Gen - 2 quality Recurves that shot smooth . Alum. Arrows . Big improvement.
Gen - 3 Compound Bows that improve every year . Carbon fiber arrows . Big division among bowers for years.
Gen - 4 Crossbows , 20 inch Bolts . Aimpoint or Scope . 100 yard range.
I noticed that we have lost a bunch of regular bowsiters the past 2 years . During my year away from bowsite I did some research. Most of them switched to Crossbows & left us .
I talked to 6 of them who knew they were no longer welcome . We also have some regular posters that now use Crossbows but avoid the subject. There's a lot more I,m sure .
Time to get along & support each other .
We need to accept that GEN -4 is here to stay . Total Hunter # are dropping every year . We need to stay united & welcome ( Gulp ) ALL Bowhunters no matter what GEN they are .
Yes, total numbers are dropping, but I'm absolutely positive it's not going to be fixed by any measure of modernization of equipment. As a matter of fact, becoming modern is exactly why numbers are dropping. I can explain a few factors why the idea of kumbaya will never happen.
1. We are buying up all land, and privatization is/will/has hurt hunting through lack of good opportunity for upandcomers to access good land, and the opportunity to kill game animals that truly keep them interested.
2. Youth today is not the youth of last year, the year before, or 50 years ago. Many of our mentors hunted for food. The desire for the hunt was driven by need. Today, we can likely purchase food easier and less expensive than it would cost us to kill food, if we added up all the cost. Today, the driver is the lust of horn, and sorry to burst most of our bubbles, it's for bragging rights. I can admit it. Well, our adult decision to hunt for trophies is not fair to our youth. When I was young, any deer was worthy of congratulations. Today, people sadly look past the little basket rack, and those deer should be embraced, so the new hunters don't feel shame.
3. Social media, algorithms, confirmation bias, likes, tweets, are all mind-bending things that more people are into. This immediate attention is unfortunately as addictive as any drug, and whether we are aware of it or not, this is what drives most people. I'm confident most people's own narratives, are actually created for us by these outside influences. Hunting is awesome, success is the culmination of it all, but it is hardly the instant gratification that the devil of the smartphone is, and what artificial intelligence through social media provides. Basically, there's a sad illness affecting the vast majority of us all.
4. Hunters can be very secretive, jealous, stingy, greedy, and mean. We have a tendency to downgrade other hunters, who don't shoot what we shoot (both size of game, and type of weapon). We tend to disregard how people kill their quarry, even when it is legal. This strife creates even more independence, and creates further independence, and the brotherhood vanishes further.
5. This is bowsite. The argument that this is not crossbowsite is valid, even though I find most of the arguments against them to be juvenile at best. I believe the underlying reason for the hate, is sort of greed-based. I'll refer you to number 4. Hunters can be greedy. I'll admit, my feelings will be hurt, if because of the crossbow's effectiveness, we become a one buck state, but that is derived from what could be perceived as greed.
5. Is the mismanagement of our deer herd. I don't know all the reasons why numbers are up or down depending on where you hunt, but I'd be pissed off if I hunted up on our 80, in Sawyer county. How different is it here, versus there? I haven't hunted there in 11 years. It is night and day different, and it wasn't always bad?
I have a lot of time to think. Of course this is my bias reasoning for the lack of recruitment. I'd blame the rotten cellphone (I'm typing from) for most of it. That said, add in these other factors, and we will be hard pressed (in the future, and perhaps our lifetimes) to keep numbers at an adequate level to keep sustainability. My proudest moment, and the most praise I ever received, was when I was 12 or 13, and I shot a fork horn buck. 40 years later, it's simply not the same world. Knowing how long the human animal has been around, we have really changed, but we sure have that instinctual ability to show off our canines.
Scoped and cocked crossbows are here to stay and there is nothing wrong in using them for hunting. There is a distinction between bow and arrow hunting, and scoped and cocked crossbow hunting. One weapon is for bow and arrow hunting, the other is not. One results in a harder earned trophy, the other less so.
With the inclusion of the scoped and cocked crossbow during general archery seasons, I am in support of allowing air guns too, any gun for that matter. We have lost the hard fought for bow and arrow season forever, may as well be all inclusive.
It is time for all the closet scoped and cocked crossbow users and enablers to go public, many of you are right here on this forum. Leave the bow and arrow hunting culture to the select few of us who choose to limit ourselves and hunt the harder way. We will of course unite together to support hunting in general..... but, you are not us. We are bow and arrow hunters!
Pete Pac's #1 reason says it all right there . Being against the crossbows in the general bow season isn't being greedy it's doing what your #1. Unity will not come when more and varied seasons are continuing to be implemented,period.
Its a bow site for those who want to discuss bows and hunting etc.No problem there at all just common sense. I don't use crossbows and have no interest in them whatsoever hence I don't go on crossbow sites.
Opposing crossbows isn't hate nor greed.Have nothing against the crossbow itself if used in the in muzzleloader or gun season or urban herd reduction hunts.
As far as numbers go, I will kind of use round numbers give or take. In early 70's there was 500,000 gun license's sold, 110,000 bow licenses sold. Today I think the gun sales was 575,000 or so bow/crossbow 350,000. Where is the decline?Hunting will be with us when we are all worm food.
Why was the archery season established for?The season length was established do to a low impact hence thats why gun seasons are a shorter season or have been for a long time. I know none of my opinions will change the cause and effect situations we're in, just expressing my view on this side of the fence. Don't hate anyone for their views, might strongly disagree but thats not hating.
The Crossbow has been around a long time. The crossbow just hasn't developed the way the stick and string has. If they did I think we would approach this conversation differently. I do not support a crossbow regulation that allows it to be used during the general archery season. The crossbow, while been in use for a long time, is not a primitive weapon the way the laws were intended. I believe the crossbow users are exploiting a loop hole in the regs to their advantage. I believe someone who is 60 or older or who has a disability should be able to use their crossbow during general archery. Those who don't qualify for either, should not. Just my opinion.
