Summit Treestands
Proposed changes to doe tag application
Pennsylvania
Contributors to this thread:
Rut Nut 14-Jan-21
hawkeye in PA 14-Jan-21
Rut Nut 14-Jan-21
bill v 15-Jan-21
horsethief51 15-Jan-21
Griz 17-Jan-21
BSKED (mobile) 17-Jan-21
BSKED (mobile) 17-Jan-21
Griz 17-Jan-21
bill v 17-Jan-21
Griz 18-Jan-21
horsethief51 18-Jan-21
Bob McArthur 18-Jan-21
horsethief51 18-Jan-21
Griz 18-Jan-21
horsethief51 18-Jan-21
horsethief51 18-Jan-21
Griz 18-Jan-21
Bob McArthur 18-Jan-21
Teeton 18-Jan-21
BSKED (mobile) 18-Jan-21
Rut Nut 18-Jan-21
Griz 18-Jan-21
Rut Nut 18-Jan-21
BSKED (mobile) 18-Jan-21
Bob McArthur 18-Jan-21
BSKED (mobile) 18-Jan-21
Griz 18-Jan-21
bill v 18-Jan-21
Rut Nut 19-Jan-21
Griz 19-Jan-21
Rut Nut 19-Jan-21
horsethief51 19-Jan-21
Rut Nut 19-Jan-21
Griz 19-Jan-21
Rut Nut 20-Jan-21
Griz 20-Jan-21
Griz 20-Jan-21
bill v 20-Jan-21
Griz 20-Jan-21
BSKED (mobile) 20-Jan-21
HuntheWind 21-Jan-21
Rut Nut 21-Jan-21
From: Rut Nut
14-Jan-21

Rut Nut's Link
Process! NO, not getting rid of those dang PINK ENVELOPES! BUT................now we can only buy(and possess) 4 unfilled doe tags at any given time. You can buy more ONLY if you fill one. So you fill one of the four, you get to buy a fifth. You fill a second tag you get a 6th etc.............as long as there are tags available.

See link for details.

14-Jan-21
LOL, glad to see your happy;)

From: Rut Nut
14-Jan-21
Well, I know some folks that might not be too happy now! No more buying 16 tags before the season opens in 5C or 5D now! ;-)

From: bill v
15-Jan-21
Well. They should be unlimited down here

15-Jan-21
Good explanation on the link.

From: Griz
17-Jan-21
So to get additional tags after filling some you need to go to the courthouse? From what it says you will ONLY be able to get them at a courthouse. How is a working guy supposed to get to the courthouse during business hours so he can hunt on Saturday. The whole idea sounds ridiculous to me and much more inconvenient than how it is done now. The e license sounds ok except for the tagging requirements. Why can't this state do anything right?

17-Jan-21
If Pa would only adopt NJ does license system, life would be great. Of course the zones I hunt are unlimited does, which you get with your general hunting license. I know this will make some happy, but for me it sucks.

17-Jan-21
Tagging along on my former post. Not uncommon for Bill V and I to shoot 2 does Saturday morning, then 2 does Saturday afternoon. That would eliminate a Monday morning hunt for me, as I need to go to courthouse to get license. Since e licenses are available, why can’t you just buy the doe tag when you report your harvest, and print your carcass tag. Not everyone can make it to a courthouse. Just my 2 cents.

From: Griz
17-Jan-21
Hoping they tweak these proposals before setting in stone.

From: bill v
17-Jan-21
This is insane for us down here in the special regs area doing management hunts. It is possible that they will take tags out of the pockets of the heavy killers. If I’d have to go to the courthouse, I’m screwed . As Bsked said, it’s possible to use multiple tags in a short period of time. We hunt multible days a week after work and Saturday’s . We need to kill more deer down here not less. Reminds me of the rule they had years ago where we had to get out of stand and tag a deer before shooting another. They realized that was a bad idea when they want more dead deer. They got rid of that rule even though it appeared that they would not enforce it. Again, needs to be unlimited

Maybe make archery unlimited

From: Griz
18-Jan-21
I sent an email to the PGC today regarding the "over the counter" rule they are discussing. I believe anybody that spends time hunting in the Special Regs area should do likewise. Having to go to the courthouse for each and every tag over your first 4 will dramatically impact hunting time and harvest. My email and their response below:

