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WI Looking at Reducing Xbow Season
West Virginia
Contributors to this thread:
Jack Whitmrie jr 07-Feb-19
Jack Whitmrie jr 07-Feb-19
Jack Whitmrie jr 07-Feb-19
JayD 07-Feb-19
Babysaph 07-Feb-19
Big-Otis-Jeff 07-Feb-19
JayD 07-Feb-19
Babysaph 07-Feb-19
sundaynwv 07-Feb-19
JayD 07-Feb-19
Jack Whitmrie jr 08-Feb-19
Babysaph 08-Feb-19
Babysaph 08-Feb-19
JayD 08-Feb-19
sundaynwv 09-Feb-19
JayD 09-Feb-19
sundaynwv 09-Feb-19
JayD 09-Feb-19
Babysaph 09-Feb-19
Babysaph 09-Feb-19
Big-Otis-Jeff 10-Feb-19
sundaynwv 10-Feb-19
Babysaph 10-Feb-19
Babysaph 10-Feb-19
hoppies56 10-Feb-19
JayD 11-Feb-19
Babysaph 11-Feb-19
07-Feb-19
See where WI is thinking about reducing the crossbow season because of the high Kill ratio.

07-Feb-19
https://waow.com/news/wisconsin-news/2019/01/25/high-kill-rate-has-dnr-looking-at-changing-crossbow-deer-season/?fbclid=IwAR2iX39B4PqBKqmQqQtdi7kDPiLKvzuWQ0cSWi_uS8ZS8UgxmKzqIL-lL9o

07-Feb-19
Almost a dead ringer of our archery and crossbow seasons.

From: JayD
07-Feb-19
Second year in a row that crossbow kills outnumbered archery kills here. Will be interesting to see if there is any talk about shortening the season or if they even think there is a problem.

Heck there was a post of a video on a certain group’s Facebook page here recently where they are concerned with the way our licenses are setup that we could kill every buck down to the last one here in WV!

From: Babysaph
07-Feb-19
I will bet money it will not happen here. They added a so called Heritage season last month to kill more deer. They want dead deer. Are crossbow kills checked in different than bowkills? How many deer can you kill with a crossbow and compared to other bows?

07-Feb-19
The simple solution is ....................to lower the buck limits. Kill what you want, with whatever is legal, just not 3. Problem solved.

From: JayD
07-Feb-19
It would be interesting to know the breakdown of buck to doe that were killed with each weapon but I haven’t seen that yet.

So BOJ what is the magical number of bucks that should be harvested? It just seems to me like for some - the number of bucks killed is always too many.

From: Babysaph
07-Feb-19
Crossbow guys will have a fit if the season is reduced.,

From: sundaynwv
07-Feb-19
Jayd,

I thought you were against limiting opportunity?

They added a heritage season to sale more licenses early in the year.

From: JayD
07-Feb-19
Gee Sunday - nice of ya to talk to me! Ok to talk to me here but block me in other places! LOL still don’t know what you all are scared of me posting? You can kick me off if I do something wrong but as in the past I would just post numbers or facts - well I guess that sort of says it right there why you block me! ??

Read my post I said since it is the second year of higher percentage of kills over bow kills it would be interesting to see if there was any talk or if THEY thought there was even a problem. THEY meaning our biologist. I trust our DNR biologist and other members in doing the right thing. So you really have members over there concerned about the way WV hunting license are setup that we could end up killing every buck here?

08-Feb-19
They are concerned ( the people are) that too many bucks are being killed by a 100 yard weapon (their words) and reducing the rifle hunters chances .

From: Babysaph
08-Feb-19
Aren't bowkills and crossbow kills the same?. Can I kill the same number of deer with each weapon? How will the DNR kniw if a hunter uses a crossbow or a real bow?

From: Babysaph
08-Feb-19
If the Xbow season is reduced I’d say the real bow season will be reduced too.

From: JayD
08-Feb-19
Crossbows and bow kills are lumped into the same category it looks like for reporting data but when checking in it should be recorded as either a bow kill or crossbow kill. You cannot kill the same number of deer with each weapon - they each have to same limit but it is as a category the way I read. Maybe someone else can explain it better. Heck I am pretty sure same the limit is 3 you could kill 2 with the bow and 1 with a crossbow or vice-versa. The reason it was made a crossbow season and not lumped in to archery season was in my understanding so that if the harvest numbers went up too much they could shorten crossbow season without doing the same to archery season. I may be wrong on that but that is what I was told.

From: sundaynwv
09-Feb-19
Jayd,

You are blocked because I dont need screenshots sent to everybody. You spent time arguing why a 2 buck limit was the way to go and now that we are advocating a two buck limit you are arguing against it.

We arwnt killing any.more deer with crossbow and archery than we were with just archery. Now I'm sure the success rate is higher but we have less hunters. We need hunter recruitment and hunter license sales. I'm just not sure we need to give everything away to get that.

From: JayD
09-Feb-19
Yep you are correct I stated that I was for 2 buck limited several years ago if our biologist thought lowering limits needed to be done. Then data started coming out - you know sunday that data that says less than 1/3rd of 1 percent of WV hunters kill a third buck. Heck statistically its closer to 0 percent than it is even 1! So yea why change it and lose money on a tag?

