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Contributors to this thread:
NCK 17-Jan-21
Quailhunter 17-Jan-21
crestedbutte 17-Jan-21
Quailhunter 17-Jan-21
Slate 18-Jan-21
Trebarker 18-Jan-21
Koog 18-Jan-21
NCK 18-Jan-21
ksq232 19-Jan-21
KSflatlander 19-Jan-21
ksq232 19-Jan-21
KSflatlander 19-Jan-21
keepemsharp 19-Jan-21
KSflatlander 19-Jan-21
Thornton 19-Jan-21
Kansan 19-Jan-21
KSflatlander 19-Jan-21
Catscratch 20-Jan-21
Koog 20-Jan-21
KSflatlander 20-Jan-21
Catscratch 20-Jan-21
Koog 20-Jan-21
KSflatlander 20-Jan-21
Thornton 20-Jan-21
Copperhead 20-Jan-21
Catscratch 20-Jan-21
Koog 20-Jan-21
be still 20-Jan-21
Koog 20-Jan-21
Koog 20-Jan-21
Catscratch 20-Jan-21
writer 20-Jan-21
KSflatlander 20-Jan-21
Catscratch 20-Jan-21
Kansan 20-Jan-21
KSflatlander 20-Jan-21
crestedbutte 20-Jan-21
Slate 20-Jan-21
Quailhunter 20-Jan-21
KSflatlander 21-Jan-21
From: NCK
17-Jan-21
“The Social Dilemma”

I found this documentary/drama very interesting. Basically, top end engineers/CEO’s from top Social media sites such as Facebook, Google, Twitter, Tik Tok, YouTube and so on. They are giving a warning shot about how dangerous these companies are becoming. What artificial intelligence is doing behind the scenes and the amount of psychology involved. Got me thinking about how they could “hugely” change the views of 100’s of millions of people about hunting. I have attached the trailer but if you get a chance watch “The Social Dilemma” on Netflix it goes into great detail.

From: Quailhunter
17-Jan-21
I’m watching it right now. Fascinating and disturbing.

From: crestedbutte
17-Jan-21
About 3-4 mos. ago I told people on here about it and provided a link as well. I like what you did there with that “hunting” hook comment! Will probably get more on here to watch it now. Wish I had thought of that angle?

I too found it very entertaining and enlightening. Made me want to sell my phone after watching it. Of course, I didn’t but certainly made me more aware when on it and what I decide to click on and look at.

We all have heard rumors or kind of know about all this mysterious AI programming but it just felt different hearing about it and strategy behind the design of some of these daily features we knowingly or unknowingly use when explained by the designer/inventor!

From: Quailhunter
17-Jan-21
I teach high school. It’s a lost cause with our youth.

From: Slate
18-Jan-21
I’m on a couple of hunting forums and that’s it for me. YouTube I enjoy for learning and research for new products etc.

From: Trebarker
18-Jan-21
Nothing new, you have been being programmed, trained, tracked, and influenced long before the internet and cellphones.

From: Koog
18-Jan-21
You guys have to think very deeply about this topic. If everything goes as the black hats plan, and they get away with this, there is infinite possible outcomes all ending up confiscating you guns and your rights. They now are pressuring companies to do whatever they demand, one could lose their employment, insurance, medical care....who knows what else. I always said when they took control of your employment, it's near the end. If you don't believe it, look at the news....Look at Curt Schilling as an example, insurance dropped because of his beliefs and what he tweeted on Twitter. Companies have fallen to them for fear of being called a name and ostracized. It's coming, what are we willing to sacrifice? We all know liberals hate weapons and hate hunting. I wonder if we will recognize our sport in four years under liberal control.

From: NCK
18-Jan-21
"Nothing new, you have been being programmed, trained, tracked, and influenced long before the internet and cellphones.

Randy I respectfully disagree with your statement. This is very different from times before Social media. Yes, I understand what you are saying and agree to a point but this is not the same at all. They address exactly what you are saying above and then explain why it is different in the last 20 years since social media evolved. Preteen/teen suicide alone should cause us great concern. Huge jumps in that % in the last 20 years. Here is one of the guys in the documentary but I recommend the actual documentary above.

