2019 sheep-goat brochure
Colorado
Is up on the CPW website. Let the scheming begin! :)
Thanks for the heads-up.
Hopefully they'll get the harvest report posted before the draw deadline.
unit 42 no longer a archery only unit B.S
wonder how many guys are gonna pony up for the weighted points or if the influx of newcomers last year will stay in the game.
Mathews shooter after the debacle of archers in there a couple years ago I can see why 42 went to a rifle hunt.
Loss of archery opportunity is BS just some guys didn't play by the rules doesn't mean everybody doesn't
And there's no reason why the division can't close the bicycle path like you did when the bears were in there. I think CBA and the bighorn society should have been on top of this one
The problem was a youth shooting multiple ewes before killing one and CPW having to finish the ram hunters ram off after it was running around with an arrow sticking out of it.
Total BS! Just the total number of archery tags versus rifle tags is rediculous! Love how any new opportunity is always a rifle hunt. There should be archery tags in every unit and only offer rifle tags if they needed to after the archery hunt. Also should give any rut hunt to archery instead of the late rifle hunts.
Did I read right? A previous year big game license is no longer a qualifying license to enter the draw? I thought the small game, combo, turkey were just going to be additional options.
I've watched my weighted points mean nothing for too many years. Not about to pay for more! :-0
Just for fun (with a little point being made as well). Based on 2017 tag numbers and success rates, if we made all bighorn ram tags archery tags, there would be 230 more archery tags and 71 more total people could hunt rams.
Man some of you guys are behind the curve.
Or they could make them all rifle and only give out a few. Maybe some of you should look at other states that don't give a single archery sheep tag.
I'm certainly not advocating for making all ram tags archery. Just showing that bowhunting is a great way to create maximum opportunity from a limited resource.
They have to have years worth of archery harvest data on these to get a reasonable idea of success %. Undershoot that estimate and give out a few late rifle tags if archery hunters don't reach a kill quota. This would allow for a few more tags to be given out with lower harvest numbers. The way draw odds are now, I bet a lot of people would jump at an opportunity for a late Ram tag if they were called upon. Am I missing something here?
"Man some of you guys are behind the curve."
Not sure what you mean by that?
"Man some of you guys are behind the curve." Not sure what you mean by that?"
"Did I read right? A previous year big game license is no longer a qualifying license to enter the draw? I thought the small game, combo, turkey were just going to be additional options."
The increases have been the topic of conversation for several months, some are just catching up.
"Man some of you guys are behind the curve." Not sure what you mean by that?" S42 was a rifle tag last year also, nothing has changed...
It was archery all through the 70's
"The increases have been the topic of conversation for several months, some are just catching up."
Ahhh, I see. Yeah, none of this is a surprise but most don't pay much attention and are taken by surprise.
Is it just me or did they hide the harvest locations and horn measurements somewhere? I swear they disappeared. Yes, I know 2018 hasn't posted yet and will probably post 2 days before the draw. Thanks in advance if you have a link.
They got rid of them after the governor's tag holder cried about his private land ram location getting posted. It's amazing the pull some people have over the CPW. My guess is we won't see them anytime soon or ever again.
Thanks, Orion. "So are we chasing banana horns and 5/8 curls or more mature rams?" "Call the unit biologist or conservation officer" will be the response. I'm sure they'll be sick of this come April. You can do your research through calls or believe the hunting grapevine.
I'm filing a FOIA request.
Aren't all rifle tags good for archery hunting as well? If they added 4 or 5 archery hunters for every rifle tag....assuming success of 20-25% imagine the overcrowding complaints.
Orion- That's the second time I've seen you make this claim- "They got rid of them after the governor's tag holder cried about his private land ram location getting posted. It's amazing the pull some people have over the CPW." I asked before and I'll ask again please give me more details. I actually heard it was the moose harvest locations that stirred the pot and caused the info to be taken off the CPW site. I guess we'll know more once Glunt files his FOIA request.
Sandbrew I sent you a private message on the rmbs site back when you first asked. There is also a thread over on monstermuleys right now about it in the Colorado forum.
What do we have to do for a FOIA request?
Orion- As I replied on the RMBS site via PM "The stats disappeared before they harvested that ram."
I'll see if we can at least ask them to put the horn data back up.
Sandbrew
If you're referring to the Open Records Act, about requesting public information - see link
I have all the sheep horn/location files from 2010-2017. But obviously no 2018 data. And I didn't save any goat or moose files. But if anyone wants the sheep files pm me with your email address and I'll send them to you.
I decided not to file a FOIA request. At $30.00 per hour I decided to put that money into some nachos and a brew tonight. I may file when I draw my tag which should be soon since I have some weighted points...
I've been all over this since the brochure was printed and I started my research. Below is the response I have received from CPW.
