Summit Treestands
COVID 19 - Part 11
Kansas
Contributors to this thread:
crestedbutte 27-Jan-21
Thornton 27-Jan-21
writer 27-Jan-21
Quailhunter 27-Jan-21
Thornton 28-Jan-21
Thornton 28-Jan-21
Thornton 28-Jan-21
writer 28-Jan-21
KsRancher 28-Jan-21
NCK 28-Jan-21
Thornton 28-Jan-21
Habitat 29-Jan-21
ksq232 29-Jan-21
keepemsharp 29-Jan-21
writer 31-Jan-21
writer 31-Jan-21
Thornton 31-Jan-21
Slate 31-Jan-21
writer 31-Jan-21
Thornton 31-Jan-21
Matte 01-Feb-21
writer 01-Feb-21
writer 01-Feb-21
crestedbutte 01-Feb-21
Thornton 01-Feb-21
writer 01-Feb-21
Thornton 03-Feb-21
sun 03-Feb-21
Thornton 04-Feb-21
Shawn 04-Feb-21
Thornton 04-Feb-21
cherney12 04-Feb-21
Thornton 04-Feb-21
Scooby-doo 04-Feb-21
Cracken74 04-Feb-21
Ironbow-cell 04-Feb-21
Thornton 04-Feb-21
cherney12 05-Feb-21
Thornton 05-Feb-21
cherney12 05-Feb-21
Thornton 05-Feb-21
cherney12 05-Feb-21
ksq232 06-Feb-21
Scooby-doo 07-Feb-21
Thornton 07-Feb-21
Thornton 07-Feb-21
Thornton 07-Feb-21
TreeHugger 07-Feb-21
writer 08-Feb-21
writer 08-Feb-21
Thornton 08-Feb-21
Thornton 08-Feb-21
TreeHugger 08-Feb-21
Thornton 08-Feb-21
TreeHugger 08-Feb-21
Thornton 08-Feb-21
TreeHugger 08-Feb-21
drbonner 08-Feb-21
TwoDogs@work 09-Feb-21
Thornton 09-Feb-21
crestedbutte 09-Feb-21
KsRancher 13-Feb-21
writer 14-Feb-21
KsRancher 14-Feb-21
writer 14-Feb-21
writer 14-Feb-21
Thornton 14-Feb-21
writer 14-Feb-21
writer 14-Feb-21
NCK 14-Feb-21
One Arrow 15-Feb-21
writer 15-Feb-21
NCK 15-Feb-21
One Arrow 15-Feb-21
cherney12 15-Feb-21
crestedbutte 15-Feb-21
cherney12 15-Feb-21
cherney12 15-Feb-21
NCK 15-Feb-21
cherney12 15-Feb-21
NCK 15-Feb-21
cherney12 15-Feb-21
NCK 15-Feb-21
ksq232 15-Feb-21
writer 15-Feb-21
sitO 15-Feb-21
NCK 15-Feb-21
Thornton 15-Feb-21
cherney12 15-Feb-21
NCK 15-Feb-21
writer 15-Feb-21
cherney12 15-Feb-21
writer 15-Feb-21
cherney12 15-Feb-21
One Arrow 15-Feb-21
NCK 15-Feb-21
NCK 15-Feb-21
cherney12 15-Feb-21
One Arrow 15-Feb-21
One Arrow 15-Feb-21
Thornton 15-Feb-21
cherney12 15-Feb-21
NCK 16-Feb-21
cherney12 16-Feb-21
Quailhunter 16-Feb-21
NCK 16-Feb-21
One Arrow 17-Feb-21
Thornton 17-Feb-21
writer 17-Feb-21
writer 17-Feb-21
TwoDogs@work 17-Feb-21
NCK 17-Feb-21
writer 18-Feb-21
GHuggs 18-Feb-21
NCK 18-Feb-21
keepemsharp 18-Feb-21
writer 18-Feb-21
NCK 18-Feb-21
Antlerhog 18-Feb-21
Thornton 19-Feb-21
writer 19-Feb-21
TwoDogs@work 19-Feb-21
writer 19-Feb-21
Thornton 19-Feb-21
Thornton 19-Feb-21
ksq232 19-Feb-21
From: crestedbutte
27-Jan-21

crestedbutte's embedded Photo
crestedbutte's embedded Photo
Not looking good folks. No doubt the fall out from holiday (Dec. 2020) get togethers and such. Smarten up and be safe!

From: Thornton
27-Jan-21
Pretty deadly on the vaccines as well. Lots of geriatrics dying after the injection. We had one in bad shape yesterday after the vaccine and a very young screener went home sick with chest pain and fatigue on day 2 of her vaccine.

From: writer
27-Jan-21
Define “lots” compared to how many get vaccinated daily?

Had at least 16 family and friends already vaccinated...not a problem. Heard of a Kansas woman who lost her husband and son within a month from Covid.

From: Quailhunter
27-Jan-21
Yea I googled covid vaccine deaths. Having trouble finding “lots”

From: Thornton
28-Jan-21

Thornton's embedded Photo
Thornton's embedded Photo
Maybe I shouldn't have said "a lot" but a few is too many. Very few patients have died in the ER I work in the 3 years I've been in Wichita. I see up to 240 patients a month, not counting the team oriented cases I participate in. Quite a few have died after they left our care and were moved to ICU, OR, or level 1 Trauma. Yesterday we had a septic patient brought to us from a nursing home with a blood pressure of 40/20. When I left, we had placed 3 IVs with Levofed and 2 liters of fluid going and a BP of over 100 systolic. The point is, for a vaccine to kill someone, something has to be very, very wrong. The Norway cases were attributed to elderly, immunocompromised patients with many preexisting conditions and they couldn't handle the vaccine. After all, it does cause an inflammatory immune response in most people. Another review suggested they died from anaphylactic reactions. I'll never get the vaccine, but many of my coworkers have. They've reported everything from no symptoms, to general fatigue, to that girl I mentioned earlier with chest pain. I had a female nurse put her on telemetry and take a set of vitals. She was fine with no arrhythmia.