From: ksq232
19-Jan-21
Fascinating and troubling both... I've never been a part of FaceBook; but I think I'm now going to exit all political social media interaction. I've known for a while it hasn't been good for me, it most definitely makes me irritable.

From: KSflatlander
19-Jan-21
I’m liberal and I own guns and have been a hunter since I was knee high. Same ole fear tactics I’ve heard since grade school. Clinton, Obama, they are all coming after your freedom and guns but I have yet to see it. Yeah yeah I know...right wingers stopped them right lol. Same ole fear tactics. Every Amendment to the Constitution has limits and those limits are debatable hence the SCOTUS. Taking away all guns...not doable unless you change the Constitution...not going to happen.

You work for a private company they can fire you for any violation of their policy (part of right-to-work policies that Republicans push). And they all have clauses in their handbooks that discuss personal conduct. You don’t like it go work somewhere else. That’s free market capitalism.

By the way, I don’t do social media...never have...never will.

From: ksq232
19-Jan-21
flatlander, this is social media... :)

But, since you just had to bring up politics, I'm through with this particular thread now, so don't respond to me. lol

From: KSflatlander
19-Jan-21
Koog brought up politics...not me. Feel free to call him out.

From: keepemsharp
19-Jan-21
Too bad you are scaird to put your name up here?

From: KSflatlander
19-Jan-21
Dave- this is the third time. Is it a threat? If yes, then my answer is self evident. I’m not putting my full name out there. Did you not see the Capitol on January 6th. There are some real wackos out there.

I sent you a PM but no response.

By the way, there are 2 other on this thread with no last name. Why do you not call them out?

The bad outweighs the good with social media for me. Plus I don’t want any of my old girlfriends to find me ;)

From: Thornton
19-Jan-21
You used to have your full name up I thought

From: Kansan
19-Jan-21
Ryan, there’s no way you’re paying attention if that’s what you seriously believe. Clinton banned “assault weapons” in 94, and the left is licking their chops to do it again. They’re pushing for gun bans, ammo bans, magazine capacity restrictions, firearm registry, and much more. The left is in fact after our weapons, and to claim anything otherwise is delusional.

From: KSflatlander
19-Jan-21
I seriously believe that. You can’t change a constitutional amendment with a simple majority. If I have to limit what weapons I can buy...I still have options for protecting myself. I can’t put as many bullets in the magazine..ok. If that saves one innocent kid in a school shooting then I’m open to listening to proposals and solutions.

I am the left and I own many weapons but I’ll never be on social media. Some radical idiots want to take all guns but they will have to change the constitution first...never going to happen IMO. I don’t buy into the fear tactics.

From: Catscratch
20-Jan-21
First, I want you to know that I'm fine with you being a liberal. I'm sure there are very fine people on both sides, so know that I don't care what your politics are. My question is solely on constitutional rights.

biden wants a $200 punishment tax on all semiautomatic rifles. This severely limits who can own 2nd Amendment guaranteed items. Which in a nutshell strips rights from low income people. You are correct in that they are not likely to change the Constitution but they are stating they want to make it financially stressful to own your constitutional rights. Sometimes I like to change a word and see if I still agree, to make things apples to apples so to speak. What if we changed it from a "constitutional right to own and bear arms" to "a constitutional right of freedom of movement". Now instead of a $200 tax every year to own each rifle it's a $200 tax to cross each state line. Yes you still are allowed to travel across the country, the right has not been removed and the constitution not changed. You just have stop at a gate on every state line and shell out $200. What if it was "Freedom of Free Speech" that they were going to tax? Would you be ok paying the government $200 for every social media platform you post on, or have to register your thoughts with the government before publishing them in any matter? I am not for this concept. It is not for the people. It's for the people they choose. It's not a fear tactic. He has stated plainly that he wants to tax guns in this manner, wants make them cost prohibitive to those who he feels shouldn't have them. A right should not depend on how much money you have. Are you for this type of financial regulation on rights?

So my question is; since you stated above that you are willing to take one for the team... that you are ok with the restrictions in principle... are you willing to apply the same concept to all of your rights?

