Send this to your Legislature
Contributors to this thread:New York
From: Trial153
08-Feb-19
Absolutely
From: G-MAN
09-Feb-19
Hi Pat, The state of Wyoming Fish & Game are also rethinking the crossbow , the state of Ohio is thinking about reducing doe permits and they only have a nine day gun season.Every bow hunting organization across the country has told it's state game department it's not a bow, and yet we still have bow hunters spending money on every gadget for hunting ,but won't spend $25.00 to join their state bow hunting organization to help fight full inclusion , air bow, etc. Technology will kill the sport. G-MAN
From: Jdawg
10-Feb-19
It’s interesting what short memories people have. I recall similar sentiments when compound “bows” came onto the scene years ago. Do you really believe that compound bows did not dramatically effect the archery kill in any state where they became legal? Me and all my friends hunted (and still do) with recurves and long bows. I’m not sure that at this moment the DEC could even tell you how many deer were killed with crossbow. Maybe some states can isolate those numbers. Regardless, let’s assume crossbows DO account for a large part of the archery kill wherever they’re allowed for the entire season. Do you honestly believe the compound bow didn’t do the same to the archery kill when it was introduced into the archery seasons years ago? Honestly?
Us old recurve guys were gettin it done with a re recurve or longbow cranking MAYBE 180’/sec with a practical range of maybe 20 yards for most kills....zero percent letoff. Now you can go 70% letoff with 370’/sec (PSE Full Throttle) ..pendulum or optical scope, release aids, yadda, yadda and you think a crossbow threatens your game? How many of you compound guys would like to borrow your buddies crossbow for opening week of rifle season? Shouldn’t be much of an impediment if it’s as easy as you seem to imply it is. I see tons of images of relatively small youngsters who’ve scored nice kills with today’s compounds. You can’t tell me the entrance of the compound wasn’t a “sea change” in the sport of bow hunting. I’m saying is this resistance to crossbows seems over blown and kinda hypocritical. The complaints about the crossbow window being the rut is another complaint I hear. So you’re going to tell me if they were to limit crossbows to a single week, say the first week of archery there wouldn’t be a whole new round of complaints? I’m in favor of all of it, live and let live as far as that goes.
From: Trial153
10-Feb-19
Crossbows don't belong in the archery season. Numerous place that have implemented them in archery seasons have seen harvest number increase to the point of incompatibility to length and scope of the intent of archery season.
From: Jdawg
10-Feb-19
But the introduction of (nowadays) 760’/ second compound bows didn’t exponentially increase harvest of deer over that of bow hunters using traditional equipment? Do you believe that?
From: Trial153
10-Feb-19
Exponentially, not even close. Your hung up on speed of the projectile however that isn't a factor. Archery equipment is still drawn and released by the person in the presence of game, not so with crossbows. If that took place with cross bow you'd see similar harvest percentages as archery equipment. They have no place in the archery season.
From: Jdawg
10-Feb-19
Your point is well taken. However, with 70% let off and mechanical release I reckon the draw process can take place earlier and be executed to some extent at the shooters leisure compared to trad equipment.
From: Trial153
10-Feb-19
Absolutely agree. However Statistically the advantage didn't amount to higher percentages of success that weren't not in line with the expectation of the season. That isn't the cases with cross bows in states that have unlimited OTC licenses. So what gives in the equation? Less tags? Shorter seasons? Less Opportunity ? I say put the crossbows in regular season where they belong. Especially in a state like NY that has a regular season that is close to 30 days or longer in the northern zone.
From: archer756
12-Feb-19
Lefemine, 760 fps , please let me know where I can buy this bow. I want to buy a bunch . Just a note that some new bows do up to 350 fps. Some cross bows 400fps an plus.
From: Shawlerbrook
14-Feb-19
I see both sides of this coin, but hate to see hunters fighting each other. Our numbers are dropping at a dangerous rate and I think that we( yes, I don’t even own a xbow) need to compromise if it means more hunters. My idea is that we allow the xbow sometime during bow season, but the hunter has to use their regular season tag( most xbow hunters are gun hunters that now use a xbow to hunt earlier). This would buffer the increased kill rate by having them kill their gun deer with a xbow during xbow season. I also think that the mz season where you can use all your tags does more damage to deer population than the xbow. A few years back the local hunters in Washington County were complaining about the mz hunters killing many deer that yarded up during the late mz season.
