanola is a booster. THAT'S the NCAA at its finest!
Good thing we have all these knowledgeable KU grads to enlighten us on the frequency of bending the rules in college athletics. How NC St, LSU, Miami, USC and Auburn are “bigtime” programs. And lastly, that North Texas is not a Division 1 football program.
Good luck today against Huggy and his misfits. We’ll be rooting for the Mountaineers, not because we’re obsessed with hating KU, but because Bob made KState basketball great again! Billy and Mike were the best!
You said they weren’t. When in fact they have been D-1 since 1995. Which was about time KU dropped out of any sort of college football relevancy they previously had, so I’ll forgive you. And you’ll respond with an Orange Bowl comment, so I’ll just save us time and claim that team was the result of Mangino’s excellence in breaking the rules. Because no one can be good without cheating afterall. We’ve learned that. Carry on.
KB are you counting div 1 AA as real div 1?? While you're at it, can you tell me why their coach figured he was better off staying at North Texas than coming to K-State?? Do you really want to open that can of worms? lol
You need to read up on college football classifications. As far Litrell coming to Manhattan it’s hard to say what really happened. Some said he withdrew his name before he was ever offered. That our AD wanted his former coach all along, but had to go through the motions to see if he could find a better candidate. Or there was an offer, and a squabble over the coaching staff caused a divide. Doesn’t really matter at this point. The predominant thought is he’ll wind up in Norman as soon as Lincoln Riley moves on. I know one thing. Klieman has impressed me more than a bad hair dyed grass-eating Les who can barely talk anymore.
KB, your honestly telling me you're happy with the coach you got? Come on now, you weren't dreaming of a bigger name coming to Manhattan? I would have been disappointed if Klieman had come to KU...we've already had our turn with a highly successful lower div coach -- Terry Allen. I am 100% happy with KU getting Les Miles. Am I delusional? I guess time will tell. The early returns are in my favor KU's recruiting class took a mighty jump, with Miles only having a few weeks on the job. You do know KU's class is ranked one spot behind that of KSU now, right?
KB I'm calling your bluff; if you were calling for Klieman as your next head coach, you were on an island none of my KSU family swam to. I'd be majorly ticked at the AD if I was a State fan; UNLESS he was the best my university could get and Patterson, Venables, and host of other old Wildcats wanted nothing to do with their former school...
High enough KU wanted them. They probably won’t be Jordy Nelson’s. But I’ll take Kerry Meier production. ;)
No bluff here. I wanted Venables. But we knew that was a pipe dream. Was on board the Litrell bandwagon as well. But he’s no more of a known commodity than Klieman. Like I said, no use in whining now. Is what it is. So far I’ve liked what I’ve seen.
KB, I just looked up North Texas -- west division of conference USA, I'm sorry you're right. In my defense though, I looked at the participating colleges and after seeing the members, I could see why I thought they were div. 1aa. They look like a list of the Bill Snyder non-con teams! :)
Ok KB, at least you're honest enough to admit you were disappointed. Here's the elephant in the room for every KSU fan. Why wouldn't more highly respected Div. 1 coaches be interested in coming to coach in Manhattan, IF they are such a powerful program?
I'd say they're hesitant because of Snyder's legacy...at KU, on the other hand, there are no expectations. If KU can draw 100 fans that will be 50 more than normal(not including the band and men's dance team).
I'm not disappointed at all...thinkin Klieman will be just fine, he's done a heck of a job in ND.
2 poor shots by Diarra in the final minutes just killed Kstate. One right in front of the bench. Get the ball to your best player and attack the basket. Brown got the ball once in the last 2 minutes. Shockers tip off in a bit.
I hear you on Texas, Smart needs to be shown the door. TCU could make some noise and they have enough wins, they will be in. Oklahoma has played a little better later in the season, but you’re prolly right on them too.
That Sandstorm chant really gets to you guys! Just some 19 year olds doing 19 year old things.
Dean’s got a nice looking lady friend. Not sure she’s trashy. And top right chick obviously started a little early at the PnL this morn.
Ugly game. Iowa St is bad if they don’t make 15 3’s. We were worse. Better tonight than next weekend. Good luck tomorrow Hawks. Should win by 15, but KC is their Super Bowl so weird stuff can happen. I’ll be looking for antlers!
TCU will have a hard time getting in. Too many mid majors still alive in conference tournaments. Shockers still alive. Marshall has done one of his best coaching jobs ever. The Shockers are better right now than TCU, Texas, or Oklahoma. They weren't 3 or 4 weeks ago.
Not one dunk in the Big 12 Championship. Big 12 is weak. Cincinnati and Houston are better than any of the Big 12 teams. Shockers made a great game of it and a great coaching job by Marshall for a no talent team. They had a losing record in late January.
They are young. WSU is not going to get the one and done players so it takes time. It was a rebuilding year where they only had 3 players return. They will be back in a year or 2. Kind of like Kstate. Those players were not good 4 years ago. Kind of like KU this year, bad year recruiting for Bill I guess. Too bad WSU wasn't in the Big 12.
