ebikes in Pa.
Pennsylvania
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I posted this on the main forum also. Prolly get more replies here. Per the Indiana Gazette, preliminary approval has been granted for the use of ebikes on Pa. Game Lands. Non hunters will not be permitted to ride during hunting season, except on Sunday, according to the article. Article did not say when final vote will be taken. Opinions please.
Not in favor, walk or hike in. I've been messed up many times on state lands in spring turkey season with bicycles while working a gobbler. They have put enough tax money into rails and trails for bike riders. What will the penalty be for the general public for not knowing hunting seasons. Will it be hunting licenses paying to post all the access points with the different hunting seasons? JMHO and I look for them to be legalized.
Hell no. They get their foot in the door and next will be gas bikes are ok.
Here's the rope, I'll give you a foot... You will take a mile? The public? The group that did not put in for any of that lands but want it ordained theirs? Those people? Nope, and no.. Make it simple, nothing with an engine - makes the idiots that want to tear it up with quads, atvs and motorcycles simple to understand and enforce.
Not in favor for the reasons as stated above. I had several hunts ruined on private property this past season due to trespassing ATV riders. I think this would open up game lands to more guys than there already are riding quads or dirt bikes illegally.
I had 6 sits ruined by illegal riders... They simply do not get it...
Over in the bowsite main forum there's a thread on E-Bikes in Pa. Below is just a copy and paste from my post on that thread.
I was hunting one Gamelands and it stated to get more mtn bikers than hunters in the archery season. I know other hunters like myself started to complain. Our GL's which are intended to be used by hunters for hunting. Most all GL's have roads built on them for one reason or another. Many lead to places like food plots that deer and other game come to. So now I'm setup on one of these plots hunting and here comes bikers riding their bikes. Well after a few years this GL's was posted no bikes.. Where I live we don't have much public lands other than Gl's.., With in say a hour drive of me I guess 10 to 15 GL's with miles and miles of roads and trails, so where do you think bike rides ride. I say let mtn bikers licence them self's raising money and start buying places to ride. That's what us hunters did to have places to hunt. So if ebike are allowed will this mean other bike will not, well we all know that answer. Now I'm only talking gamelands,, not parks, Fed lands and so on.
So here is my question for you, where do we draw the line?? Please don't say let them buy a license so then they can ride and then have a say in how our HUNTING LANDS are used. Ed
Edit, I'm adding this so all understand the roads I mentioned above are behind locked gates. Not open to motor travel.
Anyone know where the push for E-Bikes on gamelands came from? Some advocates stated it help our ageing hunters. But I'm sure that not only our ageing hunters will use them.. I also know that Crossbows when first came to Pa was for our handicap hunters. So hows that now?? :) In 20 years they 'll be making treestands that you can land your drone in.. :) Ed
I am sure it is the manufacturer's pushing it. Quietkat and the like. Need to expand their market. They sponsor so many hunting shows these days and PA is a large, lightly tapped market. Just bidness.... Doubt "mountain bikers" would use these or want them. It defeats the purpose. I used to mtn bike a lot and I did it for exercise and the thrill of flying through the woods, on a steep singletrack...
Teeton is spot on- "Where do we draw the line"? This will back fire if passed, idiots will interpret this as a free for all on ALL sgl's...
E bikes dont make killing a deer any easier like a crossbow or compound bow with expandables. Im all for it and Ill be on an M2S Kush next season. They arent as destructive as horses and are already permitted on state forest props. The operator must still pedal the bike. Hook up my versa cart and Ill be down 7000 acres of Quebec Run pulling my tent, and riding around for a place to camp and hunt and fish for a week or 2~(8o) 1 knee replacement done, 1 to go then onto back surgery. Damn right Ill be on a bike.
The article stated, no recreational riding would be permitted during hunting season,Except for Sunday’s.
So can a guy buy a license, wear orange and care a 22 revolver, ride in season? Hell if he said he's hunting coyote no orange needed. Where theres a will theres a way.
I suppose your right Ed. I read the article and made a post to see what everyone would think. It may create a few problems initially, but I’m sure that would be taken care of in short order. However, whether we want them or not, I believe there is gonna be a push to get them legalized by the bike manufacturers. All one has to do is look at the crossbow issue. Manufactures put a lot of money in the pockets of the politicians, and boom, they’re in.
I can absolutely see where they would be a problem on SGL’s that are in close proximity to major metro areas, but there are many SGL’s that are not. And let’s face, we boomers aren’t getting any younger, and with declining hunter recruitment numbers, who knows what will happen when there is not enough money to support the PGC. License sales are the primary source of revenue to take care of and purchase new properties. I see it happening, whether I like it or not.
Just what we need, the crossbow users further back in, and crossbows at 10" wide and 8 pounds I'm sure you'll see them. And for the aging boomers what are they going to do if they kill a deer further back in. What's the tow rating on the Ebikes?
Elk Hauler
Elk Hauler
Well what they are gonna do with a kill way back in is exactly why one would use an E-bike. Been hunting 56 yrs and if a bike allows me to hunt further back in so be it. Don't think there is gonna be a mad rush to buy bikes especially from you young and fit guys.
