Res tags how often are you guys drawing?
New Mexico
Kansas resident looking at relocating in the near future, Alburquerque is on the list.
Question for you residents? How often are you drawing elk and mule deer archery tags? And how is the public land situation when you do?
Only interested in archery
What else does the state have to offer?
What else does it have to offer? That is about all it has to offer. Drive through N.M. sometime, it is a drier West Virginia relocated a few time zones away.
Better states to relocate in the west than NM that will also offer bowhunting opportunities. Non-resident has a better chance at the draw.
HDE, How is that possible when only 5% of the draw goes to non-residents?
I mean I’ve heard the state has its issues with corruption and such but really?
Basically what I’m asking is if you put in for everything every year have you been able to hunt something every other year? Every three years? What’s the average?
Again mostly elk and mule deer interest but info on other species too would be helpful.
As far as the scenery, I’ve seen quite a bit of it and it’s a beautiful state for sure!
It is a beautiful state! Every state has their own level of corruption. I usually only put in for really good units and might draw elk every 3-5 years but you never know with a lottery draw. I haven’t had an archery MD tag in about 8-9 years or a rifle tag for mulies in 19 years! There are much better states out there for hunting opportunities for elk and deer every year. I put in for everything but javelina and drew Antelope.
Michael - most NR's use outfitters, so in essence have more than 5% chance...
I would really research ABQ unless you’re a liberal and anything goes, it is a truck and car theft paradise and I’ve heard gangbangers are moving in to ABQ from other states because NM is so easy on the criminal, panhandlers have more rights than the working man, the liberal government that has been voted in is 100% for illegal immigration and spends 100’s of thousands to support them, Governor is anti gun, anti trapping,and seems to really want to do away with the western heritage and in brace the far left ideas.
As far as drawing tags it’s hit and miss as a resident, some times you draw an archery elk tag every 5 to 10 years my last one was 2013 but with LO tags if you have the money you can hunt bulls every year. I hunt mule deer in south central NM and can draw that tag quite regularly but the deer herd here is nothing to get excited about. Beautiful state with a lot of country to hunt but IMO the powers in this state would love to turn it into another California.
Nothing about ABQ is appealing, if I had a choice NM would not be anywhere near the top of my list. We are near last In every positive category and near the top of every Negative list.
My junior hunter and I apply for 6 tags each: elk, deer, ibex, oryx, barbs, javis (everything except speed goats and bighorn), and while we do pick some top-shelf hunts, we also are willing to accept an OK tag too. We can generally count on two tags each per year. We hunt only public land and have pretty much figured out how to have our spots all to ourselves. Our harvest rates are kind of low, but that's my fault, not the state's.
wrt draw odds for NR's...Besides the NR's often drawing from the Outfitter pool, and using Land Owner Authorizations, sometimes the ratio of NR apps to NR tags is really low, so the chance of drawing is relatively high.
I've lived in NM for 25+ years, and I see that our liberal wackos are pretty much the same as the liberal wackos all over the country. Albuquerque has the same problems as other big cities, and like every other big city there are pockets of good and bad. Pay attention and you'll be ok. Also, I see Texas as being short on public land, Arizona, Colorado, Oregon, and Washington having loads more people, Colorado is just as liberal and far more expensive, Utah is … dryer, and Wyoming, Idaho, and Montana have a bit more winter than I now prefer.
I really hope that the couple of grumps here are not trying to shore up their draw odds up by discouraging a hunter from potentially moving here. They would be discouraging the wrong kind of person, and ought to be on some other forum discouraging liberal wackos from relocating instead. On the other hand if they are seriously that disenfranchised with living in NM and can't "love the one you're with", then to paraphrase the Chief Executive …maybe they ought 'go back to where they came from.'
Nonresident a have a better chance at the draw? Most non residents use outfitters? HDE...the numbers are what the numbers are, they are broken out in those categories in the drawing stats. Neither of the statements you threw out there above are remotely true.
My experience is pretty much in line with Bill's. If you're ok settling on ok units for your second or third draw choice you should have a couple of tags each year.