From: Koog
20-Jan-21
I'm not sure what you guys have read into my post, I'm not talking about laws and rights although you make good talking points on both. My fear lies mostly with the media and social media having power to twist opinion. How they can be used to formulate and change opinions of the people, or should I say quieting the people. To pick and choose who wins or who loses, to subjugate people and our government, most especially the people who head our government. No secret our leaders do for those who make the most noise, suppose we only hear from one side while the anti side is quieted. And the fact now they know who we are, where we are and our habits through social media. You say you can use an alias, but you had to enter you email to get that confirmation query you answered to post in bowsite. They now have your email you used, they can track it back to your email registration. Your computer also has to use an IP address, can be used to track back to the source at least when you connected. Don't say they never would know, every credit card purchase can be data mined. Give the store clerk at Cabela's your phone number and it gets tagged to a purchase, tomorrow you get an email to buy something you didn't know you wanted. Now add your public records to the query, think about it. Every time you supply your email, your phone number, your zip code it can be used against you. Never mind your name or address, not good key elements to a query, but those verified elements can be good links to everything you've done and where you went. Takes some thought doesn't it.

From: KSflatlander
20-Jan-21
Catscratch- I like your thought process. The way of thinking things through. I had not thought of a gun tax in that way and it did make me think.

I’ll do you one better than the “freedom of movement” or paying a tax crossings state lines. Imagine if you paid a tax just to have shelter. Something that is so necessary to just live...the right to own a house. Imagine if the government actually taxed you annually for your right own a shelter.

I would gladly pay $200/year to cross state lines if it was going to prevent violence toward our children. Or if it went to free mental healthcare for people with mental health issues.

But there in is the rub. Is the $200 really spent for the greater good or is it wasted? Could the private sector do it better (conservative)?

So my simple answer is...I would absolutely pay $200/year to own a gun if the funds were use to make schools safer. To help reduce the risk of another school shooting. And don’t believe the hype, there are ways to reduce the risk (without arming teachers); however, I don’t think there is a way to totally eliminate the risk. But the lack of trust that the government will take the gun tax and use it for the better good is duly earned.

Don’t forget that we are in essence “taxed” or charged for movement. For example drivers license, passports, gas tax, tolls, hotel tax, etc.

Like I said, I open to discussing ways to reduce risk of preventing on more school shooting. All options except the 2A itself (my own self defense and protection of my property) are on the table for me.

I just get sick and tired of hear “the left”...”it’s the left’s fault.” Who the hell is the left? You seriously think that all Americans fit in two neat boxes...left and right? And that one is right and one wrong? Seriously? Those labels have been fed to you by Rush Limbaugh and the EIB network for decades. Left and right are just constructs to control your thinking. Sometimes I’m on the right side of an issue sometimes the left. I don’t let Limbaugh, MSM (drive by media), social media, nor you tell me how I should feel. I am the LEFT and I’m not what Limbaugh or Hannity says I am. The right is not what Rachel Maddow or Don Lemon says you are. “The left”...stupidest thing I ever heard.

OP...I still don’t use social media except here.

From: Catscratch
20-Jan-21
koog - I didn't reply to your post (with my last post), the thread took a different direction and I stepped in there. I agree with you and find media very manipulative, always have. I tend to listen to both sides (Limbaugh types and NPR types) on the same day. They tend to talk about the same things, but tell you how you should feel about it differently. To be honest, so far in our history it's been easy to listen to the side you want to hear. Most people look for affirmation rather than information. When getting what they want, people seem to be ok with being manipulated. Until recently both sides could choose who manipulated them, now one side is being attacked for removal. I'm not good with either of it and put little attention in MSM, the facebooks, and twitter. I don't want subjected to their methods.

Flatlander - I almost brought housing up in my first post. If I had it would have been to bring up that additional 200% tax on guns is paramount to a 200% tax on any home over 1000 square feet, or tires that aren't fuel economic highway tread. These could be justified for climate change. If so are you willing to tear down your house and rebuild in order to help humanity (or avoid the punishment tax)? Can you afford to do so? How many other people can afford to do either; pay the increased tax, or build new to accommodate their new definition?

