I’m aware that saddles have been a topic on here multiple times, but I can’t seem to find the threads, so thanks for your patience. For next year, I’m thinking of trying the Tethrd/Mantis saddle. If anybody has experience with this saddle and can tell me if there are any caution flags I should know about, I would appreciate it. Thanks in advance for any insights.
I have the Mantis and love it, only thing I would recommend is buying it early and practice climbing, leaning, sitting, bet a back band and platform as well. The saddlehunter forum is helpfull also. First couple times i tried it, I almost sent it back, now back to back all day sits/leans are not a problem. That being said I think it's jinxed, have not had a shot opportunity from it, I have a feeling that is happening soon though. If you like to go mobile I don't think you can beat the saddle. My Summit Open shot is collecting dust, no more clanking through the brush. There is a learning curve to get comfortable with the saddle, I now use 3 wild edge steps, the knaider swaider thing like Pete suggested and a ridge runner platform, all fits in my pack and gets me to 18 to 20 feet.
Yup....I've used the OG Kestrel for 2 full seasons now and love it. the Flex model would only make it more comfortable.
here are my tips
-order your saddle as early as you can...they all take some time to deliver
-while waiting for your saddle, get some rope and practice tying knots...Figure 8 on a bight, scaffold knot, overhand stopper knot, and learn how to do friction hitches (prussik, blakes, distal, clove hitch) (animatedknots.com is an awesome source)
-practice clipping and unclipping carabiners with one hand
**the more comfortable with ropes and knots you get the more relaxed you'll be
-figure out what your climbing method will be and plan accordingly.
once you get your saddle,
-practice climbing, using the linemans, -figure out if you're more comfortable as a sitter or a leaner
-figure out if you're more comfortable with a ROS (ring of steps), or a pivot style platform (like a predator)
-most importantly PRACTICE SHOOTING from the saddle. if you have any mobility disfunctions or flexibility issues, you have to learn what shots you are comfortable with and alternate methods. ie, though I can touch the palms of my hands to the ground on a forward bend, I dont have good trunk rotation flexibility, especially in my lumbar, so some shots its easier for me to 'walk around the tree' rather than twist as some other might do.
you will have to learn to balance carry weight with 'perceived' safety. I say perceived because I firmly believe saddle hunting is safer than fixed or climber stand hunting, however you are suspending yourself from a rope and harness. would you feel more at ease with some redundancy? do you trust your knot tying/dressing ability to forgo as many carabiners as possible? (ie when I bought my Kestrel the bridge came fixed to the saddle with two heavy steel carabiners. to cut down on weight I removed them and tied in with fig 8 on a bights....then switched to an amsteel bridge....cutting down from 5 'biners to 2 (one on the tether and one on my linemans) saved a lot of weight. if you don't trust your know tying, buy spliced loop ropes and a ropeman1 or 2 (which ever is appropriate for your thickness rope)
start setting your platform JAG (just above ground) to get a lot of this worked out...then gradually move up the tree til your at hunting height.
everyones different. being a rock climber and former steel worker, (no fear of heights), I shot right up and figured things out once I got there. this is Marc, Marc is dumb, don't be like Marc. lol
this all might sound scary, but I assure you, in no time you'll be fully comfortable...enough to take naps up in the tree...or do stupid $#%$ up there like pull ups, crunches, etc...to stay warm or to keep boredom at bay. :)
Pete, should we start scheduling out saddle-palooza NE now? lol
I echo all that is said above, and cannot recommend saddle hunting enough. This was my first year with a saddle and it was a game changer. I took the advice of ordering last year and getting used to it.
Saddlhunter.com was an incredibly valuable resource for gear, techniques and confidence. The DIY section is amazing and will keep you very busy if you are so inclined.
As Hick says your physical condition may cause some limitations but there are equally many solutions. I don't have the knees I used to, so step height is limited. But saddle hunting gets you really focusing on weight and you find ways to lighten your climbing method so that extra steps is not a handicap. The hips aren't what they used to be either but I have found the saddle to be at least as comfortable as sitting on a hang-on treestand. I have begun to have some difficulty with balance standing up in my stand but the saddle leaves me feeling totally secure.
I have an Aero Hunter Kestrel too and love it. I am sure that there are differences between the brands and models but am equally sure that an objective comparison would be pretty hard to obtain 'cause it is all so personal. With that said I will bet that the flex model is a noticeable improvement.
I am ready to dump all of my treestands and just rely on one (maybe a couple) platforms. I tried the ring of steps but it was not for me. I love my Predator platform. One other great thing is that you can set up multiple trees with sticks or steps, leaving only the climbing method on the tree and quickly and easily attach the platform each time you go up. It is really that easy. I have taken to removing my first stick to prevent anyone from thinking that my sticks were just abandoned and taking them. Between attaching the first stick and the platform each time I add less than 60 seconds to a climb which I see as well worth it.
