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Letter to the Governor RE: BGSS
Colorado
Contributors to this thread:
Stix 16-Apr-19
Grasshopper 16-Apr-19
Grasshopper 16-Apr-19
Jaquomo 16-Apr-19
Dirk Diggler 16-Apr-19
Treeline 16-Apr-19
fubar racin 25-Apr-19
Ski-Skin 26-Apr-19
txhunter58 26-Apr-19
txhunter58 26-Apr-19
Turkey1 26-Apr-19
Treeline 26-Apr-19
Glunt@work 26-Apr-19
Turkey1 26-Apr-19
Treeline 27-Apr-19
Turkey1 27-Apr-19
Jaquomo 27-Apr-19
Jaquomo 27-Apr-19
fubar racin 27-Apr-19
From: Stix
16-Apr-19
Folks, I am writting the following letter to our governor regarding the BGSS. Please copy paste it, use it as a basis for an email, but write something voicing your opposition to the governor about the way things are going with CPW regarding BGSS, we need to stem this attack on archery by CPW. Also suggest any improvements to the letter via PM if necessary

Hon. Gov. Polis,

I am writing this email today to bring your attention to a mistake of epic proportions that is being made by one of the governmental agencies within the Department of Natural Resources, specifically Colorado Parks and Wildlife.

Every 5 years, the staff develops the Big Game Seasons Structure which determines seasons, length, and timing of the various big game hunting season. This is a lengthy process, encompassing feedback from all stakeholders in its development. However, this year, the staff of Colorado Parks and Wildlife is “guiding” the discussion so that there is an extra focus on the early hunting seasons that occur in late August and through September. Within this time frame is the archery deer, elk; muzzle loading deer, elk; as well as bear seasons. CPW staff are guiding a discussion on how to deal with the popular archery seasons, which is the only hunting method that is having steady growth by youths, adult, women and men. There has, and it appears there will be a steady decline in hunting nationwide, which will manifest itself with less funding through hunting licenses and through Pittman-Robinson funding through the US Fish and Wildlife Service.

Because of archery hunting’s growing popularity, this season has seen a tremendous number of hunters participating, thus the CPW staff has undertaken an initiative to resolve what they perceive as hunter crowding during this time period. Unfortunately, CPW is guiding the discussion to limit archery hunters, either by time in the field or by limiting licenses. Their response is problematic because what they fail to realize is that they are also limiting the only method of hunting that is recruiting new participants, specifically youth, women, and minorities. If we want to stem the decreasing numbers of hunters, and avoid a catastrophic result to conservation, we must promote and secure the methods have been successful in recruiting these groups, and new participants by increasing opportunities for this method of hunting, this cannot be accomplished by restricting it.

It seems that Colorado Parks and Wildlife, and the staff responsible for the 5-year big game season structure are taking an approach that is not consistent with proper big game conservation and management. The have a perception of crowding, so their answer is to LIMIT opportunity, not expand it. This goes against practical common sense.

EXAMPLES of other outdoor recreation correctly dealing with increased participation can be found in the Ski industry. The number of participants is growing, and slopes are getting crowded, they do not put forward a long-term solution to limit the number of skiers. They petition for an EXPANSION of there ski slopes to accommodate this increase in numbers. Any business or entity will fail if they seek to LIMIT the number of participants that provides their funding.

Colorado Parks and Wildlife’s to the solution is not very well thought out and will cause hunting numbers of a popular method to be limited in such a way that it will cause further harm to the hunting heritage. One of their proposed solutions is to shorten the archery season due to the overcrowding, which will cause even more congestion with more people in a shorter time period. Not very smart.

Colorado Parks and Wildlife should be looking to increase participation by youth, minorities, and women. Since archery is the method of choice for these groups, due to its inherent skill requirements and heritage, the only way to achieve this is to promote archery as a priority method of take, and increase opportunity to its participants.

Gov. Polis, you have shown wisdom in your picks for head of Dept. of Natural Resources, and your appointments to the Colorado Parks and Wildlife Commission. It shows your dedication to hunting and conservation. What is going on at Colorado Parks and Wildlife is neither smart nor beneficial to wildlife conservation or hunting. I ask that you intervene in this process because the staff charged at CPW with this season setting process are not acting in a smart way or in the best interest of hunting. I ask that with your intervention, that you review the process for setting big game seasons which is now under way and offer guidance or change the staff charged with this effort if necessary, in order to achieve proper wildlife and hunting management. CPW has drifted away from this and it needs to be corrected. With Regards,

From: Grasshopper
16-Apr-19
Steve,

I know you get fired up, but we have not even seen what the recommendations for season structure on paper yet. I talked to Mcdaniels today, it put my mind at ease. I would wait on this, but that is just me. Give me a call if you care to talk 970-222-2492

Personally, I think we need to lay off the talk about growth. It is a couple percent annually but we don't want folks using that as a basis to split the season.

Appreciate your enthusiasm, but be careful with this.

From: Grasshopper
16-Apr-19

Grasshopper's embedded Photo
Grasshopper's embedded Photo
Not sure how this will come out very viewable...this elk data provided to us on I think Jan of 2018. I am trying to reconcile this data, over the weekend CPW showed us lower numbers...like 40,000 total. I think this data might be licenses sold, not unique hunters. Still working on resolution.

If you look, 2nd combined has more elk hunters, in far fewer days afield. Guys might express archery crowding anxiety, but that nothing compared to 53,000 to 67,000 jammed into one short rifle season. If you look at this we have more "elbow room" than they do by a long shot.

