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My son, 19, had his house broken into while he was in the shower. They must’ve realized he was home and all they got was his tv.
Here is my dilemma. He is insisting that he’s going to get a gun for home protection. I am strongly against a gun in the home of three college students but he’s an “adult” now and his mind is made up.
Since I can’t talk him out of it I’ve made him promise not to buy one through nefarious sources.(he works at a strip club and could easily get one through a coworker) I’ve also made him promise not to do anything until him and his roommates have taken a cc course.
What’s my next step? I’ve even thought about going so far as having the firing pin removed from one of my pistols and giving it to him after he completes the class. I don’t even know if 19 yr olds are eligible to take the class yet. I’ll find that out today. I’m afraid that my biggest fear will turn into a nightmare.
He has been around, handled and shot my guns his whole life. He understands gun safety but he’s a 19yr old smart college idiot.
Ok, so it appears that he can’t even take the class until he’s 21. What are your thoughts on less lethal rounds for my shotgun? I could give him the mossberg with bean bag rounds.
He can legally own a pistol at his age but I’m just not comfortable with that. I might be able to appease him with the 12 gauge.
A 12 gauge would be the best defense gun anyway. Less chance of going through a wall and hitting someone else and not much aiming required. May not be a great idea for a group of 19 year olds in a place though.
I would report the theft to police, nothing more.
Id suggest a good alarm system a taser and some self defense classes, a bunch of 19 yo and a gun would scare me as a father
I have a 19 year old going to Madison now. I agree with Missouri's opinion.
I agree with misery and you Happy. I’m heading up there tomorrow to install some signs and cameras as a deterrent. I think that will be enough. Unfortunately, my boy doesn’t feel the same. If it were a daughter, she’d already have a protection pistol. I do not think it is a good decision at all for three 19 yr old boys to have a gun in the house. Regardless of gun safety knowledge or not. The whole situation is very worrisome. I am very much in favor of cc and home protection but guns are serious and 19 yr old college boys are not. If he lived by himself, I’d be a lot more in favor but the roommates are the unknown variable.
I’m going to bring up the taser option and see where that leads. I’ll also have to check the legality of owning a taser.
Once an adult, you really have no legal way to stop him from purchasing. Hopefully at this point in his life, you have already instilled good ethics and responsibility and will have to rely on that. In my opinion, giving him a gun with no firing pin or non-lethal rounds could easily lead him to being killed by an intruder who did have a gun with the firing pin and lethal rounds. And has already been said, of course it should be reported to the police.
Does he realize the thousands of dollars it will cost him if he kills someone? I'm all for CC and protecting ones self but he needs to know it comes with MAJOR responsibilities. Also living with other people, next his gun may get stolen or used against him. Also hope he's not making "friends" at the strip club. Many people with ulterior motives at those places. I'm not saying they are bad places, but many bad people go there. Get him some bear spray and have him take some MMA classes to defend himself. Also maybe start pumping iron. Those are my suggestions.
You use the term "broken into" does that mean:
Forced entry into the residence?
Entry through an unlocked door or window?
For me the method of entry would define what type of security measures one might undertake. In this case since he was in the shower, a firearm of any type would have been of no value.
I would encourage your son to take stock in his and his roommates security habits including locking all doors and windows at all times. I would also advise that they inventory all items of vale to include recording a description and serial numbers and a photograph. I would keep this information in a safe location. This might help law enforcement if these items are discovered at a later date.
I live in Dane County in a nice suburb of Madison. We are experiencing a large rash of opportunity thefts where thieves are gaining access through unlocked doors and gaining access to vehicles by finding keys in the home. I lock all outside doors even when I am home, My garage doors are never left open, and I lock my auto even in the garage and my keys are kept in a safe location. Sadly its the times we are in.
In closing the decision to possess and use a firearm in a burglary situation, or any situation could have dire consequences, and not necessarily for the perpetrator you are up against. Worse yet in a situation where lethal force is not required you may endure unintended legal consequences. You might want to enlist a member of your local law enforcement to help you son understand what might be best in this situation.