Lastly I personally found shooting my bow from the saddle to be an easy transition but the advice of practicing well ahead of time is well taken.
I would look forward to a Saddle get together next year too.
PS...if you're like Pete, and me to a certain extent...prepare yourself for some experimentation and DIY'ness. I'm going to try DRT in the off season to see how it feels. I'd love to be able to ditch the weight of sticks & WE stepps.
and JOIN saddlehunter.com....thats were I learned all of this 6 years ago, after stumbling on it researching switching from a standard treestand safety harness to a rock climbing harness....already had the R/C harness and bought a $30 SitDrag and was hunting from a saddle in a week. lol
Thanks all for the good advice, I’ve read it all and will read it again. From pictures it looks like Kestral perhaps more comfortable, but Mantis more conducive to wearing on the way in (as opposed to putting it on at the tree). But I realize I could be mistaken. So I was leaning more toward Mantis because I’d like to put it on before walking in. I think. Plus that Mantis setup can be bought as a “starter kit” on their website, maybe would help set off on the right foot. Those SRT/DRT methods make me nervous because you’re counting entirely on one rope. No backup, it seems. But I watched some videos—it is certainly pretty impressive to watch.
Jeb, I wear my orig. Kestrel (don't have the Flex) in on walks from 100 yards to a mile in. I have a pounch on each hip, left hip contains my linemans, right hip contains my tether, my daisy chain gear hanger, and my back band. if you have too much weight on the saddle or you're victim to noassatall like myself, it does tend to ride down but I've found that loosening way up on the leg straps, and moving the waist belt so its above my pelvic crest then tightening the waist belt, it stays put. then before tethering up, I move the waist belt down between the pelvic crest and trochanter of the femur, then tighten the leg straps. it creates the best cradle for your butt.
The mantis does pack way smaller and is lighter than the kestrel.
The mantis cannot be worn walking in when its cold out. When wearing extra clothes it slides down and the bridge is too short to put over your neck to hold it up.
Hick, im interested to know why youre saying to practice knots. I have never had to tie a single knot for saddle hunting before.
All good points above from everyone. 1) practice as much as possible off season. This includes climbing and shooting. 2) figure out your climbing method. I feel like this can be very overlooked. Not having a climbing system you are comfortable with can ruin the experience. Saddle hunting has been a life changer for me. Without repeating more of what everyone said, the one thing I will add is COMMIT. Dont half ass it and use it some times and not others because your more comfortable with your climber. There is a reason all these people that switched are selling their climbers. You need to say to yourself, there is a reason everyone loves these things, I am going to love it too. And you will, but at first you probably wont be in love with it. You will get frustrated learning it, you will be a little uncomfortable, you will be unfamiliar with it and wont have a sequence and way of getting set up. At first, I was 50/50. Could take it or leave it. But I fully committed and never touched my climber because I knew the benefits and knew there was a reason so many people switched to these. It forced me to get into a groove, learn it, and get comfortable with it. The biggest mistake people make is not fully committing to it. Get over that learning curve as quickly as possible so you can fully enjoy all the benefits. Lastly, the one big issue is that you will likely need to get a bigger freezer for all the extra deer you shoot.
drslyr...I prefer a shorter amsteel bridge and converted my Kestrel to it. I do as I pictured above, even over heavy Cabelas outfitter fleece with 4most. so I'm sure the mantis can do the same
I take it you use stock tether and linemans from the saddle companies, BWB...or bought spliced loop ropes??
being DIY and already having ton of climbing rope, I make my own tethers/linemans and potentially DRT ropes.
Plus...its never a bad thing to learn knots...you never know when you will need them. say you hike 2 miles back into the swamp to your tree, climb it and pull out your tether only to realize the splice is coming undone or you hit it with a broadhead just below the splice and don't want to trust the loop.. what do you do? pack up and go home? a simple Fig 8 on a bight on the other end of the tether, use that as the loop, and you're good to go.
The mantis factory bridge is way to short to go over my head. However i was thinking ifin you wanted to wear the mantis walking in you could use the linesman’s rope over your shoulders and ropeman one clicked into the other side. Then you could adjust it. Ive just been carrying the mantis like a sling over my shoulder till i get to the tree.only takes a min to put it on.
This yr i got my first buck with the mantis. I had climbed one of our permanant stands and setup above the seat.
Dans point resonates for me. I'm erring to the Kestrel Flex, but the predator platform and the little climbing rope controller doo dads (you can see my familiarity at this point) on both the linesman and tether. And I can see where uncertainty plays for me. But in fairness, the benefits of having a stand wherever made the climber worth the initial challenge of learning to use it. Now I'm so comfortable, that I know I set up multiple times the past few years within 100yds of bedded deer without getting busted in my summit. I think I could do it blindfolded. But it took about 15yrs to get there.