From: Jaquomo
16-Apr-19
Stix, it's clear you are passionate and thats good. But this is the wrong direction to take it, since Governor Polis knows nothing about hunting (as far as we know). Your letter will simply be passed on to CPW staff. As Steve notes, nothing has been proposed yet.

When you write to decision makers, its best not to accuse them of being "not very smart" and do it over and over. They are pros who work for the Governor and he will seek their guidance, not yours. How would you react if someone off the street wrote you a letter telling you your best employees are stupid and making bad decisions. Circular file...

From: Dirk Diggler
16-Apr-19
I've spoken with Jaquomo and have listened to Grasshopper speak, two good advocates for our sport with even keels. You'd be wise to heed their advice styx. I think one of the last things we want is involving our new governor and his animal loving partner. Nobody's questioning your passion, that's for damn sure!

From: Treeline
16-Apr-19
Stix,

Many of us are very concerned with the way it looks like things are going. I think that Steve and Lou are offering good advice.

The crowding issues in archery have more to do with all of the rifle seasons that keep getting put into what used to be archery. This seems to continue to be overlooked. Rifle bear, rifle elk, and rifle deer seasons on top of archery seasons competing for the same animals and rifle sheep and goat in the high country.

Let’s see how things go over the next few weeks.

I hope that CPW will be more positive for their final BGSS recommendations.

Please keep us informed on what is going on, and thank you for all your hard work Steve.

From: fubar racin
25-Apr-19
Anything said to our governor falls on deaf ears sadly.....

From: Ski-Skin
26-Apr-19
The Govornor and his partner are anti hunting. He stated he wanted the CPW to be funded by the state and hunting could take place on private land. This would take hunters as the only management out of the equation. He also appoints the commissioners, the CPW is making bikers and hikers pay to use any state parks.

And with the commission, once they have their "recommendations" out there they will be very hard pressed to change their minds.

Treeline you forgot Rifle Muzzleloader season. The intention was to have muzzleloader season be a primitive weapon. However with the advances now these Muzzleloader rifles can shoot as far as most would have 15 years ago and with as or better accuracy.

From: txhunter58
26-Apr-19
I would agree with you on muzzleloader in places like Utah, where they can use variable power scopes and sabots. But it’s rare to find someone who can stretch a muzzleloader accuracy much beyond 150 yards with Colorado regs (open sights, conicals, etc). Lots of people claim to be able to but in reality real long range/ open sight shooters are rare.

From: txhunter58
26-Apr-19
I would agree with you on muzzleloader in places like Utah, where they can use variable power scopes and sabots. But it’s rare to find someone who can stretch a muzzleloader accuracy much beyond 150 yards with Colorado regs (open sights, conicals, etc). Lots of people claim to be able to but in reality real long range/ open sight shooters are rare.

From: Turkey1
26-Apr-19
I agree with TX hunter. So many restrictions on current muzzleloading in Colorado that anything over 100 yds for the majority of shooters is tough.

I have several modern muzzleloaders and you are severely handicapped in Colorado. Not near as an effective weapon as most states. Not complaining. Just speaking what my experience is.

From: Treeline
26-Apr-19
I have some buddies from AZ that would totally blow you away with what they can do with custom built to meet the Colorado regulations muzzle loaders. I would say those guys would be able to beat most high power rifle shooters at long range with their Colorado legal muzzle loaders. Won’t even tell you how far they have killed deer during muzzle loader season with that setup, but will say that it’s much further than I have ever shot anything with a high power rifle. And I have made some really long pokes with made for long range rifles...

From: Glunt@work
26-Apr-19
I'll echo Treeline. With a little research and practice, its pretty amazing what the effective range can be with a modern in-line and Colorado legal sights.

I shoot a .54 cal roundball Hawken knockoff (Lyman Great Plains kit built) with FF blackpowder. Farthest I ever taken something was a muley at 121 yards. A modern in-line with some load development, a good projectile, consistent powder charge, the right sighting system and practice is effective well beyond that.

It is rare. Most guys I see are shooting their in-line as it came out of the box. They are more reliable and consistent than my throwback set-up but not a terribly big range advantage.

From: Turkey1
26-Apr-19
While that maybe true it would be extremely difficult to achieve what your speaking of with Colorado rules and very very few people even would know how to accomplish it.

Yes custom muzzleloaders can kill out to 700 yds or so. I know all about them. I’ve been tinkering with modern muzzleloaders for years. Got two custom builds myself.

You are telling me you know guys in arizona that are shooting black powder substitutes (not smokeless powder) and conicals at the distance accurately?

From: Treeline
27-Apr-19
Yes. With open sights as well.

From: Turkey1
27-Apr-19
That is impressive.

Really the open sights part limits most people to about 150 yards maximum. Even with scopes the vast majority of muzzleloader hunters won’t shoot past about 250 yds.

From: Jaquomo
27-Apr-19
Most bowhunters swear they won't shoot past 40-50 yards, tops, at animals. But we had to install a 100 yard range at our club.....

From: Jaquomo
27-Apr-19
DP.

From: fubar racin
27-Apr-19
Outside of scopes Colorado muzzy regs are built for long range, problem is I don’t know of a current production muzzleloader that has a barrel designed to capitalize on Colorado’s regs. Reach back to when technology was built around big lead and you can absolutely reach out a looonnnngggg ways with a smoke pole.

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