It has absolutely nothing to do with hunters wanting to bait or some cute sound bite from your favorite legislature saying how they are just trying to look out for some poor hunter who lives down state and hunts Up North but due to his hectic schedule he can only hunt one Saturday a month from 2 p.m. to 4 p.m. so he needs a big 'ol pile of carrots and sugar beets to sit over or he will never shoot a deer.
What it is really all about are the farmers bitching, pissing and moaning to the Michigan Farm Bureau about lost revenue from the sales of carrots and sugar beets to the party stores and sporting goods shops and the party stores and sporting goods shops bitching, pissing, and moaning to the Chamber of Commerce about lost sales on carrots and sugar beets to the hunters.
I would like to know the economics of sugar beets. I have done some work recently at the Michigan Sugar company...where they process sugar beets to sugar. I was lucky to be there on a day when truck after truck was bringing in beets for processing.
Seeing that....it doesn't make sense to me that the sale of 10 beets in a bag at a gas station really matters to the beet farmer. I understand that they are charging way more for a beet at the gas station vs tonnage at the plant....but the logistics don't make sense.
My instinct is that the farmer wouldn't be affected at all, he will sell ALL his beets regardless. It's the entrepreneurial "beet broker" who has created a baiting market that will bitch the loudest.
I have baited in the past, and I really don't care how someone hunts.....just be legal. But baiting is a waste of effort, in my opinion.
More than beets Roger. You have carrots, corn and apples. Apples on the ground use to be processed into cider but not any more. Now they are waist. Farmers are probably more concerned about crop damage more that selling a bag of beets.
I guess its bad to bait in the UP because it will cause cwd everywhere,,,what a joke...I have hunted several provinces in Canada, ITS ALL BAITED........ There are areas when it is not needed,,, also hunting in the bush, is a lot different than the farmlands, or the river bottoms out west,, know where you are hunting and what you are talking about........
I hunted Montana in the 90's, a lot of it,,,,,, it was great.... to compare that area to the UP is like comparing Buffalo County Wis, to the big woods of Gogebic County, different worlds,,,,,,
Here in lower Michigan, the reality is that a lot of guys are still baiting and with our DNR stretched thin the hunters don’t seem to care. Personally I prefer not hunting over it but I will say it does have its place IF you are trying to eliminate doe numbers in late season. I wish the NRC or whoever makes the rules would just offer a baiting/feeding license for $10-20. Then guys who want to can and can do it legally. Although I’m sure a lot wouldn’t even bother with getting the license or whatever it would be called. It would provide another revenue for the DNR. Just my 2 cents which is probably worth even less.
Hard to believe we have college educated biologists who believe limiting the food sources will make the deer less concentrated. Cannot make this stuff up.
IMO.....based on what I see in the Cadillac area....I suspect alot of folks are doing bait piles. There is a gas station on M-115 that has a great supply of beets, carrots and apples. They seemed to go thru it fast starting in mid-October.
I'm doing bait plots so I can't point fingers. Bait pile - bait plot.....same effect on the deer IMO. That is the hypocrisy of the DNR/NRC.
Lots of baiting and plotting going on in that area, and almost all on private land. The public land hunter is always the big loser when baiting is banned. When they ban baiting, deer become concentrated on private land, the opposite effect of the intended plan to combat CWD. The more the food sources, the LESS the deer become concentrated. A third grader could get that one right on a school test. The DNR and many hunters, not too smart.
^...The private I'm on is surrounded by other private land except for a small CFP section. You can pattern what deer are around using the cams throughout the summer and fall. When many of the deer all of a sudden disappear the last week of September and won't touch the plots, I suspect it's because one of the private land non-plotters started up a pile or feeder. That seems to be a trend I noticed since the bait ban went into affect....at least on the property I'm on.
I agree.....the public land hunter is the loser with any baiting ban. I recently expressed that view to the NRC/DNR folks. To me....it doesn't make sense to ban bait piles yet allow bait plots on private land. WRT to disease mitigation.....that doesn't pass the smell test.
All of the QDM guys I know are against baiting. Could it be because they have food enriched private domains to hunt and they want to suck the deer in from the unmanaged public lands and surrounding neighbors? Concentrate as many deer as possible on their private lands? That is what Michigan calls CWD management, how dumb can the experts be? The only ones largely not baiting ( and including plotting ) are the public land hunters.
^...nothing there I can argue with. If all of the QDM types you know are against baiting....then I'll raise the Hypocrite Flag. As I said above....IMO there is no difference between a bait pile and a bait plot. They both have one main goal.....congregate the deer. In that respect......a bait plot is worse for disease management than a bait pile because you can run plots year round....ie...congregate deer year round.