From: Trial153
15-Feb-19
crossbows haven't equated to more hunters. Crossbows haven't brought in new hunters. Crossbows have brought gun hunters who had no desire to bow hunt in to the archery season by giving them a weapon that catered to their skill set. If they wanted to archery hunt they would have already been hunting with bows during the archery season.
From: jdbbowhunter
15-Feb-19
True statement Trial, but quite a few bowhunters have switched to crossbows also. Looking for an easier way. Imo.
From: jdbbowhunter
17-Feb-19
Very true statement Pat. How it was years ago. But NY came up with great ideas on how to get more hunters in the woods, sat opening day, youth hunts, crossbows to name a few and all have failed as #s have continued to decline. NY will never be a great deer state in my opinion mainly due to politicans and the insurance lobby. As very little input from hunters is even considered.
From: Silverback
18-Feb-19
Pat Lefemine and the rest of you compound using hypocrites are a self serving lot. Just wait until you are either injured or elderly and you will change your tune.
From: jdbbowhunter
19-Feb-19
Not a compound user or a hypocrite. Across bow is not a bow in no way shape or form. And has no place in Archery season. Question, do you use your crossbow during regular season?
From: pogo
19-Feb-19
TIME OUT!
While you are all arguing about what weapon should be allowed..... and what weapon shouldn't be allowed..... the sport and lifestyle is dying. You guys are NOT helping.
I think we all should be doing everything in our power to encourage new hunters regardless of the tool used and the season it is used in.
I'm getting old. I'm going to be 69 in a couple of months. I've taught my son to hunt and he hasn't hunted in two years now. He's too busy working. His son..... my grandson..... doesn't want to hunt. I've bought him a climbing stand and it sits in my attic collecting dust.
Start working on positive solutions and not this negative crap.
From: Buck Grunt
19-Feb-19
I have mixed feelings about the crossbow but definitely agree that any hunter who has a physical limitation that prevents them from drawing their bow should be able to hunt the entire bow season with a crossbow. All of us will get to that day where we cannot draw our bows back and unless things change, our bow hunting days in New York will be over.
From: Shawlerbrook
19-Feb-19
Pogo, you are a wise man. I couldn’t agree more.
From: Silverback
19-Feb-19
First of all I apologize for being nasty in my post. I seem to have mixed feelings on the subject. I do however support senior and handicap hunters in using a crossbow. At 71 I hunt with a longbow,recurve and compound during archery season. During the regular season I use a crossbow but not exclusively. I have a few senior friends that can not pull a hand held bow. They want to hunt their own land and I can't see who they are hurting by doing so with a crossbow. But like I said it is a complicated issue.
From: jdbbowhunter
19-Feb-19
No need to apologize. I respect peoples opinions. I have no problem with older or handicapped hunters using a crossbow during archery season. And no truer statement that it is a complicated issue. Truth is kids that are going to hunt will hunt. Unfortunately hunting is not a way of life like it was years ago.
From: archer756
20-Feb-19
This sounds to much like our government, Your right I am wrong!
From: Trial153
22-Feb-19
The elderly and disabled have also had crossbow exemptions. I think that fact is a good example of why they shouldn't be used in the archery season by able-bodied individuals.
From: Silverback
22-Feb-19
The elderly are not allowed to use a crossbow during the entire archery season. Disabled hunters can only use them with a breath controlled type trigger. I have a friend that has no arms below the elbow and no legs below the knee and he applied for a handicapped exemption and was denied. I also have senior friends that can not pull a hand held bow and still want to hunt their own land. Could we at least allow seniors and disabled to use a crossbow the entire season? Why would the NYB object to that?
From: Shawlerbrook
23-Feb-19
I agree on the elderly and disabled. They also should be exempt from antler restrictions.
From: tonyotony
03-Jul-19
Along with all the modern-day distractions, another reason we are losing or not recruiting new hunters is that, in many cases, hunting has become a competitive sport. Too many folks are bent on getting the big trophy, and hoping their neighbor/ friend does not. Just look at all the social media posts, magazines, television shows, etc. The love of the hunt has disappeared for many. It's all about the trophy. If you are concerned about what implement someone is using, you are concerned about "the competition".
From: Jim Southwick
05-Jul-19
I have no problem with hunters using crossbows, just as long as they use them during gun season.
From: Petcontain
05-Jul-19
There is no reason crossbows are not allowed during regular archery season. Would I use one? No I will stick with my compound or recurve, my choice.