What I really mean is hunter recruitment would be proportionally the same by percentage against the population as it rises and falls. Hunter recruitment across the nation is at a decline. I get where you are coming from Tweed. The rise of bow hunting is real for us. The stats in MN show it but is it sustainable? I would think that a lot (can't qualify it) get into it and fizzle out due to frustration over not getting the instant gratification that comes with Facebook and Instagram. I'm also a fly fisherman and I have seen more bodies on the North Shore than ever and its uplifiting and sad in the same breath. I have witnessed a lot of folks get mad, frustrated and don't treat the ecosystem the way they should. Trash and littering, etc. I digress...….I am with all of you.
From my understanding of social science, I see no sustainable path forward for hunting and trapping. Hopefully our efforts can continue to slow the trending. Historically that has been an achievable goal, but getting more and more difficult. Hard to believe there are hunters among our ranks who vote against us by supporting the liberal socialists. Really they are the enemy of hunting, not the weapon.
I'm 68 and have been at this game since the mid 1960's. I've pretty much witnessed the sport from it's original primitive roots to the high tech world of today. And I ain't gonna lie...I'm not a fan of where we're now at.
But it is what it is, and my say doesn't mean $#!+...that's ok too. However, what I truly miss , even during the transition from sticks to compounds, is the camaraderie of yesteryear (which isn't that long ago). The archery clubs, shoots, leagues, the old rendezvous feel of the WBH "Necedah shoot", and the fall gatherings of like minded hunting friends.
My circle consisted of about 20 guys...friends throughout the year via our common passion of archery and, especially, bowhunting. A phone call to help on a night tracking job, and we dropped ANYTHING to help...hell, we lived for it and revelled in our friends success!
For the most part, those times are history...dead. Archery itself was FUN. The shoots were FUN. Camping and late night bs/beer drinking sessions at Necedah were FUN. The fall hunt was a bonus, and following that came the indoor season...which, again, was FUN.
I think that's perhaps the greatest casualty of the crossbow......
I wasn’t far behind you Rallison. Started bow hunting deer in 1971 and killed a spike that fall. Was taking small game with a bow before that.
I agree with what you said. Today it’s all me and mine. To hell with the other guy.
In high school on Friday it was a race to get home and meet up with the guys and head north to Adams Friendship. Fish fry at skyline and then to the cabin my friends dad owned and was very kool letting us guys stay there. He and a few of his friends were there also. It was a great time.
Tons of paper company land to hunt right around the cabin and a local farmer would let us hunt his large farm each fall which we could walk to.
We would all sit there and sharpen our Bear Razor Heads with our tool of choice and laugh our tails off all night. Way to amped up to sleep.
We killed a bunch of deer. Size wasn’t important and inches never played into it and we had a ball.
Ditto. Modern times. The "feel" is different gone for good I guess. I feel for the young hunters with all the tech and gadgets. They are missing out on the hunting part of hunting.
I wont be embracing any of it..... As stated above, technology isnt the savior but the demise of the sport. If all the tech in the sport is fine with you, you never had a passion for bowhunting in the first place. All about greed, like everything else....
The xgun killed archery season period. It is not an archery season anymore, just another gun season. Sorry, I will not unite or be Ok with what was done. It was a sad thing to see and killed a great sport. I will bowhunt and be an archer to the end during the what was archery season, but it is not the same anymore.
Agree with most post, the x-gun is like the China virus to bowhunting, it is here and will stay but have to adjust to it. It does need to be put into the muzzle season or restricted to private land unless one has a legit disability.
An friend sent me a recent picture of a 10 yr old killing a buck with a X-gun, what is the kid learning and the future ramification to bow hunting, she will probably never be out with a bow and that is your future, happy for the smile but sad what for the end results. Just glad that I am at the age of where I am at, have very few seasons left and don't care anymore because it is useless to fight the masses. Enjoy your hunt.
Agree with a lot of this. I never ever bought into any of the “we need the xbow to help with Hunter recruitment “ or the “be happy and hunt with whatever you want “ line.. in that case let’s just open gun season in Sept and be done with it... I’m sick and tired of personality knowing people taking deer at 50+ yards with their Ravins in a non firearms season ( and doing so easily... these are chip shots from a rest with a rangefinder)...A good buddy of mine just told me the 140’s buck he took last year was a 65 yard shot... no lie
I'm a Gen3 > Gen4 convert. I haven't 'left' the Bowsite, I just don't visit it as much as I used to. When I made the switch I did frequent the Crossbow sites/forums more regularly for the 'techy' stuff, but I don't visit those sites anymore. When I do visit the Bowsite, I tend to read/post on the WI forum, instead of the Big Game one. There may be less visitors to Bowsite because of other outlets, e.g., Facebook groups. I work in IT and had pretty much avoided FB, until this year, primarily for the Ice Castle Owners Group and to stay in touch with friends and family due to COVID-19.
Everyone, especially for those of you that are still in a 'tissy' about crossbows taking over the hunting world, you should watch the special they have on PBS, 'Us vs Them: Hacking your Mind', about people's auto-pilot biases, and not just about political views, but everything. I'm not going to get into details about it, you have to watch it yourself, but when I watched, I immediately thought of the Bowsite and the negative crossbow talk that still exists - Us (bow hunters) vs Them (x-bow hunters).
1975 5 of us were at the Ojibwa range warming up for an important tournament . A guy drives up in a station wagon & starts handing out these ugly white bows with wheels & cables everywhere He wanted us to try them out .
After 10 minutes we gave the bows & arrows back . We told him that they were too heavy, clunky & waay too noisy.
"Notice how few post, likely they are crossbow hunters and enablers even though they hang out here. Lots of fake bow and arrow hunters."
