Crossbow reality
Massachusetts
Thank you for sharing. Sincerely, Signed Xbow hunter for life
Instead of continually bloviating here on the subject, perhaps you should use your energy on the subject and bring forward your research to masswildlife, go through the public hearing proccess and see what comes of it.
Actually MA wildlife can’t do jack or shit about it. See it has to go through the MA legislature. Over the last 6 years all Bills regarding XBows, Sunday Hunting, even the 250’ reduced distance for bow hunters have all been approved. Here’s the trick, none of them have passed the final step of going beyond the House Ways and Means. It’s a black hole. Every year, every state bill of any kind gets voted on, reviewed, studied, revoted on, then ultimately has to pass Ways and Means in order to actually become law. None of the bills we talk about every year have made passed.
Anyhow, MA wildlife doesn’t care because they have no control over this stuff. This year when a State Rep shows up at the Westboro MA Wildlife HQ to discuss some bill, you show up and tell that Rep (Likely Ann Goby or Ryan Fattman) that you support the bill and don’t want to see it dying in Ways and Means. Then you ask them what you can do to help get it passed ways and means. Then do THAT and hope for the best.
DEMOCRACY!!!!
It’s astounding how many people on all sorts of issues are unaware that Ways and Means is used by the Legislature to kill off bills so the state doesn’t have to actually do it’s job. This is why things are always the same regardless of the Governor. The Governor is a meat shield for the Legislature.
Anyhow, Pi, if you could find the latest Xbow bill, let us know which one it is, who sponsors it, and when to show up...I’ll show up. I’ll do the same for Sunday hunting and the 250’ reduction.
Bloviate doesn’t work because we’re all reading this crap...so...yeah.
It’s a good word though. Ok, I’m all done being sober. Back to my booze.
I'll tell you what ,no just no
Fact: cross bows are combersome. Studies have shown that cross bows are heavy and hard to hold on to .It has been shown that cross bows are very noisy when rubbed against brush. Fact; Studies have shown that the use of cross bows makes u a racist and on several studies 197 people from 1987 through 2001 have voted Democrat. *New York Times Fact; The use of cross bows increase the number of gun hunters in the woods during archery season , therefore increasing the amount of ticks .fact u.s. book of ticks and mosquitos Fact; studies have shown that wanting to shoot a cross bow during archery season will make you bald . Several thousand men from 1980 till present day have gone bald due to the fact they shoot cross bows . ie Hair club for cross bow hunters Last but not least Fact ; In 2019 146 people dropped there cross bows from an elevated position more than 77 % recorded it made noise when it hit the ground . Ie; Sir Isaac Newtons memoir Studies clearly show cross bows are detrimental to the equality of life and a danger to us all
Yes, it made it to Ways and Means. Here’s the trick, if it doesn’t make it passed Ways and Means in that calendar year, the bill vanishes, and the process starts at square one.
https://giphy.com/gifs/glitter-toss-xTiTnEHBh7qapyuvwQ
TA-DA!!!!
When Father Time or physical impairments prevent the use of a vertical type bow you'll be happy to use a cross bow just to stay in the game. Time changes all.
I know the xbow will b here soon, I just dont like it is all.When legal for all I may get one .Who knows and for the record pi bald I'm generation x . Let the games begin
I dont like the thought of everybody having them and I said may ! Cmon man follow along
Every single poacher/trespasser/ baiter/douchebag I have encountered while hunting over the last 10 years has been a crossbow user.
Most recent was a "disabled cop" who did not know the property boundaries, had a 12 foot high corn feeder on the land he has permission on (apparently not too disabled to lug 50 pound bags of corn and lift them 12 feet up). I found two trail cams on the property I hunt next door with piles of corn in front of them.
maybe coincidence, maybe not.
I am listening to the most recent Wired To Hunt podcast with Mark Kenyon. He is interviewing Kip Adams of QDMA, and they are reviewing the 2020 QDMA Whitetail Report (2018 data from all states). They touched briefly on the impact of crossbow hunting, and the conclusion they draw from the nationwide data is that crossbows do not have a negative impact on the harvest. What the data shows is that the crossbow share of the archery harvest Pi ;^) is growing. That's not a bad thing if our main goal is sound management practices for a healthy deer herd in our state with the benefits of having delicious meat in our freezers. Maybe we should be more concerned about the sex ratio and age structure of our heard rather than method of take...I dunno?