HF43
This is a tough one, because I know I did some stupid stuff in college. The thought that enters my mind is there are a lot of drunk kids in college towns that don’t know what’s it’s like to be on their own and drinking all the time. The last thing your son or you and anyone wants on their mind for life is how some 18 year old super drunk kid walked in the wrong front door and got a 12 gauge blast to the chest. I’m all for home protection, but that sounds like a recipe for disaster. I went to college in Whitewater. I hunted along with my roommates. All of our guns were locked in a gun safe at my roommates parent’s house on the edge of town. You’ll make the right decision.
Sorry Dad, your boy is 19 now. Put yourself in his boots and try to understand what he's feeling...it was he that got broke into, after all...you should be happy he's mature enough in committing to taking steps to protect himself in the future and possibly being smarter than you think. I don't think, however, you'd be out of line in letting him know you in no way condone any retribution or "getting even" in any way. That's the job of law enforcement.
Good luck with everything Crusader.
Probably forgot to lock the door. Happens all the time to college kids.
Hopefully he learned. I'm a big fan of bear spray.
Have him get to know the people next door. More eyes on the street is the best security.
Without knowing your sons physical abilities it`s tough to give self defense advice. I agree with the others that a gun in that environment isn`t the answer.
You have to understand how thieves work....they watch your movements and habits and when the opportunity is right they strike. They don`t want violence or confrontation....they just want your shit.
If your kid suffered a home invasion or was mugged you are talking a different situation. He feels violated, helpless and is pissed right now....this will pass. This is nothing more than a life lesson.
His lock is weak and he didn’t have the deadbolt locked. All you have to do is turn the handle real hard.
Physically, he’s a very strong 190. 6”3’. Defensive end so he should be able to handle himself against a neighborhood drug addict.
He’s going to school for criminal justice and has plans to become a cop. I own guns myself and his hunting rifle has been in his closet at my house for as long as I can remember. He knows where the mossberg and my pistol are located and I’ve never worried about either of my sons regarding guns. He understands the responsibility of gun ownership.
I owned a pistol at his age and always knew where my stepdads revolver was growing up but him having a gun doesn’t sit well with me. It’s three boys in their own home. I’m positive they are drinking and having parties. I feel like there are just way too many “what if’s” in his current situation.
His history, upbringing and current life situation make it difficult for him to make friends at the strip club but I’d be lying if I said wasn’t a bit enamored with the fact that the whole thing is controlled by mafia types.
We have a long boys vacation coming up so hopefully I can talk some sense into him. As a dad of older kids, the worries seem to progressively get more serious in nature.
CD, that's a tough one. I will tell you that when I was 19 I lived on the middle floor of an apartment complex. One night I came home from the bar and fell asleep on the couch. I forgot to lock the door and about an hour later someone opened my door and walked in. They were also drunk and looking for the neighbor above me. Thank god I was on the couch. If I was in bed where my handgun was, I don't know what would have happened, it could have ruined my life. What ever you guys decide, I hope all works out well.
Ill be literally around the corner from his place tomorrow. Let me know if you want me to check in.
Went through this with my oldest son when he was going to the U of Mn. living off campus, told him not to own anything of value and to keep a ball bat by his bed if nothing else, just call the law and to be as minimal as possible until he got established later on. His laptop and iPhone was the most expensive thing he owned. Guns and alcohol do not mix well with college kids, bad enough with some adults.
Fix the door lock.
Install a self locking deadbolt.
Cameras would be your best bet. You'd be amazed how beneficial HD video footage of the subject can be to law enforcement.
Huntnfish43 pretty much nailed it for getting a gun. Probably not the best idea.
My best,
Kevin
Nothing more personal than that Shane. Your son is going to be a police officer? Than I wouldn't worry about him carrying a gun, but more worried about his friends. I'm sure you and your wife will do what's best. On a side note, I am sure he will keep the door locked from now on.