From: Thornton
28-Jan-21

Thornton's embedded Photo
Thornton's embedded Photo

From: Thornton
28-Jan-21

Thornton's embedded Photo
Thornton's embedded Photo
From the CDC website:

From: writer
28-Jan-21
All vaccinations, or meds for that matter, have possible side-effects. Crested's post more than counters anything else as per vaccinations.

All the healthcare workers in our family and circle of friends (except Jason) will get, or have been, vaccinated. Sure seems like some most have developed some sort of "immunity"having been around it so much, though.

What are we up to now,...a million per day in the U.S?

Still amazingly unorganized, it seems.

I'm guessing it'll be late spring, at the earliest for me. At least I don't have to worry as much about as bringing it home to my wife.

From: KsRancher
28-Jan-21
My wife got her 1st shot 2 weeks ago. Nothing but the usual sore arm like after any shot. Looking like my turn wont get here till summer.

From: NCK
28-Jan-21
Here let me add some drama

From: Thornton
28-Jan-21
So, you're saying Benjamin Franklin PhD is saying I'm right..?!? God forbid the only healthcare worker on the KS forum has more experience with this than some of the folks with 4,000 friends on Facebook.

From: Habitat
29-Jan-21
I got my first last week and arm was a little sore but my sinus congestion was crazy for a few hours then went away get second shot the 19th

From: ksq232
29-Jan-21
My wife is a nurse and she has not made up her mind about the shot. I've had the opportunity to take it too, being a volunteer firefighter; but I decided to hold off as well. We just don't feel comfortable with no long term testing. My folks on the other hand, will take their first shot today. My mom said laughing, that they aren't too worried about longterm affects.

29-Jan-21
Robin received hers yesterday, the dentist wants all the employees to have one. So far, just a little sore in the arm but no other effects. I will get mine as soon as allowed.

From: keepemsharp
29-Jan-21
If you are worried about a sore arm take it in the but? Some advice from my 84 yr old sister.

From: writer
31-Jan-21
My friend’s daughter is on her 85th day past diagnosis, and still has daily fever, brain fog, exhaustion, accelerated heart rate, severe headaches...

From: writer
31-Jan-21
My friend’s daughter is on her 85th day past diagnosis, and still has daily fever, brain fog, exhaustion, accelerated heart rate, severe headaches...

From: Thornton
31-Jan-21
When was she seen last by a doctor? Just wondering because she meets sepsis criteria with the fever and tachycardia. Be interesting to know the actual fever and heart rate and if this is a new finding?

From: Slate
31-Jan-21
Got my 2nd vaccine shot today. All good so far.

From: writer
31-Jan-21
Seen by a dr,. don’t know, but she said she’s been in steady contact. She’s a solid “kid,” (40ish) can’t imagine she’d let things go.

Is it possible for covid to come in , knock the crap out of her immune system and other things settle in?

From: Thornton
31-Jan-21
It is very possible Writer. My only patient is a late 60's that tested positive in Nov. Patient is now back, is septic, and has similar symptoms as he had in November and his covid test is still positive. We see people of all age groups come in with various complaints that probably wouldn't have lasted till morning.

From: Matte
01-Feb-21
I still get daily head aches and weak smell and taste. My appetite came back as I lost 20 pounds in a three week about. However I still seem to be losing weight. That really scares me as I could go on a 10 day Elk hunt and never drop a pound. I'm guessing it's mostly muscle as going from 100% lumberjack to couch potato is something new. Have a doctor's visit this week on energy and lung health and plan to ask for physical therapy plan.

From: writer
01-Feb-21
Matt- just read an article that said 95-percent eventually get their smell and taste back, but it’s taken some up to six months.

Keep in mind you’ve entered an age where you’re going to slip out of shape more easily, yet it takes longer to regain it.

Glad you’re heading back to the Doc. A good PT can be your biggest ally in healing, which you already know.

See the final number of Covid deaths for January has been put at 93,000.

From: writer
01-Feb-21
Matt- just read an article that said 95-percent eventually get their smell and taste back, but it’s taken some up to six months.

Keep in mind you’ve entered an age where you’re going to slip out of shape more easily, yet it takes longer to regain it.

Glad you’re heading back to the Doc. A good PT can be your biggest ally in healing, which you already know.

See the final number of Covid deaths for January has been put at 93,000.

From: crestedbutte
01-Feb-21
Michael Two-Time....because he posts twice every time, HA!

From: Thornton
01-Feb-21

Thornton's embedded Photo
Thornton's embedded Photo
Another one that popped up on my news feed. Also heard theres a RN in MICU that had covid, and got vaccinated after he got well. He hasn't been back to work in a month after the vaccine, because it made him sick again.

From: writer
01-Feb-21

Another friend lost her father today, in Georgia. Whew, good thing he wasn’t vaccinated. he might have gotten sick?!

From: Thornton
03-Feb-21
I'm throwing out there the possibilities Writer. One year that I worked ER, I kept track of the vaccinated influenza patients that showed up in ER and met sepsis criteria. Most were vaccinated. In the last ten years, the influenza vaccine has been between 29% and 60% effective. My opinion of viral vaccines is a bit skeptical due to this. The covid vaccine will probably help many, but there will be a few who it doesn't and I believe the info out there is not straightforward about this. I'm not an anti vaxxer at all, but I do think viral vaccines are a shot in the dark, and often a waste of resources due to high mutation rates. Everyone should understand the risks and potential benefits. I know for a fact, patients with autoimmune disorders often get a bad flare up after these vaccines.

From: sun
03-Feb-21
So far, everyone I know who has caught Covid has missed at least 3 weeks work. And 2 are dead. So far no one I know who has gotten the vaccine has missed any work, and no one has died from it either.

From: Thornton
04-Feb-21
Sun- Many of my coworkers and myself have gotten the various strains of covid from GI to respiratory and nobody has died. I heard of one respiratory therapist that was hospitalized but returned to work. Over three thousand of us in the Wichita hospital system I work for.

From: Shawn
04-Feb-21
Thornton sorry but that's flat out BS!! I work in a nursing home and our health network has thousands of nursing home residents. In my own building we had 156 residents vaccinated, with both injections. We had no one get sick not one. We also have several other nursing homes in the are and I believe 3 residents had some mild reactions. Do your research, it is pretty much as safe a a flu vaccine!! Shawn

From: Thornton
04-Feb-21

Thornton's embedded Photo
Thornton's embedded Photo
As for for influenza, the numbers dont lie Shawn. In a year, we'll know how effective the covid vaccine is. Until then, spouting it works 100% is complete nonsense, and can most likely be attributed to infection control measures.

