Habitat stuff...
Contributors to this thread:Kansas
From: Catscratch
11-Apr-20
I know some of you guys have land (or access to land) and like to tinker on it. What have you gotten done this year? Anything interesting going on with KS habitat?
From: ksq232
11-Apr-20
You already know about us cat, but we planted a few dwarf chinquapin oaks, some Allegheny chinquapins, and some wild pears a few weeks ago. We didn’t put all of the trees in tubes and I’m afraid the tubeless trees aren’t going to last long. I need to take care of a couple brassica plots from last fall. I’ll hopefully mow them down in the next couple of weeks over some broadcast oats and berseem clover. Other than that, it’s about garden time for us, that’s not really habitat stuff, but it’s playing in the dirt anyway.
From: Catscratch
11-Apr-20
Playing in the dirt is always good ksq! I normally would call you crazy for not protecting your trees but I have no room to talk right now... a couple of weeks ago I planted 25 trees/shrubs in a pollinator package and didn't tube or cage them. I did drive posts in next to them and the deer haven't nailed them yet. I did cage the pears, crabs, and persimmons I planted though.
From: t-roy
11-Apr-20
Why are you needing to mow your brassica plots, James? Is there quite a bit of trash/stubble left?
From: Catscratch
11-Apr-20
To keep them from bolting and putting down seed... and for thatch on top of his oats/clove seedr? Maybe?
From: ksq232
12-Apr-20
Yep, Cat has it right. The purple tops always survive the winter.
From: t-roy
12-Apr-20
Gotcha. Never thought of that! Ours don’t survive the winters here in Iowa. Thanks for the info.
From: crestedbutte
12-Apr-20
These weekend while turkey hunting, we planted 2 apple cores from lunch in the woods at the top of river bank along a river corridor.
Will let Mother Nature do the rest. I will report back in 2-3 yrs. to let you know if Apple tree has formed?
From: keepemsharp
12-Apr-20
They say Johnny Appleseed wore a tin pot on his head. Did you have the uniform?
From: crestedbutte
12-Apr-20
Dave...no tin on my head but some have claimed that I have tin in my hard head, Ha, Ha!
From: Catscratch
12-Apr-20
Lol, might need tin on your head for protection to turkey hunt today... wind will blow a tree over on you!
From: Habitat for Wildlife
12-Apr-20
Hope I can add my MO stuff to this discussion. The last 4 weekends for me I have taken some edge layering work completed 10 years ago and used a chain saw and brush hog to set pockets of it back for fresh growth. This weekend I really got hit by the ticks!
Will probably start working on soil amendments, lime and fertilizer next.
From: Catscratch
12-Apr-20
Certainly can add from other states. Edge feathering and brushogging for early successional growth is great for wildlife!
From: ksq232
12-Apr-20
Dumb beavers take care of all the edge feathering we need. :/ I just with they would leave the mature oaks alone!!
From: Catscratch
12-Apr-20
Damn beavers cause to more fence damage for me than you can believe! Every time it rains I'm in the creek pulling pointy sticks out of tangled fence. I curse them a lot. Need to trap more.
From: ksq232
12-Apr-20
Cat, the local LEO told me if they are causing damage, you can get rid of them anyway you can. I’ve declared war on the suckers several times. We have a watershed lake about a mile south of our farm and our creek feeds it, it is a never ending battle that the walking teeth are always winning.
From: Matte
13-Apr-20
A friend planted soybeans in January to my surprise they are up and doing fine. This cold snap may ruin that though.
From: t-roy
13-Apr-20
I guess this guy just couldn’t take the lockdown any longer.
From: Catscratch
13-Apr-20
Ha! That makes my day!
Matte, never even considered planing beans in winter (and I do some goofy stuff). That's interesting...
From: Thornton
14-Apr-20
I burnt off a couple acres of pasture and a food plot to try to thin out the sumac and blackberries that didnt die from the herbicide last spring. I left over half the bluestem standing for my resident quail covey. Mowed a bunch of locust I'll spray later.