From: scentman
08-Jul-19
I don't know what the original post was... but I will never deny a fellow hunter his privilege, so long as it is in the legal bounds of the written rules for that season. I understand this is an archery site, and this is a hot topic... you do have good points, but if im using a crossbow miles from you, how does that effect you?
From: scentman
08-Jul-19
From: Trial153
09-Jul-19
Crossbows for the elderly and disabled only during the archery season. Otherwise put them in the regular season where they belong.
From: Petcontain
10-Jul-19
"Crossbows for the elderly and disabled only during the archery season. Otherwise put them in the regular season where they belong." What objections do you have of full inclusion during the Archery Season? They are not much different than a Modern compound.
From: Trial153
10-Jul-19
they are very different then modern compound, if you think otherwise you are fooling yourself or have no experience with them.
From: Jim Southwick
11-Jul-19
Try and see how long you can hold at full draw while holding your sight pin on target. Now compare that to how long you can hold your sight pin on target with a crossbow. That's why I feel that they should only be used during gun season.
From: Mint
14-Jul-19
There was an article by the VP of PSE saying they made a big mistake pushing crossbows since there growth is not coming from rifle hunters but from compound hunters. Now with modern crossbows making 100 yard shots the norm they will decimate the bowhunting ranks and drastically increase the success rates. They compare to muzzle loaders more than they do to compound bows. I think they should make them legal if you are 65 or older but they shouldn't allow scopes.
From: skipmaster1
15-Jul-19
In many ways a crossbow is actually a disadvantage in the woods. The only real advantage I see is that it takes no effort to become proficient. Its for folks that want to hunt bow season without the work. I’m all for older people using it if needed and if they want to allow it for youth then they need to drop the minimum age for hunters and allow for a mentored license.. otherwise average youth of legal big game hunting age can pull 35+ pounds
From: Mint
15-Jul-19
How is the crossbow a disadvantage?
The only thing you need to move is your finger. You can be accurate out to a 100 yards It has a scope You can use a rest to be totally stable.
From: archer756
15-Jul-19
MINT, How is a crossbow compared to black powder. This we got to hear about!!
From: skipmaster1
15-Jul-19
Mint- the crossbow is great for longer range shooting off a rest and for not having to move at the moment of truth.....But.... A competent, dedicated shooter with a compound can shoot about as far as most hunting situations would allow and they can do it without a rest. A guy with a compound could outshoot a guy with a crossbow at 50 yards if both shots were taken in under 10 seconds, standing/freehand. Something often encountered walking to stands. If you miss with a crossbow, you won’t get another arrow loaded but could with a trad or compound bow. With a crossbow you won’t shoot multiple deer out of a group but can with a bow. If a deer is directly behind your tree you can’t shoot with a crossbow but can often lean out just enough with a bow. I’ve killed moving deer with a recurve that I wouldn’t have with a crossbow or probably even a compound. ... I’ve killed a lot of deer with a bow and I bet nearly a quarter of them I couldn’t have with a crossbow. I can’t recall many if any that got away that I would have taken with an cross bow. Mostly they are just for gun hunters that want to shoot long range in archery season and not put in the time to learn archery. Again for old, disabled or young kids, I’m all for it.
From: Mint
16-Jul-19
Sorry Skip, but the VAST amount of shots taken at game are from a treestand or blind. You state conditions above to make your case like walking to the stand etc. The new crossbows are affecting the seasons and like I said above the VP of PSE even admitted that it was a mistake. Let's face it, the vast majority of compound shooters will go for something that is easier to shoot and more accurate out to a hundred yards if they allowed to in bow season. I run a hunter Shoot every year for my archery club, You get points for the ten and eight ring and minus points for everywhere else. Reasonable shoots out to 45 yards on the big animals. I use to have minus 5 points for a wound until I realized a lot of the compound shooters weren't handing there cards in since the scores were so low. They had a lot of wounds. Sure the top five guys didn't have any wounds but the majority had enough that they were embarrassed. Now I make the wound - 2 points and make the shots closer.
Archer756, search Field & Streams magazine website and you will see experts talking how the crossbow is as effective as a cap and ball muzzle loaders.