Dogman, thanks for wasting your time to look it up and correct me. I knew someone would for the benefit of everyone else.
Really, it matters that much to me...
In the 2018 draw data, I see 141 hunt codes where the NRs were more successful at drawing 1st choice than residents. And 357 where residents were more successful. NRs did not select 230 codes for a first choice (e.g. Cow elk). So about 1/3 of the times that residents play the game, they have a better chance of winning. This does not include outfitter applicants.
so that's how to get a duplicate post...
I didn’t waste my time to look it up. It is common knowledge.
The OP asks a simple question and all he gets is NM trash talk. NM has plenty of problems but that's not what he asked. Statistically, you should draw an archery elk tag about every 3 years if you use your 3 choices wisely. There a mule deer and coues tags that you can get every year. If you apply for the 2B or 2C January hunt, you may never get it. People don't realize that NM has 14 different big game species that you can bowhunt if you count turkey and javelina. I live in northwest NM and could literally live anywhere I wanted. I stay because #1 they keep giving me an elk tag more frequently than statistics say I should. #2 I have an agreement with a landowner that lets me get a private land only deer tag every January. #3 I'm within a days drive of any unit in Arizona, Utah, Colorado, Wyoming and Kansas. All states that I hunted last year. #4 The year round climate is about as good as it gets. Never too hot and never too cold. No humidity. NM has tons of political issues but so does Colorado. I would probably stay away from Albuquerque and wouldn't set foot in Santa Fe. Other than that, it's a great place to be.
Yeah looking at NM because Colorado is in economic crisis atm with influx, AZ doesn’t seem to have quite the tag potential. All the other western states have low enough populations that I’d have trouble fledging a private clinic.
Also if you want to see what republicans will do go to Texas where it’s pay to play on private land.
I’m kind of in the middle, fairly conservative but wouldn’t mind having a couple nice gay neighbors in Santa Fe lol
Thanks for the input more advise is appreciated
Hey now BillL & JSW if the truth hurts take a Tylenol.......He asked about ABQ and in my book it sucks unless your a bleeding liberal !! Who cares about Colorado he was asking about NM. I put in for the unit I live in for elk and it’s been since 2013 since I’ve drawn a elk tag. I put in for elk, antelope, oryx, Ibex and Barbary this year and didn’t draw anything. Guess where I’m going in November......South West Kansas for white tail. I love NM, I hate the politicians that run it and the direction it’s headed !!
As if one more resident in draw would matter? Get a life. In all seriousness look at the stats, they’ll tell you all you need to know. Living in NM is manageable, not desirable.
Jsw
Where are these draw statics that you speak of ?
The only way to draw every couple yrs is to apply for the worst units. Like late December bow in 34.
I’m anxious to see the draw odds for this year
Jdee I’ll be in southwest Kansas for Whitetail also, hit me up if you like
If your lucky you will hunt something most years but there is an endless supply of unhappy hunters, probably just like every other state. You will do yourself good to take up a rifle at times because it opens up some excellent meat hunting and it makes the years of not drawing not hurt so much.
I think you should stay in Kansas until February so that you can show me and my dog some Kansas hospitality during the pheasant hunt...............we love to go to SW Kansas!
HDE, Your smoking that legal Colorado weed if you think NR's draw most of the tags! They certainly buy more landowner authorizations but that is fair market and residents actually have a $500+ advantage on NRs since they only pay the resident fee for the actual tag. Thanks to the last tag grab, residents get 84% of all draw tags and all of the antlerless tags. If you aren't drawing any tags its because you aren't willing to apply for a cow tag and/or only apply for top tier units. The bottom line is there are more people (both resident and non-resident) who apply for tags than there are animals in the state to support everyone having a decent chance at drawing a tag.