Don’t know Hawkeye. I was just throwing it out there. I’ve never researched them. I just happened to come across the article and decided to post, and see the reaction.
I'm not just talking e-bikes, this push will open the door to all bikes on all gamelands.
New name for our Gamelands..
The Pennsylvania recreational and hunting lands..
Eventually I'm sure the hunting lands will be dropped from the name.. How did everyone hunt the first 100 years?? Ghee
Mark my word this will be the beginning of the end of the gamelands as we know them. Ed
ALARMIST You can't be serious, bikes are already allowed on game lands, don't know where your from but riding bikes on game lands is already legal, they have enough rail-trails areas, state parks etc. there not really a threat.
Just got word they’re now making a version of e-bike for the trad guys. :)
Gman,
Spot on! Bikes are already permitted on certain hard packed trails. That is not going to change. Of course if trespassing is PA's greatest tradition, then using motorized vehicles on SGL's in an illegal manner is the second greatest tradition.
The first greatest tradition is trespassing, the second is illegal spotlighting, third is road hunting.
Problem is how will the state enforce the law? Most ebikes sold for hunters today don't conform to PA rules. Look at the bike posted by Gman it has a throttle and exceeds the 20 mph limit. So is a game warden gonna take it for a ride to see what is the top speed? Same for the Quiet Kats and Rambos. I have no problem with them because at today's price point I don't see enough guys buying them but also don't want electric dirt bikes zipping through the woods either. So if "mild" ebikes are allowed to help so people who can't do it anymore or don't want to do it anymore that is fine with me but there needs to be someway to ID these bikes. Maybe make them get a 5 year sticker sold by the state and put on by a Warden saying the bike conforms to the rules. Also only in favor of them being used during hunting season by hunters (must have a weapon) and not for recreation in the off season.
Where we live near the NJ and NY border the weekends are already full of tourists. Bike rental places are popular on the Lehigh River corridor where they will even drop off a trailer full of bikes so you can ride 1 way. E bikes are fun so now that same rental company drops off 20 riders on game lands during the summer that can't be good for the critters living there. Bottom line I am OK with it if they have a way to limit the bike's capability. Only allow during hunting season by hunters. Bikes have to stay on roads or trails. No bush wacking. Could help many guys out.
Huntabarokee,, great point on the commerical use of gamelands for rental companies. And just like I have to get a tree stand permit. But I think it should be free and just a paper like the treestand permit. Need no non hunter saying their "PAYING" !!!! That premit should be carried at all time just like a hunting license, with the manufacturer name, model #, serial # and watts on that paper. This permit is for the bike not the user, so anyone can use the bike but must have the permit.
We didn't want the GL's over taken by non hunter. Many of them have now been over taken by nonhunters.
The non hunting use of gamelands has increased alot in just the last 5 years. Maybe it's the commercial Companies pushing this. The rafting, biking companies. How long to pay for one of these ebikes at a rental of 100$ for 4 hours. I think we just need to increase our license costs by say 5 buck so we don't need anyone else's help. Ed
I did just read where ebike motors made by Bosch do cut off at 20 mph. These are used by more main stream bike companies like TREK. Many of the bikes marketed for hunting I see use Bafang Chinese motors and do not have this feature. Maybe it doesn't matter 20 mph vs 28 mph just saying if you have a law/rule there should be a way to verify. Slow cruising speeds by hunters on game lands should have little impact to most hunters and should be allowed. For those at the sport show this week stop in with the ebike sellers and ask if they will meet the potential new PA law.
Was at the NRA show and spoke to E-bike sellers and learned controlling the speed is all done thru the electronics on the bike . Removing the throttle meets class 1 in Pa, keep it on and meets class 2.
Slippery slope this is on. And sine there are no motorized vehicles now, what will be the standard for common sense? If they allow this, and these clowns are tracking up and down a SGL in the dark (at 20+MPH), many of the SGL have no guide rails how many accidents will occur? And in bad or ever changing road conditions, pulling a cart or even gear with added weight? Lot's of variables. Just leave it alone, do not open the door for this...
Perhaps we can get BHA to weigh in?
Theyre too busy defending their pro wolf/Sierra Club stance on the main board lol
What ever happened to buying hiking boots to see the forest?
Screw those bike rider city scumbags.
As much as I agree with RC: The "entitlement" attitude in this country is at an all time high. Open the door for this and you know what is coming next.. Full scale out and out dirt bikes, quads ATV's and all the junk that comes with it...... Leave it alone.
I saw on another thread, I think it was a ebike manufacturer stating it was to help our handicapped hunters.. JUST like the crossbow manufacturers said "JUST" for the handicapped... ED
I didn't see where anyone mentioned how much these bikes cost. So some of you older guys say you're gonna use them. God bless you if you can afford it on retirement income. They are not cheap, pretty costly.
Good, I hope they are 50K each, keep the wheels off the SGL's and private property..
I’ve done a little research and found prices ranging from $1200 to $5000. Some are priced higher though.
So 5c, you are now trying to dictate what ppl can do on their own private property. SMH..... Bahahaha
One again if it legal!!!!
