Republicans combine crossbow and archery
Wisconsin
State Republicans want to combine bow and arrow with crossbow license in SB192.
As much as I hate to say it, the crossbow season will never be shortened or adjusted. So at this point of the game I really don't see a difference. Another sad day for Wisconsin bow and arrow hunters.
It may not pass as there is no need for it. But the big sticker may be the lost revenue for the DNR. Sure the 3.00 or whatever it is for the crossbow license is small. But multiply that statewide and it's a nice little revenue generator.
You expected something different from our politicians and unelected bureaucrats? I`m shocked I tell you, shocked.
Throw in the towel folks....the crossbow is here to stay and if anything the handheld bow is in more danger of being eliminated. Very little "user error" in a scoped crossbow. They want the deer dead, period....by any means necessary.
It may also further hinder the ability for DNR to collect accurate kill data between the 2 weapons. Thus eliminating a statistic that could be used to justify a shorter xgun season.
Same legislator who championed the original full inclusion bill, she just got re-married and change houses( Assembly to Senate). Make no mistake, this maneuver is being made to protect crossbows from a shortened season. They can say "blah, blah, blah" but their over harvest of bucks is making waves with the gun hunters. Their best protection is to quickly include them into the archery. Any other reason is for this bill is bs.
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Ironically, the Republicans are only hurting themselves in championing this bill. Are they going to talk about not enough deer , too many wolves, etc... then sign a bill protecting the single most effective weapon used for deer in the rut? Tree hugging Dems are going to want this bill and Evers will sign it even though he despises the Republicans. It serves his role in eliminating deer and hunters.
Heck, since Dems and Reps are all singing "kum ba yah" in destroying WI deer hunting, the republicans might as well invite PETA and HSUS to the party, their money is green too.
Funny thing is, these legislators have no idea of what they are talking about and the ramifications of their actions. I can only imagine the person in their ear on this. It really is a bill pretty impossible to defeat but it serves nobody other than nonhunters and those who are spiteful that had their butts handed to them the first xbow bill.
I'm not involved in this bout. My only recommendation to the Senators is not to go fishing. lol.
Bow and arrow hunting is becoming a thing of the past, that ship has sailed. Combining the licenses has no real impact on anything.
Makes very little difference if it's combined or not. It could be left separate as it is, even though as most people realized from day one it made no difference as the season was never going to be shortened, it does make some people happy as they wishfully think the season might be shortened which apparently quells their fear of someone shooting their buck before they can. If it's kept separate it also likely secures employment for a few folks at the DNR that track the numbers even though that also is a complete waste of time and resources.
I'm also surprised we keep reading the fictional tale that gun hunters are pissed about crossbow hunters shooting "their" deer or shooting "all" the deer, my experiences are opposite most gun hunters I've talked to either don't care one bit or more than I would have realized have started spending some time bowhunting deer with a crossbow themselves. It likely is well past the time of continuing to spread the rumor that there will be a war between gun deer hunters and crossbow deer hunters with the thought that the crossbow season will be shortened due to the impending revolt, as it hasn't happened yet and never will.
My honest opinion is that people need to face reality and deal with it, no one is going to run out of deer due to crossbow users, and the reality is that the DNR needs deer killed (something about treehumpinglove I hear.) IF you are having a deer shortage or your hunting sucks, you really need to point to the DNR and predators, and actually it's not the predators fault either the DNR should manage them instead of lie and mislead and protect their pets, so that finger needs to be pointed at the DNR only, who seem to be hell bent on chasing as many people away from the sport of hunting as they can.
There is no bow season anymore, it was destroyed and taken away. We now have a long gun season that you can use a bow to hunt if you want. It's all a joke anyway.
Hunter, you coming out of the closet? You’ve championed the crossbow from the beginning.
I am so tired of the anti crossbow groups, Deer seasons are to keep deer herds in check ! RIGHT? Whatever weapons used makes no difference to those in charge of the deer herd, RIGHT ? Those that hate xbows and their users, Grow up, Buy a bow, buy a crossbow, Join the fun, A LONGER SEASON MUCH NICER WEATHER, DEER ARE MOVE MUCH MORE NATURALLY THAN DURING THE WORLD WAR 2 STYLE RIFLE HUNT, ARCHERY CROSSBOW SEASONS ARE SO MUCH SAFER, I believe these hunts will be the future, Most areas will ban rifles because of human population encroachment, Get over it ! grow up, Move on, Enjoy more hunting opportunities !