I have had foot plots for a few years now and I have never seen deer congregate at them. To me they are nothing more than a very small version of a farm field. Now you nay sayers certainly don't hunt the edge of corn fields do you?
I hunt mostly private land planted food plots, about 1/4 acre in size . The deer are in the radishes, standing corn and rye every evening. I am all for the public land hunters having the ability to bait for a month or so, spreading two gallons over a 100 sq foot area. Will have no negative impact on CWD, in fact will spread the deer out over the additional food sources and provide hunter opportunity.
Our biggest problem during October archery season is the early duck/goose seasons. Farmer next to me leases his farm out to them. They go out on the field in the dark and set up, booting deer off the fields early and then blast away at 715 am.
To me the biggest issue with archery season are the early September hunting seasons. They need to do away with the youth, mentoring, veteran and early doe seasons. But they need to sell licenses don't they?
I have a great food plot this year. The farmer I rent my ground to planted 55 acres of wheat the 2nd week of Oct. It has come up really well. It is 430 p.m. as I type this and just came in from outside and counted 5 bucks and 23 does feeding in the wheat back by my wood line.
Jon, this is an approx 3/4 acre bait plot of purple top turnips and daikon radishes I put in this year. I put in 5 plots this year. Would you consider these 7 deer as congregating? In my opinion (or definition), I would say they are congregated and often eat the same tops/turnips and radishes. I have many other cam vids of multiple deer feeding in the various plots around the property.
I do not consider that congregating. I think the so-called powers that be don't want face to face contact between the deer to spread what ever disease they think deer are spreading between themselves. I see more deer closer on the neighbors farm fields.
I will have to write down what you planted though as a reminder for next year,lol.
It's the body fluids containing the prions that seems to be the scientific concern. Anytime an infected (CWD) deer chews, licks, touches or breathes on the plants, his/her prions would be transmitted to that surface. If the science says the prions can last a long time....the next deer that comes by the plant to feed, it can get infected. Deer will do the same thing in a naturally occurring oak flat and there is nothing that can be done about it. My beef is with the DNR/NRC's bias towards bait piles and not bait plots. By fiat...that hurts the public land hunters.
This year I limed heavy and used alot of triple 19 fertilizer on all of those plots. That helped alot. I did all the plots with turnips and radishes around July 7th. I had some monster turnips growing. I threw in some sugar beets but did not see much germination. One plot had a few corn plants mixed in and the deer hit those hard. I might do a full corn plot next year. I have a 6th plot that is a clover plot. That gets hit pretty good in the late summer/early fall. Once the snow falls that plot is covered and the deer stop using it. The property is the highest point in the LP so it gets a bit of snow. Here's a screen shot of a buck checking out the plot. The other is a cell phone pic I took of some deer in one of the plots while I was in the stand.
i can't wait for them to legalize artificial lights and allow hunting 'round the clock, i mean, why not make it really easy for everyone? participation deer for all!!
I've done the night "hunting" with real lights. Turn on the spot light and shoot for the eyes. It was crop damage permits in Florida trying to get the deer off of the ag fields. They are notorious for going after the peanuts when they have been turned over to air dry before harvesting. The hogs do the same thing.
Pretty simple, if you hunt public land that adjoins private with a food plot or ag, find where they are coming from the public to the private. At least they are not a wound spring ready to explode on a mouse fart like they are on a bait pile. My belief is with a bow, most that have the string jumping issue are off a bait pile. I've shot a lot of deer and most do not even flinch at the shot. One time years ago I put bait out during late season, they were ready to explode on the movement of the deer next to them. I have also found that bait piles in the big woods screws up the movement of deer and does make them nocturnal. In WI, I blame the xgunners with the bait piles and predominantly the wolf population for the decline in the deer herds where it is close to unhuntable on the large public forests. I wish WI would shorten the xgun season way down and eliminate all baiting. Flame away, I know Missouri will.
Live2, no flames here. I have never been for crossbow use during archery seasons. I feel there is no practical difference between bait plotting and spreading out dump bait on the ground. Eliminating dump baiting concentrates deer on private sanctuaries where choice food is prevalent, and disadvantages the public land hunters. I am for everyone baiting, or nobody baiting. I have done both types of baiting so can speak from experience. These days I bait plot on private lands in multiple states.
Just to clarify, I think all forms of baiting including bait plots and dump plots should be available to every hunter, OR all forms of baiting including non agricultural bait plots and dump baiting should be illegal. The current system unfairly disadvantages the public land hunter and concentrates deer on private hunting sanctuaries.
i believe that you should be able to hunt over any "bait" that has not been relocated. food plots, farm fields, acorn laden grounds, etc. if the bait was moved, make it illegal to hunt over.