Regarding the statement that tags would be available over the counter after you have used your initial allotment of 4: This is very inconvenient for a working person. I currently hunt 5D and harvesting does is a high priority for me and many of my fellow hunters. Having to go into Norristown or other county seat to get more tags is impractical. If I use my “last” tag on a Saturday afternoon, I would need to take time off of work to get to the courthouse during business hours to get another tag. For me this would occur multiple times within a season. This not only cuts into my hunting time but it may not be possible for days or weeks to get off work, thus decreasing my time afield even further. Add in the inconvenience of parking, travel etc., it sure seems archaic for an agency that wants the deer harvested. I understand the theory, but not allowing mail in applications is tantamount to your theory failing. I am glad to see unlimited tags statewide but the distribution methods being discussed are impossible for us guys that hunt for an hour or two after work each night and Saturdays, and don’t get much time off of work. Most guys that buy quantities of tags do so because they have property access and the capability of harvesting multiple deer. Restricting their access to tags will effectively ruin your most efficient hunters in the Special Rags areas.

Thank you,

Thank you for sending an electronic mail message to the Pennsylvania Game Commission. The agency values your input. This automated response is provided to inform you that we have received your message and referred it to the appropriate staff. If you are commenting on proposed hunting and furtaking seasons and bag limits, or other regulatory matters pending before the Board of Game Commissioners, your comments will be tabulated along with the other correspondence received by the agency and presented to the Board of Game Commissioners for its consideration. Please contact the region office that serves the county in question, region office contact information can be found at http://bit.ly/PGCContactUs.

18-Jan-21
Good idea Chris. I am, also going to alert the UBP's Legislative Committee on this subject and discussion here on bowsite about this. Hopefully we can bring it up at the upcoming PGC meeting.

From: Bob McArthur
18-Jan-21
I think it's great! There's a lot of "Tag Pigs" that buy way more than they fill.

18-Jan-21
Bob, I don't think what Brian and Bill do is being tag pigs as you call it. They are guys that just have the time to do what the PGC wants done as well as provide a service to home owners.

From: Griz
18-Jan-21
Bob, that may be true but if tags are unlimited that problem won't matter. Most years I use all of the tags I chose to get back in June. Making me miss time off work to get tags multiple times throughout the season is only screwing the guys that actually kill deer, not the tag hogs that sit on them. Having tags that are easy to acquire allows truly dedicated hunters to stay in the field until the end of the season. Making it difficult will only cut back on participation and that benefits no one. I can't take time off to get tags so my season would be over far sooner. This idea is counter intuitive for the PGC. Make tags unlimited and allowing unlimited purchase before the season in Special Regs = Many more $$$ for the PGC.

18-Jan-21
To add to what Chris has done and suggested for the rest of us to do: It would be right to summarize that Legislation is needed to permit the PGC to sell all of the antlerless tags via PALS. This might be (politically) difficult to get done because it would take $100s of thousands of dollars out of county treasurer's offices, and, the county treasurer's association has more influence over the politicians than the conservation community. We need to write letters to our state politicians in addition to telling the game commission we support it.

18-Jan-21
If the PGC sells 900,000 doe tags thru the county treasurers the counties get $900,000. That's a lot of hunter/conservationist money that goes somewhere else.

From: Griz
18-Jan-21
Art, you are correct. More importantly, we are the customers of the PGC and the question needs to be asked: Why make it more difficult on customers to get tags? Bob, with all due respect, there may be some guys that are tog hogs but I think the majority are guys like Bill, Brian and myself who pretty much buy what they need. I usually only have one tag left at the end of the season and that's so I can hunt till the end. Most guys I know buy only a couple of tags and they are for different units depending on where they hunt. Some guys may be able to get to a courthouse easily but most won't be abl;e to. I don't see a downside for SRs to have unlimited tags, and sell them as they have, 3 per envelope, as many as you think you might use. Everyday I have to take off to go to the courthouse is one less day I am hunting and for me that projection sucks.