From: cherney12
04-Feb-21
Infection control measures that were put in place in January? Which would those be????

From: Thornton
04-Feb-21
Not sure what you're interjecting about Chern. Shawn is boasting no covid infections since the vaccine. I informed him infection control procedures are probably the reason why there are no new infections. In one year, we will know some numbers on the vaccine efficacy. Right now, nursing homes are taking great precautions of keeping the virus out. They are shutting down commons areas, taking temps at the door, masking, and not allowing visitors. Some are nota allowing residents out of their rooms for most of the day.

From: Scooby-doo
04-Feb-21
No not touting no infections since the vaccine, I am saying the shot itself was not making people sick as you implied!! Never once did I mention its effectiveness. I called BS on you saying the injections were making a lot of people sick and thats just not true!! Shawn

From: Cracken74
04-Feb-21
Lost a hunting role model on Monday to Covid complications. Always called him uncle and he was always there to help me out when my dad couldn't. He dragged my first deer out of the middle of the river for me. He well be greatly missed!

From: Ironbow-cell
04-Feb-21
I have a friend that is a nurse in Reno county. Four of her colleagues had bad reactions to the first shot and one went into seizures and had to be hospitalized. So people do get sick from it.

From: Thornton
04-Feb-21
Scoob- You're a maintenance man, not a healthcare worker. The simple act of a nurse giving you any kind of health info could get them fired. Anything you post is hearsay, nothing more. When I'm mowing or landscaping my nursing home contract, I don't know a thing about the resident's health history, nor do I know their treatments or outcomes.

From: cherney12
05-Feb-21
Aren’t you an ER nurse? Or you working in a nursing home now?

From: Thornton
05-Feb-21
I swear I have to explain everything to you Chern. I work ER full time. I also run a lawn and landscape business on my 4 days off in the summer and one of my contracts is a nursing home. I was trying to relate to Scoob, who is a maintenance guy at a nursing home.

From: cherney12
05-Feb-21
Sorry, I'm slow. Not my fault I was born dumb and received a subpar education. Just trying to keep up and failing.

Thornton who doesn't work in a nursing home: "Right now, nursing homes are taking great precautions of keeping the virus out. They are shutting down commons areas, taking temps at the door, masking, and not allowing visitors. Some are nota allowing residents out of their rooms for most of the day."

Also Thornton telling Shawn he isn't qualified to comment on issues relating to a place he doesn't work: "Scoob- You're a maintenance man, not a healthcare worker. The simple act of a nurse giving you any kind of health info could get them fired. Anything you post is hearsay, nothing more."

05-Feb-21
I have a friend in a nursing home in Pleasanton. No visitors allowed, sounds like they are in lock down. And the nurses never give me any info when I call because he doesn’t answer his phone. Don’t think they are allowed per federal law, hippa or something.

From: Thornton
05-Feb-21
Cherney- I take reports from half a dozen different nursing homes weekly on patients they are sending to ER to be treated. After we figure out what is wrong with the patient, I call them back with the plan of care. Part of my prerequisites was to spend several weeks in the nursing home setting at the VA and a home in Whitewater. Non healthcare personnel do not have access to medical records or any form of treatment plan. A facility who knowingly gave access to someone not directly involved with the pt's care could be sued for a HIPAA violation. I have also worked as a contractor for a nursing home for over ten years. Any work orders are given to me by the maintenance director. My good friend and hunting partner, Shane (KShusker) owns a nursing home in Topeka and we have spoken frequently about day to day operations and covid precautions. I'm glad we could clear up my knowledge of nursing homes.

From: cherney12
05-Feb-21
Cool

06-Feb-21
Just talked to my friend...14 residents, 6 contracted COVID, 1 died this year so far. Staff also contracted it, did not know the number but one is hospitalized. Dave is 89, fighting it right now, was improving until today. I hope that is not what prompted his call. Says it is bad but has affected everyone differentl.

Thanks again to all on the front lines!

From: ksq232
06-Feb-21

ksq232's embedded Photo
ksq232's embedded Photo
Just want to give everyone a glimmer of hope in the middle of all this craziness. Help is on the way, behold our new secretary of health!!

From: Scooby-doo
07-Feb-21
Sorry Thornton I have an IQ of over 14 which doesn't really matter (just making a point) as it does not take a rocket scientist to see you talk out your A$$. I actually could have an IQ of 86 and see that!! You ever wonder why so many people take issue with your statements, or maybe you don't even realize the gruel that comes from your mouth!! Shawn

From: Thornton
07-Feb-21
I never would have guessed you are smart Scoob. Thanks for clearing that up. In the meantime, I'll keep treating patients.

From: Thornton
07-Feb-21

Thornton's embedded Photo
Thornton's embedded Photo

From: Thornton
07-Feb-21

Thornton's embedded Photo
Thornton's embedded Photo
The 23% of us healthcare workers that are declining the vaccination are skeptical because we've witnessed first hand the fail rate of the influenza vaccine.

From: TreeHugger
07-Feb-21
Thornton, are the 23% of healthcare workers reluctant to take any COVID vaccine or do they feel like one is worse than the other? My sons are first responders/firefighters and they both got vaccinated with the moderna vaccine. They both just had mild symptoms. I never get flu shots and I'm not in any hurry to get a COVID vaccine. I've been working the whole time. I don't have any health issues. Several people that I work with have gotten it as well as my granddaughter who I played with for 2-3 hours on the day she tested positive. I never got it that I know of. I self quarantined 14 days after and tested negative. Weird how some people get it and some don't. I had a 28 year old neighbor who recently died from it.

From: writer
08-Feb-21
Sorry to hear about your neighbor, Treehugger. By now most of us know someone who's died, or at least has been struggling with serious health issues. Don't know how many strains of flu I've gone through in my years but none whacked the American population like Covid.

Some of the stats and stories our daughter shares with us are pretty sad and alarming. She's a health care worker in So Cal, but has great professional contacts, and sometimes education, across the country, including three of America's best medical centers.