Has the Bowsite banned crossbow hunters? Sure, I don't post, "check out my shiny new crossbow - give me some love", but I will partake in hunting discussions.
The war over Compound bows over the next 2 years was terrible . Friendships ended , Clubs broke up , fights in Bars . Its was 5 times worse than the Crossbow fights every were . Gen - 4 is another step . I Don't like it but we do need to stick together .
I have nothing against crossguns, they are just another weapon. They should never be allowed in archery seasons anywhere save for the truly disabled. They are a gun, held to your shoulder with the trigger mounted on the weapon, like any gun. Crossgunner's are not bowhunters whether it be legal to use one or not. It's really as simple as that. Crossguns should be allowed in rifle and muzzleloader seasons and that's it. Truth is what all hunters should unite under, and that is the truth. If we're going to allow crossguns in archery seasons well then let's not only allow air guns but shotguns too. The three are all guns and none of the shooters legal or not are bowhunters.
Trickle and Retro have it right. You run into a young hunter in the woods and it looks, regardless of weapon, like they are dressed for a clandestine mission far behind enemy lines with enough survival gear, mapping equipment, communication devices and layering to last a week even though they are 1/4 mile from a highway. They watch to much hunting TV which is all bogus to begin with .
Milwroad - is that a bad thing? Maybe some of those hunters don't have someone in their life to mentor them. I know someone who used to do meth in his younger years and now has a family. He took up hunting without a Father, Uncle or brother, who was into hunting. When I first hunted, I had the Rambo style survival knife, and obviously after a year or two I changed my knife of choice, even though I probably could've gutted a deer with it.
At least between trad gear and compounds, they were both bows that you had to draw, aim, and release. You had to practice to be proficient with them to take a deer without spooking them all while drawing, aiming and releasing. This is not the same, we are talking a gun compared to a bow. To me, they belong in the gun departments. You don't even sight them in the same. An xgun they use a bench, like what? A Gun!!!
Let's think things through a minute here. Hunting is a means of managing a species, pure and simple. Weapons and seasons are based on managing the humans pursuing them. I'll make an assumption here, back in the 60's-70's the majority of people gun hunted, and when bow seasons were formed, the majority of people who took up bow hunting, were also gun hunters, including my Father and myself. Back when those bow hunting seasons were formed, bows were rather limited and so were deer populations overall.
Your traditional bow hunters were up in arms and I remember many a debate here in the late 90s amongst the 'trad' (Leatherwall) and 'wheel' (Bowsite) guys as the advancements of compound bows was increasing exponentially. The popularity of the compound bow hunters/shooters vastly grew to out number the 'trad' guys here.
There's an assumption that increased technology will lead to an over harvest of game, thus reducing the herd. What I've noticed is overall hunter numbers are declining, even the gun hunters. Many of the crossbow hunters were bow hunters at one point or would go back to bow if they had to. What it comes down to is enjoying hunting deer, regardless of weapon, and there's many gun hunters who don't even hunt with a crossbow because the gun hunt is more of social get together, then the act of hunting.
If there's no significant declines in deer herd, then who cares if a weapon is easier to sight in and shoot than another, or the range is extended? I've hunted many a stand with a rifle and could only see/shoot 40-50 yards. Also, many hunters are more selective then they've been, so they're not out shooting everything that comes within range either. My God, in WI we get multiple free doe tags now; if the deer herd was in decline they could reduce those, which BTW, tend to be in or near the more populated counties/regions anyways.
People who call them a 'crossgun', whoopie-doo, they just think they'll ruffle the feathers of a crossbow hunter. I'm not going to say or try to argue my weapon of choice has the same limitations of yours, it doesn't, mine's a much more consistent/efficient weapon in comparison. Gone are the days of shooting in the yard, making sure everything is just right, and wonder why the occasional straggler went where it did, even though everything felt right; or, having to shoot with thick clothes and gloves, just to make sure everything is still 'on'. Where is the rules does it say you have to spend 'x' amount of time practicing before and during the season, just to go hunting? I want to hunt deer, not shoot at targets.
Deer laws now are about shooting deer - period. They could allow muzzle loaders in the archery season for all I care, I don't think more hunters will be out there, because the ones that like hunting are already out there, choosing to shoot or not shoot any given deer. If it's the buck numbers people are concerned about, I support a one buck per year law - you want to shoot a buck in September instead of November, go right ahead. You want to shoot a doe or two and hold onto the buck tag for the gun hunt, great. If someone wants to bow hunt with a long bow or recurve, that's great too. Just don't think you're going to make me feel bad because I'm not in some 'zen' state of mind when shooting a deer with a crossbow.
Think for a minute about your view of crossbow hunters, is it about the deer population, or more about you?
I've said on threads here many times if we gotta live with crossbows then they need a separate season. Still for the Oct. 1- 31. We already have a separate season for gun, muzzleloader, youth, antlerless, and archery. How did crossbow just come in and get all the season to themselves? Like always follow the $. DNR. (do not resist)
I’ve said this a hundred times, the trad bow drawn and released with fingers and the modern compound drawn and released with a mechanical release are much closer relatives than the crossbow which is shoulder mounted, has optics, and is fired from a trigger that is integral to the weapon. How people cannot see this is beyond my comprehension. The modern crossbow is so accurate when the range is known and it’s shot off a rest it’s ridiculous and they have zero place in a season where the mechanism to put energy into the weapon system to fire the weapon has to be actuated in real time by user of said weapon ( ie the person has to physically draw the damn bow at the time they want to shoot it...). I’ve owned And sold two crossbows, shot many different models, have extended family members that use them, and still hate them for use in any archery season. I will never change my mind or “unite” with someone that thinks they belong in the same season structure as our archery season.
Lol ill be out with a bow! But I didnt shoot the horse. The horse I heard that was killed was a skittish horse. A horse that kept a 100 yard distance from anyone. Wonder what kind of hunter would shoot a horse?
