Tag allocations
New Mexico
With the New game commission getting so long I want an opinion on tag allocations and I want to see what your opinions are. Here is the situation that I want you to consider. The draw is broken down into 84% R, 6% NR, and 10% outfitter. They made all antler less elk tags and WMA's open to R only but they are still draw tags. The O pool is open R and NR but for these tags NR can't be in the O pool. I have seen this happen where there are more than 10 tags so 1 should go into the O pool, and sometimes there are 50 tags where there should be 5 tags in the O pool. I have seen where a R has put in with an outfitter and not drawn a tag. Can they sue the G&F for not following the draw break down? I can see where there are less than 10 tags they are not entitled to draw because it would throw the 84% lower and the O 10% higher. Maybe it is one of the cases G&F is already facing and we will have an answer from the courts.
One example is if I wanted to hunt unit 34 ELK-1-318 there are 350 antler less tags. I contract with an outfitter to get me into the public area I want to hunt and get my game out. I am the only one that puts in with an outfitter, which there should be 35 tags, and I don't draw. Can the outfitters or myself take G&F to court for not abiding by the draw requirements?
Draw stats aren’t out for 2019, but going off 2018 numbers they seem to be sticking with the allocation percentages. I would never sue over a cow tag. If there is a question as to why something happened the way it did I would call the licensing department head. No reason to make lawyers rich, they already make too much.
Let us know how you make out. I might sue them too because my uncle drew bull elk, my daughter drew bull elk, my brother drew ibex and oryx, my best friend drew antelope and elk and I drew nothing and had to buy a either sex archery tag. How would I go about starting up a go fund me account ?
I wouldn't sue them either because I know enough LO's that I could get a cow tag if I wanted one. I still have one daughter under 18 so she fills the freezer with elk on a youth encouragement hunt. Did you read about questioning the tag percentages in the draw brought up by some group? Wondering if that has something to do with NR and O tags. Waiting to see the outcome on that one.
jdee--You probably were one of the unlucky ones that had a "random" high number and had your hunts filled by 2nd and 3rd choice applicants.
I saw in unit 36 ALL the SCR landowners got Mature Bull tags.... No cow tags at all . I wonder what the reasoning is ?
Money. If you want to control the herd you take out cows. If you take out one bull that has bred 40 cows you take out one elk. If you take out 40 cows that have been bred you take out 80 elk at a minimum. Wonder how the SCR's stayed in after the new scoring system was put in place.
Almost impossible to file lawsuit and have it go anywhere on a random game of chance.
I think the allocation should go 90/10 like most other states and let the free market, well, that horse is beaten to death already...
The draw percentages are not something G&F can alter, it is State law and was set by the legislature and signed by the governor. There are some quirks like you mentioned (less than 10 tags total) but they generally have to follow it. In cases like you mentioned where a unit is under subscribed by outfitters those are supposed to revert back to the normal draw pool so it makes no sense to not give it to a Res. who chooses to hire a resident guide.
It's all public information so I don't think G&F will veer away from it. I'd like to know more about a group questioning allocations though, send me a pm if you would like. Residents here generally get close to 90% and I'm good with that. Residents get all the cow tags and the wma tags which are excluded from the NR draw. (which brings it close to 90%) Some might not like it as everyone wants an E/S tag (a bull tag) but that's how it is.
Me too HDE. 90/10. It's not impossible on the lawsuit front, it has just never happened as the cattle growers and NM council of outfitters yield a big wallet. LO tags are the separate issue.
A lawsuit is what got us this wonderful draw percentage. If you go through the 2018 draw report here are a few examples. First is military on McGregor ELK-1-357; 10 tags; R applied 1st, 2nd 3rd choice are 9,9,4; 4 R drew and 6 NR drew 1 O drew for 110% tags allocated with a break down of R 40%, NR 60%, O 10%.
2nd example is Unit 9 Archery ELK-2-124; 160 tags, R applied 42,37,77 R drew 126; 34 NR drew for a percentage breakdown of R 78.75% NR 21.25%, NO O put in for it.
Just a few examples on elk only but I have seen similar in deer draws just quickly looking.
Red, I'm not aware of any successful lawsuit that got us to a defined "percentage" Threats, maybe. But it goes both ways and G&F can adjust anything they want. Supreme Court has dictated it and our legislature defines it.
Just because an outfitter doesn't put in with a client does not mean a client can't hire them. Many do and I've hunted unit 9 many times to know that both residents and NR's hire a guide after they draw a tag in the non guided pool.
How can they draw more tags than GF have allocated?
I could be full of BS , but I have always questioned the integrity of the draw process. There isn't any way for the participants to verify the process. We are supposed to take GF word for it. If they cant draw 10 tags correctly , then what makes you think the rest of it is run correctly?
RedSparky, Ya your McGregor #s should have more R drawn for sure.
Unit 9 its possible that some of those R with unit 9 as 2nd and 3rd choices never made it into the unit 9 draw pool. They could of drawn thier 1st or 2nd choice therefore leaving more tags in the draw to be filled by NR. Not sure if GNF caps the NR percentages if theres a lack of R applicants.
Also If applied unit 9 and didnt draw then it would be worth definitely a phone call to gnf for sure.
“They could of drawn thier 1st or 2nd choice therefore leaving more tags in the draw to be filled by NR. ” Exactly
The 1 over allocation...party app?? That one is tough to try and explain for them.
As far as unit 9 goes they filled about 37 with 4th choice resident applicants. Possible they filled every resident that put in for it and had to keep filling in more NR to get to the 160 tags. We know how far downhill unit 9 has gone, especially after the SLO land swap, so we don't apply for it. I will put the NW as my 4th choice so if I don't draw one of my first 3 choices I might draw a unit 9 tag.
You are probably correct Red. Unit 9 seems to be a "filler" unit. A few years ago I often talked hunting with my UPS guy who's family had some small land up north. Every once in a while they would get an SCR tag and we shared stories. One day he came in and asked "do you know anything about unit 9"? I was perplexed and asked why. Well that's what his family was given, even though their property is near Red River. Weird.
I want to see 90-10 R/NR, no UW tags, no outfitter pool. The E+ is a joke. Trying to contact participating Lo's is a joke, maps are a joke. Just do away with it already.....
