Reissue tags next year?
Colorado
Anyone have any ideas or heard anything about improving the reissue process?
Hopefully they leave it the same but put controls in place to eliminate the BOTS from doing the entire purchase in less than 10 seconds.
What is the deal with buying reissue licenses online after the season start date? Is it allowed or not?
Hopefully they don’t do a thing.
Not broke, no changes needed.
So how do people with job's far from an office or out of staters get a good reissue tag after the start date? Quit job and loiter at the CPW office all day?
Rog, sometimes life’s not fair. You could take a day off and drive to a place that sells tags. It’s all about choices. Leave it the same!
Is the bot deal actually an issue?
Nonsense, they are selling out too quickly. No way people are there waiting for just the right tag, for days. Either the people working there are buying them or they are being sold online, or both.
I did try to buy a tag yesterday. I hit refresh at he exact moment the tag posted. I already was logged in with the leftover tag page up. I entered the code and hit submit. Maybe 8 seconds from the time it posted online as available. It said it wasn’t available. It didn’t even let me get to the cc page. Thought that was very strange. I don’t see how it would be humanly possible to get it entered any faster. Either there was a glitch and the tag was never available or something fishy happened.
Archery tags are able to be purchased online after the season starts...
Ask cpw and let us know, while ya got em tell em it’s not fair NR’s states away can’t run down and buy one after seasons open.
“NR’s states away can’t run down and buy one after seasons open.”
and the problem is?
Bummer the nonresidents couldn't drive over and buy that 61 archery tag that hit the list today
Not sure what that pic is?
Not a problem, I was piling on since we’re whining its not fair. Love the process bots and all.
I just tried to get a tag that popped up..got all the way through the CC page and hit submit just to get a message that the tags were gone. hard to believe 3 people logged in before I did. From the time the tag hit the list to the time I entered the CC, it was seriously within 3 minutes.
There does seem to be a pretty long delay (understandable) between what the list says and when they actually disappear. The 3 tags I was looking at stayed on the list for a solid 5 minutes after I got denied.
My conspiracy theory is the good tags show up during lunch hour mountain time!
And way after season there were 5 of those 74 early rifle deer tags. Only two days left in season though. Seems CPW could get those out a little sooner especially with the thirty day turn in rule
Heck I just want to hear someone say they managed to get one of the better tags. It would be interesting to see how they did it? Even if you are at an office it's low odds.
two years ago.. I got a 'better' tag... not sure I want to divulge how I did it..... But I will say this.. I know guys who live in small towns that own gas stations and such where they sell tags and they will sit on the machine and start punching numbers, usually their own, right at 9am to be one of the first for good tags.. that is not how I did it, but it is one way to get ahead of the crowds..
Personally I think the bot purchasing the tag is a bunch of crap. I've had a number of tags come up that that are gone faster than I can type an 8 digit hunt code.... You want to get one of these tags, man up and do the work yourself.... Hell you might as well be using a live stream camera, flying a drone, automated range riding scopes to hunt too if you want the computer to do all the work for you...
Funny that some say people just like to bitc# and whine because they can't get a tag.... I say It's all ethics I guess... some people will stop at nothing to get ahead...
CPW has no control over private people doing that which is what is happening. They need a better IT department
All the CPW has to do is implement a CAPTCHA in the purchasing page. Done
Good luck they've literally been told for a month now and nothing has been done
Something like that will take time to consider, approve, configure, and set up
With a private company, they would prob already have it done, but the wheels of govt turn much slower. Best we can hope for is they make that change (CAPTCHA) by next year
I’m not a bot so it can happen but got my tag right at 9 a.m. on leftover day. They go quick and this was the first time I actually was successful in the leftover draw
The head of the licensing section just took the SW region manager job. The regulations manager took the licensing section manager promotion. I suspect her first priority will be implementing the "secondary" draw, not fixing a perceived "fairness" issue on reissue tags that sell out in fractions of seconds.
What are you referring to with “implementing the secondary draw”? You are talking about something different than “leftover draw” that is between the primary draw and the reissue offering?
Go read the agenda from the January 9/10th commish meeting about the secondary draw
Wow. Hadn’t heard about that. Sounds like a mess. But what it mostly sounds like is another money making scheme. For any who don't have the time to research:
a. Starting in 2020, elk, deer, pronghorn and bear licenses which are not issued through the regular drawing will be issued through a secondary drawing process if the number of remaining licenses is sufficient to justify the administrative cost. b. Any eligible hunter, ages 12 – 17 shall receive preference for the secondary draw for elk, deer, pronghorn and bear licenses. c. There is no landowner preference for the secondary draw. d. Any active duty member of the United States Armed Forces stationed at any military facility in Colorado and actively deployed outside the United States, or any active duty member of the United States Armed Forces who is a Colorado resident and is deployed outside the United States, shall be allowed a preference for the purchase of leftover licenses prior to their sale to the general public. e. Group applications are not accepted for the secondary draw. f. Applicants for the secondary draw must apply on-line or over the phone following the regular drawing. g. Secondary draw applications must be submitted no later than the first Tuesday in July. h. Secondary draw applications not submitted by 8:00 PM Mountain Time the first Tuesday in July, will become void. i. Except for Ranching for Wildlife licenses, any licenses remaining after the secondary draw, will be placed on the leftover license list and will become available through the standard over-the-counter leftover process. For information regarding the availability of leftover Ranching for Wildlife licenses available on a first-come, first-served basis, please refer to the big game drawing brochure or call the Division at (303) 297-1192.