Thank you for contacting us at Colorado Parks and Wildlife. I understand that you are inquiring about when the harvest location report will be posted back on the website.
The Sheep/Goat/Moose Harvest locations and harvest data is expected to be posted back on the website mid-March. The draw will open March 1st and the deadline is Tuesday, April 2nd at 8:00 pm MST.
Please let me know if you have any questions and thank you for your inquiry.
Kind Regards, Michelle
That's great news, thanks for pinging them.
Ryan - you and I must be on the CPW hotline. I also emailed asking about the horn/antler measurements. No reply yet for me
I also asked what the reasoning for the 'opt out' was. No reply on that either
They figured out who you are, cnelk! Put you on the auto-no response line:-)
Here is the reply on the horn/antler measurements:
Thank you for contacting Colorado Parks and Wildlife. The Horn/Antler and Harvest Location Statistics were taken off of the website due to some serious inconsistencies and inaccuracies within the reports. The reports are being updated and corrected before being placed back on the Hunting Statistics website. The most recent estimate I have heard for getting those back up is mid March.
Remember for you guys that draw a sheep or goat license there will no longer be a CPW Sheep and Goat Orientation as in the past. THe CPW will develope an "online" orientation or maybe a CD presentation. The reason, the cost of the annual orientation was becoming too expensive,( room rental, food, vendors, etc,) and less than half of those that drew attended the orientation, etc.
my best, Paul
Good thing CPW started charging these point fees for sheep and goat so they wouldn’t have to spend it all on an orientation...
Would hate to see any money collected from hunters used for anything for hunters!
"The Horn/Antler and Harvest Location Statistics were taken off of the website due to some serious inconsistencies and inaccuracies within the reports."
Well that was true, a few of the gps coordinates for the moose hunt I went on did not line up with the verbal description of the spot, at all. And I just plugged in a sheep coordinate that landed 50 miles outside the unit!
But when I checked my moose in the guy was very thorough and pulled up an onscreen map and had me point exactly where the kill was, and compared it to what I had given them. But there is always room for a typo when the summary document is created, I guess.
In any case, great to hear that they will put the stats back up on the website!
After a call into CPW, it all has to do with harvest locations on private land. I would hate for one of our BSAP properties to post a harvest on a section of the ranch that the public guy could not hunt...
I hate to be so cynical but this just reeks of insider shady activity.
Sandbrew he has killed multiple Rams on private as has his daughter that is what caused the fuss not just last year's ram.
Orion, I now know who we are talking about and they are good people. They've done a lot for the sheep. I sure wouldn't want people knowing the quality of animals I had on a specific piece of private ground. I see their argument and respect it.
"I sure wouldn't want people knowing the quality of animals I had on a specific piece of private ground." The animals are the states, not the landowners. Should be public information, no matter how good the people are, it has nothing to do with property of the state.
Grasshopper X 2.
I am a strong proponent of private property rights as well as being a strong proponent of wildlife being the responsibility and under the protection of the people of the state in which they live.
One private land owner certainly should not impact public information of providing harvest data for these three species across the entire state.
" One private land owner certainly should not impact public information of providing harvest data for these three species across the entire state."
Treeline, I think we all agree with this statement. On our family farm in KS, which is 99% land privately owned, we are very quiet about what we have on our land when it comes to whitetails. No one around us knows what we see, when we harvest, etc. Loose lips sink ships.
I hunted one of the three species with an outfitter a few years back. We did some hunting on private ground. If I harvested on private ground, I wouldn't have been surprised if they would have kindly asked me to put a different harvest location to protect their intel of the unit. I wouldn't blame them. I mapped multiple locations of the unit on GoogleEarth and had a blast doing it. I have benefited from this harvest information and future hunters should too.
How much is a 195-200" ram worth? A lot. To quote my former neighbor who was a convicted poacher, "A man can cover a lot of ground in camo with a bow." (He was from Arkansas originally, shocking). I'm sure a lot of you have elk and mule deer honey holes that you've spent years finding and if someone knew your spot, you'd be screwed. I sure wouldn't want other hunters off-setting my ground or sneaking-in when temptation gets the best of them. Yes, they are the state's animals but what happens within the law on private ground should remain private. Just don't throw the baby out with the bathwater and apply the withholding of information for all harvest locations that are on public lands.
Kscowboy don't worry not many guys have 60,000 dollars for trespass fees.
I'm curious why a landowner would be so concerned about information regarding rams harvested on their private land when the land is off limits to public hunters? Also, the state owns and has jurisdiction over wildlife...not landowners! If the CPW has coohoonies they would tell the landowner it's public information since the state owns the wildlife found on his land!