From: skipmaster1
16-Jul-19
Mint- I agree they are having a negative effect on archery seasons. There are more folks in the woods being more successful more quickly. Numbers show it’s not bringing in lots of new hunters just changing what weapon or season current hunters partake in. Crossbows have no place in Archery seasons. I’m just saying I think a well practiced archer is more efficient at putting meat in the freezer than someone with a crossbow. Most people don’t want to practice though. The scenarios I listed above happen to me every year. Every year I kill a few deer with compound or trad bow that would be 100% impossible with a crossbow.
From: archer756
16-Jul-19
Mint. you must believe everything you read Trust me there is no comparison between crossbow and muzzle loader. they are two different items As too having someone shooting out to 100 yrds with cross bow. As a state instructor we teach that one should be ethical as to what one can shoot as far as distance. Any one that thinks he can shoot and place a ethical shoot at 100 yrds with a cross bow, please bring them on, I would pay to see them place what is an ethical shoot If you question this please talk to any one that is part of deer search and find out how many deer that are NOT shoot in a ethical way, cross bow, compound bow, black powder or any fire arm. Please, there are a lot of shooters that DO HUNT in a ethical way.
From: Mint
17-Jul-19
Archer756, when the VP of PSE says that any competent shooter can shoot the new Ravin crossbow out to a 100 yards I believe it. I agree there are a lot of shooters that are ethical but you just made my point with your deer search answer. Look at any of the 100 yard threads.
From: Petcontain
19-Jul-19
Before the XBow became a hot topic I was in a situation where I had a buck under my tree stand 10 yards away. I was waiting for the buck to move into an open shot for me when I hear clang clang clang as an arrow hit the tree limbs I was in. I got down and another deer hunter said did you see that buck I had to take a shot even though he was 60 yds a way too big a rack to pass up.
"As a state instructor we teach that one should be ethical as to what one can shoot as far as distance."
It is not the tool you use it is what you have in your heart and mind.
From: archer756
19-Jul-19
Here is a fact that we are missing, 98% of rifle hunters can not even shoot and hit targets standing still up to 50 yrds. Yet PSE states their cross bow can shoot to 100 yrds. SALES SALES PITCH !!!! Lets face facts most compound shooters can not shoot and hit what the want out to 50 yards. Go to any 3D shoot and see what the average distance that most shoot wit consistent is 40 yrds. PSE SALES SALES
From: Petcontain
19-Jul-19
I can see putting all firearms into one season because once the first blast is let go the woods change until next year. All archery equipment into a let us call it a quiet season.
This is regardless of recurve longbow compound or cross bow. Rifles shotguns and muzzle loaders together in the noisy season.
From: Al Dente Laptop
20-Jul-19
When PSE introduced the TAC-15 (Tactical Assault Crossbow), which is based upon the lower receiver of an AR-15 rifle in 2009, the Rep at the ATA show, Paul Penix, said how you are really going to enjoy the trigger on this gun, and regarding the 100 yard shots, if you do not want to lose a bolt, do not aim at the same spot twice. Ravin advertises their line of crossbows under the tag line of "Meet your next rifle", and also offers a sniper package. Brandon Hylton of Parker Crossbows last year stated that "We don't want to engineer ourselves out of the archery season." Has anyone ever heard of a compound, recurve, or longbow being referenced along with a rifle? Has anyone ever pre-loaded and pre-drawn their compound, recurve, or longbow and sat with it resting on a shooting rail for the duration of a hunt? Has anyone ever purchased a compound, recurve, or longbow with a scope attached to it? I could go on, but the distinct advantages offered by the crossbow draw a definite line in the sand as to what is archery equipment, and what is not.
From: archer756
20-Jul-19
Petcontain Good point !
From: jdbbowhunter
20-Jul-19
Well said Al.
From: Trial153
20-Jul-19
Agree Al.
From: Petcontain
24-Jul-19
As far as I know it is one bolt or one arrow if it hits the proper mark dead deer. Results are the same...dead deer. If you take a deer regardless of equipment it is a dead deer. If you miss it is still a miss at 15 yards or a 100. If is is archery season you take your deer with your equipment and I take it with my legal equipment what difference does it make? It is a dead deer. Marketing Hype is just marketing hype someone trying to enhance a sale as we all know speed sells in this game.....why else would we have 85 lbs bows with 90% let off?
From: Al Dente Laptop
27-Jul-19
And yet another quote from a crossbow manufacturer that shows the widening gap between archery and crossbows. Directly from the Mission Crossbow webpage about their new SUB-1 crossbow. "Finally, crossbows that are built like a long range, precision rifle."