08-Feb-21
Mike,

Reading the latest, this may be with us permanently and we might need to have vaccine shots annually like the flu. If this is correct, re-opening the economy might happen sooner rather than later?

From: writer
08-Feb-21
Don’t know, Frank, I’m not the guy with all of the answers.

Plenty of foreign countries have no plans to open their borders. Seems that would hurt the economy.

From: Thornton
08-Feb-21
I can't speak for anyone else, but mistrust, and understanding the inaccuracy of a viral vaccine may play a part in it. I haven't known anyone personally that has died from Covid, but Writer has over 3,000 Facebook friends, so he knows a lot more people than I do. I've not had a single covid patient die in ER, but a few came in gasping like fish and were transferred to the covid unit. The two or three I personally took care of that died later had serious medical issues already

From: Thornton
08-Feb-21
We'll know in a year the actual efficacy of the vaccine on the CDC website. I'll also be keeping track of the number of patients I see in ER that have been vaccinated.

From: TreeHugger
08-Feb-21
Yeah, with viruses the vaccine may only be good for a known strain. Like flu vaccines are usually for a strain that was deadly the previous year. That old strain may have mutated to a different strain that has adapted. The old strain may still be present along with the new, but the new strain may not be covered by the vaccine. I've heard that the original strain of COVID-19 in the US has become less deadly to prevent killing the host, so that it can spread more easily. Seems to me that Hydroxychloroquine and zinc would be more effective since it prevents the virus from replicating itself once inside your body, giving your immune system a chance to fight it off.

From: Thornton
08-Feb-21
Last I heard, hydroxychoroquin is no longer recommended. Several drugs out there showing promise, including one from Israel: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/02/05/new-israeli-covid-drug-cured-30-cases-disease-hailed-scientists/

The doctors using Ivermectin are getting good results but it is being frowned upon in general by most of the medical community do to lack of clinical trials. Funny how money dictates what doctors prescribe. $20 for a dose of Ivermectin with no side effects but $3200 for a dose of Remsdivir with possible liver damage.

From: TreeHugger
08-Feb-21
I've read that the study used to illegitmize Hydroxychloroquine was extremely high doses that are not safe. They say extremely high doses of anything will cause heart arrhythmia. Ivermectin is what my brother the equine vet said to use when all this started, lol.

From: Thornton
08-Feb-21
The vet I'm buying my new farm from said there is a med that uses prostaglandin to treat bad joints in aging dogs has been found to successfully treat breast cancer in humans. He said he has not seen it used yet in humans due to the whole lack of clinical trials.

From: TreeHugger
08-Feb-21
Yes, it should be tested. Seems like most of the time when I ask him if I can just give my dog a human remedy, he says it doesn't work the same for dogs.

From: drbonner
08-Feb-21
Thornton, prostaglandin is the drug was the drug used on my son in the nicu. It was used to keep his ductal arteriosis in the paten/open position. He was born with ventricular septal defects among other heart issues (coarctation). They gave him the drug til his surgery. Interesting that a female hormone would be used for dog joints

From: TwoDogs@work
09-Feb-21
A 80+ year old lady that I know who had covid 3 months ago that was diagnosed with a test came down with a cold about 3 weeks ago. She went to the doctor yesterday because it was hanging on. She was told that she had a different milder strain of covid. The doctor said a test would not do any good because of the time since she had come done with the cold. I have no idea why or how the doctor decided it was covid. This sounds a little strange as it is the time of year to catch the common cold.

From: Thornton
09-Feb-21

Thornton's embedded Photo
Thornton's embedded Photo
He probably meant Coronavirus

From: crestedbutte
09-Feb-21
It has been 5 min....now there are 8 known strains.

From: KsRancher
13-Feb-21
My wife got her 2nd shot on Thursday. No symptoms with first one, other than a sore arm. Second one was a little different. Just a sore arm the day of shot. Woke up the next morning with a 101 degree fever. She felt REALLY rough all day at work. Came home and went to bed. She woke up at 8:30 that evening SOAKED in sweat. (Like change the whole bedding wet) But felt better. All good today. But she still is happy she got it.

From: writer
14-Feb-21
About one in three we know with the moderna vaccine react like that to the second shot.

From: KsRancher
14-Feb-21
Yep, she got moderna. At the rate vaccination is going in our county and the amount of people that dont want it. I think I will be up for mine in April.

From: writer
14-Feb-21
Been a long time since I’ve heard, “...sorry, you’re not old enough” nearly this much.

From: writer
14-Feb-21
Been a long time since I’ve heard, “...sorry, you’re not old enough” nearly this much.

From: Thornton
14-Feb-21

Thornton's embedded Photo
Thornton's embedded Photo
Article said they got it over 14 days after the vaccine-well after the incubation period.

From: writer
14-Feb-21
yawn

From: writer
14-Feb-21
Meanwhile, another interesting number is 1.49 million — number of Americans vaccinated DAILY!!

From: NCK
14-Feb-21
Meh.......Yawn.....

15-Feb-21
Glad to see they are starting to re-open schools nationwide. If this virus is here to stay because of the mutations, I don’t understand the push to remain closed unless they think it will slow down the mutations?

From: One Arrow
15-Feb-21
Meanwhile, in Poland where half my family lives, less than 4% of the population has received any shots.

My in-laws, both in their 70’s and one who is battling cancer, still has no definitive date for the first shot... maybe late June.

From: writer
15-Feb-21
Frank, closures slow the spread and may let vaccinations catch up. Still, we have to have a balance...which is something our nations struggles with. Our children NEED that classroom time and experience. Our grandkids 2-4 go to assorted school-like childcare, wear masks throughout and have a great time. It's obvious they need that social time.

Hope your in-laws come out healthy, Ray. We had a very close friend who was 80, just coming off aggressive pancreatic chemo contract Covid. She had some of the mildest symptoms of those we've known with it. Heard of several others in our big circle battling cancer who've gotten sick, but came out ok in the end.

From: NCK
15-Feb-21
"As of Monday morning, the novel coronavirus has infected more than 108,840,449 people across 192 countries and territories, resulting in at least 2,400,456 deaths. In the U.S., all 50 states plus the District of Columbia have reported confirmed cases of COVID-19, tallying more than 27,640,292 illnesses and at least 485,336 deaths."