Grouch, sounds like your opinion is the only one that matters. You come here screaming and tell people to grow up. Funny. I didn't know part of having a different opinion, was a need to grow up. Sounds like you have it all figured out. By the way, I would like to see you facts on the safety aspects of gun vs archery/ crossbow seasons , or is that just another one of "your" opinions.
We will see how long we continue to have the season length we do and how long before we need blaze orange during "bow season". Opportunists are happy, bowhunters are not. Opportunists way outnumber bowhunters which explains where were at. I agree it doesnt pay to worry about something that you cant change. Ive got a new stickbow coming shortly. Always fun getting a new bow and I cant wait to take it in the woods and forget about the s**t show Wisconsin has become......
May as well have one season, use whatever weapon you choose. As a poster above mentioned, "deer seasons are to keep the herd in check". I guess then there is no need for multiple seasons, let the gun hunters hunt the rut too. Others claim there are too many deer. Again, let the gun hunters hunt earlier, who cares?
More hunters are coming out of the closet, and bow and arrow hunting will continue to decline. This is what hunters want, and are clearly supporting.
Retro I'm with you. Going to be setting up my new Bear Super Kodiak with some woodies and bear razorheads (A big thank you to Casekiska) and still be a bowhunter. To bad you have to compete with gun hunters nowadays.
Those Kodiaks are good looking bows. I've been watching for some Razorheads but demand must be pretty strong for them as the prices are pretty high. I'll keep watching... Enjoy your new bow!
a closed mind is such a waste of brain matter,
Some hear evidently don't know what bowhunting really was.
Live2Hunt--and others--I picked up my first bow, a straight yew bow, about 5 1/2 feet long, about 40 lbs and a couple of cedar arrows in summer of 1966, I killed my first deer in 1968, I worked hard and purchased a new recurve in 1969, After a couple of recurves, one of which I still have in my man cave, I purchased my first compound bow, After a couple of upgrades to compounds, I had 2 major back surgeries, and a major shoulder surgery, I now can not hold up a bow for more than a second before it starts dropping down, So had to go to xbow and a stick, This set up keeps me hunting and is better than watching Ellen or Oprah ! I have been chasing deer for 54 years, Now you smug aholes, You tell me about hunting !! Oh yea, also black bear, caribou, Coyote, Various small game with bows !
Grouch, that was a great option to keep you hunting. You never would have lost that option and no one on hear would say anything or do anything to keep you from that. This isn't about ones like you, it is about able people who are now able to carry a gun during what was the bow season. If it was the 1970's again and they pushed this crap on you, I'm sure you would have felt the same as all of the rest of us bowhunters.
Lots of people on Bowsite probably have no idea that I use a crossbow. I severely tore up several muscles in my right side rotator cuff. That was 20+ years ago and never did get that shoulder to work properly. Rotator cuff repair techniques are way better now.
I pretty much got booted out of the local archery club because I had to use a crossbow. Could not use their range either. That sucked, I even had a lifetime membership that they did not even refund a pro rated part of the membership that I could no longer use. I would have even brought my own target and that was not allowed either. No matter I have plenty of room to practice at home.
The injury happened when I was loading a 55 gallon barrel of bear bait (fryer grease) and slipped on the ramp and landed under the dolly and bait barrel on top of me. Nobody around to help me so I tried to bench press it off of me. Didn't work and that was what tore the muscle. I just laid there for about an hour when a family member finally heard me. Back in my senior year of high school when I was doing power lifting I could have probably just bench pressed it off me.
Jeff, you're okay with me. There are parts of hunting I might not agree with, but I promise you this. I put the hunter himself, well before the technique. You are about to hear from others, that having an actual handicap allowed you the right to hunt with a crossbow anyway. Full inclusion of healthy people is what is pissing everyone off. Not many will dig deep however, and get honest why it bothers them so much. Truth be told, it's the idea, that another weapon, another method, will inevitably intervene the very liberal season we as bow hunters once had to ourselves.
