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First and foremost I am a deer hunter, pure and simple. I chose the recurve in the early 80's once I shot a custom bow and had several. Although I can not shoot the weight today, I still like my 41 pound long bow. I also was able to recover to hunt, by being able to get my Hoyt down to 43lbs, and as far as what I can physically do its okay with my doctors.......

With age, I've dropped weight down to 53lb on 2 WhippenStick customs...Phoenix takedown recurve and a one piece RD longbow. That longbow is my baby! Love it.

I have only taken two(2) whitetails with a bow while wearing orange. Pretty sure it doesn't work for turkeys either. May have to come back to WI the last place I exclusively hunted traditional bow. Son had a WI youth lisc. a few years back but wasn't successful-not for lack of trying. My son has tried most methods of archery loves his recurve, hunts exclusively with it. Even wrote his MN legislator stating his reasons for not allowing crossbows in regular archery season as part of a School/Boy Scouts project. (Hey HE chose the subject). Wasn't impressed with the response, basically blew him off as not something they could control. ("Really? who does make the laws then?")Daughter shoots a mean longbow, but just for fun-so far.

I love my long bow, but its another discipline that takes a lot of practice and effort, and I have done well with that...........

I think Jake makes a good statement above. The ability to be out there is something one may take for granted, until something happens, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Well Captain, I'd call that guy a hunter well before someone who shoots a bear with any weapon with its head buried in a box of donuts. I did that - once - and can't see ever doing that again. That was shooting and there is zero challenge to it unless one used trad gear. Now, stalking one out in Alaska or the Yukon to get within bow range would be very different. I can't call shooting a deer out of a condo (I have done that too) hunting versus shooting either, once again, regardless of the weapon of choice. But, you are right, we all are entitled to our own definitions.

Most of the loss in bow and arrow hunting is from compound bowhunters who have gone from 85% let off to the cocked, triggered, and scoped crossbow.

Hunting is not one size fits all no matter how the "purists" insist it should be. Hunting means different things to different people. It should not matter to me what it takes for you to get your jollies out of hunting and vice versa. Everything does not need to be as difficult as possible for success to feel good. If that was the case you'd wear a loin cloth instead of camo and you wouldn't use scent control and you'd only stalk versus using tree stands. I feel certain you take the "easy" way out on all 3 of those.

People have different degrees of hunting knowledge and skills, probably based on what they were exposed to in their youth. This is just like those who golf or play any sport for that matter. It is OK to not be an expert or professional at something and still enjoy doing it. Even hack golfers enjoy the game. Same can be said for those who gun hunt 1 weekend per season. Those people don't need to be judged and I'd sure don't give a rat's ass what you think about them. But, there are people out there that feel the need to judge others based on their skill set even though it should not matter to the judger at all. I think it makes those judging feel better about themselves.

You say you don't judge people on their weapon of choice but you 100% judge others on their approach and methodology to hunting as if others would actually care what you think about them. Why does it matter to you so much that others get out of hunting something different than you do? We get it, you are a self-proclaimed expert hunter because you shoot a trad bow and you don't bait and you don't use food plots. Personally, I just think you choose to enjoy your hobby in a different manner than others do but your approach won't get you into Heaven before the next guy. In the big scheme of life, your approach to hunting is meaningless to others as their approach should be to you - within the laws of course.

There are those of us still into the challenge of bow and arrow hunting, with real bows without scopes. Why should we dumb ourselves down in our efforts and challenges, and lump ourselves into other groups with vastly different values and objectives? Sticking together is an "old school " term, and very outdated thinking in meeting today's hunting world challenges.

Do you have definitive proof that food plots and farms spread disease. Please site your sources. Thanks.

Do you have a plan to stop deer from licking each other which is most likely a bigger spreader of disease?

I will add that deer farming is barely a step up from a guided fenced hunt, or safari, these practices give a bad rap to a lot of hunters

Judging others again? Because you don't plant food plots, does that make you a better person than people who do? In the big scheme of life, why does it matter so much to you that others get out hunting something different than you do?

Totally the same thing............yeah not quite.

So I suppose a hunter that sits on a fresh clear cut in the deep woods give it a bad rap. A hunter who sits on the only grove of white oaks within 1000 acres gives it a bad rap. A hunter who sits on his 10 acre alfalfa field, which he harvests for his cattle, gives it a bad rap.....