So what that really means I bet to enter the secondary draw you’ll need a qualifying license.
Of course! Plus 10s of thousands more applicants sending in money. Maybe if this works out we will have a 3rd drawing!
Personally, I am not sure I agree with giving any preference to anyone in a secondary draw.
If you look at the list of licenses available, there is very few bull elk and buck deer tags. The rest of it is LOTS of cow, doe and bear tags. If you give preference to youth and vets - why would the public even bother APPLYING in a secondary draw with no preference? the youth and vets will draw ALL desirable high demand tags if they get preference. There will only be doe, cow and bear available to the general public, and there is little to no demand for doe and cow tags, so again, why bother?
No to mention all the Private Land tags that go un-issued
It will prob generate some interest with at least a few “surrender tags” where people turn back in immediately because they got picked in another state or something else came up. You can expect some really long odds on those tags. And since there is no preference it should not use up points.
The one thing I certainly hope they do is not allow anyone that already has a tag to apply for that species. I can’t imagine they would, but you never know
I'm hoping and assuming those "turn back" tags will continue to go on the leftover sale day, and not the "leftover draw" or "secondary draw" or whatever name they're going to come up with in the future.
But back to the original issue. Implementing a CAPTCHA step for reissue tags would be SIMPLE and easy. No reason I can see not to do it. Walmart computers would be exempt of course! ??
Oh yea and after a season has started and they post a permit, you have to buy it in person. This is a joke...
I'm glad that 61 muzzleloader bull tag hit the list today. Hey CPW how about we give people more than 4 days to hunt.
Unit 10 Muzzleloader tag show up today as well. It was gone in less than 5 minutes. Tell me that didn't go to a CPW employee.
Finally something I can agree with Orion on! I wish they'd get these reissue tags up sooner than when there's only a few days left in the season. I thought about trying for the unit 10 tag but I've never been there before so it's not worth a 4 day blind hunt.
I don't think the unit 10 tag was gone within 5 minutes, FWIW. Probably not worth grabbing unless you've hunted it before or you're a local.
Yeah I don't understand how with the thirty day rule they can't get these tags out before the season starts
Unless I missed something the 10 tag showed up on the list at 3:33 and wasn't on the list when it refreshed at 3:38. What makes you think it wasn't gone in 5 minutes?
It was and so was the 61 tag. Amazing that two individuals were at a CPW office in less then 5 minutes
This is absolutely crazy stuff. Late reissue tags, gone in 5 minutes when having to be at a CPW office.
I’m thinking a CORA request is in order.
Agree, something ain’t right. Saw 2 unit 65 early rifle buck tags pop up.. season ends Sunday. They were gone the next update.
CK - I can't say for sure. All I know is it popped up on my phone, I thought about grabbing it and then checked the list 5-10 minutes later and it showed as still there. I was pretty dang sure at the time it was more than 5 minutes but who knows.....
I believe the stated purpose of making you come in for those tags is so you can't shoot one without a tag and then pick up one on the internet if one comes up. For better or worse, that is what I have heard. I believe the same rule applies if you want to buy an OTC tag after the season starts for any season other than archery season.
txhunter58- You are correct.
But then that leads to really fishy activity in that tags like the elk muzzy mentioned above were gone in 5min. You telling me someone is camped out at the office all day for the opportunity to hunt a premium tag for 3 days. I think not...
I agree the rule was put on place to dissuade people from taking an animal without a license then purchasing one after the kill. The rule makes sense for for OTC tags but obviously shouldn't apply to reissued tags because it is unlikely that the tag will be available to purchase after the unlicensed kill.
At this point the rule as it applies to reissued tags is basically a nice job perk for CPW employees that work in the offices, their friends and family.
Sweet a 76 muzzleloader elk tag popped up. Glad you get three whole days to hunt
Available to Residents only for first hour tag appears on list
Why would you guys not hunt a 10 or 61 tag with only 3 days left? Do you need a honey hole to kill a bull? I know someone that got one of the tags you guys mention above and he killed a great bull on the second day after passing multiple 300+ bulls. But you are probably right, better to stick to otc if you’ve never been there, not sure it was worth the $50 + fuel $$ and all the preference points he used for it.
I've hunted 61 three times one draw and two reissues before they went to the next in line rule. I'd hunt one day but i feel it's ridiculous they can't get tags out before season especially when they have them for a month ahead of time
I highly doubt they have been returned for a month before they hit the reissue list. I think the policy is they keep the funds from buyer one, and buyer two so they take them back ANYTIME.