From: Petcontain
27-Jul-19
This makes me laugh, you anti inclusion guys are hanging on every statement the manufacturer uses in marketing to sell bows. How would our bows are slower, less accurate, not as long range as a rifle and no knockdown power sell?
From: Al Dente Laptop
27-Jul-19
Sorry, but I do not hang on, waiting for the next blurb to emerge, I have fought this fight for over 2o years. My stance is based upon facts, not heartstrings, data, not emotions, the manufacturers ads and statements just help to justify my position. They reinforce what I have been saying for over 2 decades.
From: Petcontain
28-Jul-19
Al what are the facts you are basing your stance on? I would like to know. Maybe they will change my mind.
From: Al Dente Laptop
28-Jul-19
I have had several pieces published over the years in New York Outdoor News, the most recent one was this past November, it also appeared in Traditional Bowhunter magazine. The most basic is that the crossbow is pre-cocked and pre-loaded, that alone offers a distinct advantage over the archer who must and hold when an animal presents a shot opportunity.
From: Petcontain
28-Jul-19
Ok Al I do see your point about being precocked and preloaded, but once you make the shot it hopefully results in obtaining the quarry you were after. Dead Deer. When I let my quarry come into my range be it recurve longbow compound I wait for best shot possible prior to my release. Hopefully results are a dead deer. One reason archery season proceeds gun is so the deer have not been frightened with the kaboom. I do not see this as a problem using a crossbow and crossbow hunters want the same as other archery hunters. Recurve Crossbow Compound Selfbow long bow are all a means of filling your tag. So who cares if someone hunts with a crossbow during archery season has it effected your accomplishments? As long as we are on the subject what other things give "hunters a distinct advantage" Food Plots?
From: jdbbowhunter
28-Jul-19
Anyone that has bow hunter knows the most difficult part is drawing on a deer that is in range, and not being detected. With crossbow its point n shoot. So actually a big differance
From: Petcontain
28-Jul-19
Granted but the idea usually is to use the best weaponry you have to get the most effective clean kill possible. Hence the progression from self bows to longbows to recurves to compound and now crossbows.
From: Mint
29-Jul-19
"Yet PSE states their cross bow can shoot to 100 yrds. SALES SALES PITCH !!!!"
Sorry, you have that all wrong, The VP of PSE had the article on field & Stream's website saying that they MADE A BIG MISTAKE and should never have pushed for the crossbow in regular archery seasons.
From: Mint
30-Jul-19
Mint's Link
Attached is the article from Field & Stream. It is a good read.
From: Petcontain
30-Jul-19
I read the article thanks for posting. It is sort of like hitting a moving target as to should crossbows be given full inclusion. I hunt in one DMU which has left over DMP which they hand out on a first come first serve basis. Dec want deer killed. Good place for full inclusion. I do not want to get into it is not a bow, all you have to do is wait and pull the trigger argument, Dec will most likely favor full inclusion because the hunters are not meeting harvest goals. The manufactures are talking like manufactures, we made a mistake because sales of crossbows have cut into our sales of compounds. Nothing has been done to bring new hunters in. I for see in the future the gun hunting crowd taking some of the archery season because they are more efficient at harvesting deer. The Dec wants this.
From: archer756
30-Jul-19
I just went and bough a DRON for hunting Nothin says that I can not use one. JOKE
From: Buck Grunt
20-Aug-19
Not allowing hunters who have physical disabilities or are just too old to draw a bow back, to use a crossbow during the entire bow season is disgraceful, and this is coming from someone who is not a fan of crossbows.
From: jdbbowhunter
20-Aug-19
Most bow hunters don't have a problem with disabled or older people that cant draw a bow. The problem is with younger people that cant be told no and don't want to practice with a bow and become proficient.
From: Petcontain
20-Aug-19
The bow I shoot, the broad head I use, the gun I use, the caliber I choose is no ones business as long as I follow the law. It is so nice you would grant the old and disabled certain rights, but not some one who chooses a different way than you. Maybe someone just likes a crossbow while I choose to use my recurve or longbow. Who cares it is an individuals right and should be open to all to make up their own mind.
From: jdbbowhunter
21-Aug-19
Very true. But bow season was always for hand drawn bows. So why do the laws have to be changed to include crossbows. Because we now live in a society that no one can be disappointed. So why don't they just open the season up to any type of weapon. then everyone will be happy. And the real truth is it all comes back to the money.