I think crossbow can be a good tool for recruitment of new hunters, and I don't mind sharing the woods with more hunters during archery season. I will remain a vertical bow purist because I love it. It's my preferred method of take because it is hard, and requires sustained (year round) effort to remain proficient. I enjoy the mechanics of drawing a string back to anchor and holding for that perfect moment to execute the shot. When the day comes that I cannot draw the string back, I will look to crossbow as the solution to keep me in the game. I don't want to have a doctor's permission to do so!
If crossbow will recruit more hunters, our numbers grow. When our numbers grow, we stand stronger against the forces that conspire to end our passionate pursuit.
I vote for crossbows in Mass.
Dale , you touched on the essential point: you shouldn't need a doctor's permission to hunt with a crossbow . That you have to present yourself with some sort of physical impairment is illogical and ,for some, a little degrading. It's similar to when our muzzleloaders had to be smooth bore and scopeless years ago.
Again I have no problem with crossbows for medical reasons during archery season. If your healthy then you should only be able to use them during gun season. I don't care that other states allow them unrestricted I just don't agree.
Loner not looking for a debate but what is it degrading about it?
In my case having to admit not only to my doctor but to myself that I was incapable of pulling a 40lb pull compound when I once pulled 70lbs .Fran, everyone is different and you're correct in implying others may not feel that way; but when I asked the orthopedic surgeon to write the letter for the crossbow permit it hit home that I wasn't the man I used to be. But then again, I was never the man I used to be!
Right on Loner! What if we were restricted to driving vehicles with standard transmissions unless a doctor “certifies” that I am approved to drive a car with an automatic because I have physical limitations? It’s ridiculous. I only need to drive my car from point A to B. What difference does the transmission make, and why must I have physical limitations to use one over the other? Is the vehicle’s method of transmission any different than the bows method of release? I hope I haven’t stretched too far with the analogy :)
If irrational limitations must be placed on bowhunting let us place them on other sports i.e. a 50yd extra point, a 700ft home run fence or, perhaps running a 50yd dash before a 30ft putt. Of course it will never happen because it is absurd. Crossbows can and do broaden participation to help perpetuate the sport we love.If you don't like 'em, don't use 'em.
Interesting point Pi about different physical ailments that do not qualify in this state for xbow. I too fall into that category of not being able to do what i have legally and PASSIONATELY been doing since the late 70's, due to heart and also severe arthritis type conditions. I do not LEGALLY qualify. So do I give up thousands of dollars of revenue I have contributed over the decades to the cabela's and taxes ? On the other hand Im fortunate enough to have 500' setback and can shoot a deer off my porch with a xbow with a 99.99% guarantee of getting away with it. Is that poaching? I will let God decide....
I knew that one of the popes during the middle ages had banned crossbows. This is from an article describing that law. Meant for a chuckle only.
“For much of the Middle Ages, the crossbow was considered to be one of the most destabilizing weapons in existence, not unlike today’s nuclear, chemical and biological weapons.” IN THE 12th CENTURY, the crossbow was considered by many to be a weapon of mass destruction.
Not only was it astonishingly accurate and lethal at vast distances, but its projectiles could also penetrate armour. No breast-plated nobleman, prince or king was safe on a battlefield. Any low-born peasant with just a bit of training could kill a lord or sovereign with simple squeeze of a trigger. Indeed, a platoon of crossbowmen could wipe out a kingdom’s aristocracy with just a few volleys. And that was something Medieval elites feared might shatter the natural order of society.
Not surprisingly, the highest European authority of the day, the Roman Catholic Church, called for an outright ban on the weapons. And the Vatican wasn’t messing around — violating its decree could lead to excommunication, or worse: damnation of the soul. Strong language, to be sure. In fact, for much of the Middle Ages, the crossbow was considered to be one of the most destabilizing weapons in existence, not unlike today’s nuclear, chemical and biological weapons.
Torn labrum in my my right shoulder. Torn rotator cuff in my left. Oh and I've had rotator cuff surgery on my right shoulder. Still shooting a 60lb compound. I'd rather every season not be like gun season, but unfortunately it seems to be coming.
