LYNN W's Link
$3,749.99
https://ravincrossbows.com/product/ravin-r500e-sniper/
We have been saying for years x-guns would soon hit 500 fps & few believed it, but sadly that day has come.......8^(
PATHETIC....
I think about the fact that people can be alerted and sent a photo to their cellphone that a deer is under their stand then they can grab their crossbow which in their mind is dialed in at 100 yards. Then walk out to the stand and kill said deer within the hour. Is this what hunting is turning into? Sounds like a blast.
Michael Waddell went on a rant a while back which I appreciated that talked about everyone trying to kill the biggest bucks on camera for sponsorship reasons. Rather than just being satisfied with killing a quality deer. It really made sense and has me turned off to watching any deer hunting on tv.
This type of conversation is what I hate. So I was getting pictures of Split double brow 10 on my reconyx so I jumped in my double bull blind and laid the smack down on that deer. My Mathews was spot on and my Muzzy did the trick at 30 yards. I saw my Lumenock blinking and found that Easton arrow right on the blood trail. That deer was piled up 50 yards away so we grabbed the Kubota and drove him back home.
Sorry for the rant but this technology stuff is getting ridiculous. But people want to do whatever is easiest. I read on the Wisconsin thread where an armorer sets up the gun with scope and sights it in for a price. Then after the season he’ll clean the gun for the people. Easy money for him but isn’t that what hunting is all about. At 39 I feel very old.
I do believe the bow above is the one with the electronic cocking feature, which if that allows me to keep hunting, by myself someday, I would use.
And while this is an IL forum, we don't have to look very far (Wisconsin) to find another state that actually did a study on crossbow usage for deer hunting.
As I recall the study was lengthy & mostly done to prove or disprove the objections from the anti-crossbow crowd. It has been a while since I looked at it, but as I recall some of the key points were: A) Hunters, given a choice, will likely use a crossbow instead of a compound, B) Archery harvest will increase and gun harvest decrease - state wide harvest stays about the same (hunters only want so many deer), C) Average distance of crossbow shots was something like 5 yards more than those from a compound.
Personally, I haven't changed the way I hunt really at all since changing to a crossbow - practice at same distances & still set up stands for that 20-30 yard shot.
Sure, there are those that are super impressed with speed and will take 100 yard shots - but I don't know that to be any more common than it is with compound shooters.
A crossbow doesn't make getting a shot at a deer any easier, but they do make it way easier to have that shot be successful. Like it or don't - it really is OK either way!
If/when crossbow users become the majority, it won't mean they're all wrong, will it?
And as Wisconsin realized, when overall annual harvest doesn't really change, it's really hard to identify a 'problem'.
5 yards more, on the average shot distance, might not sound like much to some, but an educated bowhunter knows that is a game changer....
The average shot distance for compounds is ~17 yards. 17 +5yards = 22yards xbow average.
22y ÷ 17y = 29% increase in average shot yardage....that is a lot !!!
BUT it gets worse......bowhunters can shoot in every direction, so let's now figure the square area the 2 different weapons can cover.....17y radius cover 907 yards sq. AND 22y radius covers 1520 yards sq.
1520 ÷ 907 = 68% increase of square area covered by xbow vs compound.....like I said, game changer.
As usual, the numbers tell the real story...... 8^(
No, an average shot distance increase of 5 yards in Not a Game Changer! Now if that number were 20 yards, I'd probably have to agree.
But to even say that shooting deer at 22 yards with a crossbow vrs. 17 yards with a compound is any thing other than statistically irrelevant, is kind of crazy.
I'm pretty sure almost nobody objects to archery shots 30 yards & under.
LYNN W's Link
2019 Total Statewide Harvest......68056
7,500 more deer killed in the 2020 IL archery season vs 2019.
More then a 10% harvest increase, in one year alone.....
Ya.... tell us more about how high powered xguns belong in the whole archery season because they have zero effect on our IL deerherd.
https://www2.illinois.gov/dnr/hunting/Pages/IDNRHarvestQuery.aspx
I am sure some of the xgun hunters would like for me to "step away" & quite giving facts, data & the truth........
Some won't even acknowledge or are to blind to actually know, there is a 'problem'......
See any problem here ???
Are you hunting in the middle of a field? I can’t think of any of my stands that I have a 360* shooting area. The tree I’m in, brush and cover all limit shooting area. It’s easier to shoot behind a tree with a gun than a bow IMHO.
What I'm not so good with is the misinterpretation and exaggeration of facts and data to lead to a predetermined 'Truth' - like the whole '5 yard' thing above leading to 'the sky is falling due to crossbows' conclusion.
Illinois really isn't that unique. When most other states do something (concealed carry, allow crossbows) why shouldn't the citizens of neighboring states expect the same things. What was the good reason Illinois was the last state to allow concealed carry again?
