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Elk apps down this yar?
Colorado
Contributors to this thread:
Aspen Ghost 21-Apr-19
Grasshopper 21-Apr-19
txhunter58 21-Apr-19
Dirk Diggler 21-Apr-19
swampokie 22-Apr-19
JRABQ 22-Apr-19
Dirk Diggler 23-Apr-19
txhunter58 23-Apr-19
cnelk 23-Apr-19
Turkey1 23-Apr-19
cnelk 23-Apr-19
Ucsdryder 23-Apr-19
Turkey1 23-Apr-19
Vanish 23-Apr-19
Turkey1 23-Apr-19
cnelk 23-Apr-19
sticksender 23-Apr-19
Turkey1 23-Apr-19
Adventurewriter 23-Apr-19
sisabdulax 24-Apr-19
CO Oak 24-Apr-19
Dirk Diggler 24-Apr-19
Aspen Ghost 24-Apr-19
Longcruise 24-Apr-19
Dirk Diggler 24-Apr-19
Brun 25-Apr-19
Longcruise 25-Apr-19
From: Aspen Ghost
21-Apr-19
I'm just wondering what the impact of the required small game permit was on NR elk app numbers this year. Has CPW published the app numbers yet? Up, down or about the same?

From: Grasshopper
21-Apr-19
They were down, no species breakdown yet. They wanted a drop for sheep, moose & goat. More info to come in May.

From: txhunter58
21-Apr-19
My prediction:

Apps down (a little)

Money collected up (a lot)

From: Dirk Diggler
21-Apr-19
^^^^Bingo!^^^^^

From: swampokie
22-Apr-19
My prediction bear and muley apps up up up

From: JRABQ
22-Apr-19
NM required a non-refundable license to apply this year, and yet there was a record number of applicants, don't know the breakdown.

From: Dirk Diggler
23-Apr-19
"NM required a non-refundable license to apply this year, and yet there was a record number of applicants, don't know the breakdown."

Our biggest increase last year was the big 3 as they didn't have to front the cost of the license to apply, only a $3 app fee. This year there's a $50/$100 pp fee. Our overall apps will be down compared to last year. Deer/elk/antelope will probably remain essentially the same.

From: txhunter58
23-Apr-19
I know quite a few people who applied last year for elk and deer that didn't this year due to the increased cost. I think they will be down noticeably from last year.

From: cnelk
23-Apr-19
There was a 13.7% increase in Elk apps from 2017 to 2018. 1.3% increase from 2016 to 2017

There was a 14.3% increase in Deer apps from 2017 to 2018. 3.7% increase from 2016 to 2017

From: Turkey1
23-Apr-19
I think the trend you are going to start seeing is hunters, mostly non-residents like me, dumping there points and getting out of this scheme and not coming back to the preference point system.

Me and all my buddies have already discussed we are using the points we got and simply not applying again unless we are guaranteed to draw with a couple points or less. Too expensive to mess with the current system anymore. I've got WAY better things to do with my money than blow $300-$500 a year on preference points and applications in several states. Like actually putting that money towards a real hunt every year! Furthermore we see the writing on the wall. States just keep increasing there fees and apps and preference point cost. The inflation never ends and when it takes 10-20 years to draw a tag at some point you just say "F it, never again".

I'm only 40 so I'm on the young end of the hunting spectrum. The average age of most hunters is 50+, and it continues to age. Lots of hunters are old enough and at a point in their life they have expendable money and "nothing to lose" by continuing to apply for these hunts they honestly may never actually get to participate in. Once those baby boomers die off who will be applying for these points? Not me, and I sure as heck don't see the millennials spending $100 or more a year to simply buy points. (the few that actually hunt, cuz there ain't many)

I honestly believe in my lifetime I will see the point system completely collapse or at the very least the required number of points to draw significantly decrease as simply thru attrition as many of the hunters will either die or simply lose interest in applying do to old age.

From: cnelk
23-Apr-19
@Turkey1

I certainly understand your frustration, but I would encourage you to think 'longer term', especially if you like/want to hunt Colorado, and even other states.

Its true that in the coming years, the first wave of 'baby boomers' are not going to be in the mix anymore. And game departments are already communicating that the interest of the younger generation is low.

That means in the next 10 - 20yrs, guys like you can have some really good tags, but only if you keep applying for PPs and stay the game.

But hey, its your time and money.

From: Ucsdryder
23-Apr-19
Funny about the baby boomers. In the area I hunt the very vast majority of the people I come across are in the 25-45 range. I see very few retired guys.

From: Turkey1
23-Apr-19
Oh I’ve currently got 13 elk points that I got “cheap”. Won’t cost me anything to sit on them for 5-10 years without applying and see what happens. I’m in no hurry to burn them.

What is it? Like 10 years without an application before I lose my points?