Playing with and practicing with the flex and my climbing strategy makes a lot of sense all summer and early season next year. Just sucking it up and dealing with some mess ups and mix ups to get it ingrained and have enough experience that I can start to see other ways to modify that will work better for me.
Thanks for the re-assurance Dan.
(Also, when I finally do it, Ill post pics for proof :)... Look for those around Turkey season)
This saddle thing kind of crystallized for me yesterday afternoon, wandering around a new spot for a half hour, at least, trying to find a good tree for my climber. And in each of my established spots, I have a go-to tree for my climber. Which then makes me think—what’s the point? If I’m hitting the same tree time after time, I should just put up some hang-ons.
Ohh okay hick, that makes sense, I wasn't thinking of that. Yeah im just using a mantis and use carabiners so no need for knots. As for which saddle to buy, I am super interested to try to others, such as the flex. But the one advantage of the mantis is that I do always wear it in and because its mesh, I dont worry about sweating doing this whereas others have complained about sweating (and the extra weight) of the non-mesh ones. This all being said, I strongly believe we are still at the beginning of this whole saddle thing. I bet in 5 years from now saddles will be so much better and more comfortable. I've had a bunch of little ideas on how to improve it, I wish I had the time, money, and know how so I could try and invent some stuff.
Well now I’ve gone down this rabbit hole a little further. That Amsteel rope is incredible. 7/64 inch break strength is 1600lb, and 6-inch break strength is 3 million pounds. Amazing. Also, great climbing method would be spurs, but they’re pretty darn expensive.
I did think about the integrity of the tree—certainly relevant. I like trees. A lot. But it occurs to me that my climber scratches them up pretty thoroughly too (this may be unique to my “Treewalker “), and also—there are maples all over the northeast that have been tapped every year for a hundred years, and continue to thrive. I think they’re pretty tough.
So it occurs to me that some of the same factors that make me dislike lugging the climber around might impact my effectiveness with the saddle. So—just as a hypothetical—can a guy use one of these saddles if he’s a little...on the chubby side?
+1 on what Drslyr said about the stock bridge being too short to help hold up the saddle on walks. I switched to an amsteel whoopie sling for my bridge and find that it is great for use as a suspender walking in and can then be adjusted to whatever length I need for hanging.
Drslry.........Don't tell anyone.!.................... I've had this for a few years, just haven't put it too use. Maybe next year. I had a couple of spots this year where it would have made sense versus a ground setup.
It's beginning to sound like a broken record at this point, but I'll say it again, I love the saddle! I have the kestral. I'm not sure how many miles I've hiked with it around my waist and sticks on my back this season, but it's ALOT. It makes scouting your way in and setting up in any tree when you find the right spot a breeze. Cold sign at your first spot? Scoot up over the next ridge or around the swamp and set up wherever the deer are, not where you hope they will be. And like others have said, practice and practice some more. The system that works best for you will develop pretty organically after trying a few things out. What works great for me might seem ridiculous to someone else and vice versa.
I was not going to chime in but I can't help myself. I highly recommend a sitdrag. Three reasons:
1) Cost - Like $25 bucks, $5 if you make it. 2) Safety - Pair it with a rock harness and another prusik on your tether and you are never going to have worry about a failure. 3) Comfort - It is ridiculously comfortable. Commercial harnesses are limited to where you can position them because they are cupped. Sitdrag can be positioned, high, low or somewhere in between.
Then there is the homemade version. Mine is an inch wider than the commercial sitdrag. It is padded and made from 10D Nylon. I also incorporated spreader bars at either end where the connection loops are located so it cannot scrunch. The comfort of this thing equals a lounge chair. Additionally, the padding adds a lot of warmth. Saddles compress your clothing and your ass will get cold when it is 30 degrees out. Not with mine. My butt is nice and toasty. Plus when walking around in the woods it is always on me. I can sit on logs and boulders and have a nice padded seat. Came in handy the other day when I went for a walk with the gun.
The other shortcoming I find with saddles is the lineman loop on the side that gets hooked and unhooked. They are fine when you do not have layers, but trying to find that thing is nearly impossible when you have a parka, sweaters and a camo jacket on you. My loop is big. Easy to find, even when I'm wearing a ton of clothes.
I had a chance to try all of the commercial stuff when he had our saddlepalooza. I really wanted to like the commercial saddles. It was not even a close comparison.
Of the commercial choices available, I think the Kestral is a level above all the others. It is made to last. Heavy duty materials throughout, including the hardware. The mantis was nice, and certainly does the job, but definitely focused on the minimalist. We tend to get a little stupid over weight when it comes to saddle hunting. For me, comfort and functionality trumps weight all day long.
I have put a lot of hours into my gear the past two years. I am very impressed with the level of comfort and safety. Tree stands do not come close in either category. We get a false sense of security from those things, especially the permanent hangons. Those things are death traps. Points of failure at every connection which gets worse with every passing day that it sits outside.