However, having grown up in Albuquerque until I was 25 and then lived 8 years in Roswell before moving to Lawrence, KS I wouldn't go back. Wyoming I would go tomorrow if I could. Certain parts of Colorado same story and from what I've seen in one short trip, I could enjoy Utah as well. Actually, any of the mountain states, I would go to long before Albuquerque. My parents lived there until 07 and we went back often, still do as I have friends as well as my parent's old place I manage. I miss the mountains, miss my elk and miss at least a decent chance of drawing a good or even great elk tag, but it wouldn't be worth it from what I've seen an experienced.
Here is my answer to the question. I am a life long resident, one of the few that can say they were born in Socorro about 52 years ago when they still delivered babies there. Before you say residents must draw bad units every 3 years you have to understand the draw. I have never failed to draw a deer tag, mulie or coues. That is all 3 weapons choices, rifle, muzzle loader or archery. As far as elk go in the last 12 years I have drawn 10 tags. I drew one of the 4 resident tags for Marquez WMA when NR could still hunt WMA's. I have drawn 16D twice and Unit 13 for about 6 years straight until it became popular. One year I got my 3rd choice and 2 years I didn't draw an elk tag. I forget though I don't understand the draw process so it just must be luck. Remember you can either hunt a sucky unit almost every year or complain about not drawing.
Not often enough. I still have to hunt CO ;)
if you drew 10 out of 12 maybe you should have been playing the power ball
jmho
Nah. Powerball is 1 in however many put in for it maybe 47 million. I'll just keep drawing elk tags and putting meat in the freezer.
Pretty much Sparky. Plenty of unit's that are relatively easy to draw, you just need to put in the time to figure it out. Sometimes years, but it can be done. Due to paying bills and and a mortgage I simply can't do it, but its possible. Wiillhile can probably chime in on this one. Took him a few years in an under drawn unit (not going to say say which one), but he killed and absolute toad 2 years ago. Took him a while though. Props to him, he put in the time and work.
"HDE, Your smoking that legal Colorado weed if you think NR's draw most of the tags!"
Darrell - never once did I say NR's drew most of the tags. I did say most NR's use outfitters. Carefully read what I write next time before trying to sound smart. Smoking weed? Hardly. And, you make an erroneous assumption to think I only apply for top tier tags. Statistically, I should've drawn an archery elk tag this year according to everyone's understanding of game theory. The real line you should've read in between the others is 6% go to NR's, 10% go to the outfitter pool and that most NR's that use outfitters draw. Confusing, I know, but with how good people are at reading between the lines, figured you and that other guy would've picked that up...
The other part to my post is that if anyone is just wanting to relocate out west, choose a state that offers you better opportunities to hunt as a resident. A low tier hunt code in NM, when using your three choices "wisely", is no different than an OTC general archery tag for an Any Bull unit in UT.
You guys keep saying you understand the draw process and if that was true then you would know that if your app isn't assigned a good number then it doesn't matter what your three choices are.
There aren't any draw odds for the 2019- 2020 season available yet and It seems the only left over elk tags this year was for a couple youth hunts.
So if your app doesn't get a good number assigned you aren't drawing a tag no matter what units you apply for.
stick that in your statistical pipe and smoke it...lol
They should just drop the outfitter pool. Good outfitters will not have a problem keeping customers. And bad outfitters can find a different career.
HDE, sorry I misspoke. You said most NRs use the outfitter pool and that just isn't accurate. The odds of drawing in the outfitter pool is better than in the NR pool because of the extra 4% and because in most units there are more NRs than outfitted apps. This is becoming more true as the state and the outfitters are closing the loopholes. Many outfitters used to let NRs use their # for $500 or even less. Now its $1500 or more for a "minimally guided hunt." That is on top of the cost of the tag. Sorry I was being "smart." I just get really sick of the resident attitude that the NRs are taking too many of "our tags" and that cutting down the NR tags will make it much easier for residents to draw tags. The actual draw percentage difference it made for residents was minimal but for NR's the drop from 10% to 6% made most hunts all but a lottery ticket to draw. If some get their way and cut it down even more than it will suck even worse for NRs and yet resident odds will have almost no significant improvement.
priley----Keep telling yourself that. There is now way to statistically improve your odds to draw a tag, it is all luck. Never mind the fact you can have a lower number and not get drawn and you can have a higher number and get drawn. I wonder why that is. Lower numbers help but are not a guarantee to draw a tag, just like a higher number doesn't mean you won't draw.
