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Interesting read about crossbow use

This morning, I ran across this tweet about crossbow use in the US and found it very interesting.

Please read it with open minds.

Due to the allowance of crossbow usage in many states I predict that, in years to come, vertical bows will be a thing of the past for most "archers". Why? Because crossbows are promoted for young archers, females, handicapped and such...and let's face it...if a youngster starts off with a crossbow few of them will ever start shooting a vertical bow. Don't have to be concerned about poundage. Don't have to be concerned about accuracy...put the scope crosshair on a deer out there at 50 yards or so and he's meat. Easy, no practice etc. Get a rest, sight it in and hunt. Don't even shoot it until next season...it's good to go. The Xbowers out there don't want the challenge of a hunt...they just want to kill a deer, or whatever, and that's it. That's the real difference between a vertical bow hunter and a "Xbower". Meat hunter vs. challenged hunter where a semblance of skill is involved.

What I've advocated is this. First two weeks of deer season...primitive...being recurves and longbows. Starting next two weeks, compound bows. Starting next two weeks, Xbows. Starting next two weeks, firearms. Next two weeks go back to bows, of all types. Now for the caveat. At whatever point you choose to jump in, you have to stick with that weapon for the entire remainder of the seasons. This would separate the wheat from the chaff. My guess is that the vast majority of Xbowers would wait for gun season...the majority of them are gun hunters anyhow just looking for a "jump" on gun season. Are there former "true bowhunters" out there with physical problems...yes. But not as many as they want you to think.

Now...would any state support such. Of course not...it would lose them license sales. All about money.

Personally, if and when it gets to the point that I can't draw my bow I'll start shooting a Xbow. But...I won't look for any kind of dispensation. Leave it like it is...Xbow starting later. Just the way I feel.

With New York's drop off in hunting numbers, I feel we have to do whatever we can do to introduce and bring in more hunters or we will lose the sport of hunting altogether.

In my opinion......... It shouldn't matter to some guy in Buffalo what a hunter in DeRyter is using to hunt with.

Unless bag limits and season length is addressed, the increase in lethality of archery equipment and muzzleloaders will eventually put a hurt on deer populations. Add this to poaching, nuisance permit killing, cars and disease and there has to be a negative effect on deer numbers.

Now that the Hunter Safety and Bowhunter courses are online...New York has seen a huge increase in licence sales.

I'm not advocating taking the course on line...I'm simply stating facts.

Regarding crossbows....new to 2021.... a crossbow that gives you TWO shots. Yes...you read that correctly.

I guess we need to bring back a double barreled muzzleloader.

The VP of PSE wrote an article a couple of years ago how it was a big mistake allowing the crossbow into archery season. The data shows it is compound shooters picking up the crossbow and not gun hunters which is what the originally thought would happen. So now these compound shooters buy one crossbow that is good out to 75 yards and they will never buy another bow. they become just like the gun hunter that has one gun, takes it out a week before the season, sights it in and goes hunting. So no more buying a new bow every few years, buying arrows to practice often, releases etc.

In the latest edition of New York Outdoor News, I wrote the Commentary about crossbows. The modern crossbow is a modern marvel of technology, that is limitless. The current crop includes, but not limited to the following: The Ravin R500E, 500 fps, 3.6" when cocked, battery powered cocking and uncocking, sniper package available. The Excalibur Twin Strike, 2 sets of limbs, 2 triggers, the ability to pre-cock and pre-load 2 bolts, which can fired within "milliseconds", according to the manufacturer. The Lancehead F1 limbless crossbow, uses a forward and rear drum with "torsion control", 3.9" wide always. The Ten Point Havoc Garmin XERO, comes with a Garmin Xero range finding scope that can range game out to 250 yards and set an aiming point out to 175 yards. How can any of these be considered archery. The appeal is to the firearms hunter who is used to shouldering and firing it from a variety of positions. "Be a two season hunter", "Meet Your Next Rifle". The reason hunters numbers in NYS have been declining is due to the extremely poor management of the herd by the DEC. Even so, NYS still has huge numbers compared to other states, which is why it is so appealing to crossbow manufacturers. The DEC said that in their latest crossbow survey, 61% of firearms hunters would hunt with a crossbow. That amounts to close to 300,000 crossbows. Look at Ohio and see what has happened there. Crossbows accounted for 33% of ALL implements. The Ohio firearms season is just 7-10 days long. Be careful what you wish for.

Out in Colorado, they don't allow Xbows, however in the 3rd week of elk, you can use smoke poles, then it's back to bow... However, you choose one or the other, you can't switch. I for one hunt with my compound and then my Xbow that last week. I don't see an influx of people in that one week. To the point that "put the scope crosshair on a deer out there at 50 yards or so and he's meat" assumes that deer will typically wander within 50 yards. I've used an Xbow since I won it at a SCOPE rally in Bath several years ago, and to date, I've taken one deer, and that was the first year I used it. Did I pass some up? Yes, but they were within easy compound range as well. I don't think Xbows will hurt us as much as changing demographics. Soon we will be such a small voice that we won't be heard ....Much like the Who's in Whoville, or can't we mention Dr. Seuse any more?