I'm sure the results in every state that allows crossbows is increased participation in archery season and an increased harvest in archery season. More people participate and then with a more user friendly tool - results not hard to predict.
And if the only place you have to hunt is public land & it now sucks due to increased participation - what part of the word Public are you missing? I have a spot a mile from my house - but is was packed with hunters before crossbows. And all of those hunters have just as much right to it as I do, even though probably none live as close to it as me.
And yes, the other problem I have is someone trying to legislate crossbows out of archery season - basically because they don't like them and/or it made their public land 'secret' spot not so good anymore. No an expected result is not a good enough reason.
I put that in exactly the same category as someone saying - 'Well I don't care about AR-15s, so don't care if they are outlawed'.
If you don't like crossbows, don't use one. If you feel that there aren't enough deer where you hunt, kill less.
And if Illinois say No to a crossbow with 2 arrows cocked or 350 fps max speed - fine by me.
Kids teams sports were cancelled, right? How many people hunted more due to simply having the time to?
How does that factor into the harvest data?
Another 'truth' you may want to ignore if you hate crossbows.
1) Only 1 buck between crossbow and firearms. If using a compound or traditional bow you are entitled to 1 bonus buck.
Just a thought.
I wonder if some people would go back to the compound.
I think they are a VERY amazing weapon. The engineering, the power, the accuracy, the speed, ect.....that they now possess is simply astonishing !!!
Now the more important question.....Do I think they belong in the archery season ???..... NO ...Not for abled bodied adults & not for kids. They belong in the gun season or a special xgun season, not a 100+ day archery season !!!
You know, passing, 500 fps threshold is very impressive but, the R500 above, is the first production xgun to pass the 200 fp (foot pounds) of kinetic energy threshold. IF....you really understand a ballistic chart, you know that the KE a projectile has, when it reaches the target, is the most important killing factor. The best compounds have KE around 90 fp. So they have now more than doubled the killing power of compounds. Compounds have pretty much reached their potential, because of the basic limiting factor of drawing a bow. The defining factor to most of us..... The xguns have no limiting factor because there is no human factor, in their energy output.
What I worry about is the number of people who pick up a crossbow, believing the hype that you can harvest a deer at 75-100 yards. They end up wounding animals and move on to the next one with little or no effort expended trying to find the animal. There appears to be no love of the sport.
The other issue is poaching. We have locals and NR driving around on quads and trucks, shooting deer. IMO, the new generation of crossbows are a poacher’s wet dream.
Put’em in the shotgun and muzzleloader season, unless there’s a solid medical reason to shoot one. Very solid reason. Hell, I cut my left hand off, had it reattached and was shooting my compound 6 months later.
That’s the stupidest thing I believe I ever read.
And make no mistake, not all coin comes in to politicians under the table. For AZ HB2072, Randy Newburg (On Your Own Adventures) helped my cause by providing me Weir's full campaign contribution list. This by law had to be fully disclosed to the public. All approx. 12 board members of AZSFW were listed as donors. If you actually believe thieves like Costello write up bad game management legislation for any other reason, you are as naive as drummond. Tell me, why would Costello go out of his way to circumvent an entire state department of natural resources full of professional game managers, whose job it is to manage the deer??? In order to craft his own custom policy. You can't possibly be that stupid, can you?!
Costello's resume does not indicate ANY wildlife management education at all. Only law enforcement. So you tell me, what makes him think he is more qualified to manage the deer herd than the ILDNR?
Chaching.
If you are worried about herd growth/management, then why not just sell a limited number of permits per county and call it good? Why limit any weapon to any season? Let me buy permits for however many deer my county can support based on the herd and let me hunt them as I see fit...stickbow/compund/crossbow/slug gun/muzzleloader...I do understand the limits on high powered rifles in our flat land and highly populated areas.
I hear so many people bag on crossbows because it's "not fair to the deer" or "not fair to the traditional hunters"... when did fairness enter into it? Ethics and safety should be the thing. Shouldn't we be trying to kill the deer as efficiently as possible? I believe that should be an individual decision...maybe I don't have the time to get hunting accurate with my recurve (which is the truth), so I use my compound or my crossbow or my shotgun to put that deer meat in my freezer for my family to eat... People act like hunting is some religion or something sometimes...let's not forget that the Humans rule the world because of our ability to innovate and create tools that make staying alive easier. I suppose we should all go back to living in caves and wearing animal skins because that's how it started out too...
Now I’m seeing a crossbow that shoots 2 arrows at one time. Where does it end?
Poaching is still the biggest issue I see with a crossbow. Too easy to carry cocked and loaded in you vehicle and shoot out a window. Seen it done last year here by a guy from Michigan.
As mentioned, only a select few. Will fork over 4 k for a crossbow. I doubt there's anything to worry about when talking about an expensive xbow. Now, xbows in general will have an effect on deer numbers, I hunt public land and it's all you see nowadays, xbows at every turn.