My archery shop still sells a lot of bows. Especially those designed for youth sizes. He said, crossbow sales are strong, but 90 percent are for older hunters, and the other 10 percent, are for busy hunters who want to get out for a few days, busy lives, not a lot of time to hunt.....
Matthew, Hoyt and Elite are his compounds, but surprisingly he sells quite a few Gearhead bows, which I never saw the attraction for,,,,,,,,,
As for the UNITE, well try to sell that to the WBH,,,,,, good luck................ Wisconsin had it right, when it had its lesser weapon rule, but that can has been emptied..........
I still say the average deer is probably shot inside of 30 yards, but that is my guess. I say that from xbow users I talk too. Most do not have the interest or skill level in the woods, to make a longer shot,,,,, some sure, but not most..........
Use what you want, but unless disabled or over 65, they should not be in the general archery season, in my opinion. After my heart surgery, my daughter bought me a Parker Thunderhawk, and the case and crank. Light small xbow, its like a wolf, its a killing machine. I spent a lot of trigger time, behind a rifle, like many here, but I shot a doe in a bean field, at 56 yards, from a rest, without any issues, my first winter with it. On turkeys I think its a lot of fun, but not much a challenge for what I consider archery.
I am a lucky guy, going on 71, still healthy to shoot a long bow or compound. But I work out, so I can.
MI does not allow it, for the late season. I would think they would for the elderly, but they don't.
Knife2Ssharp also makes a good argument. In reality I do not think most care, they use what they do, what they enjoy and go hunt..............................
Crossbows have been legal and well accepted by the public for use by elderly and handicapped hunters. I'm guessing some of the older members on this forum harbor some shame for making the transition from a vertical bow to a crossbow when they should not.
I will say this - where I do my primary hunting now in Western WI, which is part of the central farmland zone, near a relatively populated town, on mixed private and public land, within 45 mins of the Twin Cities, I don't see any more hunters, let alone crossbow hunters then in the past. I've been hunting there for about 20 years now, and if anything, there's been a lot less gun hunters. The people hunting during the archery season are about the same amount and likely a bit less too. It's not like there's some crazy increase, or even guys from MN coming out just because crossbows allowed. Now, maybe there was that first year crossbows were allowed, if there was, I didn't notice it.
We run trail cams all year in various areas and the numbers/quality aren't that much different either. The only time I saw a drastic increase, was the last year they implemented the earn-a-buck, people were trying to get their does before heading up to their property up North. I recall walking down the road to my truck, just after the first morning hunt, and a guy pulled up and said, "didn't you see that doe that just crossed the road behind you?" I hadn't, but was like so what. Luckily, I had gotten a doe during that 4 day doe hunt they had that year. But he made it sound like I was passing up gold.
Now, maybe up North somewhere, or over in Eastern WI, it's different. I did have a buddy say he saw some hunter several years back, just off the road, walking around a WPA with an arrow nocked on his bow like he was going to happen upon a deer to shoot. Those types of guys don't stay in the sport very long, so I'm not too worried, even if he did end up getting a crossbow. The patience alone, keeps a lot of people from continuing to pursue hunting.
I have seen no crossbow use where I hunt. Might have something to do with me hunting my own land where crossbows are not allowed. However, I have several (as in 4) friends who used to use a vertical bow and now hunt with a crossbow.
My friend offered me to use his wife x-gun until I go into surgery. He also offered me his tower blind to use so I could have a resting shot since I am very shaky right know. I thanked him but politely refused. I am going to try to get out this week for an hour or so, to just sit with a camera. I can't see myself using one just because I am missing one season, maybe if it was perminent, but not just one season. It will make me appreciate next year even more. I go for pre-op on Friday so hopefully surgery soon after that.
Up where I hunt Sawyer County in the Natl. Forest there has been a big influx of people deer hunting. I was up there last year during the first week of Nov and lots of xgun hunters seen getting ready to go into there stands/tripods/bait piles. That's one of the reasons I am doing the last week of October this year. Up there though, the 2nd week of Nov may be better. Put it this way, there were more people seen hunting up there xgunning that first week of Nov. than there was the week of gun season.
Live2Hunt - around here, the first week of November I see very little buck activity, hunting as well on cams. Around the 12-19, is when I start seeing better bucks again, especially during daylight hours.
My son and I hunt with compounds and I still feel that means we're not true bowhunters because I still feel the trad guys are the only real archers. I don't care that I am judged by some for taking the easy way out because I shoot a compound. I hunt for different reasons than others. I love my time in the woods and especially hunting with my son. I do not care what weapon(s) people choose to hunt with as long as they are legal.
It is interesting that antihunters and hunters who vote democrat are voting for and supporting the exact same politicians. Throw them out of your camps.
Well happy, you still have to shoot it like a BOW, not a GUN. So you are still shooting a bow.
Agreed, but a compound is exponentially easier than trad gear and they are loaded with all kinds of tech gear. Other than having to pull it without being busted (not very difficult to do), it is taking the easy way out just like those who jumped from a compound to an xbow. I really don't care that the trad guys tend to look down on the wheelies. It is actually fun to read about it on the Leatherwall board.
Lots of good points & counter points . I just had a dream that if Gen 1,2,3, & 4's could unite under 1 group in the same named season & the WBH or another Org could build a powerful force to protect us when we need it .
With hunter # dropping yearly in this country it sounded like a good idea to me.
When I have my compound and recurve in the truck I tend to choose my compound . Especially when I’m limited on time. It doubles my distance from 15 to 30 yds. I am more accurate with my compound too. I like them both just wish I had more time in the woods
Mnhunter1980, that is funny. I talked to a physical fit gent that nearly said the something but he has a compound and a x-bow but will use the x-bow that is more accurate out to 100 yrds and does not have the time to practice with the compound and he has a 250 acre uncle's farm next to Buffalo Co., rational is hard to argue.