Truth be told, I think its the self-proclaimed geniuses with the ignorant attitude on how they are right about everything that give it a bad rap.

"I will add" I have as much respect for ignorant hunters bashing everyone else's style because it's different then theirs, as I do for poachers........barely a step up. These practices give a lot of headaches to everyone, and are an insecure voice, looking to be heard.

How about instead you just go stand by yourself, and we will all stand together. Apparently you are the only one good enough to breath the air around you.

Make sure you also teach them to ignore everything else. That the food plot is the most important thing in their routine. Forget acorns when they drop, forget water.....they don't need that, forget the rut, humans are friends, none of their instinct matters anymore. They will most certainly be there at precisely 7:53 every single day! I can guarantee that! Shoot, they will probably eat out of your hand....

Cool pics Happy.

"Funny how we never talked about diseased deer when everyone actually hunted. Now we have all the wanna be deer farmers, throwing who knows what in the woods, it will catch up to us."

"Time to get back on the topic of food plots, it's that time of year when folks are looking for ideas, we all may not agree, but as long as done by the rules, I support my fellow outdoorsmen, we need to stick together."

Sounds like Slicer is super supportive of all styles of hunting. He mentions so several times after he's done bashing "deer farmers" AKA people that plant food plots.

I've shot a compound since 2000. I thought of going back to trad but have not for various reasons, one of which is a shoulder issue that I get cortisone shots for. I am therefore content with my compound but I lowered the poundage from 65 to 60 and may go even lower. That said, hard work has never deterred me. Pain is temporary.

Perhaps if you'd have worked harder in your life or learned how to invest, you too could own your own piece of heaven and be able to improve it. But since people now know that private land owners and food plots bother you so much, I would expect people to post lots more plot pics just for you which is exactly what I did. You're welcome.

Just sayin

Still waiting for you to prove that food plots and farms transmit diseases. Have you been able to stop deer from licking each other? Please answer this - Why does it bother you so much that people get different things out of hunting than you do?

Oh the struggle to pull a real bow back for 5 seconds, but can slave away for days putting in a food plot without equipment. Lol

I've explained this many times while you were posting under Neverbait and now under Slicer. Besides the torn rotator cuff, I simply don't make the time nor have the energy anymore to shoot trad appropriately. That is why I switched to a compound in 2000 to begin with. Hunting is just a hobby to me and I have limited time to put into it. I put more time into fishing and being at (and maintaining) the lake house in Three Lakes. I coach a high school sport which keeps me very busy. I work full time, travel often for my job and I always put my family 1st on the list with everything I do. I can pick up my compound and shoot well in short order. I could never do that with my trad gear. I was never a great shooter with it either. Have you seen all the times I have stated that the trad guys rock? I am envious of the ones who are good, but not the ones like you who think they are better people in life due to their weapons of choice. The deer deserve our best and I can't guarantee that with trad gear. The rotator cuff issue is just the icing on the cake. I have no time in my life right now to go under the knife either.

Reminds me of a chap running a 5k, then parking in the handicap stall at Walmart.

You still seem jealous of those who have been able to save some money and buy their own piece of heaven. Jealousy is not a good trait in life. Try working hard. I work hard even hard work causes me pain. I'm lucky to have a 19 year old son to help me with all my land work. Unfortunately for me, he heads back to college in a week. I sure wish I had more time for land work. I had not been to camp in over 2 months. I started that plot last year after I bought that additional land and just recently saw the rewards. Isn't food plotting GREAT!!!! I wish I could add more. I am now paying a guy $175 per hour to cut trails through my swamp with his Fecon. That's the next big project.

And have the nerve to complain about baiting luring all your deer away.

Never once have I complained about baiting. And, I've been honest on this too - I have said my #1 goal of planting food plots is to attract all the neighbor's deer. Can't say if that works or not and once gun season comes, those with corn win out. I love planting seed and watching deer sprout. That is deer farming right?

I still can't grasp this exposure thing you keep pointing to and "butthurt"? Putting in fertilizer and spreading seed is not earth shattering work. It takes me around a year to get a plot done without big machinery. Your deflection methods are comical or perhaps reading comprehension is very tough for you because you've been told the same thing before Neverbait/Slicer --> I rate shooting a trad bow again very low on my list of priorities in life, period. Did you read my list of items that I hold in higher regard not that I should even bother to explain to you? My shoulder issue is like reason #10 as to why I don't shoot trad anymore. Please try to understand. One day though, my shoulder injury might force me into a decision on whether to hang it up totally or switch to an xbow. I currently can only shoot around 5 arrows max with my compound. My workouts in the gym are not what they used to be either. Yet, I still workout 4-5 days a week when my schedule allows. I never let pain get in my way. If I can't be the best I could possibly be with a trad bow, it would be unfair to the deer. That should be very simple logic to follow, for those with a brain anyway.