From: Thornton
14-Apr-20
From: Thornton
14-Apr-20
Burnt the weeds out of my winter oat patch. This will be my garden and 1 acre of sunflowers for dove and quail hunting.
From: MDW
18-Apr-20
Like they predicted, looks like some light frost this morning! Got the everything north and west of my creek burnt two weeks ago. Will leave the other side of the creek for next year. Took the skidsteer out yesterday to cut some huge red ceders, found a couple of wet spots and almost had to leave it set till dry weather. Chained around another tree and skidsteer was able to pull itself out by the top bar on the cutter head.
From: Catscratch
18-Apr-20
Nothing like getting heavy stuff stuck and having to let it sit! I'm glad you got out.
The freezes and frosts might have done a number on my fruit trees. Our pear trees were in full bloom for about a week before that first late freeze hit them. Dropped their pedals and turned a lot of leafs black. The apples/crabs were next... bloomed for about a week and then hammered with a freeze. This happened about the same last year and I ended up with lots of fruit so who knows... it might still be a good year for fruit.
I did get to add a pear, a crab, and 3 persimmons this year. Along with a pollinator package from the KS Forestry of 25 (Plum, Fragrant Sumac, False Indigo, Chokecherry, and Golden Current).
I got an email the other day that everything from KS Forestry is half price if anyone is interested.
From: ksq232
18-Apr-20
Might have to check that out Cat, thanks!
From: ksq232
19-Apr-20
Cat, I went to the website and couldn’t find a price list or order form. So I just need to call them tomorrow?
From: ksq232
19-Apr-20
Never mind, I’m blind. I’ll prolly call to order anyway.
From: Catscratch
19-Apr-20
What are you getting? I saw they had Sawtooths again. It seems like they quit selling them several yrs.
From: ksq232
19-Apr-20
Going to get the eastern pollinator bundle for our bees and also pick up some more American plums.
From: ksq232
19-Apr-20
Cat, I’m blind again, I didn’t see any crabapple trees, maybe they are sold out?What kind did you get?
From: Catscratch
19-Apr-20
Sorry ksq, my post was misleading... the pollinator package was from KS Forestry, the crabs; apples, and persimmons I got from Turkey Creek. He sells great trees with massive root systems!
From: ksq232
19-Apr-20
Just toying with me! Half-priced crabapples, yeah right... :)
From: ksq232
19-Apr-20
Good looking trees, and good job getting them in the ground!
From: Catscratch
19-Apr-20
Thanks, and my bad on the misinformation. You can't go wrong with Turkey's trees, but they aren't cheap like KS Forestry.
From: ksq232
20-Apr-20
Cat, is Kansas Forestry shipping right now? I couldn’t get them on the phone, I’ll try again after a bit, might be on lunch break.
From: Catscratch
20-Apr-20
I don't know. I didn't order a second time, just got the email saying there was a sale.
From: ksq232
20-Apr-20
I think they are sold out, nothing is popping up in their website order page except supplies. Looks like I’m a day late and a dollar short. Oh well, I’ll get some stuff ordered next fall.
From: Habitat for Wildlife
04-May-20
A plot planted last fall with rye grain, crimson and ladino clover, winter peas and a hint of winter bulbs and sugar Beets.
From: Habitat for Wildlife
04-May-20
Wider view.
From: Habitat for Wildlife
04-May-20
Second year 4 acre ladino clover field with wheat drilled in last fall. Strutters on it daily.
From: Habitat for Wildlife
04-May-20
Close up.
From: Catscratch
04-May-20
Looks really good! I love mixes.
My plots look a lot the same right now. Big mixes of clovers and cereals.
Here's a recent plot pic.
From: ks chas
04-May-20
Good looking plots. I wish mine looked like that . I think I may work mine up and start over.