Do I think full inclusion should be the case? No. That's not how I saw it, when it first came about, but I realized I was selfish, and I think most of us are. I'd hate for that weapon, and its lethality could change a season I once had. It will, and I'll have to adjust, and I'll be upset, but all in all, hunters still need to be united, because there's a much larger mass of people who don't differentiate a crossbow hunter from a compound bow hunter, to a gun hunter, to a traditional bow hunter, to a trapper, to a fisherman. We are scum of the earth to many, and just the same, crossbow hunters are scum of the earth to many vertical bow hunters, and it's rather hypocritical, and I'm guilty, as well as many others. I'm just willing to admit that selfishness is what causes this divide.
But.... Wait... We were explicitly told by many, including our fearless leaders that full inclusion would never happen when they were ramming this in just a few years ago. What a joke!
Crossbow use was initiated way back in the 60's! It was for those with physical disabilities unable to draw a traditional bow. I applaud that. What I don't applaud is this.....a hunter near my hunting area not only uses a crossbow but gets to shoot it out of a vehicle too. Has a car permit. So he drives out in the area we hunt. Idles the engine to keep warm. He does this muzzle and rifle season too. Has no problem playing pool at the local tavern, nor starting and getting involved in fights. I saw him carry a full heavy cooler of deer meat 50 yards without stopping and jumping out of car to run, yes run, to get ahead of our drives. Dick head yes. Playing the system? Yes. His brother is a doctor so easy peasy to get medical whatever he needs for his "disability" which is....wait for it....seriatic nerve pinch that flares up in his leg when he "exerts" himself. Ya right. BTW He is 33 years old and has a full time job as a banker. CROSSBOWS ONLY FOR 65+ OR A LEGITMATE DISABITY! Sorry for yelling. Argh
Jeff. As the archery club thing goes what did you expect? It's a archery club not a crossbow club they can make their own rules. You did not get kicked out your crossbow did you must get that huh? As far as your membership goes your welcome to go socialize attend the events and shoots and what not. Just leave the 30/30 ummmm crossgun home. And seriously how much practice do you really need with that thing? C'mon man what...a couple bolts a few times a year to check your scope? You have a legit disability use it but stop the poor me archery club thing. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it's probably a what? God bless you. And your archery club
So if you are concerned about the hunter playing the system with a disability permit, why not report it to the DNR and have them investigate. Additionally, if his brother is a doctor writing disability approval without verifiable testing, He is also in the wrong, and worst case scenario, potentially could lose his doctors license.
Of course it is selfish! That is the same selfishness that able bodied people who fight for crossbow use have. WTF? That does not take a genius to figure that out.
We thought of that oldhunter. First he is on private. Second well Third Fourth and Fifth the DNR Does not give a squat. They get his license money that's all they care about? Enforce laws....ba ha ha ha
Throw the traditional handheld bows under the crossbow train in the name of unity at all cost, not while I am still around.Live2hunt you said it best "Some hear[here] evidently don't know what bowhunting really was.." It was started by the likes of Pope and Young, Roy Case and others with a challenge and self-imposed restrictions on method of take. Thus the separate and longer season. Folks might think bowhunting has "evolved" the point a longer separate season is no longer needed or necessary. Well to that I say here we are on the brink of artificial meat being available and antis telling us humans have evolved to the point we don't need to hunt to survive. Well sorry but I do, just like the generations and generations before me. That hunting tradition included bowhunting, like 180,000 years worth. Crossbows maybe 1,000 years, firearms maybe 300-400 years. Something to think about.
I don’t understand why people are so anti xbow. This my opinion so don’t get on my ass, and I don’t use xbow. Yes, more bucks are being killed, but how many less deer are wounded or dead and not recovered from people switching from a bow? Calling xbow hunters opportunists?? Why because using trail cams, bait, drones, shooting from your deck, etc.. doesn’t make you one as long as you have a bow? If everyone using a xbow would wear blaze orange 80% of private land hunters would never see any.
Trickle rut and a few others get it.
Sorry Tony, you are wrong about one thing. Hunting isn't a tradition, it is a human animal instinct as a hunter gatherer. We are an omnivorous animal and to take that away is artificially taking away what we really are. To me the only real humans are us that hunt. For those of you that state the fighting about the xgun is only helping the anti's, Bull Sh#@. That is something within our ranks and the anti's don't give a rats ass. Xgun's destroyed a tradition, but hunting is not a tradition, it is an instinct.
