A.P.R. is it working??
Michigan
Contributors to this thread:
Been hunting Manistee national forest for 37 years. I was excited about A.P.R.'s for the first couple years. The results are not so impressive. Excessive does harvested and too many 3yr old "super forks" (16" wide, no brow tines, 7" g2"s)
I hunt and live in the area ,The herd Is way down ( thank you DNR) and I haven't been impressed with the 3/4 Aprs. All it has done is draw in hunting pressure IMO. Things might be better on bigger chunks of private land but all I hunt is public . I like seeing deer, big deer ,small deer it doesn't matter to me. But when you go out for periods of time and see nothing but squirrels or don't even cut a track in areas that use to have deer, it gets depressing.
My camp and property sits in the middle of Manistee National Forest and the first couple years out from APR, we were seeing more bucks but fewer deer. Now we are just seeing
substantially less deer overall.
KPC
I am in Iron County, and they need to take out some does,,,,, south of 2 and east of 73 to Iron Mountain, could be a whole zone in itself,,,,, The dnr agrees, but they get it shot down by the NRC
I would agree on that ground hunter, I was there two years ago and that's all we basically saw in the area your talking about. Can't stockpile deer in the Yoop that's for sure. I wouldn't have a problem with them opening doe back with archery equipment or even a few permits for every one gun/bow.
Its been about 4 years and we are seeing more deer and many bigger bucks.
Jon where are you located that you are seeing the opposite of anyone I know in the NW12 ?
Burly:
I can't and won't speak for Jon, but in my experience it all depends on private vs public land and quality of habitat.
Even though I own my own land, it's a small parcel and it sits smack dab in the middle of thousands of acres of MNF...literally. We have a 40 acre parcel that is surrounded on all four sides by miles of federal land. Because of this, it might just as well be all public land.
When the herd size was high, like 10-15 years ago, even marginal habitat (like much of MNF) had a decent amount of deer. As the herd has steadily declined in numbers, the poor to marginal habitat was the first to see a drastic reduction in numbers. Ironically, the overall herd in a specific DMU can be cut in half but the people with the best habitat might not see any reduction in numbers at all. Deer migrate to the best habitat...especially if hunting pressure is minimal.
Less than two miles from my camp you will find large agricultural fields that have all the deer in them that you could ever want or need. At the same time most of the public land that surrounds them (like mine) are becoming virtual deer wastelands.
KPC
That's what I was wondering about. I am surrounded by public land also ,nothing but rolling hills with popple, oak, pine and maple with no ag land. I hunt nothing but public land in Manistee,Lake and southern Wexford counties and have found Wexford to be the worst population wise for deer over the last couple years.
Farm lands connected to public lands. Owned it for 35 years and we have had the best hunting in the last couple years since the APR's started. Can't help what we are seeing guys.
It is what it is Jon.
No animosity on my part other than the fact that some people don't seem to realize that regulations can have vastly different results and affects depending on where you are, what kind of habitat you hunt, and what the hunting pressure is around you.
Conditions can be night and day within the same DMU, oftentimes within the same section.
All I ever wanted to do was hunt deer on my own chunk of dirt. I never wanted to be a farmer, a forester, or a quality deer manager. Still don't.
KPC
We went many years with some pretty crappy hunting but this changed it for us in my area.
We're seeing more deer. Unfortunately just lots of smaller bucks and lots of does.
There has always been good hunting in the area I live in. But it is getting pretty bad now. Never had any problems seeing deer, or killing deer in this area.
deer having a hard time now,,,,, lots and lots of ice, on top of the snow,,,, tree branches down and now here comes 10 inches,,,,,,, lots of does, standing on the back road behind me,,,,,,,, I always have a gun with me now, predator control,,,,,,,,
Someone should clue in the NRC, you can not stock pile deer in some places, talk about some ignorant guys,,,, and its all so they can have their horn porn, in reality,,,,
The UP really needs to separate from the lower,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
I couldn't agree more ground hunter.
Seems to be working in my area of the NW12.
Sorry for the blury pictures.
Whatever happened to just being able to shoot what you want and were happy with. I actually was really happy for my daughter this year first buck just a big fork horn. But someone actually gave her shit over it when we stopped for gas. But she was proud of it. How do you expect APRs to work in the UP mother nature does more damage then hunters do not to mention predators. How about we just get back to hunting enjoying time in the woods, time with friends and family, and quit tiring to tell each other what we have to do.
Anybody that gives a kid crap about their deer is a jerk. I ran into a father and son dropping off the son’s deer a while back at a butcher. (I was dropping off my deer too).... The father was almost apologetic when I greeted them.... saying his son thought the small button buck was a doe. I shook the young mans hand and congratulated him on making a fine shot and providing some very fine venison for his family. His eyes lit up with pride.... and I was proud for him.
Small rack, good meat for a young buck.
Small rack, good meat for a young buck.
I don't know how well the combo-tag APR concept works in the UP. In the 2 areas I have hunted over that last 12 or so years, I have seen lots of younger bucks but I never see any old ones. I don't know if that is happenstance or they just have not existed in those areas. I continue to get my son a combo-tag and I get a regular buck tag.
I am not much for additional government intervention. I believe in shooting what I want, but I also don't see myself shooting a young buck. So, if true APRs like the LP does come our way, I could live with it. I just don't know if they would matter. I do wish the UP would again allow a combo-tag to be used on a doe.
As for shooting what you want - when I bought my land, I told my son that he can shoot whatever he wants regardless of what he has shot in the past. I want hunting to be fun at our place. I don't have enough land to keep bucks and I don't believe my neighbors practice QDM. My dirt is really crappy too and I don't think we'll ever grow big bucks. We rarely (if ever) have seen the current year's 6pts the next season. This year, with my son being away at college, he had 1 weekend to bowhunt. He chose to kill the buck in the picture the 1st sit of the 3 that weekend he would have. Many people would give him crap for doing that but he was happy and proud and so was I and I could give a rat's ass what others think about what we shoot. It turns out that was the only deer we shot this year. We took nothing in the one weekend he had in the gun season.
I passed on a couple young bucks this year. I wish that they would make it a buck/doe cambo or buck/buck combo with the hunter given the choice.