From: Shawlerbrook
21-Aug-19
I think most will agree if you are honestly unable to draw a handheld bow or over a certain age you should be able to use a crossbow during the archery season. When it comes to physically able individuals this is where we differ. Personally the able body people I know that want to use a crossyduring archery just want to expand their gun season and are not willing to put in the time and effort to use a handheld bow.
From: jdbbowhunter
21-Aug-19
I agree with your view, most people don't want to put in the time n effort. And unfortunately that applies to more than this subject.
From: Petcontain
22-Aug-19
What is wrong with this? "Personally the able body people I know that want to use a cross bow during archery just want to expand their gun season and are not willing to put in the time and effort to use a handheld bow." With hunter numbers declining less youth entering the sport why shouldn't we be trying to increase numbers? " So why don't they just open the season up to any type of weapon. then everyone will be happy." if the deer numbers are not controlled this may very well happen. Then what?
From: jdbbowhunter
22-Aug-19
If you think crossbows and youth hunts are increasing hunter numbers , you would be mistaken. And as far as opening a season for all weapons, we already have that. Its called the regular season. But how many guys continue to hunt with crossbow during regular season. Not many would be my guess. Just an observation.
From: Petcontain
23-Aug-19
jdbbowhunter absolutely agree with your assessment...... so why not try to bring more people into archery season? It may just help reach the harvest goals the dec thinks we need to meet.
From: jdbbowhunter
24-Aug-19
Have tried to get younger people interested in archery and hunting. Most I've talked to just don't have any interest. Too many other things to do I guess.
From: Silverback
12-Sep-19
Try holding a recurve or longbow at full draw as long as you do your compounds. There is a huge difference there too but compounds were let into the regular archery season.
From: 8point
12-Sep-19
I've hunted with my compound since the early 80's, and have been able to harvest some nice bucks. I had to have shoulder surgery last November, and am still unable to draw my bow with the draw down to 45#. I'm going to my pro shop tomorrow to see if the bow can be backed off to 35#, the New York legal limit, and maybe I can use it this year. I don't know if I'll ever be able to draw any more than that, and certainly never elk hunt again if I can't. At 75, I feel I've paid my dues, I was a archery hunter safety instructor for years in order that others could enjoy the sport as I do. Should tomorrow prove that I can no longer draw a legal bow, I'm troubled that there are those out there who feel upset that I even have 14 days to enjoy the serenity of the woods during bow season with my crossbow while you have had 5 weeks before that.
From: Petcontain
12-Sep-19
Silverback and 8point great points.
From: 8point
13-Sep-19
My trip to the pro shop proved to be a disappointment. My bow couldn't be let off to more than 45#'s, so I'm finished with my compound this year. I hope that after November, a year after the surgery I will be able to draw my bow again. If not, it's either applying for Wyoming with an X bow, or Colorado with black powder. Either way, I will elk hunt again, and for sure whitetails with Xbow and rifle. Good hunting!
From: 8point
21-Sep-19
Got a band aid fix (no pun intended) to my shoulder problem. Went to Bass Pro and bought a Bear bow beginners model that goes from 25# to 50#. Determined that I could pull 40# without discomfort. Well I decided to start out at 10 yds, however the little bugger zipped arrows through my black hole target. Backed the target out to 20 yds, and that stopped them, but still got 3/4 of the shaft penetrating, so the hunt is on.
From: pogo
21-Sep-19
Good for you! I hope my buddy Ben was the guy who helped you. He is extremely good at tuning a bow to the shooter. Have fun this year!
From: 8point
22-Sep-19
Yes it was Ben, he did a good job.
From: Silverback
31-Oct-19
As previously posted I agree that many of the hunters going to crossbows are compound shooters. They are easier to shoot. After all isn't that why they went to compounds, to begin with, because they are easier to shoot than a recurve or longbow? What bothers me is that many of the same people that went from recurves and longbows to compound ( for an easier way) are the same people that are against crossbows.