The area you will spend most of your time figuring out will be how best to climb. Honestly, I think it comes down to either sticks or WE steps. Then do you tweak it with aiders. There are other methods, but I think they start to get sketchy and ineffective. Hey, I am guilty of trying some weird things. I am playing around now with a super compact and light way to do it. It will work well but I need to give up some stability and safety compared to my Steps and knaider/swaider combo. For me that method is very, very hard to beat. Super fast, very stable and solid, and light. You have to find what works for you here.
The last part is your platform. The latest craze is the mini platforms like the predator. I just do not get the love for those things. More bulk to carry and no way can you get around a tree better than a ring of steps. I tend to sit more than I lean. Maybe 30% of my total body weight is on my feet most of the time. For me WE Steps are the perfect "platform" because it has so many angles to it. You can put your feet anywhere. I use two. One has a pair of ameristeps on the rope, which give me my "ring" around the tree. I am testing something new now. I think WE Step users are going to really like it if it works as I hope. It will be fast and easy to set up and provide you 360 degree access around the tree.
It would be nice for us to get together, but instead of it being an intro to saddlehunting, it would be a bit more advanced. We would focus on climbing, platforms, shooting positions and other techniques people have come up with. That saddlepalooza in the Spring was a lot of work to pull off. I will have to figure out if I have the time to do that again. We should do it later in the year though, when the weather is generally better.
I will close by saying that I wish I did this fifteen years ago. Looking back and thinking about how I used to lug my climber around makes me cringe now. That thing sucked. I used to haul it in the day before whenever possible. And my permanent stands would get moved around on Sundays. Uggh. I have spots that I set up during the offseason, but it consists of clearing shooting lanes. But when those spots don't work well, or a tree get blown down that you hunt (it happened this year) you just look around, pick the tree, then hunt it. The tree can have branches, it can lean. It can be four inches diameter or 18 inches. Makes no difference.
I am happy to get together with any of you guys anytime so you can try this out. I will bring all my stuff and you can test it out. Pete
Bigwoods great advice for us newbies to stick it out. I found enough remote spots this year that became a pain to bring my mobile setup into. I plan to embrace this saddle hunting no no matter the challenges. Im still in good shape even at almost 50 and think this is gonna be a complete game changer for me. Looking forward to next season
The never ending saddle thread. From the picture you can see that I use the lone wolf hand climber as the climbing aid and the platform. To each his own but for me I found it to be the easiest and fastest way to climb. Partly because I hate heights and using this method I am firmly connected to the tree at all times. Whereas the lineman's belt still has all that slack at times plus the manipulation involved with setting sticks or steps. No extra lineman's belt to carry or needed because you are always tethered to the tree. The platform fits inside one of my larger day packs. Carry an extra tether and you can also work around branches and reset the platform as needed. Some good you tube videos of guys really scooting up trees using this system.
Pete, maybe it's all the squats I do, but I've never had a cold butt in my kestrel...down to 10 degrees. Also, if you set it right, there is no hip pinch at all.
I loath tying on the Stepp Ladder steps as a ROS. You can never get them all at the same height and the always move around. With the platform its cinched the cam strap, cam the platform down an climb aboard. After using Stepp ladder ROS fir 3 seasons, getting the platform has been a game changer for me. I will only use ROS as pre-sets from now on. I'm selling a like-new set of 4 WE steps with 5 step bag as soon as I pull them out of the tree.
My first season and a half was out of a sitdrag & r/c harness. For cost and speed of acquisition it couldnt be beat at the time. But required modifications to up the usability factor (sewing in a webbing belt to wear it in, sewing on molle loops to be able to add pouches, folding over and sewing the loops to make them ridgid - to make bridge attachment and positioning easier etc). But it was all fun.
I live in two worlds: I love hacking stuff & my time is valuable. For anyone not able to afford a $300 saddle setup, or someone who prefers to 'roll their own' the sitdrag works and works well. But for comfort, speed, adjustability to various body types, a kestrel cant be beat.
My ONLY complaint about my kestrel is I was an early adopter and got the very first release gen 1 version, and the molle loops were sewn way too tight. They corrected that on subsequent releases...but sometimes putting something through a molle loop while wearing the saddle is pretty much a nonstarter.