You would think huh Jims. Amazing the pull certain people have. I guess when you have enough money to be able to sue CPW, they cower
If I was a landowner with huntable record class sheep, I would tell everyone. Your land value would skyrocket.
I'm hoping this email exchange below clears up the misconception that the stats where removed because of a complaint by any one person.
Sandbrew
----Original Message----- From:[email protected] To: SandbrewXXXXXXX Sent: Thu, Feb 21, 2019 10:44 am Subject: Re: Harvest stats and location reports missing?
The action was not based on a complaint. Per statute and policy CPW cannot release information about activity on private land. The measurement and location reports were not consistent with those directives. The reports are in the process of being reformatted so that they are in compliance and will be re-posted as soon as possible. The current ETA for those reports to be back online is mid March but they'll be up earlier if they are available earlier.
XXXX XXXXX 6060 Broadway, Denver, CO 80216 [email protected]
On Thu, Feb 21, 2019 at 10:22 AM sandbrewXXXXXXXX wrote: Hi XXXX-
Can you shed any light on the reason or what prompted this removal of the stats? I can't believe the Co AG was looking at the stats and said this private land location info is a violation so take it down. Do you know if it was it based on a single complaint by a landowner, outfitter or specific hunter? Someone posted this and it seems factual, accurate and believable.
"I was told by CPW that the CO Attorney General asked them to take the stats down and removed the locations and other harvest data for private land. Apparently, this is a violation of state statute - go figure. I was told prior years data will also be revised for the same reason."
Also I think there is a goal of getting the revised stats back up by mid March?
There's not much else going on in the hunting world right now so people have plenty of time to find things to complain about. The application fees increase seems get most of the Internet chatter but there is a small group of disgruntled "stats hounds" looking for stats before they apply.
Thanks
Sandbrew can the raffle or auction Hunter hunt that ranch on public years ?
I'm not sure how that would work. Here's my guess- The auction and raffle tag would be valid in the unit but just like for any other tag for any species the tag holder must have permission to hunt the private land. For example the public had 2 tags on the now Trinchera Ranch AKA S-65 the year I had the raffle sheep tag I asked and was denied permission to hunt the ranch.
Sandbrew
Sandbrew something still feels fishy I mean they have had private harvest locations up for 10+ years and now it is a big deal? Yeah I'm sure some CPW employee looked at the harvest stats and decided to take them down because it had private land harvests on them. I'll stick with what I heard and also got reiterated at the sheep show. There is no way CPW pulled years of stats off their website on their own doing.
I often wonder if these aution/raffle rams count against the private allotment of tags from the big game access agreement on this particular ranch. I'm sure the landowner financially benefited from those tags....
I'm sure the private tag this year will sell for a large sum and result in a ram pushing upper 190's-200.... not to mention if someone uses another auction tag there... putting the private vs public allotment way out of proportion...
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...
Yeah no kidding in this thread alone CPW gave multiple reasons why they were taken down
Less than 13 days from the draw and we still are yet to see harvest data...
CPW refuses to respond to inquiries on the topic. What a joke...
Here's a curiosity: The 2018 goat harvest data shows 1 billy was taken in G08. The horn measurement file shows a NANNY taken in G08 was killed in Monte Cristo Creek, which I'm pretty sure is in G10. I wonder what other errors are in these reports....
If I'm reading them right, goats have 2 left and 2 right circumference measurements. I think they meant length for 2 columns :^)
The goat stats are not accurate at all.... there are kills in G12 with I believe G16 locations and vice versa...
The whole process is frustrating. Rifle hunters appear to have double the number of units that archers have available to apply for. If a rifle hunt exists in the unit then there should be opportunity for an archery hunt as well. With 20 years of applying and never drawing it is incredibly frustrating hearing that a hunter has drawn multiple tags. Some species should be one and done. Good luck everyone on the draw.
Elk Dog- You have it backwards archers can apply for every unit. Rife hunters can only hunt rifle units. This time next week we should have results. Good luck to all! Sandbrew
I do agree with elk dog that those tags should be once in a lifetime. Especially for non residents!
Sandbrew- I don't have it backwards. I am aware that archers may apply in ANY unit but the majority of those are RIFLE tags. I am referring to a desire to have an equal number of Archery Only Tag units. I do not feel that we should be required to compete with rifle hunter. Good luck
Have to get a tag before you can compete - or sit on the sidelines waiting to get in the game. Your choice.
Elk Dog- Most of the rifle tag units are only 1or 2 tags so the competition is really not that great. Find unit you want to hunt an put in for it. If you draw take your bow leave you rifle at home. Or buy some bighorn sheep raffle tickets win that and hunt every unit after everyone else is done.
The complaint I have is making a archery-only unit s42 into a rifle unit. Or once the numbers are down to management numbers the rifle hunters don't get to leave as we were promised in s32