For a chap that doesn't hunt with a real bow, you spend an awful lot of time on a traditional thread. My guess is the real bow hangs on the wall to mislead friends on your skill level.

Once again, why do you care what I, or anyone else, hunts with? Why does it matter to you? Why does my skill level matter to you one bit? Please explain, Are you a better person than I am because you hunt with trad and I do not? I personally have loved this thread because I really admire those who can shoot trad well. I have called those people the real archers. I'm sure you have seen me say that 100 times too. But, I don't like people like you who put yourself on a pedestal simply because of your weapon of choice in a hobby.

There are plenty of bait plot threads on bowsite to discuss your green thumb, as you can see above there are quite a few chaps that have not chosen the easy way.

And there you go again showing your envy of those who have worked hard in life to buy their own hunting land giving them the right to manage it and improve it with their own hard earned cash as they like. Perhaps you should find a profession where your tag line is not "Welcome to WalMart". When you say the "easy way", are you referring to wearing camo and not a loin cloth or using a tree stand and not stalking? Those are the easy ways you use right?

The simple solution is that baitplotting is not hunting, don't call it that, it has nothing to do with the sport of hunting.

I never called food plots hunting. Planting food plots is a hobby just like catching butterflies, picking mushrooms, fishing and hunting. Food plotting and hunting are separate hobbies. I also like to plant fruit trees and shrubs too. Cool stuff huh.

The land issue you bring up I have been avoiding in trying not to make you look stupid, but since you insist.

I have no land issues at all other than the damn bears that trash my pop-up blinds and mess with my fruit trees. You are making yourself look stupid in trying to make things up to divert your hypocritical arguments. This one is especially weird on your part and what I believe is a complete deflection.

Why would anyone buy a lousy piece of property, spend well earned money and time, to end up with the same lousy piece of property that every 40-80 acre neighbor has done the same thing to. Then sit limited on the same lousy piece of property in the same stands, when there are 10s of thousands of beautiful public land to roam, unless you like to bend the rules in private a bit.

I don't need to explain this but I will. I wanted my own land to have a place for my son to hang his hat all the time. I also wanted to take this crappy land and see what I could do with it to make it better. My son LOVES the land and the cabin. He's killed 7 deer there since I bought it for him. We can always go the UP and enjoy it. We have lots of deer on the land along with lots of other critters. Guess what, the land is an asset too. If my son ever chooses to sell it when I am gone, chances are it will be worth more than when I bought it.

Oh yeah, I also own a house on the Three Lakes chain of lakes. You might think that is dumb too when I can just tow a boat and go to different lakes all the time. Isn't it great that we all have choices and that life is not one size fits all.

it seems like you accusing private land owners as being rule benders as you put it? Wow, you are really hitting the low class button now. You are also judging those who own land versus hunting public land. I'm guessing you think you are God's gift to hunting because you shoot trad and hunt public land. Personally, I'm willing to bet that you were simply too stupid in life to invest wisely and you are just jealous of those who have what you really want.

Just an observation.

Answered above. Learn to read and comprehend. I did not realize though that Walmart pays that well ;). FTR, I'm not actually stealing anyone's deer. I am feeding them and making them feel welcome on my crappy land.

Not sure what questions you want answered, most you should know. No, I do not hunt from a tree, to heavy to lug a stand, no need if you pick the right spot. I do wear clothes, probably going on 20 years old, no they are not scent lock, i never hunt with a bad wind, with a real bow you need to get much closer and will never fool a Deers nose.

1- Why do you get your undies in a bundle because people getting different things out of hunting than you do?

2- Why can't you comprehend that people who hunt have differing skill sets just like people who play sports do? That seems to elude and bother you.

3- Why does it bother you so much that people (a) choose to own land and (b) choose to do what they want to improve it? I still say jealousy.

4- Why do you think you are a better person in life due to your weapon of choice in a hobby?

5- Why do you expect everyone to hunt like you as if you are right and others are wrong when there is no right or wrong if all the laws are followed?