Can I suggest contacting both your state senator and assembly person? Like planting a tree, now is better.
to all anti xbow people, Now some of you know my story above, This does not change my7 opinion of xbows, Any of you vocal anti xbow folk exclusively use a long bow ? O.K. lets try this A Recurve and cedar arrows with turkey feathers and no manufactured rest ? You folks can complain about xbows, The rest of you, You are using manufactured modern equipment, Shame on you elitists ! Pope and Young, fred Bear and the Boys would be rolling over in their graves if they knew you were using modern equipment, UGH I cant believe it ! non Traditionalists complaining about non traditionalists ! Go figure
Jeez. You guys are nuts.
Grouch sounds like the Democrats in power always spouting off about bipartisanship and unity. When in reality it only means agreeing with their opinion.
Thanks Jeff Sigler from West Virginia
I have no data on this, no hard facts, no studies, just word of mouth stories from hunters, a few deer processors, and all in all just unproven anecdotal conversations. So hardly scientific, and zero evidence. But these " stories, sad but true, appear that deer wounding has increased with the use of scoped crossbows. It only makes sense with some hunters taking 100+ yard shots with crossbow scoped 30/30. Again these are anecdotal coffee shop barber chair stories. But it makes sense with the range some shoot these things. A bolt really has no knock down kinetick energy at long range like a rifle. It's more akin to throwing a spear or atali 100+ yards. Very if any room for error. One processor told me more broadheads and bolt sections being found the last few years than he did in the past when processing venison. Again, anecdotal but food for thought.
Trickle, that is something I said from the beginning after finding 6 unrecovered deer in an area that I know got pounded by a group that I also know used xguns. I got chastised on here for even stating that. Common sense and just knowing says it is hard to find first blood as your distance increases.
Nobody is arguing the use of crossbows for individuals who cannot physically shoot a bow.
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The argument is those able body hunters who take the easy way out. I have a few relatives who shot deer with a bow every 4-6 years. When we allowed crossbows, each dropped their bows for crossbows. For 3 years straight, they filled their tags opening day of crossbow season. They still fill their tags and average 7-8 deer a year with them. Now, they have included a 9 yr old kid and a GF who never hunted before. Ironically, they chose to hunt in a different area because the lack of deer in ours.
How does this support those who state crossbows are just as hard to hunt with? That they deserve to be fully included in the archery season?
IMO, those who support crossbows either have made the change or will. To them, a shortened season doesn't matter. It takes less time to shoot deer with a crossbow, much like a gun.
"How does this support those who state crossbows are just as hard to hunt with that they deserve to be fully included in the archery season?"
The only things that are harder to hunt with a crossbow are. Heavier, cocking quickly in case of needing a second shot, un-cocking.
You just described a 30/30 Jeff. What am I misguided by here?
This is a republican bill, but you guys are still bitching about liberals? And then talk about people that only hear what they want?
"One processor told me more broadheads and bolt sections being found the last few years than he did in the past when processing venison. Again, anecdotal but food for thought."
How do you tell the difference?
Grub, please read my first post which slammed Republicans and the authors on this bill.
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The broadheads are packaged different. Crossbow are typically heavier and the mechanical are set with heavier springs. And I'm fairly certain they are pink in color to match the camo.
I assume by the diameter oldhunter. And or the knock? I will ask him soon that's a good question. Actually picking up some hot sticks from him soon. I'll ask maybe he saves all that stuff he finds.
Calling on all doctors of the mind .... why does a man want to kill easy ? We know why the DNR and the industry want it .
Beer, bait piles, trail cams, decks and the other things you mentioned are not weapons. You are attempting to to compare apples to oranges.
Throw all the crap you wish against the wall to see what sticks, BUT you will never CANCEL ME ! Ive been around too long and have too much experiences to be canceled by the likes of you folks, famous old saying still applies, Let those without sin throw the first stone, The rest of you go away or something like this, You folks are so smart you figure it out
"The broadheads are packaged different. Crossbow are typically heavier and the mechanical are set with heavier springs. And I'm fairly certain they are pink in color to match the camo."
So the afore mentioned processor is finding broadheads inside of deer that are still in the package. AMAZING!!!! Additionally, the processor can tell the weight and the mechanics of a mechanical broadhead, just by looking at it???? That person is in the wrong profession.
Grouch, sounded like you would not be CANCELED anyway with medical/age. You have no dog in this fight.
Jake, we get it. You are a great ambassador to the crossbow and its usage.
