DeerBuilder.com
Scoring
Kansas
Contributors to this thread:
One Arrow 02-Jan-21
One Arrow 02-Jan-21
One Arrow 02-Jan-21
One Arrow 02-Jan-21
One Arrow 02-Jan-21
One Arrow 02-Jan-21
Thornton 02-Jan-21
Be still 02-Jan-21
One Arrow 03-Jan-21
be still 03-Jan-21
Thornton 03-Jan-21
MDW 03-Jan-21
One Arrow 03-Jan-21
One Arrow 03-Jan-21
MDW 03-Jan-21
be still 03-Jan-21
MDW 03-Jan-21
be still 03-Jan-21
One Arrow 03-Jan-21
MDW 04-Jan-21
JSW 04-Jan-21
One Arrow 05-Jan-21
From: One Arrow
02-Jan-21
Question... this buck has a “double brow”.

When scoring this do you measure both points from the main beam or do you draw an imaginary line off one of the brows to measure the 2nd. If that makes sense.

I’m not a professional, but have scored many deer over the years... I’ve ran into this a couple of times and never really knew the correct way to score this. In looking at B&C scoring rules it seems you would measure the full length of both tines basically ignoring the palmation.

(Edit - I’ve added a couple of pictures of the 2 options I’m thinking of. Red lines being the length measurements) hopefully that helps with what I was trying to ask.

From: One Arrow
02-Jan-21

One Arrow's embedded Photo
One Arrow's embedded Photo
Might help if I add a photo...

From: One Arrow
02-Jan-21
Sorry, it was in the right direction when I uploaded

From: One Arrow
02-Jan-21
Also, looking at the 2 points it seems there is some separation the full length of the double brows. You can see it and feel it... again, if that makes sense.

From: One Arrow
02-Jan-21

One Arrow's embedded Photo
One Arrow's embedded Photo
#1

From: One Arrow
02-Jan-21

One Arrow's embedded Photo
One Arrow's embedded Photo
#2

From: Thornton
02-Jan-21
#2 is the correct way to score it. #1 would be scoring it twice so you're treating the 2nd point as a kicker.

From: Be still
02-Jan-21

Be still's embedded Photo
Be still's embedded Photo
Be still's embedded Photo
Be still's embedded Photo
By the pic I think Thornton would be correct but if it’s not a kicker then maybe they would go further down. I’ve found out lately that I’ve been underscoring a few of mine that is webbed on the beam. I used to go to the top of webbing and down to other side of the top of beam to get that imaginary line. Heard now you’re supposed to draw the line across like the webbing isn’t there.

From: One Arrow
03-Jan-21
That’s the thing, I’m not sure it’s a kicker. There is separation all the way down to the base of the brow.

I watched a couple videos from a B&C scorer and he said it can be interpreted differently by scorers. I always scored them as kickers, but now I’m not sure.

I believe you are correct Be Still... go all the way down to the main beam as if it didn’t grow those points. However, your 4th mass measurement would be after that webbing if my understanding is correct... can’t double dip on inches.

Hopefully there’s an official scorer on here?

From: be still
03-Jan-21
I now realize you can’t hardly see the lines on the tape here... but yes one thing I read said in this case you go back to the 3rd mass measurement and use that one for the 4th measurement. But I watched one video where the scorer went on ahead and used the webbed measurement. So I don’t really know for sure. If you think about it though it don’t seem like you would be double-dipping....if the webbing wasn’t there the tine length would be the same but when you put the webbing back on and not count the mass you’re cheating what the deer grew there.

From: Thornton
03-Jan-21

Thornton's embedded Photo
Thornton's embedded Photo
I scored this 3 point brow tine as 1 long one and 2 kickers

From: MDW
03-Jan-21
Yes, Pic # 2 would be the correct way to measure. As for the next set of pic's, what does the other side look like? If both side are alike, it's measured one way, if only one side looks that way, it's measured another way. (Confusing ain't it?) First off does it a definable hourglass shape at the top of the main beam? If so, the points can be measured down to main beam, like the 2nd pic. If there's not an hourglass pattern, it means that one of the points comes off of the other and would be non-typical. If you would want to meet sometime, I could go over some of these things? P&Y and B&C measurer.

From: One Arrow
03-Jan-21
Jason, so I believe that’s where it can be interpreted by the scorer if they feel those tines protrude from the brow tine or if they protrude from the main beam base with webbing.

On the video he said there can be a lot of disparities between official scorers on the same rack. Which, I’m guessing, is where panel scoring comes in on giants.

It’s hard to see from my photo, but it does seem that the rack in question both brows protrude from the base. I’ve always scored it like a kicker and It doesn’t really matter to me either way, but I want to give the buck credit where it’s due.

From: One Arrow
03-Jan-21
Marvin, where are you located?

From: MDW
03-Jan-21
Fredonia, KS.

From: be still
03-Jan-21
No Marvin the other side wasn’t like that...so how would that work? And could I count the last mass measurement there?

From: MDW
03-Jan-21

MDW's embedded Photo
MDW's embedded Photo
here again, it will all depend on if there is a clear figure eight pattern on top of the main beam. If a figure eight shows, it is two points sharing a common base. If no figure eight shows, one of these has to be non-typical. If it is two points and a circumference measurement should fall between them, measure there. However be ready, there will be a big difference side to side. Maybe the attached picture will help, maybe not?

From: be still
03-Jan-21
Thank you...that helps.

From: One Arrow
03-Jan-21
Wow... just curious, how many classes/hours did you have to take to become certified?

From: MDW
04-Jan-21
After being fairly well versed on measuring most animals, a person has to be invited to an official measuring class. At that time P&Y was doing a couple classes a year, while B&C was doing one class. I was in Denver for 3 1/2 days with P&Y, where we were to measure at least two of every recognized north americian big game animal. About ten years later, I was in Minn. for another 3 1/2 days taking the B&C class with same chores. Every few years I am sent a questionare asking if I want to continue measuring and to keep certified. Occasionally get sent an updated book, or pages if any changes are made to process, so that every measurer has the same information in front of them. Even with all that, we still get different thoughts at times. THAT is the reason for panel scoring. BTW' I have three bowhunters with really good bucks that I'm supposed to get with later this month. If I can remember, I will try to post a picture or two.

From: JSW
04-Jan-21
Marvin is mostly correct. I recall it being 2 1/2 days though.

Anyone who wants to become an official measurer for P&Y first needs to contact the office and fill out an application. Once you do that you will be invited to participate in a clinic. We try to do at least 3 a year and move them around to try to enable more people to drive to the clinic.

IF we have a number of applications from the lower midwest, we try to schedule a clinic in that area. We generally have at least one every year in our office in Chatfield MN. Recently, we try to partner with B&C so we can certify everyone to be B&C and P&Y measurers at the same time.

If you are interested in becoming a measurer, contact the P&Y office. They will tell you what to expect.

From: One Arrow
05-Jan-21
Good to know, thanks! It’s always been an interest of mine... the timing is an issue usually. Farming seems to ruin a lot of my plans.

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