So world wide a death rate of 2.2% and in the US 1.75% so basically a 98% chance your going to be just fine. This is starting to look a lot like the Flu:^)

Info from the beloved World Health Organization (WHO)

"To assess the overall influenza burden relative to other diseases associated with respiratory mortality, we explored the contribution of influenza-associated deaths to total respiratory deaths in our global sample. Overall, influenza-associated deaths represented a median 2.8% (IQR?=?1.9-4.2%) of total respiratory deaths in people <65 and 1.8% (IQR?=?2.8-4.1%) in those ?65 years (Figure 5). The proportion of respiratory deaths attributable to influenza varied substantially between countries; however, these differences did not align with the socio-economic or health care indicators considered in this study. Estimates of the proportion of respiratory deaths due to influenza were consistent in Stage 1 (Figure S4 in the Online Supplementary Document) and Stage 2 data sets."

From: One Arrow
15-Feb-21
It’s roughly a 2.5% death rate in Poland... which amazes me that it’s not much higher. They literally live on top of each other over there. The virus is very real, but the political motivations to scare people is becoming more obvious in my opinion. The long-term complications are something I worry about. My in-laws laugh at the way the American media reports how things are going in Europe.

No real way to quarantine for long periods of time due to shortage of ample room to store large quantities of food. My in-laws live on the 5th floor of an apartment building (no elevator), have to go to the grocery store at least once a week. When we were there we shopped for food/groceries every day. No car, so walk everywhere or take a bus or train... the majority seem to still walk everywhere in her hometown. They are in constant contact with people and exposed all the time.

Thanks Mike, I pray they come through this... as you are probably aware our family is pretty tight. My wife having not been able to see her parents, due to travel restrictions, is really bothering her. They were supposed to have been here last summer. We were hoping this summer, but it’s not looking good. We are hoping they can make one more trip to America in their life... we’ve planned a summer vacation to visit a lot of parks that I know they would appreciate.

As for school, this is the thing that has probably ticked me off more than anything. Some kids NEED school. Mine will be fine, but you’d be surprised at the number of kids out there that depend on school for warm meals, emotional needs, and mental stimulation. I’ve been out for a few years now, but I can still see the faces of some kids who I know have not been fed properly and likely are being physically and emotionally abused even more so during this time. Distance learning isn’t cutting it. I’ve got a lot of problems with public education that I won’t go into here, but this has been a disaster and the fact more educators (I know some are) are not speaking out against closures is both heart wrenching and speaks volumes. There should be an outcry from the public and BLM to defund teacher unions.

From: cherney12
15-Feb-21
Keep trying Tom. Maybe someday...

From: crestedbutte
15-Feb-21
My mother-in-law received both of her Moderna Covid vaccine shots. A lot of people report flu like symptoms after the 2nd shot. She has had no side effects what so ever from either shot. So, there you go!

From: cherney12
15-Feb-21
My arm was sore and bruised after the first one. Felt hungover the next day. No big deal.

From: cherney12
15-Feb-21
My arm was sore and bruised after the first one. Felt hungover the next day. No big deal.

From: NCK
15-Feb-21
"Keep trying Tom. Maybe someday..."

What stating facts?

"My arm was sore and bruised after the first one."

Sounds like you needed the shot.......shouldn't the elderly and vulnerable get them first? I thought you were a younger lad with a junior detective badge?

From: cherney12
15-Feb-21
I was referring to trying to sound smart and trying to make sense. Yeah that's why they gave me the shot.....detectives have to work.

From: NCK
15-Feb-21
How old are you Pat? Why didn't you pass on the shot so the elderly and vulnerable could get it first? It kinda feels selfish to me:^)

From: cherney12
15-Feb-21
Detectives gotta detect, Tom.

From: NCK
15-Feb-21
Its always the guys that "care" the most that are willing to walk on top of the downtrodden to take care of themselves first:^)

From: ksq232
15-Feb-21
I guess my wife and I could say we were looking out for others by not taking the shots, we both could have had it weeks ago. But that would be a lie; we don’t want to take it. Maybe in a couple years, but right now? No way!

15-Feb-21
I am 62, but believe our younger adults should receive it first if we care about the future performance of our nation. Guys like me can stay home and isolate, or retire if financially set, if we are that worried about it.

I have an appointment with a needle tomorrow, but it is to give blood. A young father, an engineer like Patrick, married to a nurse, that family has a lot more future to offer than someone like me. Give him the shot I say.

From: writer
15-Feb-21
Matte— ever had the flu like this?

From: sitO
15-Feb-21
My Mom got her second shot Friday, had a bit of fatigue and a rash the next day but all good now, and Dad is scheduled for first shot this week. I don't think any of us here really have an idea what this virus, or the various strains, is capable of. I do find it VERY odd that there seems to be no "flu season" this year?

From NPR...yes NPR "During the 2019-2020 flu season, some 400,000 people were hospitalized for the flu, with 22,000 deaths, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Last week — just ahead of the season's usual peak — the CDC had recorded just 165 flu-related hospitalizations since October."

From: NCK
15-Feb-21
"Matte— ever had the flu like this?"

Many people die from the flu right? So is the Flu just as bad as Covid? Dead is dead right? Your being very emotional about this Michael. You cherry pick what you like. Many people with Covid get the sniffles or no symptoms at all. Some people with the flu say meh and others die.

"I am 62, but believe our younger adults should receive it first if we care about the future performance of our nation."

Absolutely goes counter to the CDC statistics. Young people have almost nothing to fear. Shots need to go to elderly or precondition folks.

So Sito your numbers form NPR(very reliable) show a 6% kill rate. I got to rethink this looks like the flu is far worse than Covid. 165 this year....LOL

From: Thornton
15-Feb-21
Yes he is. I got attacked every time I mentioned the Wichita area wasn't seeing Covid like the other parts of the country. For about 8 months, we were sending most positive patients home to quarantine. In my ER, I have not seen a covid patient in almost 2 weeks. Some of the other providers have, but it's way down. To add to your comment, we rarely swab for the flu anymore. To put an exact number on it, I've swabbed ONE Patient for influenza since the season started. Odd, isn't it?