Sure sounds like Jake. So passionate about someone else's State
"So the afore mentioned processor is finding broadheads inside of deer that are still in the package. AMAZING!!!! Additionally, the processor can tell the weight and the mechanics of a mechanical broadhead, just by looking at it???? That person is in the wrong profession."
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Weight, size and color of broadhead. I'm fairly certain Rage crossbow broadheads are gold instead of yellow instead of pink camo. Doesn't sound too complicated, even for a butcher;)
"Throw all the crap you wish against the wall to see what sticks, BUT you will never CANCEL ME ! Ive been around too long and have too much experiences to be canceled by the likes of you folks, famous old saying still applies, Let those without sin throw the first stone, The rest of you go away or something like this, You folks are so smart you figure it out"
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Props for the John 8:7 quote but for the rest of your post, I give you:
"At no point in your rambling, incoherent response was there anything that could even be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
Boomer LOL. I swear I thought of the same Billy Madison quote after reading it. Cant make that up either.
"Grouch, sounded like you would not be CANCELED anyway with medical/age. You have no dog in this fight."
Where is it verified that anybody 65 or older, or with a "former" medical disability crossbow permit would be exempt from any changes?
By giving the DNR the ability to manage the seasons gave them the ability to grant age and physical ability issues. It was discussed during the writing of the Separate season bill. There was no way any org was going to take away the opportunity already afforded to those individuals. It was also supported by at least one group with physically impaired hunters.
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You are worried about nothing under our current law.
Where is it not verified? Where does it say it would not go back to the previous laws? Again, no dog.
Yeah, you must be right as you were there during the drafting of the bill(insert eye rolling).... The bill gives the DNR the ability to adjust the crossbow season as necessary.
Why are there liberal dems on a hunting site, they voted against hunting? Are they really that stupid?
Missouribreaks, the Republicans voted in the x-bow and doing it again. It doesn't matter if a R or D, the majority do not even know what bowhunting is about or hunting in general, they are led by whoever benefits them and not the general hunters. A generic season will be the norm, the only one will suffer is the public as the private can do whatever they want and that is the legislators priorities.
I miss the simple times when the best shooter could get out to 40 yards, many guys shot bare bow, gun season was three days and people let people hunt on their land.
Voting in the crossbow is not voting for anti hunting, in fact crossbow hunters are the majority during archery seasons.
Now, voting for Joe, AOC, Harris, Schumer and other liberal dems clearly promotes the anti hunting agenda.
Many valid opinions. However I think the only thing I learned by reading through all the posts was Grouch enjoys watching Ellen and Oprah.
BTW my opinion. There is a season for primitive shoulder mounted weapons. It currently runs concurrent with gun season and gets the week after gun season as well.
Hey oldhunter, a “former” disability means nothing. It is real, current disabilities that would matter. You are proof the dumbing down of America began long ago. Grouch certainly helps you prove it.
Yes, the Rep's screwed up with the xgun thing in WI and in all actuality people in that profession don't know the difference between a bow and a xgun so they think they are helping. But, here is the big thing, I would have to say all of the anti-hunting/trapping/fishing org's are Democrap's. The more you vote them in, the more power you give the wack jobs. They are coming out of the woodwork now thinking they have the hammer. I sure as hell did not vote them in and if they push I am going to push back harder.
"former" medical disability crossbow permit would be exempt from any changes?
Hey oldhunter, a “former” disability means nothing. It is real, current disabilities that would matter. You are proof the dumbing down of America began long ago. Grouch certainly helps you prove it.
Reread it again and notice the word permit.
Actually, Wisconsin's legalizing of crossbow use was very bi-partisan for a change. 99% of state legislators voted in favor of using crossbows, Democrats and Republicans.
Sorry Guys I do have a dog in this fight, I have hunted long enough to see whats happening in the hunting world, Buck kill is down so blame crossbows, I remember almost double the buck and deer kill of today back in the 80,s and 90,s , Then dnr went on a deer kill rampage because deer were destroying habitat ??????? Yea O K , so now because of dnr policies there are fewer deer, fewer bucks , so the quickest and easiest way is to blame xbows, I have hunted the same large area since 1972, where I used to see 20 to 40 deer a day during rifle season, Now I am lucky to see 2 deer, Finally after years of complaining about dwindling deer herd the dnr and local cdac finally admitted it is true, Kinda like pulling teeth ya know, I now firmly believe rifle seasons in wi will be a thing of the past sooner than later, because o0f encroaching populations and anti gun sentiment, Bows, Crossbows have longer seasons, So much more varied weather, Changing of seasons so different opportunities, A better challenge and time for more comraderie, Please quit the fight, the anti,s love it, take advantage of what you have.