I’m taking a friend of mine hunting , it will be his first time ever hunting anything. He bought a used crossbow cheap and wants to hunt deer with it. His goal is purely meat for his family and to share a camp fire with friends. He has zero idea that there are people against crossbows! I figure it’s not my job to crash his parade but to invite him with to hunt. He has 3 boys and his oldest really wants to hunt. It was not my intention but if he enjoys himself this year with a crossbow it may lead to his kids hunting . Pretty cool when I think of the whole picture. Ruger I love the picture of the boy!!
Very kind of you Joe! You're one of the good ones, and I knew that right quick. Spread that love, because you will be remembered for being a kind man, and those others? Well, simply forgotten. That is the solemn truth! Good luck to your friend.
Thank Joe , Conner is 12 now & a crackshot with almost any weapon . Put a Hockey stick in his hands & he is deadly. Several Mnn schools are watching him .
That’s awesome ruger! There aren’t a whole lot of things MN has going for it but hockey is one of them.
I grew up playing hockey from the time I could walk through high school. I was always very average so I never gave it a second thought after high school. Hockey is year round sport now and very time consuming! I played baseball until I really got the fishing bug at about 10 yrs old , then I chose fishing over baseball. I went through gun safety at 12 and after middle school I realized I could duck hunt way more if I didn’t play football. Best of luck to you and Conner! I think hockey is a great sport and if it will take him places, even better! Hopefully he finds the time to Enjoy hunting in life’s busy schedule.
Mnhunter, I made the switch back to a recurve 5 years ago. I had both the compound and recurve in the truck the first year. The night a buck comes to 10 yards I had the compound. I didn't realize it till after I shot it, but I had the bow canted and did not use my sites at all, LOL. From that point on I hung the compound up and only hunt with the recurve now. The first year I went only recurve I shot a doe and a nice 8 point the same morning. Not going back now. Sure not going to a gun during what was the archery season.
Mnhunter, that is very kind of you. I don't judge my friends and family via their weapons of choice or their political views for that matter. I once had my disabled friend and his 10 yr old son on my land and the disabled friend had his 10 yr old son use his xbow. I was called an enabler many times by our famous "scoped crossbow" trad shooting expert. I could care less because I value my friendships more than any hobby I do. We shared time in the woods and it helped his son learn to like hunting even though he did not fire a bolt. We shared beverages and meals like friends and family do or at least used to do via hunting traditions. Like I said, I don't give a rat's ass of other's opinions about me as a compound shooter or the fact I let a kid with an xbow hunt on my land.
to all you elitist narcissistic holier than thow posters, I picked up my first bow a fiberglass long bow in 1966--had hard time hitting a bale of hay at 20 yards, 1968, built my own wood long bow, still had hard time hitting anything, purchased a recurve, OOO NOW MODERN ! better but not perfect, did take a button buck, Added a white headed pin under black tape on riser,first sight OOOO MODERN ! much better , next purchased a real sight, OOO MODERN ! better more accurate, next a peep sight ! OOOO MODERN , Now were getting somewhere, quite accurate ! Next went to a compound bow , with sight and peep sight, OOO MODERN ! same accuracy but can hold back longer--more accurate--after 2 shoulder and 2 back surgeries I now have to use a crossbow, OOO MODERN ! As you see I progressed from 1966 to today, Not for ease but for more accuracy, I hate wounding any living creature, I have in the past and just hated it, made me sick, So all you narcissistic, eletist holier than thow outdoors people make me sick, go dry up, walk in my shoes, Those of you using hand made wooden long bows with cedar arrows, that can successfully take animals without a lot of wounding, you may discuss my xbow with me ! You others using anything more modern please keep your thoughts to yourself, I am tired of you making me feel inferior to you ! 53 years of deer hunting with a bow at least 50 deer killed, a caribou and bear, Turkey also, My camp in west central wi is open to hunters of all ages, skin color and sex, Many children have walked through my door, But please , You narcissists, please stay away,
Ahh, Grouch? no one on this site or anyone I know of have no issues with people using them the way the law was, age or disability. For anyone else, it is simply a way to use gun to easily kill an animal during what was set up for a vertical bow and arrow drawn and held by your muscles.
Well said Live2Hunt, sometimes you can't fix stupid and that dolt is living proof. I've killed lots of game, deer and elk, with my Damon Howatt recurve so I guess I can discuss this!
The topic at hand has nothing to do with elitism or anything related. It has to do with reality and facts. A compound bow is still a bow. A crossgun is a gun. The difference maker has only to do with facts, the facts being a crossgun has the trigger mounted on the weapon itself and is held to the shoulder like any other gun. Being it is a gun, it should not be allowed in any archery season except for the truly disabled. It's just as simple as that. It's legal to use that gun so go ahead and do so if you want, just don't call it bowhunting or call yourself a bowhunter.
Crossbows are not allowed in the archery season. They are only allowed in the crossbow season that runs concurrent with the archery season as well as waterfowl and small game seasons.
I'm absolutely certain that if we have just one more conversation about crossbows, we will come to an agreement. When will we all learn that this topic is never going to change minds? Yet here we are, beating a dead horse who's been pummeled like a pinata. I'm not sure who makes me laugh the most? The people who interject the word gun in the name crossbow, or the one's who try and argue in their favor on a site with such bias? Could this not be the last time it needs to be brought up? It's NEVER EVER gone anywhere, and it is going nowhere.
….AND THE MOON IS JUST THE SUN AT NIGHT. Crossguns are allowed in archery season in Wisconsin. Presently, shotguns are not allowed in archery season. They should be if you're going to allow the crossgun.
Either you're over your head or just choosing to be. None of what you list make a bow a gun. Having the trigger MOUNTED on the weapon and holding it to your shoulder like any other gun is what makes a crossgun a gun. Can you hold a compound bow to your shoulder like a gun and fire it? Does the compound bow have the trigger mounted on the weapon like the crossgun or any other gun?