Murphy, my wife had rotator cuff surgery and it was a tough gig with a protracted healing period. Sorry to hear you went through it. I had joint damage from an undiagnosed Lyme Dis. of long duration. Orthopedic surgeon had to drain fluid from my knees and elbow. I was the one who suggested the Lyme Dis. test!Knees healed; elbow bad. Cross bow has been a blessing. It's kept me in the arena.
I'm not against you using one Loner. I'd rather they just kept it how it is. I wouldn't be against a revamp on some medical conditions, and kids. Just to get them out there.
And, I was 17 so I wasn't the brightest. When It came to doing the right things post opt. I remember striper fishing in the Ct river. During the spring run with my right arm still in a sling. I can't even count how many times my shoulders have dislocated, so I'm sure at some point. My noodle arms won't be able to deal with a compound bow.
I'm more in line with things that limit ones ability to draw a bow. Hands, wrists, arms, elbows, shoulders, back. And I don't think being able to hit a deer in the lungs at 20 yards requires any master skills. I think most people try to go way past what they should really be doing. I've shot once all year. Took a 40 yard shot, and hit it way back. I don't know what happened? Really, you can't think of one thing?
Oh great now let people with psychological problems walk through the woods with a crossbow. Physical limitations are one thing but mental issues are another.
Why not group all the seasons together and use whatever weapon whenever you want. I wonder how many would be in favor of that.(I bet not many).Then the gun could dominate both the bow and the crossbow! (sounds fair ?)
I am all in favor of crossbow use when the time is right. Everyone cries uncle at different times ( and that's ok) but I think it's wrong to get a permit unless you have a legitimate reason. I myself have a heart condition, had my shoulder scoped,, a full knee replacement, lyme disease twice, and my shoulders and hands are full of arthritis but I'm not gonna play the crossbow trump card until I can physically justify it. That's just me and how I feel. Flame on! Fran.
I hear you Fran. There are a lot of crossbow users who faked physical limitations . Stay strong in your beliefs.
I agree fran. Xbow is more characteristic of a firearm. Point and shoot. Keep them in the gun season. My 2 cents.
I bowhunt from Sept to Jan.
Agreed Pi, what I believe to be a legitimate reason is just that my belief.
There is a big difference between a bow and crossbows effective range. At best a bows effective range in the deer woods is 40yds.( if your lucky). A good crossbow with a scope and a good steady rest all you have to do is pull the trigger and I bet some people will be taking 80 to 100 yd. shots through the woods. Makes me uneasy to think that is a possibility.
No evidence just common sense. It's way more likely that someone with a scoped crossbow would try a shot like that. It might not be a long range weapon but it's effective range is easily double that of a bow.
Good point Fran, A crossbow user once told me he could shoot 100yds with his super-duper 400ft plus per sec. crossbow in a hunting situation. I hunt swamps and bedding cover where crossbow shots are 20yds and under. It's close up and personal in thick stuff and far away from the unethical missile launchers .
Pi, I'm pro xbow. I was just expanding on what a xbow hunter told me at a social gathering. Some of the TV ads don't help either when they show 100yd shots to promote their xbows as I'm sure it induces some to buy them for the wrong reasons. I'm up on ballistics ,ethics ,and morality and my medical background makes me think that a bright guy like you occasionally suffers "paralysis from analysis".
Too deep for me I'm out! lol.
Here's some crossbow reality from MA archery 2019.... An 86.5 yard offhand shot with a cross breeze through a brushy fenceline.
Want to increase hunter participation? Allow Sunday hunting!
Yikes !! That's not a good look !! Gun season only without a Drs exemption.
bman I'm with you! Pi maybe you should take a poll and see how many archery hunters see it the way you do. All my years archery hunting in Ma. I have never taken a shot anywhere near 60yds in the deer woods and I bet not many have. Any ethical archer would take exception with a shot like that as opposed to being ecstatic. For such a smart guy I can't believe you can not see the advantage a crossbow has over a bow (also the added danger) and that they should be grouped in the gun category and not archery.(except for medical exemptions.} I'm sure you will go on some long statistical explanation as to why they should be considered in the bow category but you will never convince me that it's the right thing to do! Even when and if crossbows are allowed in archery season I will stick to my beliefs as I am sure you will. Crossbows during archery season add a danger that was not present before. The next thing you know hunter orange will be required during archery to protect from being shot with a bolt from some trigger happy crossbow hunter with little to no real time experience. There is a big difference from drawing a bow and pulling the trigger. If you start flooding the woods with crossbow hunters there is bound to be more accidents. I guess I see it from a self-centered point of view because I worry more about the safety aspect than I do opportunity to harvest. As far as head spinning goes you take the cake on that one! LOL You might be the smartest guy in the room but that doesn't equate into common sense.