For those constant doubters, here I some kills---the year 2000---about 617,000 total deer killed, the year 2015 total deer kill---276,000 I rest my case !!!! its not xbows, its deer numbers ! 2015 is the last data on the sight I looked up !
Please do not forget CWD depopulation and the large increase in predation, including wolves, bears, coyotes and bobcat. Much more in play than simply crossbows.
Yeah, quit blaming crossbows. All those harvest success rate numbers are fake news! lol
Crossbows play their part too.
"Yeah, quit blaming crossbows. All those harvest success rate numbers are fake news! lol"
I echo the LOL!
Those years of 600,000 + harvests would have been what? with crossbow inclusion. The best numbers I can find are the average success rate for.....rifle 26%. Archery 17%. That's the average from 1995-2005. Before crossbow inclusion. Now archery has remained stable at around 17% give or take. Crossbow is overtaking rifle success rates at 27%. Include crossbow into the archery numbers and wonder what that shall be? But with phone in registration who knows what the actual numbers are or would be?
what difference does your new argument make ? First archers complain that xbows are killing all the deer, I show its a numbers game, Less deer, less kill, Less percentages, Any Moron can deduce this from the information, Yes xbow hunters are killing more deer, I agree, BUT WHY ? Could it bee more xbow hunters ? YES< WHY< more archers going to xbows ! More rifle hunters going to xbows ? YES WHY ? Longer seasons, More opportunities, Nicer weather ! So yes more xbow hunters, Getting better at using it and better at hunting, More chances to take good shots,
Grouchy, you forgot one important variable. A more efficient weapon at a time of year when bucks are more vulnerable. Did you forget this or purposely omit it because it shoots a valid hole in your argument?
Actually grouch if you wanna tag me Moron I'll tag you. Dear Mr. Dimbulb. The harvest success rates have remained very static in that 10 year period. Regardless of Deer density, number of tags, actual number of License sold. G Rifle around 25%. Archery 17%. What does that surmise to you? And the impact crossbow now has? Moron out. God bless (morons too) you all.
Groch, as Capt said, it's not the number of deer, it is the bucks that could not have been taken because of that bow in your hand. Because of the xgun that now is shot like a gun and are able to be effective at longer range by anyone who can shoot a gun, they are taken or they are tried to be taken and not sure of the hit because they took a stupid shot. All who have hunted during the rut phases know the slaughter it would be with a rifle, now the have one.
Grouchy is typical of today's opportunist. He doesn't have a passion for bowhunting. He wants a long season with the most efficient weapon he can have. Very common today....
Nobody who hunts with a crossbow has a passion for bow hunting, they have a passion for scoped crossbow hunting. They are not bow hunters and they are not bow hunting.
Trickl rut nobody called you Morton, Your very touchy ! And Missour Breaks only come back is to CANCEL ??? Typical of Liberals attack, All emotion, No Facts and or figures,
year 2000 gun buck kill--171,753 year 2015 buck kill--99, 757 ---71,996 less bucks killed, 2015 archery buck kill 40,579 ---2015 archery buck kill 31,229---9,350 less-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------2000 gun doe kill 356,741---2015 gun doe kill ---122,974---233,767 less--------------archery doe kill 2000 --46,220 ----2015 archery doe kill---21,775----24,445 less Yup sure enough less kill by far, less deer by far ! OH but according to some its the crossbows , Not less deer, FACTS AND FIGURES my friends
Grouchy, numbers only matter if all variables are included. A little common sense does hurt either.
Again Grouch, why are you bringing in the total kills? The impact will be on the bucks being hunted with a gun during the rut.
Capt mike show me variables and we can discuss,
Wow! Cannot see the forest for the trees. Here is a hint, it begins with cross and ends with bow.
What is a debate ? A discussion of varying viewpoints, With the possibility of changing perspectives ! My My My a mind is a terrible thing to waste, Never Mind
Cannot change the perspective of someone not willing to consider a very real variable. But you are correct, you mind has been wasted.