Some guys have real issues as to why they turn it in, others probably look the unit over, don't see an animal big enough and then turn it in.
Like was said earlier, 3 days in unit 10 might be worth 10 years of Otc, at least for me!
“Any request for refund or preference point restoration after the 30 day deadline will be limited to extreme medical circumstances, death of the license holder or license holder’s immediate family member, military deployment, jury duty”
“In cases of extreme medical circumstances, death of the license holder or license holder’s immediate family member, or jury duty, applications will be accepted no more than 30 days after the start of the season for which the license is valid, with the exception of military deployment.”
Seems to be pretty limited reasons anyone would turn a tag back in after 30 days prior. But we are talking tens of thousands of people and with that many people $h1t can happen! I can see no reason or method left for scouting ahead of the season and turning it back in when the season starts if you aren’t seeing the animals you want . Can’t get a refund or points back. They would get nothing in return. Or am I missing something? I assume is has to be for one of the above mentioned legitimate reasons.
What is BOT? ive heard this thrown around. I play thie reissue game. its really hard for me to believe the amount of tags that hit the list and they are all gone within seconds, however I was able to secure a third season deer tag although its not a premier tag
I have always assumed it is short for “Ro-Bot” computer program that can purchase tags faster than a person.
When you buy a sporting event/ concert ticket online you have to do some things to prove you are not a robot before you can buy them
There is a good thread on rokslide explaining the bot system that was started by private individuals.
where is it on rokslide? but my question is ok so they can create this and purchase but they can only get one tag for themselves? its not like they can resale? SO how many ppl actually have the BOT system? it seems everyone! lol
I work in an automation field, it’s actually a fairly simple script to write to automatically purchase the tags. I didn’t write my own because I also have some ethical reservations about it...
Without a captcha, they’ll scoop up most of the tags.
I’m predicting changes to the system next year, at minimum a captcha. Maybe a lottery system?
Hey CK, I was the one who got the Unit 10 ML reissue tag. I do not work for CPW and nothing fishy happened for me to get tag. I also got a 61 1st rifle tag last year when all the tags got turned back in due to the fire.
And having only 4 days to hunt was plenty. If anything I pulled the trigger too fast on 2nd day. Was within 200 yards of a 340” bull in the first 30 mins of being in the unit, trust me, 4 days was plenty. We were within range of over 60 bulls in 1.5 days of hunting. Most were well over 300”. It’s an incredible place and I was very lucky to get to experience it.
The unit 10 tag was probably not even the most luck I’ve had this year. I was fortunate enough to draw one of the 150 Kentucky bull tags this year. I believe it was somewhere north of 85,000 applicants. Again, nothing fishy, just got lucky. Leave next week for that and am really looking forward to chasing elk in the hard woods.
So explain to us Pono how you got the tag so fast.
Either you work next door to an office or someone working in one bought it for you.
Oh and I got one of the 1st season 61 tags last year too.
No one bought it for me. I have a customer that has an office a block from a CPW office. I had a meeting and as I was on my way and Leftover watch went off as I was about to pull in their yard and showed tag and so I drove to CPW office and bought it. The tag hit at 2:52 if I remember right because I was early, am always early and it paid off. I have the same view as you. I think the CPW guys are buying all the tags and I was shocked no one had bought it before me. I was 20 mins late to meeting but the hunters understood why. :) Life lesson, be early.
It amazes me the same squeaky brakes on every topic want to change something that all benefit from.
Some of you guys would complain about paying taxes if you won the lottery or hit the jackpot.
I hope the DOW doesn’t change a thing.
What's going on Caz is that there are programs buying tags for people. Also, if you are not very close to an office, you don't get a better tag.
Thomas the thread is in the general forum about leftover watch. It's not that a bunch of people have the bot program it's that private individuals built it and people are paying big money to get tags super fast.
Rogbow, just a few years ago as you know, nobody got any tags.
It’s the best thing the CDOW has done in a long time.
OVER 950 tags reissued as of today.....according to my bot.
I agree Caz, best thing they’ve done in a long time, but they could continue to improve it is all I’m saying, a captcha is super easy to implement...
I think we should do away with Captcha for all ticket sales. Just let the Bots rule!
Why, it would prob takes days and prob cost in the hundreds to implement such a dramatic change!! Ok, Maybe several thousand? But prob only secretive govt agents know how to do such a difficult thing??
Now tongue out of cheek. Sure things are tremendously better than they were, but this is an easy tweaking, and I can see no reason not to do it. Can anyone give a good reason NOT to do it. Haven’t heard one yet
It's good that tags get into people hands. That's no reason to skip relatively simple changes that make the process run smoother and squash some common complaints.
Agree on a simple captcha but no need for other draws, lottery etc.
Yep.
I think the secondary draw for leftovers they will be starting is just another scheme to make money.