Supposedly Abe Lincoln said that chewing tobacco was somewhat virtuous because it forced a man to think for a moment (while spitting) before speaking. Vertical bows have that feature—forcing a second or two of thought, while drawing.
So can you imagine a tobacco-chewing, vertical-bow-shooting guy? That would be a very thoughtful guy.
Or maybe require crossbow users to chew tobacco, and we’re all set.
I am that guy Mr Lincoln spoke so highly of .
As irrational as you see it, I’m with Fran. This thread is also getting very old.....
Pi , he got very lucky . If you want to shoot 80+ yards at targets , no problem . In my opinion a shot that far on a live animal with a x bow or a vertical bow is unethical . Way to much can happen in the time it takes the bolt or arrow to get to the animal. I know people can and do shoot 100+ yards at targets. That's pretty impressive. But to think it's ok to do so while hunting ? Just doesn't sit right with me. If you don't think that when x bows are allowed during all seasons that yahoo shotgun guys are going to buy them and hunt during archery season , you're wrong. And if you don't think they'll be taking 80, 90, 100+ yard shots then you aren't as smart as I think you are.
Honestly Pi this board was a hell of lot better before you took over!
From merriam-webster
Definition of bloviate intransitive verb : to speak or write verbosely and windily
Definition of verbose 1 : containing more words than necessary : WORDY a verbose reply also : impaired by wordiness a verbose style 2 : given to wordiness a verbose orator
I rather enjoy this topic. It is currently active with legisaltion under review on Beacon Hill, and this is our public forum to discuss it. What better forum to discuss xbow hunting than this one? The opposing arguments lack in substance i.e. facts, data and evidence, but are rich in logical fallacy. Here are a few I have diagnosed.
The Anecdotal Evidence Fallacy: "Every single poacher/trespasser/ baiter/douchebag I have encountered while hunting over the last 10 years has been a crossbow user."
The Straw Man Fallacy (Misrepresenting another's arguement): "Oh great now let people with psychological problems walk through the woods with a crossbow. Physical limitations are one thing but mental issues are another."
The Appeal to Fear Fallacy (NO NOT ORANGE!!!): "Crossbows during archery season add a danger that was not present before. The next thing you know hunter orange will be required during archery to protect from being shot with a bolt from some trigger happy crossbow hunter with little to no real time experience."
The Hasty Generalization (Jumping to conclusions): "It's way more likely that someone with a scoped crossbow would try a shot like that."
The Burden of Proof Fallacy (Prove me wrong!): "If you don't think that when x bows are allowed during all seasons that yahoo shotgun guys are going to buy them and hunt during archery season , you're wrong."
The Middle Ground Fallacy (Halfway between right and wrong, is wrong): "I'm not against you using one Loner. I'd rather they just kept it how it is. I wouldn't be against a revamp on some medical conditions, and kids. Just to get them out there."
TAAAA DAAAA!!!!
via GIPHY
The bottom line is whether your bow is vertical or horizontal, what you do with it depends upon what's in your heart.
Im gonna get an x bow and shoot it gangsta style. Then its still a vert bow
Let's talk about glands....interdigital, supraorbital, tarsal , pineal and (gasp !) mammary.
Use the link provided to contact your state rep and senator and let them know your opinions on the issues that matter to you. A personal message with relevant info is best and will usually get replied to. These are the people that will make or break what happens.
https://malegislature.gov/search/findmylegislator
Motion to conclude this topic. Have any of you had any luck cutting off the buck tarsal glands and hanging them near your stand? Lol Sorry PI but you have beat this one silly. Let’s take a vote and end it. Respectfully DD
Next up....broadheads and venison recipes! Hold on to your hats!
I’d like to talk more about chewing tobacco.
Sorry gents to bump this up, but one more reply came in via PM. ApexPredator was shy to post his opinion, and begged that I help him to express himself.