So today in NY I experimented with wearing the saddle while walking. I was gonna pull 4 camera mounts cuz I didn't wanna leavem up till next yr. One of these threads I was saying that I couldn't walk cuz the saddle kept sliding down as I walked. I had said the am steel bridge was too short to go over my head to hold the saddle up. I still go with that. I got to thinking or maybe someone said it here. I took the linemans rope out of the sack threw it over my shoulders and cinched up the rope man one to the other side of the linesman loop. Worked perfect. anytime she started to slip down I just tightened up the rope man one and it worked perfect. I also jumped 8 or 9 deer in 2 different spots near stands I had preset. We had put in some food plots with deer radishes near this area and didn't think it grew well at all after checking it a few times this summer and fall. Never hunted near it for that reason. I jumped deer yesterday near that same area. As I went to pull camera mounts I got to thinking why are these deer here so much. I said ill check the food plot as most of the snow was gone. Lo and behold Radishes, Radishes everywhere. Hundreds of radishes in the food plot. No wonder those deer were there. I walked the plot. Deer crap everywhere as well as pawing the dirt to dig them up. I only wish I had taken a picture to show here and had seen this food source earlier. We would have hunted it. Although the 8pt I killed in the previous picture was within 150yds. of that plot.
drslyr, I started the season off early with a doe. Saw lots of deer, including some bucks, but none provided a shot. Nothing since shotgun season started. I hate gun season in Mass. Thing is though, I really want to take a deer with my inline.
Yup me too Pete. Spent time in NY for a few days.with the TC 50 CAL Saw lots of deer but none provided a shot app. One last ditch effort in NY just over the line. Checked out a spot I hunted 30 yrs ago and it was still hot with sign. I only have a doe tag left so I'll prolly see a buck.
Peter....I was 168 pounds in high school 35 years ago...and I'm only 5'7" lol...my 'fightin weight' is about 190...but i haven't seen that in a long time. :) I'm pretty dense. well, at least my wife keeps saying that. :D
Concerning climbing, I’m a little surprised nothing can be bought (that I’m aware of) that is kind of like a super-small bottom section of a climber. It seems like, in conjunction with sitting in saddle to pull up platform for the next “step,” this could be used both for climbing and then as a platform when you’re up where you want to be.
Have been thinking of just using a rope looped around tree, with a big loop at the bottom for my feet, as a climbing method that will double as a foot-place when at hunting height. We’ll see. Probably I will learn a lot of lessons this summer...
Spike, new to saddle hunting, so forgive the question, but do I understand correctly- you'll be using the Lone Wolf climber seat as foot platform? Can you explain a bit more how it works?
Yes I will be climbing the tree with it and using it as a platform. The pro is that is all I will need the con is I’m only able to use climber type trees. We shall see how it goes.
Spike, Granted you cannot use trees wider than the climber allows, but you can work around branches. Re-attach the tether above the branch. Use the saddle for full support, your feet will be dangling in air. The platform is tied to you somehow, so pull it up, detach it then reattach above the branch. I wouldn't want to do it a bunch of times but a branch or two on the way up is OK.
the thing that concerns me about the climber as platform is how solid is it really against the tree? and the side bars would annoy me.
AFA solidness....in a saddle, moving around the tree to exert a tremendous amount of side pressure against your platform...wonder how much this will take before moving.
AFA the side bars, I like to be able to move my feet when swinging around the tree without thinking about where I'm putting them...having those 45 degree bars would mess me up.
Make sure you put a tether on both the seat/platform you used and your body . I know someone who lost his platform at 22 foot and needed help getting down. Safety first.
Yup. It seems like some backup descent system would be good, regardless of climbing method. I would imagine that one of those around-the-tree suspension relief straps could be used as a descent mechanism, although slow. Also I’ve been thinking about redundancy. In my climber I have two totally-independent things keeping me off the ground—my stand and my harness. Even if you think lineman’s belt would suppress a fall, or even if you rig up a second tether (I saw a video...), you still don’t have complete redundancy. Everything is dependent on saddle integrity. It’s almost like you need to wear two saddles to achieve this. Fully acknowledge this is coming from a guy who hasn’t even touched a saddle. Also, my youngest has seen a video of a guy walking in wearing the saddle. Now he’s asking me when my “hunting diaper” is going to arrive.
Ha! Oh man, please don’t tell me that. But I did see a video where the guy made the case that you basically can’t fall out. But he was young and fit, and I am neither...
Ok, it arrived. I have a years-long habit of completing the processing of several cups of coffee out of my stand. Will this setup allow that sort of thing? Not something I can experiment with in my front yard.
Why did they put orange in the tether? I’ve come to terms with the idea that deer can’t see orange, but humans sure can. I spend half my time in the tree hiding from humans.
I dont think they are big enough just yet to get custom ropes spun. Its probably just what they got from Sampson at the time.
And yes, processing coffee is do-able. Did you get a predator platform? It's way easier with a platform. If you're using a ROS, a bottle may be necessary.
Peeing from the saddle is no issue at all. Number 2 on the other hand would be an issue, haven't had to cross that bridge yet. Next years saddle models should have one of those butt flaps they put in once piece pajamas.