I'm not for paying annual taxes to own something I paid taxes on to purchase. I don't agree with it. I'm fine with paying taxes to fund roads, police, mental health services, public education, and fire departments. I already give the government 33% of what I make, they should find a way to fix their problems with the current funding. No reason to take more. The reason I can say that is I don't feel the extra tax is going to be used 100% towards solving issues. The tax on guns is a punishment and intended to limit ownership. It has nothing to do with helping. Plain and simple. I would be interested in proof of otherwise but I suspect all that can be found is that the gun tax will be promised to fund free college or women in Pakistan.

From: Koog
20-Jan-21
Hold your tongue Flatlander, you do and not just here. Don't forget your text doesn't just live on you computer, it travels across the internet thru Amazon servers or google, from there get pushed to me and others. There is where the data gets mined, unless encrypted. You buy something with a credit card, transaction goes thru the internet to those servers to where ever to be processed. Is your credit card linked to your email (I'll bet it is), do you get a monthly statement emailed to you? Social Media is just a place you can rant, but the owners are the ones using the data.

From: KSflatlander
20-Jan-21
Koog- it’s called free market capitalism. They are private companies and you can choose not to use their services. Also, you signed an agreement when you agreed to use their services too. So I guess you are for more regulations on private companies? I thought deregulation was a good thing?

Catscratch- I get your point and understand why you don’t want a tax on gun ownership. I too hate that I’m taxed annually for the same property over and aver and over. As the national Debt climbs exponentially. Your point is well taken. I’m just not going to scream “they are coming for all your guns” when ideas are floated to stop gun violence.

From: Thornton
20-Jan-21
It's pointless to argue with a liberal. As mentioned before, a firearms tax isn't going to help anyone. In fact it would drive more acquisitions underground and is a means of punishing gun owners. Never mind the fact, if a nut job wants to kill large numbers of people, they'll find a way to do it like we saw in OKC, NYC, and Japan where a guy killed 19 and injured 26 more with a sword. The daily stabbings are so bad in the UK now, they have 'Knife Buybacks'. Even if they took the semi auto rifles, there are dozens of models that would never make the list. The 1873 Henry held 14 rounds and could be shot 1 per second by a slow shooter.

From: Copperhead
20-Jan-21

Copperhead's Link
The following is just a snippet of what Joe Biden wants.

"Hold adults accountable for giving minors access to firearms. Biden supports legislation holding adults criminally and civilly liable for directly or negligently giving a minor access to a firearm, regardless of whether the minor actually gains possession of the firearm.

Require gun owners to safely store their weapons. Biden will pass legislation requiring firearm owners to store weapons safely in their homes."

I don't know about the rest of you but I find this quite disturbing. Not wanting us to teach our kids how to shoot and legislating to us what we do in the privacy of our own homes. See the link to read the complete list.

From: Catscratch
20-Jan-21
In all fairness; in light of current magazine bans, states that don't allow constitutional carry, handgun registrations, the promise to punish gun owners financially, and a whole host of other restrictions.... maybe screaming "they are NOT coming for your guns" is not quite appropriate either.

You stated your stance on this is due to their inability to change the Constitution, but that doesn't hold water if they accomplish their objective via other means.

From: Koog
20-Jan-21
Your still not reading my post and missing what I'm trying to say. I'm talking about targeting people and using information traveling thru the internet to target people citizen or not. When I buy something with a credit card, no I don't give them permission to sale my transaction related data. When I'm asked by a store clerk for my phone number or my email address, no I don't want my purchase tracked, but it's what they do otherwise they would not ask for it. Catscratch my balls, for now on people on this site, we don't need to talk to this guy. Every time you see a post from him, don't read it instead, just move on. You are nobody to us, you have no reason to talk to us again. You dumb butt liberal, why waist our time reading bull crap you spout.

From: be still
20-Jan-21
Whoa Kooger....you need to slow down and retract your claws. I think you got Catscratch confused with somebody else. He’s a very good man and an educated one at that. Now me I’m not a very learned man so I appreciate his posts and love to hear what he and everybody else on here has to say...that includes you too.

From: Koog
20-Jan-21
I was just trying to get my point across to him. There was no real attack, I just wanted to show him, in a mini version, what being attacked feels like. We are all like minded people with a similar interest. I've already posted a simple explanation to Catscratch in a PM. I won't back down from my point though, there are groups out there with enough power to evaluate your posts and what you purchase alone to categorize and attack or shutdown you. There are ways to connect the links on this site alone with other sites and on and on. Never believe you are anonymous. I develop software and have done so for many years, I know what is possible and if it's possible some one will do it.