Let the games begin, every wanna be deer farmer has the same trail cam pics of the same bucks, and tries to outmaneuver the other. I have to chuckle sometimes.

Chuckling is good for your health. I have to chuckle sometimes too and enjoy it.

Btw, you spoke of baitplotting as a hunting methodology, look above, you have a short memory.

Nope, hunting a food plot is a hunting methodology just like hunting trails, bedding areas, etc. Planting a food plot is its own hobby. They are not mutually inclusive. While we're on the topic of short term memories, please go look at my very 1st post in this thread.

Do what you want, I dont care, but it is not hunting and I will call you out on that point

Actually you do care and very much. It drives you bat shit crazy that everyone does not hunt like you do or that people dare not make the hobby of hunting as hard as it can possibly be yet they still get enjoyment from it. Speaking of short term memories again, please go up to like my 2nd post and see my comments about hunting and shooting. As always, feel free to call me out on anything and I will retort.

Yeah Captain, I tried to hold a civil conversation but Neverbait has shown his true colors and won't answer the simplest of questions posed to him although I took the time to answer all of his. His pedestal is quite high. I would not be surprised if the guy was not a trad hunter at all. He sure is jealous of people who own land though.

Neverbait, the floor is all yours.

There are a ton of beneficial things that can be done to a property with various Stewardship Programs, at little or NO cost. Our entire property is under stewardship with the DNR, with the exception of the 20 tillable. We have had 20 acres of overgrown aspen logged off last year for regrowth purposes and 3 years back, planted 8000 conifers and native grasses, in what was 17 acres of ag land that was previously being rented to the neighboring farmer.

What did we spend? 40 dollars a day to rent a tree planter, the DNR covered the rest. If we want to get specific, actually profited quite a bit from the logging, which was never the goal. Primary goal being habitat improvement of areas that were more or less useless for deer, and many other species as well.

I know when I switch I'll have a booner circling my stand at 35 yards...

There are plenty if good options out there, Sage is just the way I went. What's more important than the bow is the amount of time you spend practicing. It can be a frustrating learning curve. Some days you will be shooting awesome and everything is working, the next day you can't hit the broadside of a barn. But, it all comes together with time and if you are content with shooting 20 yards or less, many would be surprised at how quickly you can get good to that distance. For me, over 20 yards takes considerable more practice and is something I'm still not comfortable with in a hunting situation, but I don't practice as much as I should.

Just be warned, you will soon want a $1000 custom rig.

There are plenty if good options out there, Sage is just the way I went. What's more important than the bow is the amount of time you spend practicing. It can be a frustrating learning curve. Some days you will be shooting awesome and everything is working, the next day you can't hit the broadside of a barn. But, it all comes together with time and if you are content with shooting 20 yards or less, many would be surprised at how quickly you can get good to that distance. For me, over 20 yards takes considerable more practice and is something I'm still not comfortable with in a hunting situation, but I don't practice as much as I should.

Just be warned, you will soon want a $1000 custom rig.

I went through a few bows until I found that one, then my search was over. That one was 65 lbs at my 29" draw, and I could, and did, shoot it all day.

With the ravages of time, and a ruptured left bicep tendon, it became too much so a new search ensued. Long story short...a Canadian friend turned me on to a custom Bowyer under the name WhippenStick. I ordered a takedown 60" recurve...52 lb. A beauty to behold and shoot. Little later I got the itch for a longbow and ordered my 2nd...a 65" RD shooting 53lb at my draw. That's my go-to bow, and I'm set with two.

The Sage is a great, cheap bow for a beginner...my wife started on one for a year before I got her a custom for Christmas. Start there...if you don't like trad, you're not out some serious coin. If you DO however, you WILL feel the burn to "go big". At that point...do some research, ask around, and absolutely go to trad shoots! Guys will let you shoot theirs...shoot em all. Find one that speaks to you, and get out your wallet. When you find the right fit for YOU, that will be money well spent.

An example...there's a fella in the Milwaukee area who's a 4 time IBO world champ in his longbow class. He's a good friend of that WS bowyer, and has several of his bows. I called him about looking at his collection and we met at a shoot...he brought 4 bows and told me to shoot away. We shot for hours...and when done I'd made my choice. Got home, made the call, and set up my order.

It's a brotherhood, and WILL put the fun back in archery. I don't hunt as hard as before, but shoot more.