Laugh yourself to sleep DT, just try not to wet the bed next time.
The only reason they chose to separate the bow and crossbow tags, is to track the sales of each. Plus, they've always offered the either/or tag, for an additional fee of course. I guess it comes in handy if the crossbow gets out of commission and you need to use your old bow as a backup.
Shotguns are presently NOT allowed during the archery season. Crossguns are.
When I shoot my recurve my fingers touch the string when I'm ready to pull it. With a compound the trigger is not mounted on the weapon, just like with a longbow or recurve. When it's time to pull the string the release touches the string instead of the fingers. That release usually strapped to your wrist or in your pocket. Not mounted. One also doesn't hold a bow to their shoulder in order to shoot it. Unlike a shotgun, rifle, or crossgun.
Most on this forum hunt with or enable other healthy family members to use the scoped and cocked crossbows during the general archery season. That is why there is so much support here for the scoped and cocked crossbow. Lots of fake bow and arrow hunters these days, and increasing each year. Have I ever mentioned this before?
lol @ the made up word "crossgun", here I thought all the crossbow haters were taught long ago that no one really pays any attention to their sniveling and bitching when the words they use (and apparently base their arguments on) are not even real words!
So crossbow haters, please make up some more words as it's super funny and while you're at it go ahead and tell us how all your friends (invisible and made-up) feel about it too. This place cracks me up!
If we are keeping it factual, xbows are not allowed in the archery season. They are only allowed in the xbow season which is a completely separate season. The 2 seasons just happen to run concurrently. If the xbow season were to be changed, this truth would be more apparent.
Imagine living your life where you are willing to throw away life long friendships or not associate with family members simply because they participate in a hobby in a manner than differs from you. That same person on this board has often discriminated against disabled people too. it is crazy that a scoped cocked device can lead someone to be so miserable in life.
I've read for along time, haven't posted in a while, but I've realized why the sport is dying, it's people like Missouri breaks, who try to divide those who are normally friends or at least share common interests. Weapons are inmatterially to the fact we share a desire to hunt and ethically harvest our quarry. I came / come here to learn and share knowledge you sir obviously do not.
Hopefully we will get an air gun season at the same time as the scoped and cocked crossbow season, and the real bow season. Nobody will complain because they are separate seasons, just sharing the same dates. Why not include guns too as a separate season, but the sharing exact same dates as the other three? Then, we could have four distinct seasons, sharing the same dates, and everybody will be happy because the seasons are separate. I am game!!!
The argument nor the players have changed. But, based on the arguments made from the crossbow proponents here, MO makes the most valid point of all. In an effort to kill the deer with maximum efficiency, rifles should be allowed during the archery season.
And... Since a different tag would be required for guns it would be a different season, but just happen to run on the same dates with the general archery season, scoped and cocked crossbow season, squirrel season, maybe air gun season, etc.
There are some real beauties on the Wisconsin forum, education was not their forte.
Everyone knows how those things work, crossgunner's try so desperately to ignore those facts. Those facts can't be disputed, but gun proponents during archery season try to sell their tainted ideals the same way liberal politicians sell theirs.
" The 2 seasons just happen to run concurrently. If the xbow season were to be changed, this truth would be more apparent. "
This is perhaps the dumbest statement of all. "They are not the same, but they are the same" You can legally use a crossgun during the bow season. Period. You can NOT use a shotgun, but you CAN use a crossgun. It would be all right to allow shotguns and rifles during the archery season if we just named it their own season, right? More proof you sometimes can't fix stupid.
" That same person on this board has often discriminated against disabled people too"
Now Gloria please enlighten us, give us those examples. This should be good.
If shooting a recurve with fingers is traditional archery then that is me, and it doesn't matter in the least in terms of the "argument". The only thing that matters are facts.
A compound bow is indeed a bow, as much so as a stick bow or recurve. You can not fire a compound bow by holding it to your shoulder like you would a gun, just like with a stick bow or recurve. A crossgun has its trigger mounted on the weapon itself, like a rifle or shotgun. A compound bow does not, just like with a stick bow or recurve.
Those are simple facts, not opinion. Now what is opinion is it is my opinion that guns like rifles and crossguns and shotguns should never be allowed in an archery season. If so, allow all guns to be used.
"When you snap that release with a trigger onto the string or D loop it is now “mounted or part of the bow. "
No, it isn't. No more than when you snap those fingers onto the string they are not part of the bow. Both the fingers and the release are removed. A trigger on a gun is not removed. On top of that, compounds can be shot with fingers and still are. Not that it matters.
You’re trying way to hard to split hairs. Also there is no way with today’s short axle to axle bows that you can comfortably finger shoot them more than a few shots.
Again what stick bow do you shoot? Or are you blowing smoke and can’t admit you shoot a mechanical device? I’ll check back later as I’m in the stand now.
People can shoot what they want. The great news is there will still be deer left at the end of the season. The guy or gal still has to learn how to hunt. I have confidence in the survival of deer in general. Which reminds me on how It feels so good to worry about myself and how I am hunting.
Noc, well said, I thought we could all come together as outdoorsman / women but maybe that's for a different generation. Some of us have our ways and can't accept others or any change. I understand the purpose of this site (being bowhunting specific) but I don't understand the lack of outdoorsmanship. Old timers taught me everything I know, regardless of how I ended up hunting but this here is not what real old timers would do... There's a lot of things I could and should say but I will just say thanks and goodbye... And yea the good lord already split me there so save the comments
That was the idea, Chief, when organizations like SCI fully supported crossbows for everyone in Wisconsin. It seems like now the people that support SCI and other organizations have changed their minds, or aren’t telling the truth...
“You’re trying way to hard to split hairs. Also there is no way with today’s short axle to axle bows that you can comfortably finger shoot them more than a few shots. Again what stick bow do you shoot?”