From: cherney12
15-Feb-21
Is it odd? Maybe those mask things and staying away from people actually works?

Tom, come on dude. What is the deadliest seasonal influenza season on record? How does that compare to Covid? 22,000 vs 480,000 and counting? Maybe rethink again? :^)

Thornton - you work in the ER. Covid patients shouldn't be coming to the ER. We are almost a year into this deal. I'm glad the numbers are down. Maybe the vaccine is doing some good.

15-Feb-21

Habitat for Wildlife's Link
Tom,

See link. Numerous reports out there regarding youth at risk.

Patrick, I agree somewhat to what I have read, flu cases are down due to social distancing, better hygiene, schools closed, etc. I am in the camp that this is much worse than the flu, talk here focuses on the death rate but reports of long term, maybe permanent organ damage and other issues I am not aware of with the flu so much. Sad this still seems to be a political issue for many on both sides.

Honestly, none of us really know. We will have more knowledge after this all passes, or I should “if”.

From: NCK
15-Feb-21
"Is it odd? Maybe those mask things and staying away from people actually works?"

Why did Covid spread and the Flu didn't? Masks work for Flu but not Covid? Can't have it both ways Pat.

"Tom, come on dude. What is the deadliest seasonal influenza season on record? How does that compare to Covid? 22,000 vs 480,000 and counting? Maybe rethink again? :^)"

We are talking % of kill and according to the WHO and Sito's numbers looks like the Flu is the champ.

"See link. Numerous reports out there regarding youth at risk."

Many, many, many more will die in car accidents, drug overdoses, and suicide then Covid....its truly a none issue for youths.

From: writer
15-Feb-21
NCK ...several times I’ve mentioned the friend who’s 80, just came off an aggressive chemo and had the easiest time of any we know.

I asked Matte if it was like the flu. That’s a question for him to answer. He’s a helluva strong guy and it knocked him down. Some victims have been told they may never fully recover. Like the flu?

An acquaintance is 42 and a real bad ass for conditioning. He was in the hospital for weeks and has been told his days of backpack hunting may be over. His 70-something year old dad (a friend) got it and hardly missed a day of deer hunting.

Anybody heard from Bodyman? He promised it would be gone the day after the election.

Hard to decide who to listen to — so many experts on Bowsite or a family member (daughter) with time spent as staff at four of top 30 medical centers in America.

Frank this is a rare winter I haven’t had a respiratory infection, like bad bronchitis. Last year for a week, year before off and on for four months First Kathy or I can remember. Coincidence? I don’t think so but we’ll never know.

From: cherney12
15-Feb-21
Uhhh you took deaths divided by hospitalizations.... vs deaths divided by total confirmed cases. If you took Covid deaths divided by covid hospitalizations you'd get 27.8%.

15-Feb-21
We make efforts to prevent drug, suicide, etc. deaths, and we should do the same for COVID. It’s not a “non-issue” to anyone who has lost a family member to any of those tragedies, in fact most consider it more of a tragedy when it is a young person.

We will have to agree to disagree Tom, but we have done so respectfully. Thanks.

From: writer
15-Feb-21

writer's embedded Photo
writer's embedded Photo
Numbers vary as per deaths in crashes. Above is the smallest. Most were 34,000 to 38,000 for annual deaths from auto crashes.

450,000 vs. 38,000 auto deaths, that was easy

Most recent numbers , over-dose —- 70,000

Suicide — 50,000

Covid stress has certainly increased suicide and overdose totals.

Cherney, what’s your occupation?

From: cherney12
15-Feb-21
"Many people die from the flu right? So is the Flu just as bad as Covid? Dead is dead right? Your being very emotional about this Michael. You cherry pick what you like. Many people with Covid get the sniffles or no symptoms at all. Some people with the flu say meh and others die."

61,000 vs 470,000... dead is dead right? Your words yet here we are with you and several others still arguing that it's the same as the flu. Crazy to me. I'm sure you think it's still a ploy to get DJT. Nice of Europe and South America and all the other countries to join the conspiracy to undermine him.

From: One Arrow
15-Feb-21
Nonissue for youths? See my above comments. I worry more about the elementary kids because of closures than I do about the virus for my parents... which I hope they never get. Second shot for them coming in a couple weeks. What about millennials and other generations who have had their businesses completely shutdown due to Covid? Never to reopen. Mental health issues could be present for many years.

Not a huge Trump fan, but he did not overdramatize covid and wanted to find balance and keep the economy open. His mouth was the biggest issue. Funny how we should now be reopening businesses and schools... and the truth is coming out about Cuomo. I was horribly wrong about him. I’m back and forth on Fauci, but looking back at this past comments he caused a lot of drama.

The press, my opinion, caused more destruction than objectively informed.

My wife had a heart doctor appointment this past week at KU (almost lost her once and she goes back yearly) and her doctor said they have psychologists on stand-by to speak to people who are experiencing heart problems, not due to covid, but from anxiety from fear of covid. I’ve talked with multiple doctors locally, a lot of differing opinions, but most were in the herd exposure/immunity crowd.

The thing I’ve tried to step back and look at objectively is the way the press reports on this, especially after the election. Very interesting. Since about October, I’ve committed to watching/reading only left-leaning media. Headlines on several news outlets have changed their tone significantly... not since the election, but rather Inauguration Day.

I also believe we have all learned that Biden’s campaign was based off lies in regards to this virus. He’s a worse speaker than Trump and that’s saying something.

Don’t believe all the stories you hear coming out of Europe Cherney. They are as divided, if not more so, than we are in their response to Covid.

From: NCK
15-Feb-21

NCK's Link
"450,000 vs. 38,000 auto deaths, that was easy"

So you are telling me that 450k youth have died of Covid? Not even close. That was easy:^) Meh.....

"so many experts on Bowsite or a family member (daughter) with time spent as staff at four of top 30 medical centers in America."

Wow that is so cool....I yield the floor or in this case the site to your knowledge.

Cherney12 you still got DJT syndrome? Man in-case you didn't know he is out of office now. I have got to assume you are a Millennial. Once a Millennials feelings have been hurt or bruised there is no going back.