Scoped crossbows for all during archery season is one contributing factor.
no facts, No figures, just emotional talk, That's not a debate, this is not worth the effort
You finally realize why you havent been debated? You cannot convince the mind of someone who's mind is already made up. That is everyone here. The one variable discussed, has indeed impacted the sport of archery. Some see it as a good change and some not so much. One thing I see as certain. Crossbow hunting takes zero skill when it comes to weapon. Much like a rifle, it should not be included into the archery season, as one whole. Shame on the Republicans for this one.
I think Scoped crossbows for all during archery season is one contributing factor.
Grouch, you know as well as everyone that bowhunt's knows that when you needed to get the doc's permit it was like getting a golden ticket for some. Why? Because all those missed opportunities of killing that buck with a bow now became easier because they are hunting with a gun. That is the primary thing about all of this, not the number of deer, it is the time of the year and the bucks taken.
My trip to the proshop for arrows in August last year tells the difference . I asked the owner how was business ? He said , " I won't know for a while . Vertical bowhunters are like you , Your in & out all year long & you shoot year around . The Crossbow guys show up about 3 weeks before opening of deer season , buy a crossbow , some bolts , a scope & I never see them again for a year . " I said, yea about the same as Deer rifle sales .'
The reason I researched deer kills is to show those who say xbow users are killing all the deer, Especially before gun season, From a few xbow haters all I hear is no deer, no bucks because of xbows, I am showing this is not true, OUR DNR has done a great job of shrinking our deer herd, !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's all I am saying !
Will the northern herd further it's bounce back after this winter? What are the potential obstacles?
Scoped crossbows for all during archery season is one contributing factor and or obstacle.
Yes Grouch, the DNR and legislators are complicit in reducing the herd. One of the methods (variables) they have used is allowing crossbows during a timeframe when bucks are more susceptible.
These rut vulnerable bucks taken with somewhat ease with a scoped crossbow are not much of a trophy as far as archery hunting accomplishments go.
Oxymoron grouch. You can't use DNR and a great job in the same sentence. That's akin to saying Army intelligence. They don't go together. The last thing the DNR does is a "good job". They did such a good job that there is few if any deer in the northern counties. Yes DNR well done! Great job!
O.K. O.K. I throw in the towel, keep your hate ! I gave info showing deer kill plummeted long before crossbows became an issue ! But some minds are blinded by hate and see nothing but what they want, I,m done ! You win, Noit worth my time or effort
CaptMike +1
Grouch- Glad to see you throw in the towel and you too get to keep your hate. You've just made yourself another statistic when it comes down to the opposition trying to change the mind of others. Cant convince others to see their side, so blame it on hate in their hearts. Yet your mind wont be changed either. Its ridiculous and you remind me of someone from the past. Another out of stater who was only passionate about our states crossbow legislation.
Your numbers are not convincing or plausible. As to what CaptMike said above. It's because DNR finds the whitetail a nuisance. This is just another variable in their success. Implemented in a time the whitetail is most vulnerable. Just a smidge reason why some are against them. The sport of archery is dying. Yield to the impatient opportunists. The new wave of hunters
Grouch, do you practice selective reading? The comments have been clear and concise. There is no point in repeating it again if you have not got it by now. What you have proved with your comments is that you are the most closed-minded guy on this thread. It is very apparent that crossbow use carries a negative stigma. Even those who truly need to use them are plagued by this negative, disgraced aura that compound bow use carries with it.
Shrinking the deer herd all started with the T-Zone, use to live in N.E. Monroe Co. by some big public land and it was the beginning of the end, 5 tags per person back to back gun season put a huge hole in the deer herd which never came back, the private land owners wouldn't hunt their land they just loaded up on the public.
The x-gun was design for the disabled and now it is no coming back for a conventual bowhunter, the bow season was over when the DNR decided to make the bow season a game management tool which it was never intentionally design for, sad situation and the lost of bow hunting heritage, just glad that I am at the twilight of my hunting, if I was a young man I wouldn't waste the time or energy in todays season. Enjoy your hunt.
Grouch, I promise not to try t to tell the nice people from WVA how it's best to conduct an ARCHERY season. Goodbye and stay well.
Grouch, skip the you guys are hater tactics, you forgot the best defense, its racism!!
In 2001 the over concern for deer management was suspicious. In 2021 it is just a plain bore The thing is today's hunt for a deer with a absence of archery has become not relevant , a bore , Many traded archery in for deer management or growing deer . Its not only unfortunate but unsustainable especially at a state level or public land use level.