Ok thank you. Well I’m ready for a test run this morning but it’s still dark, so I’ve been looking at it. A lot. One complaint/concern which I had before was regarding redundancy. I said that even if you fashioned the lineman’s rope into a second tether, you still didn’t have true redundancy, because you’re still depending on one saddle. However, I see that the webbing/loops for the bridge, and the webbing/loops for lineman’s rope are completely independent, although they’re sewn together. This is good. This largely relieves my concern. Also—I have watched a lot of the Tethrd videos, looked at their web site, and the packaging that this thing came in: those guys are marketing geniuses. Not to take anything away from their product. You can have the best product in the world, but without some marketing it’s not going to go anywhere.
So I just walked out to my tree to experiment with climbing methods (turns out a lot of my ideas look better on paper), and wow—crazy to be walking with my stand on my arse like nothing at all.
Well, thankfully I’ve been warned on here that it takes some getting used to, because it is indeed going to require some getting used to. But I guess it wasn’t bad. I have about one-tenth the agility of the people I’ve seen in some of those videos. But still, I think it’ll work. It started raining, otherwise I’d probably still be fooling around with it.
Here’s this afternoon’s version of the climbing device. Timber hitch the rope around the tree, and inchworm up the tree alternating weight between saddle/tether and this foot thing. Taken heavily from videos I saw. Time will tell.
One lesson learned is that when trying to swing around the tree, gravity wants to pull me back to the clinch-point of the tether around the tree. I think this would make any between, say, 9 o’clock and 3 o’clock more challenging. I do realize it’s do-able. Regardless, I thought of something like in the picture. Using this “sliding tether” setup, it seems like you could walk around the tree pretty easily, and basically make all shots the 9-o’clock position, or whatever you prefer. I’ll hopefully give it a try tomorrow. What I really need is a lighted, indoor practice tree.
That pull you talk about is key to setting up on imperfect trees. I get what you are saying, and in theory your idea is very sound. However, one out of every ten trees I climb are perfect. They all seem to lean a bit, or my shooting window is not the same as my hiding spot behind the tree. I rely on that pull you feel to set me up into the perfect position, countering against any tree lean or weird position I may get into.
Not sure I am explaining what I mean correctly. Maybe somebody else can chime in. The only other thing I can say is that adjusting that girth hitch a half inch left or right can make or break your comfort. I would not want the "hitch" moving on me. Curious to hear about your results though. Pete
Thank you! I realize I’m saying this from a position of zero experience. Or my experience is spending five minutes one foot off the ground today. Which doesn’t even count, because my hunting height is three feet.
Jeb. Dont overthink it. If the tree has lean and you set up on the down hill side of the lean, gravity wants to gentle nudge you back to center. You should experiment with lengthening or shortening your tether first. A sliding tether is not what you want.
If you set up on the uphill side of the lean when you swing out, at some point gravity will want to swing you around to the downhill side. Like anything it takes some learning.
Pete, I know exactly what you are talking about. If the tree has a little lean sliding that tether around a little to either side ensures you don't end up with all your weight on one foot and the saddle pinching your hip. Experience setting up is the only way to learn how to position your tether, it becomes second nature after doing it a bunch of times though. I'm not sure how well it translates until you actually experience it in the tree.
And it's certainly not a requirement, but increasing your flexibility will help with shots off to your weak side immensely. I'm a dirty hippy and do a ton of yoga and I think it helps me stay still while positioning to take those shots.
Oh boy I’ve already learned that, concerning flexibility. Mine is horrible, and I can already see that it is limiting. That’s actually why I thought of this “sliding tether” thing. But I think I understand the points made above, that the “sliding tether” idea is only going to work on a perfect tree, which I know is rare. The tipping point for starting this was the day I went into a new spot and spent half my time looking for a useable tree for my climber. If I re-create that, then the whole purpose is defeated.
Yea, one sticking is very popular. Easiest with a muddy pro stick, or if you mod whatever stick you have with the rope cam cleat. But I also think there are a bunch if guys doing it with versa button and daisy chain type straps. What ever you do just make sure you practice both up and down a few time before going full height.
Hick laughs, but that's good height for me. When guys talk about the "single stick climbing method"... I love it. One stick, and I can be hunting 5' up. It's awesome :)
(exaggerating on that last one, but, I sure would rather be 5' than 20' ha ha ha)
That’s actually the plan Will—the “one stick” method. Looks great on the videos. But these guys in the videos are all 20 years younger than me, 50 pounds lighter, and 3 times fitter. When I sit in the saddle, I can actually hear the tether whimper.
Jeb that's hilarious man. I keep telling myself that, according to the manufacturers, saddles are stronger than my summit stand... So there's that for peace of mind :)
Ok here’s another lesson learned. At least the way I’m doing it, this saddle is going to be hell on my current hunting pants. Because of the interaction with the tree. I have developed quite a relationship with my practice tree recently. I have some dickies or carhart bib type of pants, very durable, I think those might be my new hunting pants.