From: NCK
15-Feb-21
Not much different from the Flu if you ask me.......:^)

Enjoy your day guys Covid is right around the corner waiting for you;^) Jesus decided the day I was going to die before the day I was born so no worries here.

From: cherney12
15-Feb-21
That's true, Tom. He also gives you something called free will.... free will to not be ignorant. Have a good evening boss.

From: One Arrow
15-Feb-21
Jesus knows the day we are going to die.... how we respond to situations in our life directly affects what day that is.

From: One Arrow
15-Feb-21
DP

From: Thornton
15-Feb-21
Cherney-. Where else would a covid patient go besides ER? I'll wait for your ridiculous answers, then I'll tell you how a hospital system works.

From: cherney12
15-Feb-21
I was saying things should getting better. Lots of people have already had it and recovered and others are getting the vaccine... take a chill pill bro

From: NCK
16-Feb-21

NCK's Link
"Nonissue for youths? See my above comments. I worry more about the elementary kids because of closures than I do about the virus for my parents."

I made that statement based solely on the threat "COVID" poses to children. Which is almost non-existence. Look at the chart on this link from the beloved CDC.

Now to your point......how adults have approached this in relation to children is abominable. There are places where kids have not been allowed back to school since this time last year. Kids are being frightened out of there minds for absolutely nothing. Spending millions on plexiglass desks where students can't hear or see when all the "science" says its unnecessary. Suicide and Drug usage skyrocketing because "Adults" preach fear. Several here on this site keep that narrative alive and well. And if you say anything to the contrary they got story after story about Uncle Rick and his struggles. Fear mongering is all it is. Why do they feel the need to push that narrative as untrue as it is? Its why I stop by this tread from time to time to just pour water on them and watch them freak right out trying to prove how bad it is:^)

I do feel better that #12 got his shot. The people who need it the most are Millennials:^)

16-Feb-21
Tom,

Because others have different experiences than you have had, that doesn’t make them any less real.

You have not poured water as much as you have exposed some of your own biases, such as mocking millennials and their lack of toughness. Insults are not a sign of toughness IMHO, rather a lack of self awareness regarding one’s immaturity or know it all attitude.

I do agree there have been some questionable decisions on proper responses, in hindsight. But even today a consensus among the experts remains elusive. And I certainly discount what non-experts like we teachers, engineers, LEs, etc. think we should do. Honestly, we are just repeating what others have said, but repeating only what we agree with.

I am glad parents are pushing back now, they need to, unless the mutated versions become more deadly to kids. IMHO. Thanks.

From: cherney12
16-Feb-21
My kids have been going to daycare and school since this started. I'm very thankful for that, and I agree that the data showed early on that it doesn't affect children to near the degree that it does older people. I feel bad for the schools and the teachers because they had to listen to the bickering while getting conflicting messages from both sides and then trying to weigh the risk to their own health vs the risk to students not being in the classroom. Bad deal. Glad there is a vaccine and the numbers are trending in the right direction. Very thankful that it doesn't affect children very often. How much more terrible would that be???

From: Quailhunter
16-Feb-21
I teach high school and we have been in person all year. When a positive comes in they contact and identify level 2 exposures are out 10/14 days. It has been a fairly challenging year but it has worked. Has been pretty disruptive at times with chunks if students out but we have made it work. I am not aware of any “outbreaks” in our fairly large district. As I said not the ideal year but way better than I think any of us thought it would be back in August. A lot of our athletes and kids involved in activities have gone online to avoid being quarantined. Made it through our entire football season. Winter sports have been a little more challenging.

We’ve tried to accommodate the students as best we can and it’s gone okay.

From: NCK
16-Feb-21
"Because others have different experiences than you have had, that doesn’t make them any less real."

3 Elderly relatively close to me died of complications to Covid....they had other issues as well. Not going to use it as an Uncle Ray story. That's life people die.

"You have not poured water as much as you have exposed some of your own biases, such as mocking millennials"

I am a millennial......can I mock my peers? Its the land of Helicopter Mothers and Lawn Mower Dad's mowing any obstacles out of their little ones way:^)

Covid is as whisper in the wind compared to other events like WWII now that was hard times 60 to 75 million people died.

From: One Arrow
17-Feb-21
Covid has ruined snow days.

Thanks to the “Distance Learning” initiative from quarantine my kids are sitting in front of an iPad or computer all day. Mandatory or they will be counted absent. No coyote hunting, no shed hunting, no sledding, no building forts.

As a former educator I fume at the stupidity of all this, but yet I still respect the virus because it’s very real. That’s where 90% of the people are, I believe. Politically, there are extremes on both sides. But the extremes we have gone to are going to have negative consequences for generations.

Life will never be the same.

From: Thornton
17-Feb-21
Kids do very well with covid. I have had no pediatric covid patients since this all started last winter. I have a friend who is a former medical lab tech, turned elementary teacher and he has 3 kids. His wife has a doctorates in Pharmacy. From day one, they were both against school closing.

From: writer
17-Feb-21

writer's embedded Photo
writer's embedded Photo
Heck of a milestone of a whisper today. Comparing to WWII as a standard is ludicrous, even though we’ve lost more Americans to Covid than did to WW II.

Never heard anybody say this is the biggest disaster in history.

Agree about kids and school, always have. Maybe a month off to get organized, but some are now at a huge disadvantage.

Jason, the woman I shared about in Wichita is on Day 101 of fevers since diagnosis. Not non-stop, but daily. Other symptoms taste, smell, fatigue, brain fog...She’s finally had to send her special-needs kids off because she can’t care for them. Pretty dejected and fatalistic. Another appointment. with another Covid specialist in a few days.

All five in their house had it. Her husband struggled a bit but nothing like this.

From: writer
17-Feb-21

17-Feb-21
Mike,

Look at what Matte posted he is still dealing with. This ain’t the flu. Junior year of college I had a nasty flu. Three weeks later I posted one of my top three half mile times for our track team.

WW1, Dark Ages, Bubonic Plague... Could go on about all of the hard times mankind has faced. Just because one period is more difficult has never meant any of the others don’t deserve attention.