Tough one, but I gotta agree a gun isn't a great idea. A LOT can happen, and most would be bad...not to mention irreversible.
We had a couple shotguns in our house for safety in college. We always rented out the top or bottom floors of houses and had people we didn't know in the other half of the house. Once we had a guy who would yell about wanting to commit suicide when his roommates left(don't think he knew we could hear him). We also ended up with drug dealers who tried to sell me cocaine once so I felt a lot safer with guns around. We did a lot of stupid stuff but never considered doing anything with the guns but I also knew my roommates very well and trusted them. Idk why but we rarely ever locked doors. I was by myself one night, had a lost drunk person walk in at 3am but by the way she was stumbling I never even considered going for the gun. Might have been worse if I was sleeping and they surprised me but all the lights were on and I was on the couch
Crusader said "If it were a daughter, she’d already have a protection pistol." My question is, why the double standard?
When my daughter left home to attend UW Milwaukee as an 18 year old we worried everyday about her safety. When we took her down for her orientation we took a wrong turn off I-43 and wound up smack in the middle of a drug deal going down right in the middle of the street only a few blocks from the campus. We preached safety in numbers to her, never travel alone! Point is, you hope you instill the common sense in your children with the hope they succeed but they don't always listen.
In your case Crusader, I hope you can persuade your son to listen to you, a firearm in that environment is a BAD idea. Explain to him it's not him you're worried about as far as firearm safety, it's those around him and the company he keeps. Unless he keeps it locked up in a proper gun safe that is properly secured he is begging for trouble if someone gets ahold of that gun and hurts someone unintentionally or intentionally.
I have 4 daughters & I armed them with pocket sized Mace sprayers . Only 1 used hers . A guy at a party was really physically pushing himself on her. She nailed him between the eyes , end of that .
All my kids started shooting handguns at age 12 but I would not give them a handgun until they are" ready ", one is 35 & still not ready . Lots of camera's , fake or real. Bad people don't like camera's .
See the link above as this is a all to often occurrence here in Dane County where thieves politely knock on your door before they steal your loot.
Crusader since your son is enrolled at an institution of higher learning you might want to ask him how a gun would have helped him stop the perpetrator who stole from his residence while he was bathing? I would explain to him that if he had a gun, that too may have been stolen. I would further advise that he select the "right tool" for the job and that would be a sturdy "Lock and Key" and not a "Smith & Wesson". If he chooses the latter I might suggest stainless that way it won't rust in the shower.
HF43
Now that he’s calmed down a bit I think I’ll be able to talk some sense into him. The neighborhood druggies were watching me install the signs and cameras. I casually mentioned that now we will get an alert on our cell phone as soon as someone walks up to the house. Hopefully the cams will be a good enough deterrent.
One thing that might help is, if the bad guys were actually watching you, would be to have Dad stay home and son put up his own signs. When Dad shows up to "take care of things" it sends the wrong message that son is a soft target. Son needs to be watched standing up for himself and taking matters into his own hands. I think that would help in deterring the next guy.
A gun for defense in a house full of college aged males that will be partying is an awful idea in my opinion.
Shane barely looks 25 so they probably thought it was one of his friends.
You’re right Tweed. Austin and I could easily pass for brothers instead of dad and son.
He’s had some time to calm down and realizes that a gun in his house is more responsibility than he wants. Crisis averted.
Every Son is different. I grew up with guns, began shooting 22 at 8 years old, I owned my own home and guns when I turned 18 and 1 1/2 ! But I have seen some 21 year olds I would,nt want to even hold a gun ! Dads usually know best.
I carried a weapon for 32 years,,,, and many of those 24 hours a day..... I think all this CCW talk is a lot of hot air....... Look at all the mass shootings, other than one good guy in Texas 2 years ago,, who has engaged..... I find it hard to believe that many are carrying, yet do not engage, ...............