Jeb, is the one sticking causing you to hug the tree alot? Maybe some guys have that method mastered, but everytime I watch a video of a guy climbing with one stick it looks loud and awkward.
Jeb, once you get used to it, you'll not be in any more contact with the tree than a regular treestand. the only part of my pants that touches a tree during a saddle hunt is my knees and thats only because i wear my kneepads under my pants. I'm usually leaning into my saddle with straight(ish) legs and just my feet on the platform. every once in a while I'll sit with one need against the bark. if I'm tired or really bored on an all day sit I may straddle the tree, put and arm across the bridge and rest my head on my arm and take a nap.
I watched a little youtube blurb about the new Tetherd Phantom. First, the name leaves me only capable of thinking of the Movie Zohan...
Next, it does look like a slightly slimmer Mantis, with an adjustable bridge. So it doesnt seem earth shattering, though the greater adjustability seems to help set the stage for better use around/with winter clothes etc. Looking forward to seeing more about it.
Last night I gave it a second try. It took me 15 minutes to get my eye-level to about 13 feet. So arse-level about 10 feet. It wasn’t graceful. I have no idea what I’m doing, hope to improve.
Jeb, 15 minutes to near hunting height isn't bad. Unless I'm in a real hurry I really don't care how long it takes to setup, I'm much more concerned with how quietly I can setup, and being able to doing so absolutely anywhere.
Here’s another lesson that seems to be emerging: I think a pair of gloves would be beneficial. I got this “hawk helium” stick, and grabbing it to pull myself up really kind of hurts. Hurts my very delicate hands...
Jeb, what the heck are you doing? Sounds like full contact saddle hunting :)
I am assuming you are still playing with the one stick method. I have watched a bunch of vids on that method and for the life of me could not figure out why people bother. It is slow, clumsy and takes a lot of effort. Every move up requires you to first climb down; makes no sense. I believe that the pursuit for the lightest system possible makes us lose sight of what is really important when climbing.
A successful climbing method needs to be easy, up and down. It has to be safe. Now, if it can be light and compact then you hit a home run. For me at least, one sticking ticks off none of those boxes. The single point of failure (only one stick) alone is a deal killer for me.
Here is another thing to consider, and is a good test for any system. Say you get up to height and realize you forgot something on the ground (or you need to get down quick because you are about to shit yourself). How much of a bitch will it be to descend and climb back up? I can be down in less than a minute, and back up in the same amount of time. You need an SRT system with the one stick method to do that. And I doubt you are back up in a minute; not without sweating out.
Ha! Yes, it is not graceful at this point, that’s for sure. I can’t get in and out of a ladder stand in a minute, to give you some perspective. Although I’m not married to it, this one-stick thing appeals to me due to simplicity (although perhaps at the expense of efficiency), and also because I’m in the saddle throughout (for safety, or at least it makes me feel safe).
Pete, can you refresh my memory - which climbing system did you use this last season? The "I can be down in less than a minute, and back up in the same amount of time" sounds like a good goal.
I use Four WE Steps with my aiders. These all stay set up for the entire hunt, so going back down and then back up is very quick. Just like if you had three Sticks set up on your tree. Once they are up, it is easy.
I just feel that there are too many shortcomings to the one stick method.
I recently modified my steps with straps and a quick release buckle. So even on the initial way up, I am quicker than in the past. And they set more solid.
Thanks Pete. I like it. That mod looks like it's probably faster/easier than tying the knots on each step, especially if you need to adjust the length a little to cam it over. Probably adding a little weight with the buckles but I imagine it's negligible, and overall it's probably less weight and less clunky than carrying 3-4 sticks.
Man, the first time I saw the naider and swaider I thought climbing with them would be a little complicated and clumsy, but you make it look pretty easy.
I think I might break down and buy a couple more sticks. Not liking the shape of the learning curve with this one-stick method, and I’m pretty sure I have the wrong strength/weight ratio for the knaider-swaider. So multiple sticks might be the answer. Haven’t mentioned outflow of more money to wife, she’ll be overjoyed. “Honey, turns out I have to spend some more money because I’m too weak and fat.” She’s a lucky gal.
Jeb - that's a good moment to suggest more alone time to workout, hiking and stuff, to get fitter so you will "be there for the family for years to come"... ;)
Was talking to someone about this earlier today... the whole climbing this is a trade off... either you go super light and small and it takes longer to get up the tree, or you go heavier and bulkier and it takes less time to get up the tree. In my opinion, nothing on the market (DIY or production) will be smaller and lighter than Wild Edge steps with some type of aider. My entire climbing set up weighs 4 lbs, gets me 28 feet in the air, and fits easily into the bottom of my small pack. However, it does take longer to get up a tree than sticks. Sticks on the other hand are just a lot heavier and take up way more room. So what would you rather? Be quick and have to carry more weight and bulk? Or go into the woods 10 mins earlier and carry less weight and bulk? There's no right answer. Hell, I do both. If I dont have to go far, i'll consider sticks. But if I need to sneak in, climb through brush, or am planning on scouting around and setting up in an unknown location, im going Wild Edge. 9/10 times im going wild edge.