BC173, no I am not trying to say what people can do on their own land. Ebikes as well as quads and dirt bikes are the scourge of the SGL and private property alike. Mommy and daddy buy these machines with no place for little Johnny to ride and then get shocked when the police show up with a huge fine for little Johnny turfing up someone else's properties.. The most handed down tradition in Pa is not hunting or fishing, it is trespassing. So BC173, good job by you assuming.
I didn’t assume a dam thing. You said it. Granted, some hunters do trespass while on an atv, but most of the trespassing on private land, on an atv is done by recreational riders. Most of which don’t even hunt. So I guess your assuming that everyone that owns an atv is a trespasser.
Easy guys !!! It's Ok to disagree. We're really all on the same team.
BC173, This is a thread about Ebikes. And my point is opening the door to any of these is the same as saying "ride what ever you want" on the sgls. Give them an Ebike and you will have all the other illegal machines that go with it. And I did not say everyone that owns one is a trespasser. And if you have all the answers, tell me this- When the recreational people (who use the SGL's and are not hunters) get a sniff of the Ebikes, where do you think that will end? Yup badly. Give them an inch and you will get a quad on there everytime. The quiet of the SGL's will vanish, just like the baby boomer hunters.
I know it’s a thread about ebikes, I started it. 5c, google the article in a question. It’s obvious you haven’t even read this entire thread, as some of the things you have mentioned, were already detailed. I’m neither for or against the proposition. I just posted, that I had seen and read the article, and to get ppls perspective. You and I may not agree with the proposal but you can bet one thing, there are many that do. And as far as atv’s on SGL’s, it will never be eradicated. And I don’t care what kind of law is on the books.
I do agree that if e-bike get permitted on G-L's it will be the beginning of the end of G-L's as we know them. G-L usage by non-hunters has increased by I guess over 200% maybe more in some areas in just the last 10 years.
So how do we keep G-L's for what they were intended for? You really think that the e-bike Co's are only hopping that handicapped hunter are the one's that use them?? Trust me they are only looking for one thing $$$$$$$$$$$$. Ed
Teeton, it is kinda funny that those that did not put into any of the money to acquire those SGLS feel they have the entitlement to use them as they see fit, (general public) in season or out. The mineral, gas mining rights paid for some of them but hunters dollars and willed properties paid for them.. BC173, Just like Xbows for archery season, we the archers of Pa lost that because of $ and greed by our PGC. They got a cash infusion we got the shaft (per say). So it is more likely on this as well, if they can squeeze a buck out of it, then no matter how much we are against, it will pass.
5c, I agree wholeheartedly. And I’ve said it here many times. Xbow companies bought the Politicians, and boom, crossbows allowed in the general bow season. I’ve also said, I’m in favor of crossbows but only in the general rifle season. You see, we do have a lot in common. We just gotta wait to see how all this plays out. But one thing is guaranteed, when those companies show up with a lot of money to hand out, you better dam well bet, ebikes will be legalized, wether we like it or not.
BC173, we do agree on a lot.. The battle for archery in PA was fought, and the archers in Pa lost to the XBOW industry and the PGC gave in. It should be in gun season, but.. Inclusion comes with cash infusion.. And yup.. The Ebike will ruin what was a quiet time in our woods.
At $2k for a cheap ebike I doubt you will see that many of them ruining your hunts
BTW camofire.com is selling Quiet Kats for just under $3k.
I spent the morning and evening coyote hunting on game lands 170. I put in around 6 miles total. An ebike would have made it a much easier hike.... lol
Imagine coming back to where you left your Ebike and finding nothing but an empty spot where your $3000 toy Used to be.. ? We can not keep a trail camera out let alone something that valuable.. I called it.. The next crime wave on SGL's..
I just think if this goes thru folks that really dont have much intrested in mtn biking is going to go out and buy these bikes and start riding them on Game lands. And if ebike are aloud so will plan old peddle bikes.
And for the cost of ebikes,,, cheap!! How many have ATV's and Utv's and they only cost like 4k for an atv and 6k for a utv. (sarcasm) on the costs. It really not the hunters I'm worried about it's the recreational Rider. What's the impact on wildlife?? Fawning season, spring turkey mate season. What's the reason you can't hunt spring turkey in the afternoon first 2 weeks?? :) Is the Game Commission forgetting who there obligations are to. No it's not people.
So has the game commission become for sale?? This is the first time I'm starting to think so.
Respectfully Ed R
Maybe a annual $100 PGC ebike stamp?..... I'm still a NO.
Make the stamp $1000.00 year. that will weed out most recreational people. Unless you have a hunting license, then it's $250.
I wonder how many of these will hit the gamelands. Cost seems to be coming down.
I can't afford an E-bike and I'm getting too old to ride my mountain bike up these hills here....seems all the roads go uphill from where you start. But anyway, in SGL 48 the maintenance roads are all open to all vehicles from September 15 to January 15 so what makes a difference with this as it applies to hunting? Most people won't be on the SGL's after Jan 15 as I rarely see anyone anyway...even with roads open. Maybe you guys who live around the urban areas will see more. The now generation can't look up from their I-phones long enough to ride an E-bike...much less on the SGL's.