From: Koog
20-Jan-21
Anyway, my posts have been all in response to NCK who started this thread. He is absolutely correct. Then I got onto a response someone made about being anonymous. But I have no issues with Catscratch, except he thinks he's liberal. My point, the same as NCK's, we are not anonymous and there is code out there evaluating us, you could call it AI (artificial intelligence) if you'd like.

From: Catscratch
20-Jan-21
I'm confused. I'm fairly right of center, far from being a liberal. Every one of my posts on here has been against gun control in any manner, and I agree whole heartily that social media has too much power to manipulate. How does this make me a liberal? Unless you (Koog) are still making some sort of point that anyone can say anything.

From: writer
20-Jan-21
"trying to get my point across to him," that can be done in a civil manor. Goodness knows I've tried it both ways, and civility works best.

Proudly married to a liberal for 40 years, who has more intelligence, compassion and dedication to helping the country than anybody on the page. Assuming every liberal, moderate or conservative is the same is ridiculous. No, she doesn't want to give up the .38 she'll use to defend herself or our home. She can quote the stats on how few rifles (less than 300 annually) are used in murders in the U.S. as well as the NRA.

From: KSflatlander
20-Jan-21
Hey hey...I’m the liberal lol.

From: Catscratch
20-Jan-21
"Hey hey...I’m the liberal lol." Lol, I certainly aren't trying to steal that title from you. If fact the only reason I posted on this thread was to argue (or debate for maybe a better word) with you and your stance on gun control. The real funny thing is I knew good and well that I wasn't going to change your mind. Don't honestly know why I posted... lot of good it did.

From: Kansan
20-Jan-21
Ryan, you seem to be quite reasonable for a lefty. I didn’t intend to be an ass, even though I may have come across that way. It’s just that I’m very passionate about defending the second amendment. It’s the most important political issue to me. Without it, IMO, all other constitutional rights are moot. The founders thought it was so important that it was #2 on “the list”, just behind free speech. It isn’t about hunting. It’s about our right as Americans to defend ourselves from any threat that we may face, foreign or domestic. Right now, the focus is on “assault weapons” I.e. semi automatic firearms, “high capacity magazines”, and specific rounds of ammunition. I own several AR-15’s, not to shoot up school children, but to defend “me and mine”. Anything that restricts that (which the new administration intends to do) is prohibiting me from exercising my constitutional right to defend myself effectively. Of course I agree that any shooting of innocent people, especially children, is an abhorrent tragedy. But after semi automatic magazine fed rifles are banned, what will happen when they come after shotguns (which are far more effective inside of a building than a rifle) to save “just one child”? How far do we take this? We can look to countries across the globe to see where this path leads us. Now that there are very few guns in Europe, they’re having mass stabbings, and are introducing restrictions on knives. The fact is that the 2nd amendment is absolute, and “shall not be infringed”. Any gun control chips away at that right, primarily affecting law abiding citizens. It’s something that I just won’t bend on. The first thing totalitarian regimes do is seize firearms, because guns = power. That’s my take, and why I get so hot and bothered about the subject. I don’t wish to argue with you, I just want you to get a sense of where I’m coming from. It would appear that you’re willing to listen and have an adult discussion about “the issues”, which is a rarity in our current political climate, and I commend you for it.

From: KSflatlander
20-Jan-21
I may not totally agree with you but I understand where you are coming from. That’s good, right?

From: crestedbutte
20-Jan-21
This platform has about the same chance as using Facebook or any other social media platform to change someone's beliefs or party affiliation....a BIG FAT 0% chance and total waste of time to try. However, for those of you with the time to waste....I bid you good luck and adieu!

From: Slate
20-Jan-21
Is it November 2021 yet

From: Quailhunter
20-Jan-21
Gonna be a long year.

From: KSflatlander
21-Jan-21
I just finished watching The Social Dilemma. All I can say is THANK YOU NKC. What an eye opener. I’m so thankful I never participated in those platforms. I see it clearly now that the division in our country has a lot to do with social media.

Apologies for hijacking this thread earlier.

Great documentary and everyone should watch it.

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