From: Bob McArthur
18-Jan-21
For every Brian, or, Bill, there's 30 guys buying dozens of tags that don't even fill 3 or 4.

From: Teeton
18-Jan-21
Could it be that guys buy say 2 or 3 tags and use them and now after there tags are filled that they can't get more tags to kill more deer, because there sold out?? Also let me get this straight,, If I get 4 tags and use 1,2 or 4 the only place I can get another tags is to go, in person to the court house, I can't fill out my online report card and then just mail to the court house for more ???? Ed

18-Jan-21
Ed to your point the system is from the 1990’s. The solution is simple. When you report your harvest, there a simple question. “Would you like to purchase another antlerless tag?” If you answer yes, it takes you to a portal which allows you to buy the license and print it out. If they want to charge me an xtra dollar to print it and mail it that’s fine. I have my temporary paper tag til I get the one that’s mailed. I’m no IT genius, but I think I figured it out. The portal could be linked to a county treasurer.

From: Rut Nut
18-Jan-21
You guys know I am NOT a fan of the system, BUT..........I see what they are trying to do. Kinda like an “earn a tag” system. You get 4 tags, then if you want more you just need to shoot more deer. Prevents those guys that buy 15-20 tags and only fill a couple. Or maybe the ANTIS that buy a bunch so hunters can’t. Or even the guys that buy them and burn them cause they think too many doe are being shot. Now they can only buy 4...................and not use them!

And there is nothing saying you CAN’T apply by mail once they go OVER THE COUNTER. That’s the way it is now. They are just (proposing to) moving the date up to Sept...............but you should still be able to apply by mail until the allocation is exhausted.

From: Griz
18-Jan-21
Bob, name names. Who do you know that actually does that? I have dozens upon dozens of friends that hunt special regs and I have never heard of anyone doing that. Most guys are not going to spend $150 on doe tags to purposely not use them. I believe that you think that happens but in reality I seriously doubt it. Even if you are correct in your assertion, if tags become unlimited, it won't matter how many tags get bought and are unused. My main problem is having to go to the courthouse for each and every tag after my 4th. Another issue is if you hunt upstate. The first draw will go for up there, second for SRs, third for SRs. You shoot two doe in the first week of archery. Now you have to take a day off to go to the courthouse to get another 2 tags. That's one less day your upstate if you are me. I'll take the hassle of pink envelopes everyday over sitting on the sidelines because I can't get to the courthouse during business hours for a week or more. Brian has a good solution. This was obviously devised by someone who has never hunted or purchased licenses. Or likes to spend time in a tree stand. The PGC continues to amaze me with their lack of knowledge on how things work. Its like a priest giving marriage advice!!

From: Rut Nut
18-Jan-21
I remember a certain Bowsiter who posted a pic of like 16? doe tags one time................. ;-)

18-Jan-21
I’m going to call this as I see it. This legislation is specifically geared towards SR area. If you hunt 3A for example, those tags sell out every year be the third draw. They are going to sell out under this system. Any unit in the state that sells their allocated tags by the 3rd draw currently, will sell out under this system. Their is still going to be an allocation per unit as I’m reading it. For guys like Chris, Bill V and myself, this legislation sucks. I’m not sure how your mail has been up there, but I’m getting Xmas cards that were mailed middle of December. Someone needs to re-think this. I’m all for the 4 tags, I’m not for the courthouse or mail option. Both of those will take hours from me sitting in a stand shooting does for homeowners who hate the deer.

From: Bob McArthur
18-Jan-21
It's my opinion. It ain't my problem if you guys don't like it.

18-Jan-21
That it how I took it Bob. Just an opinion.

From: Griz
18-Jan-21
My opinion is leave things alone on obtaining tags in SRs but make it unlimited to alleviate Bob's issue. Let us buy what we need, 3 per envelope in the second draw, and if people want to buy 100 tags so be it because they can't sell out if unlimited. I get Bob's point and it sucks if they have a limit but with no limit it works. I'm not sure unlimited tags is a good idea upstate with what I've seen up there in my unit of 3C.

From: bill v
18-Jan-21
Where’s Stekewood?

From: Rut Nut
19-Jan-21
No way should it be unlimited statewide! Maybe in the SRA's.............................maybe.