The only left over elk tags I know of were mobility impaired tags in unit 9. I must have missed the left over youth tags.
spark I would like to see the data indicating a low number wont draw a tag. a low number that didn't draw wasn't low enough. bottom line - if you didn't draw a tag your number was to high and I don't know of any way to improve your chances to receive a low number other than luck.
the only way to draw with a high number it to apply for less desirable units.
but hey you guys that know how to increase draw odds and consistently draw tags then good for you.
spark you are correct there were only 4 mobility impaired elk tags the youth tags were for antelope
Statistically it is all based on units and weapons choices. You have a lower number than me and 3 choices. I have a higher number and 3 choices. Your three choices are full and you are unsuccessful and kicked out of the draw. One of my three choices is not full and I am successful. Hypothetically I could be 150,000 drawn out of 200,000 applicants and I am getting a tag because one of my hunt choices is not full. Statistically not very reasonable but possible. A low number statistically increases your odds that your hunt codes won't be filled but it doesn't guarantee it.
I would hate to calculate the odds but hypothetically say the first 1000 resident hunters drawn have the same exact three hunt codes. I have never seen it since I haven't seen any hunt filled with third choice applicants. Say the first choice is one of the new hunts that has one tag, the second choice has 25 tags, and the third choice has 100 tags. That means 126 hunters are successful and 874 hunters are kicked out of the draw as unsuccessful. Any hunter after the first 126 tags drawn that has any one of those codes has just lost 1/3 of their choices no matter where they are in the draw.
Now you may say they are less desirable units but I don't see any elk tag as less desirable. They all get filled during the draw. I have no problem putting in for cow elk hunts. Never drawn a cow elk tag because I usually pull my first or second choice. The two times I was unsuccessful in the last 12 years I didn't have a cow elk hunt as my third choice. It is nice to swing for the fences and draw an awesome tag but I would rather be hunting something than sitting on the couch during season.
Now is there anything that guarantees me a tag. NO. I do use statistics to increase my draw odds even if they are less desirable units to others. I would rather be hunting a smaller elk herd with smaller bulls and less hunters than a bigger herd with bigger bulls and more hunters. It all depends on what you want to get out of a hunt.
Understood
Haven't drawn the VV in over twenty five tries (# to high) but I did draw third choice unit 34 late dec 6x.
I hate to sound like a broken record, but get rid of the UW LO tags, get rid of outfitter welfare (only the strong will survive) and everyone's odds of drawing go up. Simple........
I agree with your broken record 100%. However, we know the entitlement system is too deeply rooted and the odds of that happening are at least 1000 to 1. However, even if it did happen, there still wouldn't be enough tags to go around and residents would still want to further cut into NR tags. Its just human nature. "I want what I want." There is no "right" percentage. As a NR, I wish it would go back to the 78/22 because I want a greater opportunity to draw a tag. As a resident, many want a 90/10 split "like Arizona" has. Bottom line, however, is anytime you change the numbers, you take tags away from one group to give to another.
I know, I know, the game belongs to the residents of the state so they should get better opportunities. I mostly agree with that. However, how much better opportunities? And there is a lot to be said for most of the game living on Federal land that we all R & NR support.
The bottom line is elk tags are getting harder and harder to draw because elk hunting is just so much fun and the Internet has given many who would have never thought about it a place to research, dream and eventually go. I'm incredibly thankful for the many years I was able to hunt elk in the state I grew up in but know the odds are against me to the point I might not draw another NM elk tag in my hunting lifetime. (However, even at 80, I'll apply if I am at able, even if it means having someone drop me off at a water hole in the morning and picking me up at dark.)