From: ksq232
04-May-20
Clover is really coming up in there! I didn’t do much spraying last fall, as a result there are quite a few more cool season grasses coming up in ours planted last fall. I was a little worried, but it seems the clover is coming up pretty well too. Trying to decide whether to mow now or spray with clethodim to let the clover really explode.
From: Catscratch
04-May-20
I don't think mowing will hurt your cool season grasses ksq. Might be good for your clover but brome and fescue won't be bothered by it. I've never sprayed cleth, my impression is that it works best on younger plants? I mix cereal grains in my clover plots to eat up the nitrogen that the unwanted grasses like. Seems to work well but certainly doesn't eliminate them.
From: ksq232
04-May-20
I’ve had excellent luck with clethodim for all cool season grasses, it takes a while to do it’s thing, but when it does, the clover really takes off in my experience. I’ve wanted to get away from much spraying, but clethodim seems to be relatively mild in regard to the effect on the ground. It doesn’t do a thing to the weeds, but the deer seem to take care of the weeds for me. :)
From: Catscratch
04-May-20
Deer do love forbs! I may have to order a jug of cleth and give it a try. I would wait until July so that my wheat would have a chance to head out though.
From: ksq232
04-May-20
That’s what I’m trying to decide, winter rye is already headed out, but not mature. The awnless wheat is a little behind. If I wait too long the cool season grasses will go to seed too.
From: Catscratch
04-May-20
I don't care about the rye heads, I see little benefit to them. I do however love the awnless wheat to head out. My traditional plan has been to just start the plot over when the cool season stuff gets to thick for my liking. Depending on the weather and plot, that might mean my clover only gets a year or two old before I'm starting it over, or up to 5 years on a plot.
From: Habitat
04-May-20
I use volunteer instead of ordering cleth because i can buy at coop
From: Habitat for Wildlife
04-May-20
Good stuff guys. I try and let my rye grain head out and mature before mowing. I get some volunteer plants that fall on many occasions if timed with some luck.
From: Catscratch
04-May-20
"Volunteer"... I'll look next time I'm at a COOP (I hate ordering stuff for some reason).
From: Habitat for Wildlife
04-May-20
Catscratch,
'Volunteer' is not a variety. I mean if I wait until maturity before mowing, some seed that falls on the ground will germinate when conditions are right.
From: Catscratch
04-May-20
"Volunteer" is a grass selective herbicide that Habitat suggested in lieu of cleth. I can pick it up locally rather than by mail.
A couple of better pics of the clover plot...
From: Habitat for Wildlife
04-May-20
My bad.
Great looking plots!
From: Catscratch
04-May-20
No problem (like you said, the term does usually refer to letting a crop go back to seed)... and thanks!
From: Thornton
04-May-20
Burnt off another BlackBerry patch the other day (left of the plane tire). What herbicide works best to keep them down? Tried 24D last year on the new shoots and it knocked them down some but they keep spreading.
From: cherney12
04-May-20
Plow it and plant grass if you can get a tractor back in there.
From: cherney12
04-May-20
Plow it and plant grass if you can get a tractor back in there.
From: ksq232
04-May-20
We have used remedy with some success. It’s the go-to for ranchers around here.
From: Habitat for Wildlife
04-May-20
Yes, Remedy Ultra has worked good for me as well and does not hurt your grasses.
From: crestedbutte
04-May-20
Thornton....is that the portion that looks like an oven mitt? If so, that is a pretty good sized blackberry patch!
From: Thornton
04-May-20
Cherney- there is very good grass back there. It was so tall last year I could hardly see the bucks moving through it from 75 yards. Here its last September I believe next to a deer bed. I've tilled part of it as well and they keep spreading. Crestedbutte- the patch is actually quite a bigger than that fresh burn. You can see the other burns growing back next to it. I'll try Remedy. I used it on serecea lespedeza the first year I bought the place.
