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Who is right and who is wrong????

My mom is 74 and it is nice to be able to bow/crossbow hunt with her during the rut.

Personally, they will have to pry my compound out of my cold dead hands.

And for those who truly believe that CB is the same as a compound are dreaming. My 7 year old son nailed the bullseye at 20 yards on his first ever shot with my mom’s crossbow. He could affectively hunt with the CB at 7 years old but it will be several years before he can get his poundage up high enough on his compound.

My point is that he has the physical ability to shoot a crossbow on a rest was great accuracy. Accurate enough to kill a deer.

He cannot shoot his 25 lb crossbow with the same accuracy. Not with enough poundage or accuracy to kill a deer.

So my point is that crossbow and compound bow do not have the same learning curve. Not even close.

25 LB. compound bow.

25 LB. compound bow.

It should be a similar course to bow and they could even combine the two courses for that matter.

Also, why don’t you need a bow course to Small Game or Turkey hunt in NY with a bow? That seems odd too.

The first paragraph is misleading here.

https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/92278.html

3. Crossbow Hunting DEC supports the use of crossbows for deer hunting during the same timeframes, in the same manner, and with the same eligibility requirements as with vertical bows.

The crossbow hunting law enacted in 2012 does not address deer management needs and is inconsistent with hunter preferences. Specifically, overabundant deer populations in portions of the state where hunting access or firearm use is restricted, such as Suffolk and Westchester Counties and WMUs 4J and 8C in Albany and Monroe Counties respectively, may cause serious impacts on forest regeneration, biodiversity protection, and public health. However, current law expressly prohibits crossbow use in these areas. Moreover, limited time for crossbow use and the arbitrary difference in the legal setback distances for discharge of vertical bows (150 feet from certain structures) and crossbows (250 feet) unnecessarily constrain effective use of crossbows for deer management throughout the state.

Support for increased crossbow use appears to be growing among New York hunters. A 2010 survey of hunters found that a majority of deer hunters supported crossbow use for all hunters during seasons when other bowhunting equipment is allowed (51%) and more so for seniors (68%) and hunters with disabilities (78%; Enck et al. 2011). In a 2018 survey, DEC found that 61% of respondents who do not own a crossbow would acquire and use a crossbow for hunting if crossbows were allowed during the entire bow season. Further, a majority (61%) preferred that crossbow use be tied to bowhunting privileges, and a similar majority (60%) of hunters indicated that crossbows should be allowed in Suffolk and Westchester Counties and in WMUs 4J and 8C.

DEC recommends that crossbows be allowed during all hunting periods when other bowhunting equipment is allowed and that eligibility to hunt with a crossbow be the same as eligibility to hunt with a vertical bow. DEC further recommends that the restrictions on crossbow size (e.g., minimum limb width) and maximum draw weight be removed from law so that the agency can set more appropriate standards which are effective and humane for deer hunting and consistent with crossbow technology

Looks like they are also leaning towards establishing antler restrictions statewide over time, getting more antlerless deer shot in the "hotspots" and eventually forcing the use of non-lead bullets.

Looks like they are also leaning towards establishing antler restrictions statewide over time, getting more antlerless deer shot in the "hotspots" and eventually forcing the use of non-lead bullets.

Not saying I agree with this, but a significant problem is the lack of powerful "hunter" groups. Besides NY Bowhunters, what other groups do you know of? How many of you are members of any groups? Probably a fair amount are members of "Fish and Game" clubs, but beyond paying annual dues what involvement do you have with them? Do any of you participate in your county conservation council meetings? How many of you know what NYS Conservation Council is? Ever seen the average age of many of these groups - it's often those in their 60s and 70s. They have years of experience, contacts, etc, but also are often fixed in their "ways" and lack social media skills so important today. Some "young blood" would certainly help them accomplish more. Yes, everyone has a busy life, but airing your gripes on an internet forum isn't going to fix the issues.

Fee Actions • Expand Hunting and Crossbow Licensing. The Budget includes expanding the existing crossbow season and increasing the pool of possible big game hunters to 12-and 13 year-olds to encourage and expand outdoor recreation.

**NYS Assembly bill A01299 (no Senate equivalent yet) summary:

- 12/13 year olds allowed to hunt with a crossbow

- with BOWHUNTING privilege allows 12-17 year olds to hunt deer/bear with bow or crossbow during special archery and regular seasons.

- With BOWHUNTING privilege, allows one 55 years old or older, or physically unable to draw a longbow, to hunt deer/bear with a crossbow during special archery seasons.

- MUZZLELOADER privilege NO LONGER allows use of crossbow. (******)

- Small game and upland birds allowed to be taken with crossbow.

- CROSSBOW specs change – minimum limb width ELIMINATED, maximum peak draw weight ELIMINATED,

- “BOWHUNTER” education and/or current bowhunting privilege required to hunt with CROSSBOW.

- NYSDEC authorized to “adopt regulations which authorize the taking of wildlife by the use of crossbow…..”

- CROSSBOW minimum “setback” is reduced from 250 to 150 feet, just like a bow.

**NYS Assembly bill A00238 (same as Senate bill S01721) appears to be almost identical, with one exception:

- with BOWHUNTING privilege, allows one 18 YEARS OLD AND OLDER to hunt deer and bear with crossbow during special archery season. (It does not reference physically unable or those 55 and older).