On a side note, the guys doing the DRT I think its called? The thing where you use a throw ball to get a line up in a tree, that is just insane lol. Nothing more stealthy than trying to huck a 2 lb metal ball 20 feet in the air in the dark over a limb that you hope doesn't break off when youre pulling yourself up haha.
It seems to me like there’s an opportunity for a saddle-compatible, revolutionary tree-climbing device. I’m not sure what that would be, but I think it’s an area ripe for innovation.
Pete is working on something for the slender, fit, and strong. I’m going after the “fat, sedentary, and weak” market. Whatever my invention is, it’s going to the called “The Levitator.”
Ok here’s another lesson learned, or a tip. I took my first shot at splicing 1/4-inch amsteel, and learned from YouTube that you need a “FID,” which ideally I believe is a thickish, hollow metal knitting needle cut to about 8 inches. Don’t have that, but I did have an old aluminum Easton XX75 2117 arrow from years ago. The but-end of these arrows, if you remove the glued-on nock, is tapered/pointed kind of like a knitting needle. So I just cut off about 8 inches, and it worked pretty well for splicing amsteel. So there you have it. And the splicing is pretty easy, videos on YouTube are great.
Jeb, you can also purchase a package of knitting needles of different sizes and cut them to size. Now you have fids for many the different rope thicknesses. Even better, you can take a piece of wire and fold it in half. Instead of pushing a rope through the other, you work from the opposite direction and pull it through.
For 1/4 inch amsteel I use a wire coat hanger. That is how I build my bridges.
Yup. It's called Swaged aluminum, Jeb. I just bought a bunch of knitting needles at Wally's but havent cut them yet. Aslo bought a latchhook hook nicer than coat hanger cause it has a handle, but harder to do long buries.
Next up is a whoopy sling. Wife says if I spend any more money on this hunting diaper she’s going to spend equal amount on shoes. So all I can do is splice my amsteel rope in various ways.
This is cracking me up. When I visit a fly tying forum, inevitably, folks are using random craft store or department stuff to tie. You will have dudes who just want to go to the local fly shop and drop the dough. For example, there is a tool which is basically a chip clip, but is used for a specific application in tying flies. It's 30+ bucks. It does absolutely nothing better than a 50 cent equivalent from wally world. But man do folks buy up the 30 dollar one.
Im starting to realize that in the "saddle faction" of hunters, reside the same folks who would never buy the 30 dollar tool, but instead would find or create an = or better alternative for a quarter of the cost.
Then there is me:
"hmmm, if a factory made it and it costs 3X more, it must be safer so Ill buy that"
I'm the sucker, who's born every minute :) ha ha ha!
Will, I used to go whole hog into DIY...now I look at it from a value perspective. everything has value, including my time. If I save $20 bucks by making it myself, but it cost me 3 hours I coulda spent with family (or avoiding family ;) ), is it worth it?
some things end up being a labor of love, and by all means, do those....
recently I'm been contemplating making a bowtote knock off to carry my bow when I'm biking....I have all the supplies, webbing, buckles, G hook adjusters, handstitcher awl.....but buying one from bowtote is like $35.....
Hick - you just summed it perfectly. Using my fly tying analogy. The satisfaction of using my craft, but also the artistic outlet of tying, is the value. Any one who tells you tying your own flies saves money is so full of poo the top of their head is about to pop off.
But there are many things where sure, I could do it... but as you noted, It would take me hours. No thank you. How much do I charge people for my time professionally? How much money would I save to do this? If that math doesnt work... Ill write a check.
Funny offshoot topic here about DIY and time. As I am getting a bit older I am starting to appreciate doing things myself, purely because of the enjoyment, satisfaction and brings me back to times way before my generation was alive. Today...... We want it now we just buy it.
I was just thinking about the things I do myself. I cook all the time. I can a ton of my food. I have started pickling. I took up sewing. Hunt for mushrooms (not very good at it though) make my own hunting gear, reload for all of my guns, tune my own bows and most recently started to make my own bread. I also built my own kitchen cabinets and built out two bathrooms, installed a french door to the outside, windows, etc. I started growing vegetables last year. This year's crop will be much more. And of course, I love to kill my own food and butcher it. Will be heading out shortly to try and jig up dinner tonight.
Like my mom said to me a couple of weeks ago, " Where did you come from, because honey, you were born about 100 years too late".
I am trying hard to find the time to live life a little bit more like it was in the old days. Why, because this modern world blows chunks. Can you imagine if the SHTF? Most people would not even know where to find water to drink. Anyway, I digress. Will, but that saddle already!