My head is spinning. the previous 3 posts are saying in Colorado you can't use a crossbow but the last week they use a crossbow, good out 75 yds, 175 yds and 50yds. 300,000 new crossbow hunters, taken one deer in several years with the crossbow, look at Ohio and see what happened there?

Regardless of instrument you are only allowed so many deer legally who really cares about the means to achieve the harvest?

Maybe one needs to look at harvest regulations not the methods.

You guys using Ohio to illustrate what will happen in NY if crossbows are legalized are spot on. Except you leave out one very critical fact: Ohio knows how to manage their deer herd, NY does not.

Add 300k crossbow hunters into a state with two buck tags, and no age structure or quality and it will make a terrible situation much worse.

Pat, that is why I mentioned Ohio, the declining hunter's numbers, and the TOTAL mismanagement of the State and the herd. Always the answer in NYS is either create a new tax or in the case of the DEC, push a license. Get firearms hunters to buy an archery license and hunt with a familiar implement, and presto, REVENUE. But at what cost? What about safety, with no in-person classes, how is safety being taught correctly? IF, the DEC has it's way, the deer herd will be facing 3 and 1/2 months of pressure. starting with the proposed mid-September antlerless firearms hunt, then both Northern and Southern archery, possibly with full inclusion crossbow expansion, then the Regular season, then late archery/muzzleloader, then the new "Holiday Hunt". What will be left, and those that do survive will be severely depleted mid-Winter. Again, TOTALLY mismanaged. Hunters have fled NY for other states that know how to manage, that is the reason for the decline.

Agree with Pat and Al. New York doesn't care about deer management.

Have no idea about Ohio, I mentioned Colorado to explain how they interject black powder during the 3rd week of 4 week bow season to illustrate that when limited, other means don't crush the season. My reference to Xbow was here in NY, because as stated it's illegal in CO.

Have a friend that has been going to Ohio for shotgun and mz seasons for the last 15+ years. He has said, the last couple years have been horrible. Coincidentally, he is one of the “new” NYS bow hunters ( xbow that is) that never picked up a vertical bow in his 70+ years and kills at least one deer every year with it. The connection between the decline in Ohio and the xbow seems to evade him.

Ralph,

Xbows have been legal in Ohio since 1976. Any decline experienced by your friend is likely a localized issue.

I had more shooters on my new Ohio property in one week than I had on my NY property in ten years. In fact, our biggest buck in NY in the last decade was 20” less than my smallest shooter.

I’m blown away by the quality and quantity of bucks in Ohio. Post rifle season I have identified 53 rack bucks over 2.5 years old on my 130 acres. Last year I had 5 rack bucks from 1.5-3.5 on my NY land and all five were killed during the rifle season by neighbors.

Pat, I’m sure you know Ohio better than I, but I would guess the number of people hunting with the xbow has increased dramatically since it’s inception in 1976. Here in NYS, I always thought that the liberal bag limits during the mz ( again a modernized and highly efficient version of what used to be a flintlock or caplock) have also did a number on our deer herds, like the xbow, in certain areas. The guy I mentioned above now goes to Ohio, not only for the shotgun season, but also the xbow and in-line mz.

Definitely Ralph. Xbow hunters outnumber compounds at least 2/1. They have a big impact on the deer hunting there. I can’t imagine allowing them in NY. I’m about ready to throw in the towel up there. I’ve never seen such a screwed up mess of a deer program as NY. It’s such a shame too, there’s good Ag, decent genetics, and enough land to really improve the herd health and quality there.

53 bucks on 130 acres, how much do you charge for a hunt? I'll come!

Pat, I feel your pain in NY. I own 800+ acres and have had limited success managing my deer herd. I have not thrown the towel in, but have changed my attitude. I try not to think too much about what adjacent landowners are doing, and concentrate on having fun hunting on my property. I still kill the top end bucks in my area, 100”-130” and given its northern zone NY I’m happy with them. The buck quality has gotten better where I hunt because hunting pressure has dropped off. But I agree if only NY wildlife managers would tweek their management , NY could be a destination state. On topic, where I hunt, I don’t see where legalizing crossbows would do anything to harm the deer herd. As I’ve stated no pressure in the big woods even during rifle season.

Ohio and NY would be 2 different worlds regardless of similar management. BUT.....it would still be better in NY if they adopted some of the same concepts like shorter firearms seasons, 1 buck rule, and antlerless management. Remember , landowners and groups of landowners can still implement restrictions without permission from the State.

Agreed NY should go to one buck , that way the guy that wants any buck can still take one and we should be able to get some age on the bucks that don’t get taken. We have everything to grow great bucks but four weeks of gun and two buck tags really limits our potential. If the xbow gets in more deer will be killed , we will need to push for one buck like Ohio.

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