From: Silverback
22-Nov-19
Al, I have read your posts and what I am hearing is that crossbows are just plain too easy, therefore offering a distinct advantage over a hand-drawn bow. My question is are you shooting a compound with all of the obvious advantages over traditional bows. Because of those advantages, it is much easier to be consistently accurate as compared to a traditional bow. I shoot both traditional and compound and I can tell you a compound with all the bells and whistles is much easier to shoot accurately. I guess my point is compound shooters have a very distinct advantage over me. Should I complain and insist everyone does it my way? I think not. I am not personally against full inclusion. Everyone has different abilities and physical limitations and I think they owe it to the deer to shoot the bow they are most accurate with. Just my opinion not looking to get into an argument with anyone.
From: Silverback
22-Nov-19
Because of shoulder injuries I had to use my crossbow this year. I can tell you everything up until and then after the shot is the same or worse. Crossbows are loud and it is a 1 shot and done situation. Yes, my precooked crossbow and rail rest adds to the ease of being accurate. ( what i want ) I would rather use my longbow in most situations but at 71 yrs old and 2 bad shoulders I used my crossbow when legal and thank god I could. if not I would be home sitting on the couch missing one of the few seasons I have left.
From: Trial153
23-Nov-19
Crossbows for the elderly and disabled only during the archery season. Hunt with them during the regular season if you want to. Of course you omy see that because they would rather shot a rifle which is the only reason they own a cross bow to begin with.
From: jdbbowhunter
23-Nov-19
This debate will be never ending. But truth is NY State even agrees that a crossbow is closer to a gun than a bow, hence you have to purchase a muzzleloader tag to hunt with one.
From: Shawlerbrook
23-Nov-19
I will say this. Elderly and truly disabled no problem, but I have a bunch of neighbors that never cared about bow hunting until the xbow and now they kill deer just about every year and brag what great archers they are. Just another shortcut for those that do not care to master the sport of archery. Now I am 62 and have seen much change in hunting in general and I am willing to go with the flow as change is inevitable.
From: Al Dente Laptop
24-Nov-19
I shoot a Wes Wallace Mentor recurve. I have shot a compound, rifle, and shotgun in the past, but for over a decade, I have hunted solely with traditional archery tackle, either my recurve, or a one piece longbow that was made by a local bowyer. I am 52 years old. My stance on the crossbow is based on manufacturers statements, as well as those from crossover hunters, who went from firearms to "archery" via the crossbow, and data collected from state game agencies.
From: Silverback
24-Nov-19
Al, Fair enough my apology to you if I offended you.
From: Silverback
24-Nov-19
I will continue to use my longbow but as far as crossbows are concerned it boils down to this to me. I personally am not against full inclusion but I understand why some are. I do however think seniors and handicapped should be allowed to hunt with crossbows the entire season. What are their options? Seniors would have to stay home and miss the few years they have left and handicapped would just not be able to enjoy that time in the woods hunting. What bothers me is having seniors and handicapped stay home would be OK for many of the more fortunate hunters.
From: jdbbowhunter
24-Nov-19
I have no problem with handicapped or seniors. But in my opinion if you can draw a 40+ pond bow. You should hunt with a bow not a xbow because you are too lazy to practice. And this is the case in a lot of instances of people I have talked too.
From: Al Dente Laptop
24-Nov-19
No offense taken.
From: Al Dente Laptop
25-Nov-19
The issue with the "senior and disabled" allowance is that when the Bill was introduced, the were no limitations included, such as age or degree of disability. It stated that the DEC would determine it at a later date. Looking into other states, the age can vary by nearly 2 decades across the country. Also, given the history of the disability aspect, it is a tactic that has been used and abused by the manufacturers and crossover hunters. In Pennsylvania, the pro-crossbow people pushed for a disabled law. They promised the PGC (Pennsylvania Game Commission) that they could expect around 400 applications for a disabled crossbow permit. They received over 43,000. Due to the wording of the law, a doctor's note, over 23,000 disabled crossbow permits were issued. The exact same scenario would play out here in NYS. How many times do you see a "disabled" person park in a handicapped spot, hang the tag off the rear view mirror, then return carrying a heavy or large object, just because the spot is closer to the store and some doctor signed off on their application? A strict standard must be included in any Bill for consideration, not as an after thought, which has been the case. Remember this quote from Nancy Pelosi on ObamaCare: "We need to pass this so we can see what is in it"? A legal bow in NYS has a 35# draw weight, plenty to kill a deer within the NYS average of 12 yards. There are several options, including the Draw-Loc that can utilized via the Modified Archer's Permit.
From: jdbbowhunter
25-Nov-19
Very well stated Al.