From: Thornton
05-May-20
My next problem is my cedars are dying. Dozens have sprouted up in the last few years and many are turning brown and withering. The large cedars have bag worms and they seem to be eating the green sprouts but not affecting the tree as bad. Do I have a fungus problem? Thanks
From: ks chas
06-May-20
Good info on Clethodim and Volunteer I will check them out. My clover patches are over grown with grass.
From: crestedbutte
06-May-20
Thornton....you must not be grazing cattle or you wouldn’t be concerned with cedars dying, right?
From: Catscratch
06-May-20
I spend time removing them and slowing their encroachment. With that said a don't mind having A FEW of them around. I have no clue what is hurting yours Thorton. I've never seen disease hurt them around here. Maybe something new or regional? Can you spread it to my place? :)
I hit blackberry with triclopyr, but I don't have any big patches of it just little stuff that I knock back before it takes a stronghold. You might look at Milestone. It might be listed for blackberry, but make sure you research it's residual and know what you're getting into. Might not have broadleaf forbs for a season...
From: Habitat
06-May-20
I have never seen a issue like that with cedars unless really dry then sometimes the young die when in light soil.For bag worms I spray with bafin and it does a good job.I have some planted in switch and I would bet there is a deer bed under 90% of them at least
From: Habitat
06-May-20
Anyone ever bought any seed from Pure Air Natives,looks like they do mostly native flowers and forbs
From: Thornton
07-May-20
Got rained out of mowing yards so I jetted to the farm ahead of the storm today. Tilled and planted 1 acre of sunflowers. I will probably add foxtail millet and wheat to it.
From: Thornton
07-May-20
Several quail were in and around the plot. I hope I didnt disturb any nests.
From: writer
07-May-20
When is the best time to use clethodim?
From: Catscratch
07-May-20
Writer, I've never used cleth but I've talked to many who say the grass should be young and actively growing to get good results. They also say it's slow to see results... be patient after spraying.
From: KsRancher
07-May-20
Thornton. I have hardly ever seen anything but bagworms kill a natural native cedar. Not saying that's what it's got to be. But I would guess it's the bagworms.
From: doubledrop
08-May-20
I second the Clethodim. I have not had the good fortune of getting mine on as early as I would like in past years, but I run a trail camera on most of my plots and if you setup a time lapse or just breeze through photos following, it is fun to see that grass slowly die and the clover jumps. I have extended plots up to 6-8 years with some extra frost seeding in-between years. Sprayed mine a couple weeks ago and that's probably as early as I have ever, but wish I had hit it when the grass was a bit earlier in growth stage.
From: Habitat
08-May-20
Using a grass selective herbicide be sure and add crop oil,seems after about 10 days my grass starts changing colors.the younger grass the better.
From: ks chas
09-May-20
My COOP didn't have Clet or volunteer but the chemical Co. 12 miles away has Clethodim in2 1/2 gal jugs so I just picked one up. How are you guys mixing it and how heavy are you putting it on.
From: ks chas
09-May-20
I just realized I forgot the crop oil. Is that to help the Clet stick to the plants? How much do you use ? Will liquid soap work as a sub ?
From: doubledrop
11-May-20
ks chas, I like 1/2 oz. per gallon, but I know guys that go higher. I'm just always a bit nervous to go too strong but 1/2 oz. has worked good for me in the past. Checked one of my plots I sprayed a couple weeks back and the clover jumped bigtime since spraying clethodim. Its about like applying fertilizer as the competing grasses rob so much from the clover.
From: ksq232
11-May-20
Put in some crabapples from Northern Whitetail Crabapples. I was very impressed with the trees and when I checked on them a week ago, they were already leafed out. I also managed to get a few leftover American plums from Kansas forestry, I was very impressed with their roots too, and they also leafed out very quickly after getting them in the ground. I got 25 plums for $17 shipped, can’t beat that!
From: ks chas
11-May-20
Thanks Dylan That's what I will try . Does 1 1/2 - 2 oz of crop oil per gal sound about right? Then put that mix on at about 20 gal per acre ?