Clipper, you can’t be serious. WSU finished in the middle of a conference that may get 3 teams in the tournament. Currently, WSU is on bended knee begging to get into the NIT. The same tournament the 8th place team in the Big XII (TCU) won 2 years ago. The same tournament you all won and Marshall trash-talked KU after losing in the Elite 8. We fondly call it the Not Important Tournament/Not Invited Tournament.
80-48 loss to OU this year for you all in December. A team at the BOTTOM of the Big XII. Not a single win against a ranked opponent for WSU. Your 2 biggest wins are UCF and Baylor. You got pounded by OU the week after the Baylor win. Baylor is a middle of the road team for the Big XII.
Being from Wichita originally, I support the hometown team. I’m friends with one of your assistant coaches and have drinks with him frequently. In fact, I was texting him congratulations throughout your tournament. It’s the irrational fan base that makes the KSU and KU folks anti-WSU. You all looked good down the stretch but a far cry from the ISUs, KSUs, and KUs of the world. I hope you all get some post-season play, I’ll support you. Be a little more rational here.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see ISU in the Elite 8. They are a good team. I’d love to see KSU there again this year. Sweet 16 would be a good benchmark for KU without Vick, Doke, and DeSousa.
The Big 12 is over rated. WSU has done very well vs the Big 12 since beating KU in the NCAA tourney. Their record is top 5 since 2012 in the NCAA, even with KU, and better than every team in the Big 12. Look at their losses in the NCAA. Their conference will get 4 teams in. The Big 12 deserves 5. Top to bottom the Big 12 is better than the American but Kstate, Texas Tech, Iowa State, and KU are not in the same ball park as the team in the ACC, which why the highest ranked team in the Big 12 struggles to make the top 15. Year in and year out KU is one the best but injuries killed them. That is the only thing that kept them from getting number 15. Kstate and Tech was given a gift with an injury to Doke and the suspension of Desousa. That is the only way they can beat KU.
WSU's loss to OU was early and they are not the same team now. And neither is OU, they have gotten worse.
Since 2012 WSU 10-7 with a Final 4 and 2 Sweet 16 appearances. Has made the tournament every year since 2012. KState 5-5 with one Elite 8 appearance and did not make the tournament in 15 and 16.
You can put out all the rankings you want. Head to head, WSU has more wins than losses against the Big 12 since beating KU in the tournament. They would compete at the top of the conference year in and year out. Bottom line is the mid majors are big time players in the tournament. Just look what happened last year. The Power 5 schools draw big crowds and generate money, that is why they get the bids. An early exit last year, big deal. How many early exits has KU had with a number 1 or 2 seed? Other than KU, every school in the Big 12 would love to have Greg Marshall coaching their team.
How come the coaches poll keeps saying how good the Big 12 is? Those guys wrong? Notice so many KSU fans say Big 12 is over-rated until their team gets first place? Marshall is a great coach. KU is missing three starters, and had to totally rewire their style of play. Not an excuse, it’s happened to other teams.
It is good, meaning parity from top to bottom. KU is the only program that can compete with the ACC, SEC, and Big 10 on a consistent basis. But the top 4 or 5 teams from the American can compete with any of the teams from the Big 12. The bottom teams from those conferences can't but the top ones sure can and do.
KU is in trouble. 1 win then bounced out by Auburn. However there first round game is not going to be easy. Kstate looks to have an easy path but Oregon is playing well. At least the committee got it right leaving out TCU and Texas. I thought there were 2 other teams that should have gotten in over Oklahoma. Big 12 got 6 and the American got 4.
UC Irvine is playing WAY better than Northeastern... 17 wins in a row(BPI 82 vs 80), and any team in this has a shot as they're all fighting for a "last chance". To say KSU has an "easy path" is just "homer-talk". Regardless, all the Big 12 teams should make it past the first round but I bet nobody has KU making it past Auburn unless they're sniffin glue.
It's not going to be fun watching and hearing about Duke winning it all these next few weeks. I honestly don't think any big 12 teams will make it out of the sweet 16. I'll be very surprised if KU can get past Auburn, they don't defend the 3 worth anything -- they may not get past Northeastern; although my heart put them in the sweet 16 in my bracket.
Oh Kyle, we’ll all be buddies again, as soon as they crown Coach K, the great leader of men, aka ratface, king of the universe again. Then we can all loath him in unity. :) And if that doesn’t work, we’ll all be buddies again when deer season rolls around, it can’t come soon enough!!!
I like basketball a lot more than deer hunting, at least now-a-days. Just look at all the replies on this thread. You never get any long threads like this about hunting, unless Sito starts one up on BAITING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sito which do you hate most, baiting or KU?????????????? I bet Bill Self would be a "Baiter" if he started hunting, and with a crossbow!