Fact - A crossbow is not as effective as some say they are. They are very accurate at 50-60 and beyond that it gets dicey. A compound is very accurate to 30 in capable hands - IMO. So you pick up an additional 20-30 yards by using a crossbow.

Fact - A crossbow is nowhere near as effective as a muzzleloader. An Inline is extremely accurate at 200. No crossbow comes close to it.

Fact - Crossbows bring a lot of rifle hunters into an already crowded archery season. In Connecticut, they added 30% more hunters to the archery season the day crossbows were legalized.

Fact - more bucks will get killed when you add 30% more hunters into archery. Its simple math. And they will be using the first of their two tags.

Fact - over time, the percent of crossbow hunters will grow and the compound hunters will shrink. In Ohio, it's 50/50, same in CT. So you may add 30% more hunters, but 20% of existing compound shooters will want the easier kill so they will switch. The result = more bucks killed.

Fact - In NY's northern zone, there is a pitiful 2-week archery season. The firearms guys get 5-6 weeks including muzzleloader. Adding 30% of those rifle hunters into that ridiculously short archery season won't make the experience any better. I imagine the Southern zone will experience additional pressure as well.

So like I said, I agree with some of your points. I also believe it will negatively affect the quality of the archery season after seeing what happened in CT. It's not the end of the world, but it will affect the compound guys - no doubt. If NYDEC provided some concessions, like shortening the NZ rifle season and expanding the bow season to say 4 weeks, then the trade off would be acceptable to me. The way it is now, NY sucks for bowhunters. Unfortunately, your DEC is not managing the herd based on science, they are managing for politics.

I’ve given up on the NYSDEC doing the right thing in regards to deer management, and hunting small woods/Ag land with the drama that goes along with those areas. I now spend most of my season hunting the unpressured big woods of Tug Hill and the ADKs and have much more fun doing it. And in the last 4 years I have taken the biggest bucks of my life in NY.

There are provisions that come with this.

12-13 year olds must be supervised by an adult, licensed hunter with at least 3 years of experience. Either a parent, guardian, or mentor with parental permission.

Both hunter and adult supervisor must wear flo-orange or flo-pink, and must hunt from ground level at all times.

This Pilot Program requires that counties "opt-in" by having a town hall meeting about it, giving information, then enacting local law ECL 11-0935 if the county agrees to do it. Counties excluded from participating are all 5 boroughs of NYC, Nassau, Suffolk, and Westchester.

NY has a 6 week gun season, and 2 week bow season in the north, plus 2 buck tags. It’s ridiculous. If everyone got 1 buck tag crossbows would be much less impactful.

I’m truly amazed at your DEC and their idea of managing deer in what could be a fantastic state.

But I’m not 100% sure all the DEC biologists are on the side of hunters and trappers. My conversation with the furbearer biologist 8 years ago was like talking to a guy with a greenpeace membership. And the deer biologist wasn’t much better.

They support and promote these management policies in NYS. At least that’s my opinion after talking to both of them.

It’s not the same as a bow. I just watched a 6 year old on TV kill a buck at 40 with a Raven Xbox mounted on a tripod from a blind.

Not happening with a compound.

In states where xbows are allowed in archery they soon become the overwhelming dominant implement.

In my NZ area it probably won’t make any difference. Deer are already decimated by the long regular season. But in the southern zone it’s gonna have an impact and you guys don’t need any more pressure on the bucks there.

My 2c

However, the Ohio deer program is so well run that I don't worry about the crossbow guys taking too many deer.

Tell you what - if NY adopts the season structure, one buck tag, and straight wall/shotgun only - I'll support crossbows. Putting them in NY's bow season with the pathetic deer management program will all but wreck what little benefit there is to NY's archery season.

I teach both Firearm and Bow Hunter Ed, many if not most of the new certified Archery Hunters get into it intending to use a crossbow. It’s no longer considered more difficult (or requiring more time to get proficient) than firearm hunting.

It’s not a matter of wanting to limit competition with other hunters, it’s limiting wasting or over taxing the resource.

I have no problem with allowing them for hunters that are disabled or reach a certain age. I may be there one day.

The big difference between Ohio and NY is Ohio has a remarkable deer management program. NY’s program is a joke. The bow season is too short and rifle is far too long. So leave crossbows out of the bow season. It’s bad enough already. My 2c

They are unwilling or unable to properly manage the deer herd.

I also find it ironic how many use ones that are not NY compliant. Like everything NY, we have too many rules and zero enforcement which fosters a poor culture. The DEC owns the poor culture part....they aren't managing anything for anyone. They are just another overly controlled, understaffed, DEI superpower of an ineffective state government... No one care about the herd, habitat, hunters or outcome from the government side and amongst our ranks the vast majority are idiots, uneducated, selfish or a combination of those. "If its legal" is the coloring book version of literary work. "The DEC says" is like quoting McDonalds on nutrition.

Try not to be in the cast of the "Wizard of Oz" and enjoy yourself.

Where NYS hunting goes sideways is the fact we cannot understand why hunting here is bad but continue to yell we want more of our desires met?

When I buy things I know my account balance, how many of you have a clue how many deer are in the area you want or don't want a new weapons season in? That is the argument the state will make though they don't have a clue about any numbers anywhere, while their actual goal is pacify the whining public members under the auspice of "more license dollars" in Albany where "deer vs dear" is perplexing.