I’m splitting no hairs, I am stating facts. Also, there is every way to shoot fingers with a number of today’s bows. You don’t have to shoot a short axle bow. You apparently have the attention span of a booger, I have already stated what I shoot. Including the make.
Chief, it is a Bowhunters site, not an old timers site. Reggie, people who attempt to speak about things they no nothing about usually end up sounding ignorant.
The original posters analogy of Gen 1, Gen 2, etc... has no truth to it. Weapon choice is about attitude, not birth dates. There are lots of old people shooting compounds, and there are lots of young people who got bored with all the technology and have made the transition back to traditional archery. And there are plenty of old and young people alike who have left bowhunting altogether and are now hunting with crossbows. Attitude....
" The 2 seasons just happen to run concurrently. If the xbow season were to be changed, this truth would be more apparent. "
This is perhaps the dumbest statement of all. "They are not the same, but they are the same" You can legally use a crossgun during the bow season. Period. You can NOT use a shotgun, but you CAN use a crossgun. It would be all right to allow shotguns and rifles during the archery season if we just named it their own season, right? More proof you sometimes can't fix stupid.
Yes Trax, you can't fix stupid but I am trying and you are still not catching on.
Fact, there is a separate archery season and xbow season. If you Google crossbow season wisconsin, you will see a popup that states The crossbow season currently runs from mid-September to early January, in concurrence with the archery season. You see, those are two separate seasons that run concurrently. BTW, you have to have a crossbow license to hunt with a crossbow. Here is another Google tidbit The crossbow license authorizes hunting with a crossbow only. So you see, you have to have a crossbow license and use it during the crossbow season. You can use a crossbow or bow during the gun season but you have to have a gun license.
There was an attempt this year to change the xbow season so that it was shortened and did not run concurrently with the archery season. That was not approved.
Now please don't let these facts confuse you. But, don't blame me for the current seasons. Blame those who voted for it to be like it is. I don't think many on this board would have voted for the season structures.
Reggie, you are not ignorant. I went to your link and it sure seems that SCI completely backed xbows for all. Let me copy in the article you linked in.
SCI Wisconsin Members – Please support Assembly Bill 194. This legislation would create a hunting season that allows the use of crossbows for all hunters. There are strong sentiments on the use of crossbows for hunting, however SCI encourages you to look at the long-term gains of more sportsmen and women participating in hunting.
All sportsmen and women should encourage more hunters to participate in the sport rather than dissuading them from the outdoors.
WI Assembly Bill 194 will be heard in the Assembly Natural Resource Committee on May 22nd. Please consider sending a letter of support for Assembly Bill 194 to your elected officials in the Wisconsin legislature. In particular please consider sending a letter of support to following:
Safari Club International has generated the attached statement in support of crossbow hunting and the benefits it can contribute to bringing more outdoor opportunities to more sportsmen and women. Please stand united in taking down unnecessary barriers for all to enjoy hunting!
I believe politics and money played a huge role in SCI's take on this. I personally thought the rules were fine as they were. I could even buy into the age being dropped to 55. Opening up xbows for all has caused a lot of division across WI hunters. But, since the law passed and the xbow season started, I wish everyone well regardless of their weapon(s) of choice. I'll continue to shoot my compound until my shoulder does not allow it.
Everyone knows what the regs say. Yes, you can use a crossgun during the bow season. It doesn’t matter how you split it, it doesn’t matter how much you whine about there being “separate” seasons. That’s just verbiage for the sheep. Presently you can not use a rifle during the archery season, but you CAN use a crossgun during the archery season. Pin a medal on your azz that says their are two seasons or have your boyfriend do it but it doesn’t change anything. Crossguns are still allowed during the archery season while shotguns and rifles are not. Having a “special” season changes nothing.
As much as i agree with you Trax and I am sure you win the majority, but the season is what it is. Resorting to what you have made it will never win an argument. Let's just be gentlemen here. Everyone has their minds made up. Personally I found the crossbow perfect the way it was before the new implementation. The way the world has been in 2020. We should unite as hunters and maybe appreciate the men and woman who choose to shoot real archery equipment even more but be kind to your fellow hunter. I know many that switched to crossbows and actually lost interest. There is no skill set with a crossbow but its here to stay. They still have to learn to hunt and still have to get on in range and not everyone has the luxury to hunt field edges, so 100 yard shots are mostly out of the question. Alot here need to focus on themselves and their hunting. Not this politically settled argument.
Exactly the point Nocturnal. I'm not a fan of the weapon myself, but they are here, and they are legal. I learned a while back, that you never know the back story when we make judgement. Whatever the reason people choose the crossbow over the bow, can be a multitude of reasons. Time to hunt, current skillset with the bow, injuries, age, desire to kill (stage of the hunter), the desire take a trophy . The list is long. I simply cannot fathom how long people are going to cry over spilled milk? The argument seems to take different paths, depending on perspective, and today, bias gets in the way of rational thinking. I see both sides, and today, that's an unusual trait. We feel like our team is right, and theirs is wrong. Our political leaders no different. Sadly we've reached the age where we cannot disagree about a particular topic, and move on. No one listens any longer. We resort to name calling. Don't get me wrong. There's plenty of dipshits in this world I'll not speak to again, because their capacity to communicate rationally is long forgotten, but if you're an individual who knows how to have discussions, instead of knowing how to plug those ears and fight, I can deal with you. We were never meant to be exactly the same as other people. We don't feel the same, think the same, or communicate the same, but we should be able to let stuff go. I'm now 53. My tolerance for people who lack the capacity to discuss things, is gone. Dead to me! Now I take this topic, and it profoundly (in my bias opinion) always makes certain people look like fools, even when I agree with their premise. My only suggestion for those people who cannot let it go, is to either join ranks, and buy the crossbow, or don't. Pretty damn simple! Ridiculing people because they're not like you, is why I say the argument against the crossbow is rather juvenile. I just wish people could agree that they are more accurate. They are legal. They are going nowhere. They are not a gun. They are not a vertical bow (neither traditional or compound). Mostly I wish people would quit fighting with their fellow comrades. In the end, you'll wish you were more united. I wish people would worry less about others, and more about themselves. I wish people brought substance to this forum instead of rhetoric. I wish I could unfollow certain members who cannot play with others. I wish I was moderator so I could clean this place up, and make it more inviting for those members who refuse to partake for fear of retribution. I wish their were standards and rules. One of which, would be leaving the topic at least in Wisconsin since it is absolutely legal, off limits. It has divided family, friends, strangers, and members here. Again, the rationale behind it, is almost ludicrous, for or against. The argument is a moot point at this juncture. Could we not act like men and move on? I already know that answer, but I wish.