This won't affect most hunters for the most part. I only get a limited opportunity every year to hunt 5C. So I usually only get 4 tags there. A couple years I have used 3 of the 4 tags. Usually fill at least one.

If this passes, I will get one 2D tag, one 3D tag and one 5C tag in the first 3 rounds. Then get another 5C tag when they go over the counter on Sept 13th. If I fill one or both 5C tags at the 5C hunt, I will get one or 2 more over the counter after that. I will gladly take a few hours of leave time from work and stop at the Treasurer's office before work to get them over the counter and eliminate one of those STUPID PINK ENVELOPES! ;-)

I feel for you guys that buy multiple tags (>4) in the SRA's every year. If this passes, it will definitely make your lives more complicated................................................

From: Griz
19-Jan-21
Try and consider the guys who CAN"T take leave for a couple of hours from work. Not everyone has that option. And going into Norristown is not a fun deal if that is your closest Courthouse.

From: Rut Nut
19-Jan-21
Chris- I DO feel bad for you guys! They should do SOMETHING to make it easier to get tags after you shoot that 4th doe- you should NOT have to go to the treasurer’s office to buy them over the counter!

Maybe I did not do the best job of explaining myself in my previous posts, but I agree with you. I have always said the PGC needs to do everything they can to get the tags to the hunters that WILL (and DO) fill them!

I think this proposal is actually an attempt by the PGC to do just THAT! Unfortunately, I think they may have overlooked the complicated logistics involved! : (

19-Jan-21
Perry, I am unable to read the proposal. Is there another place to see it besides the news paper article.

From: Rut Nut
19-Jan-21
Not that I know of Art. I can’t see it now either. Guess I should have copied and printed it. : (

From: Griz
19-Jan-21
The proposal is on the PGC website under Press Releases - Agendas. Also on their FB page about a week ago, I sent my comments and heard back tonight that my email was read to the Commissioners and was appreciated. More voices would be good. I also signed up to leave a recorded message for the meeting. They are supposed to call me to record my comments tomorrow. The mail is a problem too. Like Brian, I got a XMas card today that was postmarked December 12th. I also got a larger envelope, the type they send licenses in that was sent in late November. Fortunately it was not anythjing very important. I really wish they would just hold off until they can do POS tags or complete elicenses with tagging options that don't require mail or courthouses. One other thing, I recently renewed my carry permit and it took around 45 minutes to get through the metal detector because of a line. So don't figure on a quick run in and out. I hope they reconsider.

From: Rut Nut
20-Jan-21
I agree with you Chris. I'll send an e-mail even though it won;t affect me much. Maybe this could FINALLY be the stimulus to go to a TRUE Point of Sale system(for EVERYTHING!) Take the TWO weakest links OUT of the equation..........................1) USPS and 2) COUNTY TREASURERS! ;-)

From: Griz
20-Jan-21
I just received a call from the PGC and they recorded my statement to be read at the public comment section. I mainly talked to the Special Regs area and how the proposed changes would hamstring the effort that they, the PGC, asked us to do for them which is to kill does. I mentioned the difficulty for some to go to a courthouse, the problems with mail delivery and asked them to consider either a POS option, a print tags at home option with kill registration and automatic option to buy and print another like Brian mentioned or a mail in option with the ability to use a temporary tag until the tags are received in the mail due to the USPS problems. I stressed that putting hunters on the sidelines waiting for tags or the chance to get to a courthouse is detrimental to what their goals are.

From: Griz
20-Jan-21
And for Bob, I asked that they make SRs unlimited to stop the potential for tag hording (without being used) and anti-hunting, anti-doe hunting tag burning.

From: bill v
20-Jan-21
Not ce. Way to stay on it Chris. Thanks man

From: Griz
20-Jan-21
Bill, I really stressed that having tags in our pockets before the season was how we planned our hunting. I don't belong to an organization for harvesting does and I don't kill dozens of deer but I do have properties and personal relationships with the owners and they expect me to kill does. I plan my hunts to maximize my season. I want to be hunting on the last day with one tag in my pocket and hopefully fill it just before dark. I want the hassle of getting tags to not intrude on the season. I keep logs and pretty much know how many tags I need before the season based on historical precedence and that what I buy. No extra tags just to carry and pay for. Just what I need. If I am lucky early then I back off to insure a full season, or I go to another unit. I sure hope they change this proposal.