Look at El Paso this afternoon,,,,, are you telling me in NM, in that group, no one is carrying............................ A lot of CCW carriers are full of hot air,,,,,,
A dog would work better than anything. In the situation you described a dog would have started barking alerting your son and more than likely turning the thief around in his tracks.
GH, if a single ccw saved a life it is worth it.
Captain I agree.... my point is, I do not understand, why their are not more engaging, in so many incidents? Its the world we live in, like it or not. I do not have the answer, I believe, that this country, has gotten away from God the churches, etc,,,, and social media, can also be a 2 sided coin
I pray for all the victims of crime, but we also need and should defend ourselves and stop evil
Ground Hunter, I do believe few are CCW in the total picture, the choice to engage is individual. As a teacher I wish we had some form of defense in our rural schools or any school, but Florida had a sheriff who didn't engage. I know many don't like to hear this but society has changed dramatically with technology. I agree with losing touch with God, but churches are led by people who are also corrupt. I can go on and on about this topic. Also the type of life we used to live is gone. Family, farm, logging, hard work with family based activities. My family always played games in the evening, ball, horseshoes, board games, cards, shooting bow. We understood death, gun's hung in our living room, we never touched them. I do not know how I would react if I ever had to defend myself but I would like to have the choice. Soft targets, gun free zones, lack of respect, etc. all in my opinion are part of it. I have the right to carry due to my and my families life threatened as a teacher, coach, and athletic director. Times have changed we are not adjusting.
There’s a lot of good points made, I don’t carry to be a hero but I carry to defend my family and myself first. If there is a situation I could save an innocent persons life I would like to think I would respond appropriately, but I havnt been there so only god knows.
The small amount of formal training I had was from a mpls officer who taught the cow classes . His advise when it comes to saving a strangers life was to be a solid witness and not a hero. Being untrained many times you put more people at risk when firing your weapon especially in a populated area. You and your family will probably go through hell legally and financially after you pull the trigger.
I don’t know hard numbers but from what I remember the majority of these sickos are killing people in “ gun free zones”. Schools, malls, events etc etc.... sorry crusader that got way off topic
Crusader - your on the right track my man!! Signage, cameras and re-enforcing the entry way to the home are your BEST defense - although not always practical ...one of the BEST if NOT the BEST....
A Dog!!
I explain to homeowners over and over - signage - alarms - cameras - appropriate lighting AND my favorite crime preventer is a family dog....
Does not and should not be a mean dog...just make sure he/she likes to BARK at strangers!!
There are VERY few criminals that want to deal with a dog...very, very few!
I'll take a dog any day for home protection!!
My second line of defense would then be a firearm if need be...but that would most likely never be...right behind my dog!!
Any thoughts on a can of bear spray. Not lethal but creates a bad day for whoever's on the opposite end of that and nobody gets killed.
Good suggestion bloodtrail! I opted for a German Shepherd instead of arming my wife. My wife leaves her purse lying around too often and she doesn’t want to carry on person. If a dog fits in with their busy schedule at college that’s an option
GH, liberal society has definitely led the country away from God. With that goes respect, morals and values. Concealed carry is not for all but it can be all for some.
"I carried a weapon for 32 years,,,, and many of those 24 hours a day..... I think all this CCW talk is a lot of hot air....... Look at all the mass shootings, other than one good guy in Texas 2 years ago,, who has engaged..... I find it hard to believe that many are carrying, yet do not engage, ............... Look at El Paso this afternoon,,,,, are you telling me in NM, in that group, no one is carrying............................ A lot of CCW carriers are full of hot air,,,,,, "
Even if you do carry you're foolish to think you can go off in the direction of the shooting and make a difference. More that likely you are going to get yourself shot by the good guys coming to engage the shooter. Your best option is the take cover and protect those around you without drawing attention to yourself. Any CC instructor will tell you pretty much the same thing.
Bear Spray. Cameras. Loud Dog. AND A LOCKED DOOR > amazing how many people leave their doors wide open, especially a house full of college kids.
We really should not even have to mention locking the door.