From: SteveBNY
25-Nov-19
I'm 68, will continue to use a recurve for most bowhunting as long as I can, and support full inclusion not based on age or ability. What a weapon is classified as does not change by the hand it is held in. It's a bow or it's not. The MAIN reason one shoots/hunts with a compound and not a trad bow is that it is easier to do.
From: Petcontain
25-Nov-19
I totally agree with SteveBNY. IMO I do not see much difference between today's compound and today's crossbow. I know some will argue the rifle stance but there is no powder, casing, bullet or sabot involved. A release on a 90% let-off compound bow is so much similar to a cocked crossbow it is really hard to tell apart.
From: jdbbowhunter
25-Nov-19
Id argue that. Is there a stock,saftey,scope on a compound. And a compound still has to be hand drawn when game is in area. A cross bow can be loaded at truck and carried loaded to stand location and all that has to be done is pull trigger. People can hunt with what they want as long as its legal. But to say a xbow is similar to a compound I have to respectfully disagree.
From: Silverback
25-Nov-19
jdbbowhunter, would you agree that the level of consistent accuracy of a well equipped compound bow is closer to a crossbow than it is to a recurve or longbow.
From: Petcontain
26-Nov-19
JDbbowhunter just continue to fool yourself. Difference Longbow / Recurve to Compound? Difference Compound to Crossbow? And they do put scopes on compounds now.
From: jdbbowhunter
26-Nov-19
I would agree with consistency of accuracy. But still a compound has to be hand drawn and held before taking shot. Not fooling myself at all, both longbow, recurve ,compound all have to be hand drawn n held as stated previously. X bow is loaded,and shot more like a gun. Those are facts . So im not fooled by any of it.
From: archer756
26-Nov-19
also x bows can be shoot from shooting stick.
From: Shawlerbrook
26-Nov-19
Like I said, the issue is not worth arguing, but when we went from recurve/ longbow to compound we didn’t see the massive influx of hunters that never shot a bow or bowhunted before . Also, the compound did not advertise “ rifle-like accuracy at 100 yards “. I shoot a 20 year old compound with a finger tab and no peep and that is miles closer to a recurve/longbow than a xbow. If given the choice of allowing the xbow or going back to the recurve/longbow I would pick ho back, but that ain’t happening.
From: jdbbowhunter
26-Nov-19
I agree Shawlerbrook. The problem some people have with the truth is if it doesn't work for them ,its not the truth.
From: Silverback
26-Nov-19
You folks are the ones always harping on the crossbow being too easy. I feel the same way about the compounds and I from time to time hunt with a compound. I think it's time to go to a 4-week traditional only season and the last 2 weeks mechanical bows such as compounds and crossbows. As you fellows always say just put the time in and learn how to shoot the corresponding bow for each season.
From: jdbbowhunter
26-Nov-19
Unfortunately Silverback that could never happen. No one can be disappointed today. Just the world we live in. And your last statement rings a lot of truth to the fact that people don't want to put time in to become proficient to shoot a hand drawn bow.
From: Shawlerbrook
26-Nov-19
Recurve/longbow 10/1-11/15 and then use whatever floats your boat until11/30. 12/1-12/10 traditional muzzleloader. One buck per year.
From: Silverback
26-Nov-19
jdbbowhunter, you are right it would never fly. Shawlerbrook now there's an idea. Happy hunting guys I was just having a little fun throwing things out there to see what would stick.
From: archer756
27-Nov-19
As was stated x bows can be shoot from a shooting stick , same as any rifle or hand gun that really helps in accuracy more like shooting a rifle !
From: jdbbowhunter
27-Nov-19
Silverback I do like your idea, but aren't we being selfish then? Lmao! I do also like idea of back to one buck a year.
From: Silverback
27-Nov-19
I don't mind one buck per year. It might make the hunters more selective without implementing antler restrictions.
From: Petcontain
27-Nov-19
Lets toss this idea around, since the DEC is having problems filling DMP's in many units allow full inclusion of crossbows BUT first deer with Compound or Crossbow has to be a Doe before shooting a buck.
From: Silverback
27-Nov-19
Petcontain. I can live with that. That certainly would solve the problem with the dmp's.
From: archer756
28-Nov-19
there is something we all forgot to take into this concern $$$$
From: jdbbowhunter
28-Nov-19
Absolutely $$$ is the deciding factor in all of it! Insurance lobbies have more say in hunting rules and regulations than sportsmen do.