And Sunday are you a mind reader or have you hacked my phone to know the things you think that I do? Because I hate to tell you this depending on which one you are - you're not very good at it. Oh I will have discussions with others on topics in your group - but screen shots. Oh I did receive a video that was posted on your page - someone told me it was posted because on another facebook page I ask one of your members what research they were making their claims off of. Funny that the video posted by one of your members - makes the claim that with how WV sells hunting licenses that every single buck in WV - down to the very last buck could be killed! Oh and then they state they will have the research that proves it at the meeting on the 24th - I am so going to try to be at that meeting now to see this research! Then that member's spouse posted about the mass killing of bucks taking place in WV. Seriously that is where this debate has gotten to? I completely understand why you have blocked me and you can keep saying it is because I have done this or that (all of your assumptions have been wrong on things I have done by the way) the reason you block me is because I post data which just doesn't jive with your group's stance AND ALL THAT JAZZ! LOL those last 4 words came from the video. The old mass killing scheme - is that the stance of BBM now?

From: sundaynwv
09-Feb-19
Don't be confused into believing a post is a stance.

From: JayD
09-Feb-19
Sorry just thought that since one of your administrators posted it - that is something that you all were believing in now.

So one more question - I was going to ask you this in private but since you brought up that I sent screenshots to everyone was the reason I was banned - even though I did post ONE of your comments about I should just stick with staying with certain other facebook pages and other forums because the guy thought it was good advertising gets me banned. I am just asking this so others would know your criteria for banning people (oh and JR was asking about Wall of Shame) so killing two bucks in the bow only counties and getting fined - is A ok and you won't get banned in you better buck management group. So again to clear it up - poaching a second buck in a one limit bow only county gets you in a better buck management group and you can even be an administrator but taking a screenshot and posting - BAM you are kicked out?

On to the original point of this thread - I remember reading articles from both OH and PA that the concern was not so much the annual harvest of deer as a whole but the big concern was the increase in the buck kill before gun season caused by the additions of crossbows into archery season. It was my understanding they quite a few gun hunters were complaining about it.

From: Babysaph
09-Feb-19
Well I wouldn't rely on people giving the correct info on the check in. The dnr knows the crossbow kills are up just because the number of bow kills suddenly jumped up.

From: Babysaph
09-Feb-19
I apologize if I made a wrong assumption. I assumed the number of deer killed with a bow jumped up when crossbows were allowed. If it didn't then the DNR will not reduce the season.

10-Feb-19
I would like to see this data you speak of JayD on why 2 buck limit with APR wont work. The data we need and will never get is...........How many people would not shoot the 1st buck they see if they knew they had 1 tag only or the 2nd had to be an APR bucK? I bet lots of bucks would get past on.

And if statistically 0% shoot a 3rd buck, i know of 5 people that did last year, why even have it? Its a money thing.

From: sundaynwv
10-Feb-19
No killing two bucks in the bow only county is not fune with me. Yes, learning a valuable lesson and turning the page while trying to give back and make amends for wrings is perfectly.fine with me. An admin in the BBM site, was convicted if exceeding the legal limit in Logan County in 2013. He played his dues and learned a valuable lesson. Yes, I personally gave the man a chance because its a wildlife violation and can be moved on upon. Sorry, but its not the same degree as say a violent felony.

He learned his.lesson and its not.mine or your place to judge. Fines paid. Lesson learned. Move on. It surely didnt bother the dnt when the man was almost solely responsible for a gigantic check being written out to them for habitat improvement on Lewis Wetzel, which would have NEVER happened without him. He also opened up a branch of QDMA in WV.

From: Babysaph
10-Feb-19
I know of 5 guys that shot 3 nicks too so the stats have to be off or someone isn't checking deer.

From: Babysaph
10-Feb-19
Well once again I'll have to remind you guys that a buck reduction won't can't hapoen because of money. Thwy will not reduce the crossbows either. They want dead deer. I'd the were worried about the deer herd the would not have added a January season All done for money.

From: hoppies56
10-Feb-19
As much as i would love to see WV go to a 1 buck. I must agree Babysaph way too much money to be lost .

From: JayD
11-Feb-19
First off JR and BOJ - if you know 5 people who shot 3 bucks - did they turn them in? If they did - then there is no problem and they are in that small fraction of 1/3rd of 1% who do so. If they didn't check them in then they are not legal hunters and are poachers and it is a poaching problem and not a limit problem.

As to data BOJ. Its right in front of you. The average age of a buck killed in Wv is now 2.5 if I remember reading correctly. I believe the percentage of 1.5 year old bucks in WV is somewhere around 30% now and one year not too long ago it was in the mid 20's if I recall. I don't think many states have much lower percentages than that on 1.5 year old bucks being killed. Pretty sure that has dropped from like 70% over the past few years. And remember - you said it yourself - things are better now then what they were 10, 5 and yes even just 2 short years ago! So if we are pretty much in the same ball park now with those one buck limit states you always talk about - in the percentage of 1.5 year old bucks that we kill - you really think dropping the limit is going to drop the percentage anymore?

Now lets go by your 2nd buck with APR theory - so 2.5% of hunters kill a second buck. Maybe I am wrong but I think guys who kill a second buck - some probably shoot a bigger buck on the second one than what they do on their first buck and I am sure some don't. So even though it is not the case where all second bucks are young bucks -and I think the percentage would be even way lower - ok you got me man so 2.5 percent of guys shooting a second young buck might stop!

From: Babysaph
11-Feb-19
Don't know if they checked them in or not but I'd say they didn't otherwise there would be more people recorded that killed 3 deer.

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