NM residents are very, very blessed to know they can draw a cow elk tag every other year, a decent elk tag every two or three years and a great elk tag every five to ten. However, if you want to hunt bulls every year, you have to be willing to go to Colorado and/or other states.
Cow tag every year? Not even close. Relatively speaking I'm a NM newb and it amazes me the number of born n raised NM's that do not comprehend the easiest system in the west. I laugh when I see facebook posts of residents griping about how NR's are getting all the tags!!
I agree the interweb has opened up gateways to the west, honestly it would be very hard for me to part with my $$ to basically explore such vast lands having no insight nor experience on. Heck even w/ the interweb it can be intimidating. This plethora of info at peoples finger tips has increased demand and tag prices directly reflect that. Before the web people had to do real work and thinking (OMG) to compose draw odds and tactics, now for $150 it is all handed to you on a platter and any dingleberry can see that 60% is better than 20%. But when it comes down to the brass tacks those dingleberries are usually the ones still holding a tag, I've been there.
X2 trophyhill. If anything UW LO tags should only be distributed to properties that are actually damaged by elk herds, or hold resident elk during the tag season. You'd be surprised how many properties that never even see elk get UW tags. If they graze cattle intentionally they should lose elk tags due to self imposed damage to their own land and destruction of habitat.
I'm all for res and nonres both getting more tags. I would even prefer if they dropped the guide pool and give the NRs that percentage. DIY hunting should be promoted. And shady guides should be phased out.
I know a lot of guys who never draw cow tags that put in every year for them.
If a guy truly loves elk hunting and doesn't draw a NM tag, you are right Darrell, CO is an option, for the moment.....an option I take full advantage of while it's available ;) now if the day comes that CO is all draw, I'll be applying for both states and hunt Idaho if I have to. I just love bowhunting elk ;)
As a non resident I have drawn in 8 years and that’s putting unit 2 and as third choices most years. NR have better odds, lol.
ohio is that how you drew the VV ?
Just handover your $150 for the OIL tag ?
trophyhill if you really love to hunt elk come on down to 34 the week before Christmas. ;)
Heck, if $150 was the difference between drawing an OIL or not.... take my money! I got lucky, hit VV for a full moon and got my oryx on a year of 20+ more tags per hunt. Either way both were about 10% draw odds. Can’t win if you don’t play
The 150 I referenced is the cost of go hunt insider
Everything said about NM is true.... I am looking to relocate to either Idaho, Montana, or Colorado.. Colorado is last last on my list, getting very expensive to live there due to the migration of californians fleeing that communist state....
Heck Santa Fe has been that way for at least 30 years.
Wow, that oryx hunt was certainly not an easy draw.... about 4%. That is hands down the hardest tag I've drawn yet.
That is some of the best tasting meat I have ever had. My buddy got an off range hunt back about 20 years ago and I still remember the taste. We pan fried it and it was so tender a fork was all you needed. Good luck!
Hey bow-hnt, the people fleeing California and going to Colorado are the communist.... and they’re turning CO into the California of the Rocky’s. I would think hard about moving there unless your a light weight, whacked out liberal.... Sad but true. NM’s not looking much better now days either with all the liberals here.
Well, if there are 210,000 applications, mine would be numbers 209,995, 209,996, 209,997, 209,998...
thats BS hde... those are my numbers
That's BS Priley... Those are my numbers.
My numbers must be 210,001, 210,002, 210,003 then.
We have a terrific new game commission, but to my knowledge none of our new commissioners follow threads on Bowsite. If you want your concerns to be heard by the people who can actually effect change, the next game commission meeting is on August 22nd in Santa Fe. I will be in Laguna presenting about Wildlife Corridors to the All Pueblo Council of Governors so I will not be at the meeting. The NMWF board president and our conservation director will be present though. The trapping rule will be opened at this meeting. I recognize that meeting is during the week when people are scheduled to be at work. Elk season also coincides with the work week, but somehow hunters lucky enough to draw seem to find a way to make it to that appointment?
Hey, I'll be in Laguna until next Summer building a school. Great looking country over here. Anything I can help you with?