I know millennials who have fought as Special Forces, others who fight MMA. Broad brush stroking an entire generation makes no sense. Lots of pansy butt Baby Boomers, many who complain about our country and never had the back bone to wear a uniform. Same people egging everyone on at the Capitol while seated in their recliners watching their TVs. JMO of course.

From: TwoDogs@work
17-Feb-21
I got my first shot this morning. They told me that I am more likely to headache, nausea, body aches, fever, etc since I had the virus in November. Apparently, the body might remember the virus and attack the vaccination with more vigor. We will see if this occurs.

From: NCK
17-Feb-21
"Heck of a milestone of a whisper today."

For a fear monger yes:^) That number defiantly helps your cause. Still not as many as Cancer or Heart disease(maybe with luck Writer we will beat those deaths and you can say see I told you).......Never mind a good portion of the Covid deaths were from other things but since they died with Covid that was the cause. That stage 4 cancer no that was not it.

Definitely time to issue up a 1.9 trillion "relief" package because we just don't know enough about this beast yet and people are hurting out there. Maybe they are hurting because the government closed down their businesses and shut some schools down? But with 1.9 trillion we can build some plexiglass seating for the kids to get back to school for a tiny 5 million dollar investment. Then in 2 years we can throw all the plexiglass out back because it didn't stop Covid and neither did masks. Great Idea!!!!

Its bad out there folks....curl up in the fetal position soon that "relief" check will come:^)

From: writer
18-Feb-21
Preaching to the choir, Frank. As an educator you've had hundreds of millennials through your class rooms, all trying to better themselves. We had our house full of them, through high school, because we were "that" house. Most did well. The few who didn't, had crappy parenting. One, now 36, is still supported by her parents to the tune of $75,000 a year as she "tries to define herself."

Our two kids are the better than the generations before them, as it should be. Trebarker has shared enough on his daughters to think the same. It's the parenting, not the kids.

Some people keep trying to build themselves up by tearing others down. It actually does the opposite.

From: GHuggs
18-Feb-21

GHuggs's Link
“Never mind a good portion of the Covid deaths were from other things but since they died with Covid that was the cause. That stage 4 cancer no that was not it” If this were true, shouldn’t we have a small number of excess deaths in 2020? In reality, the US recorded just shy of 300,000 excess deaths through Oct 2020.

From: NCK
18-Feb-21
"a good portion"

Didn't say all of them huggs.......from your own link "Two thirds of excess deaths during the analysis period (66.2%; 198,081) were attributed to COVID-19 and the remaining third to other causes†† (Figure 1)."

Anyway its bad out there bring on the 1.9 TRILLION "relief" package so we can get better. Covid(the flu) will be a whisper in the wind compared to what is coming in the next 2 to 4 years financially. But you got constituents like the ones above telling everyone how bad it is who then press their politicians to "do" something about it and you get "relief"

I wonder why we never had a "relief" package for the 1.2 million people who die each year of Cancer and Heart issues?

From: keepemsharp
18-Feb-21
This crap about world wide numbers is just total crap. The Chicoms that leased this on the planet will never release what really happened in that country, the real numbers that happened in China, and anyone that believes that should run for Demo. president.

From: writer
18-Feb-21
Loss of cancer and heart patients , which is too high, doesn’t shut down the economy, cost people jobs and fail businesses that have been around for decades.

Those of us with jobs, keep on working even when diagnosed with cancer.

Agree on the numbers in China, Dave. How convenient their main whistle-blower Dr. suddenly died from it.

Best thing Trump did was scare the hell out of that country, the world’s biggest enemy.

From: NCK
18-Feb-21
"doesn’t shut down the economy, cost people jobs and fail businesses that have been around for decades"

And that right there is how fear mongers think. Nothing had to be shut down and we know that but people like you KEEP preaching fear and looking for the government to give "relief" and keep up the restrictions. You know at this point the death rate compared to what we are doing fiscally to ourselves is completely stupid but you stay the course. The proof is in FL vs. CA no difference in occurrence one open one shut down.

Maybe more research???

From: Antlerhog
18-Feb-21
While I don't agree with everything you are posting NCK arguing with writer is a complete waste of time. He has a god complex, nothing will change that.

From: Thornton
19-Feb-21
Yes, and no, Writer. Had a director take off for months when she went through chemo for breast cancer and another director used months of extended illness benefit and PTO after she had a heart attack. Like I've always said, Kansas never experienced what some other places did. Over 3,000 healthcare workers in my hospital system in Wichita alone and nobody died though a large number contracted the virus.

19-Feb-21

Habitat for Wildlife's Link
Hopefully this prediction will prove accurate!

From: writer
19-Feb-21
NCK - I wasn’t in favor of shutting down the economy. My point was Covid impacted everyone because the economy was shut down. Hence the $$$. You and I keep right on working when we get cancer or are treated for heart disease. We weren’t forced to shut down, hence no need for the aid...which I don’t totally approve of.

Just want the facts out by there, Hog. Tired of conspiracy theories. Jason and have have disagreed for years. He’s corrected me and I’ve corrected him. Both said, “thanks,” and moved on.

He’s been a go-to several times when I needed “Dr-speak” translated into English.

From: TwoDogs@work
19-Feb-21
Almost exactly 24 hours after my shot I suddenly just felt really crappy. Headache, chills, body aches and upset stomach. It lasted a couple of hours and with the help of some pain medicine it left. Not fun but a lot better than the virus. I am scheduled for my second shot on the 15th of March. I will see how that goes.

From: writer
19-Feb-21
Jason - you overlooked my question about the woman in 100-plus days of fever.

Any ideas?

19-Feb-21
Robin had her second yesterday, Pfizer, and no reaction yet after 24 hours.

From: Thornton
19-Feb-21
Writer- it's chronic inflammation due to damage done to the immune system. They will often test positive for weeks or months.

From: Thornton
19-Feb-21
I will add, I have seen intermittent shortness of breath and low grade temps several weeks after the infection. Anybody with an oxygen saturation lower than high 80's should be seen. We can give IV steroids to suppress the inflammation of the cytokine storm that caused irreparable lung and organ damage. Trying to tough it out may take years off your life in the long run.

From: ksq232
19-Feb-21
That’s good information to know Thornton, thanks.

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