20-Jan-21
Rut appreciate the email even though this doesn’t impact you.

Chris thanks for staying on top of this. It’s just counter productive. I mentioned this very thing about 3 years ago for special regs area. You get 3 tags, but SR zones are unlimited, and you can buy/print your tags at home. You shoot 2 deer Saturday morning you can go home and print 2 tags to replace the ones you used. The 3 tags in the SR area would not affect your ability to purchase up to 3 more tags in any other statewide zone.

The current proposal stinks insofar as you either need to mail/go to courthouse to replace your tags. If they had Etag or ability to print the tag, I’d be all for this.

From: HuntheWind
21-Jan-21
Wonder is DMAP tags would be included in the 4, or would be separate?

From: Rut Nut
21-Jan-21
Here is another article about the proposed changes:

Year-in and year-out, Pennsylvania’s deer hunters look forward to July, which marks the start of the antlerless deer license application process. This year, they may need to pay close attention to the process, especially if they apply for more than one or two permits, since the state is considering revamping it to allow for the purchase of ‘unlimited’ antlerless tags statewide.

Pennsylvania’s antlerless deer license quotas are set annually to help manage white-tailed deer herds across the state on a Wildlife Management Unit (WMU) basis. And while most WMUs sell out each year, one or two units always have tags remaining well into the season. For example, the Pennsylvania Game Commission reports, some 16,000 permits were still available in November in WMUs 2A and 4A in the western part of the state.

Under current regulations, hunters may not possess more than three antlerless deer tags unless they are hunting in WMUs 5C, 5D or 2B. In those three WMUs only, any leftover tags have historically been made available to the public on an ‘unlimited’ basis via mail-in starting the first Monday in August and over the counter starting at the end of that month.

Under the new ‘unlimited’ proposal, which will be considered at the game commission meeting on Jan. 23, sportsmen will be able to hold up to four antlerless tags at any one time. In addition, it would be possible for a person to procure a fifth tag if they harvest a deer and officially report the animal via the commission’s registration system, making them eligible to purchase an additional tag from a WMU that still has antlerless deer licenses available.

According to the commission, this proposed new allocation method “maintains equitable and fair distribution of antlerless licenses, and importantly, also helps ensure that the quota of antlerless licenses set by the commission for each WMU is issued to the fullest extent possible, thus supporting its deer management goals. This new process will simplify the antlerless deer license regulations by applying the same distribution rules to all WMUs across the board.”

If the proposal is approved, sportsmen will be able to purchase one antlerless permit per mail-in period, with ‘unlimited’ over-the-counter sales in all WMUs that still have tags available beginning the second Monday in September. One big change of note for sportsmen who historically have purchased tags for WMU 5C, which encompasses much of the Lehigh Valley, and WMUs 5D and 2B, is that mailing in for unlimited antlerless deer licenses will no longer be an option.

Historically, sportsmen were able to apply for and receive an unlimited number of tags starting with the first ‘unsold’ round of license sales (Aug. 3 this past year). Under the new proposal, however, they would only be able to apply for one permit per mail-in application period, with the only way to purchase ‘unlimited’ tags being to appear in person at a county courthouse starting the second Monday in September.

Another big change to be considered by the commission is the expansion of Sunday hunting opportunities, not in the number of days – which must be enacted through a legislative change – but in the types of game sportsmen can pursue on the state’s three legal Sunday hunting dates.

For 2021, the commission is proposing allowing sportsmen to pursue squirrels, ruffed grouse, rabbits, ring-necked pheasant, woodchucks and other game species that are in-season on the proposed Sunday archery deer hunting day Nov. 14 and the proposed Sunday firearms bear hunting date Nov. 21. These regulations changes would also create a second Sunday of archery deer hunting Nov. 21 in WMUs 5C, 5D and 2B, where the archery deer season continues through the day after Thanksgiving.

If these changes are given preliminary approval at the commission’s January meeting, they will then vote on final approval at their next meeting in April.

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