Scoped and cocked crossbows are not yet legal everywhere and only a loser would give up the fight. Yes, hunters fell in love with crossbows and liberals in Wisconsin, but the battle is far from over in some other states. Why quit the battle before the war is lost, only losers do that? I am sure scoped and cocked crossbows are coming to the hold out states, but time gained has it's merits. Do not be a simple minded quitter.
Yes, you can use a crossgun during the bow season. Crossguns are still allowed during the archery season while shotguns and rifles are not.
Wrong again. You can only use an xbow during the xbow season and with an xbow license. You can't use a bow during the xbow season either. Please understand the facts and the rules. People worked very hard in WI to have separate seasons.
Pin a medal on your azz that says their are two seasons or have your boyfriend do it but it doesn’t change anything.
Wow Trax, you are very mature and you are really good at having adult conversations. Because you don't want to believe it is not true, does not change the facts. The facts are the facts. There are 2 seasons. Captain Mike played a big role in the creation of the separate xbow season which was done for valid reasons. The opportunity to track xbows and change the xbow season now exists. He'd be able to explain the facts to you as well but I doubt he'd waste his time on your ilk.
I'm sure that pretty much all of the members here wish the rules were left as they were, but that bell has rung. Nothing has divided hunters more than xbows for all. Let's hope that the gun hunters never figure out how to unite or both the archery and xbow seasons could be impacted. Inklings of that started this past summer already.
Yes, hunters fell in love with crossbows and liberals in Wisconsin
Part of that statement is right and part is not. If we wanted to be accurate here, it was Walker (who I voted for 3 times) who signed xbows for all into law. No doubt though that many people fell in love with xbows.
In this case, this was not a matter of left vs right, the blame really falls on the NRA who lined the pockets of the politicians pushing its agenda.
It's still the politicians who legislated it in, and for those who mix left/right political into it, They were majority so called "conservative" party. Thats fact,and as mentioned bill signed by Repub Walker. Get your facts straight before all the politics is mentioned. Happygolucky has said it best.
"In this case, this was not a matter of left vs right, the blame really falls on the NRA who lined the pockets of the politicians pushing its agenda."
I agree, but I would not say pushing, rather shoving it down our throats. Another thing, the xgun tag needs to be associated with the gun tag, not the archery tag. It is a gun, so associate it with the appropriate weapon. It sure as hell is not a bow.
A few random comments on the issue. Yes, we have a separate season for the crossbow and yes, that season runs concurrent to the archery season. Happy summed it up correctly. And yes, we did indeed have this legislation pushed through by a majority of republican legislators. A direct result of NRA money and backing. Pretty much everything about politics revolves around money which makes it very dirty. While we fought against this tooth and nail, in the end we were forced to take what we could get which was the separate season classification. To date it has done no good regards shortening the crossbow season. That door is yet unopened but at least there is a door. Reggie, citing something from the website of one SCI chapter does not fairly represent the entire issue. I could show where another chapter was in direct opposition but it is meaningless. Unless you can cite something from SCI National, it is nothing more than the sentiments of the Chapter you cited.
The thought about associating the crossbow tag to the gun deer tag is interesting... maybe a one buck rule between the two tags... If you get one with the crossbow you can’t shoot a buck with your gun tag
Wisconsin clearly voted the liberals in. I made no reference to Liberals legalizing the scoped and cocked crossbow. Two different Wisconsin events. 100% accurate.
Reggie, again you fall short of the mark. Safari club is an organization for all hunters. That said, there is no reason that they wouldn’t welcome a crossbow manufacturer as a sponsor. However, that is a far cry from and has no correlation to a particular state attempting to put crossbows into their general archery season. You’re trying but you need to give it a little more effort. Man cannot subsist on crumbs alone.
I'm all for that, I grew up hunting in MN where you can only register one buck a year, but could still party hunt. I'd like to see an end to the party hunting as well, especially where there's available doe tags for everyone. I pretty much implement that practice now anyways. Although I'll still go gun hunting, it's with very little gusto and I usually go somewhere outside of my primary hunting area, plus I'm real selective or I'll take a doe, and I don't take any vacation time during the week. I've never registered two bucks a season since I've been hunting in WI, starting in '96.
I could stomach crossbows having a concurrent season with the archery season if that crossbow season was indeed tied to gun. I would even support one “gun” tag that is good for crossbows during the crossbow season, and firearms during the gun season, but it’s a one buck only tag (but if you buy that special crossbow/gun tag you can’t also buy an archery tag). Basically if you choose the “add crossbow” option to the gun tag, you can’t buy an archery tag. Along with that there is an option to buy just a crossbow tag (likely cheaper than the gun crossbow combo), but if you get that you can’t buy a gun tag nor an archery tag.
Reggie, more crumbs but no substance. It is, was and always has been a fact that we agreed to this deal. While we did not like it, we were faced with full inclusion into the archery season or a separate season structure. Getting the crossbow it’s own season was far better than the full inclusion into the archery season that was being pushed. To this point, you have shown nothing that has not been discussed before. I’ve humored you with your “crumbs” so tell us, what is your point?