From: Habitat
12-May-20
The crop oil I use is hotter than that I believe I put about four oz per 15gal tank as that is about what I spray per acre
From: crestedbutte
12-May-20
KSG232....do you think deer could raise up and rest their front legs on or bend down the top of your tree cages and thus continually prune those new tender crabapple and plum trees down a couple of feet? I know the cage will help deter damage from smaller animals and future deer rubs but should the cages be another 1'-2' taller.....thoughts or past experiences?
From: ks chas
12-May-20
Habitat what crop oil are you using? When I went to my COOP I told them I wanted crop oil and the sold me 2 1/2 gal of "Class Act" When I called the manufacture about mixing rates they told me that class act is not a crop oil. So now Im once more shopping and hoping I can find it in gal size so I don't have to get 2 1/2 gal
From: doubledrop
12-May-20
The crop oil I use is also much hotter. It calls for 1 Pint(16 oz.) per 100 gallons if I remember right. I just put approx. 4 ounces in my 25 gallon sprayer.
From: Habitat for Wildlife
12-May-20
I have always used at least a cup in my 50 gallon PTO sprayer. The cost is low, and I have used liquid soap when I ran out of surfactant. GL.
From: Thornton
18-May-20
I may have to use a seed drill. I broadcast an acre of sunflowers mixed with wheat for the birds and the torrential rain hit a few days later. I visited the plot a few days ago and dozens of birds were picking at the exposed seed. Saw doves, quail, songbirds, and this gobbler with his hens. He's so used to seeing me on my 4 wheeler now, he just wanders off and watches me from a distance.
From: ksq232
18-May-20
Crested, 5 and 6 foot cages have served me very well up to this point. I don’t know why, but the cages seem to repel the deer in our area. They could easily get through some of the chicken wire cages I’ve put up in the past, but they’ve never bothered them. That’s going on about 12 years experience so far.
From: Catscratch
19-May-20
Thorton, did you broadcast that seed onto tilled ground? If so that seed is super easy to see and attracts critters from all around. When I do Throw n Mow there is a layer of thatch on top of broadcast seed that helps keep seed predation down. If you are planting on tilled ground you should consider a seed drill, but if you are planting mixes of different sized seed then that is more difficult due to multiple passes and setting changes. If that was the case I would consider broadcasting the seed and then going over it with a drag or spring-tooth to get some of it off the surface.
From: Thornton
19-May-20
I roughed the ground up with the tractor and 4 wheeler. It's always worked well but this is a new plot area on top of a hill. It's a regular bird magnet. I may try the thatch method
From: Catscratch
19-May-20
Thorton, the TnM method works really well for me... but it takes planning and lots of vegetative growth to get it to work (as well as timely rain). If you currently have bare dirt I doubt you can grow enough vegetation to get the thatch that you will need in time to put in a summer crop before it gets hot and dry. I don't like to disturb the soil, but if you have the situation that I think you do it would probably be safest to work the ground a little more, broadcast seed, then re-work the ground again to bury some of the seed. If possible do it before this weekend's forecasted rain.
From: Habitat for Wildlife
20-May-20
The clover is now a foot tall with deer beds it in every where. My farmer will be planting beans in this and will green manure this first by discing it under instead of spraying.
We have had to use approaches like that over the last 13 years to improve the soil. Thornton, it may be worthwhile to think about long term and how to approach improving that soil if you have not already done so. My farmer has given me some great advice through the years and the results are really starting to show it. GL.
From: Mark S
20-May-20
KSG232 - I recognize those trees. I planted 25 last fall from Terry @ NWT and another 50 a month ago - they are nice trees with good roots. the one from Catscratch from Turkey Creek is very impressive too. Thornton and Habitat - really impressive stuff - kudos to you both. Like to do things that benefit pollinators, song birds and hummingbirds too. Really nice to see them.