And man oh man am I glad I got all those bighorn points when I did!! Got 9 weighted points there. That’s $1200 worth of points in today’s market. Too bad I can’t sell them on eBay for half that. LOL.

Hoping to draw mulie tags next year. Got 12 points there. I’ll be out of that if I do. One and done I ain’t spending over $1,000 on points to shoot a dad gum deer. I just can’t justify that. Some people can and that’s cool I won’t begrudge them in anyway for it. But it’s not for me anymore.

Don’t get me wrong I’m not saying I won’t hunt mulies again. I just refuse to chase after a hunt that’s gonna take several years to draw. Cuz I’ve become witness to where that leads!!!

From: Vanish
23-Apr-19
Doing the math, I was shocked to realize what our spring turkey tag would end up costing us this year, had all the fees been in place when we started. It would have cost almost as much as an NR Nebraska tag. I'll be curious to see if anyone else does the math and says screw it, or if they're like me and just continue to tell themselves to ignore the cost because its what they like to do, hoping others drop out and it requires less PP to draw, bringing the cost back down again.

One thing I've noticed is that most of the younger generation of hunters I do know do not really talk about the cost of resident tags and are extremely committed to hunting. Its just what you have to do if you want to hunt.

Very few "casual" young hunters compared to when I was growing up. Deer camp was mostly guys who came out for a couple of days more as a way to get away than really committed to deer hunting. I only really know of one guy my age like that. Also just realized I'm dang near out of that 25-40 bracket. Yikes.

From: Turkey1
23-Apr-19
Vanish,

Wife and I just got drawn for the Bosque del Oso hunt with the price increase to $150 for a tag this year and the new $9 application fee times 7 points to get drawn I highly doubt we will be doing that again!

I agree the younger generation is a different breed of hunter. They don't seem to complain about tag prices BUT at the same time they don't seem to travel out of state to hunt much either. They like that "locavore" trend going around. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but that doesn't help states such as Colorado that desperately need the NR's money to keep their wildlife department afloat.

From: cnelk
23-Apr-19
"... but that doesn't help states such as Colorado that desperately need the NR's money to keep their wildlife department afloat."

Lets rephrase that to "..... keep their PARKS department afloat"

From: sticksender
23-Apr-19
We'll find out soon enough, but elk apps and point creep may not change much, possibly even get worse. Quoting from another post "will wait to see if people drop out". If that's what everybody's doing, app numbers will continue to be high. In truth Colorado is still not even the most expensive state to apply and hunt, especially from a NR perspective. After applying in Idaho this week for just ONE species....the app cost was 280.25 in non-refundable fees.....with odds to draw of about 1%.

From: Turkey1
23-Apr-19
Oh certainly Colorado isn't the only state in this pickle if things go south! Plenty of other states charge like rip as well for applications, some more expensive than others that's for sure.

23-Apr-19
The point system use to work until we ( I'm guilty too) started telling everyone we knew get points get points... get points!!!!!!

From: sisabdulax
24-Apr-19
I am done on big point units. Trying to burn my 11 elk points. Will put in for stuff that may take a point or 2. Most likely ill watch left over list. I will continue for sheep and goat though.

From: CO Oak
24-Apr-19
Per commentary at the last Commission meeting, total big game apps were:

2017: 550K

2018: 698K

2019: 590K

The increase in moose, sheep, and goat applications from 2017 to 2018 totaled 80,613 (including desert sheep). My prediction is that a large portion of the 108K application drop this year will be seen in moose, sheep, and goat. I guess we will find out soon enough.

From: Dirk Diggler
24-Apr-19
Thanx CO Oak!

From: Aspen Ghost
24-Apr-19
I'm curious to see the results by species and by age of applicant. I figured that with the changes the number of NR applications wouldn't go down for deer, elk and antelope but the actual number of NR applicants would decrease.

I know two young family men who dropped out because they just couldn't justify spending $100 every year for who knows how long just to get a chance at drawing a $700 tag. I suspect they aren't alone and that Colorado has probably lost much of the NRs in the 30 to 40 year old age group.

On the other hand, I typically only put in for elk but actually put in for preference points for deer and antelope since they were only $9 for each additional species. I wonder how many folks that normally would have just put in for deer or bear or antelope took the same approach and went ahead and got an elk pp because it was only $9 more.

From: Longcruise
24-Apr-19
Do apps for PP only add up with the apps for tags? Is there a way to split them out of the stats?

From: Dirk Diggler
24-Apr-19
When the hunting stats are released for 2019, late this year or early next, I forget, that will be listed longcruise.

From: Brun
25-Apr-19
If you go to hunting statistics and look under Draw Recap Reports the very last page is the listing of everyone who just applied for points. They usually get this posted pretty quickly after the draw, so it should be about mid June for elk, a little sooner for draws that happen earlier.

From: Longcruise
25-Apr-19
Thanks

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