Beginning of the end
Wisconsin
WI , known forever for it's great White tail population & the Quality of those White tails .
The beginning of the End has started . Thanks to the DNR , Madison politics ,& the NRA .
Deer hunting starts in mid Sept. & Runs to mid Jan . Unrelenting . We actually managed to keep the herd stable & still have quality Deer .that's coming to an end . Why ? A 14 week Crossbow season .
1 st issue . the NRA . The NRA decided to get involved in our hunting . Our state rep told me , Ron K . & Others that they were going to work on Expanding hunting opportunities . A group of us tried to fight the long season but we never had a chance .
Of course with a political appointment head of DNR , They were useless .
Has anyone studied what has happened to other states with long Crossbow seasons ? I have . In 5 years the White tail herd will never be the same & our quality hunting will be gone . We need to shorten the season .
We must unite & elect a Republican Gov in office with a promise that the gov will make the head of the DNR an Elected position. Then the outdoorsman can control our future . If anyone have a better idea post it .
Crossbows became legal for everyone in 2014, smack dab during the middle of Governor Walker's two terms, with Republicans holding both chambers of the legislature. Bill AB194 passed with flying colors. Went thru both Republican chambers and landed on Walkers desk where he gave it his signature in 2013. And in 2014, crossbows appeared in WI for everyone and the age and disability requirements were removed.
I don't think you can claim this is the fault of Democrats when the ones who passed Bill AB194 were Republicans - who controlled the house, the senate and the governor's office.
Do I think it would of made a difference if Democrats were in ofice? No. My point is that this is not political.
I whole heartedly agree!!! Been trying to say that for a long time. Deer were not allowed to be hunted during the rut with a gun in WI for the protection of the resource now and future. The xgun full inclusion has broken that protection. I guarantee this is why I’m not finding adult buck activity on public forest areas around Eau Claire and Clark county’s. It is a travesty and a bad end to what was a great deer hunting state public and private lands. As I’ve said many times I love the fact I got to hunt during the heydays of hunting and the sport that archery was during that time. This is why I get so vocal about it. If I can stop 1 person to use a bow instead of an xgun I’ve succeeded in saving the sport. Unfortunately when things go bad is when shortening xgun season will be looked at. The thrill of effort to gain is gone and this inclusion only proves it
Changing the govt won't change the publics attitude. The public wants more technology and easier. The opposite of what true bowhunting is in my opinion. Sorry, but in my opinion we are past the point of no return. Going....going.....gone.....
I would agree that we are past the point of no return. The fact of the matter is that despite our little bubble on this forum, more people in the general public want crossbows than don't.
Go to your local archery shop and ask where they are making their money these days? They will sigh and say the crossbows.
At least the public of WI keeps shooting down the 14 day gun season.
Bear now makes a crossbow. Fred is no longer alive, but the Bear brand has in my opinion been tainted with the sellout to capitalize on what the majority of hunters want. That is in fact the crossbow. There are a few left in my circle who still use the bow, but many switched over, and I never would have believed it. They were never bow hunters. They were simply deer hunters, and there is a difference. A deer killed by a bow, had a special category. It was a trophy just because it was harder, and traditional made it an even greater treasure. My only complaint is the complaining. If there was truly a way to seek change, it's not complaining about it on a "bow" forum. It's legislation, and I'm afraid that ship has sailed. What will happen Ruger asks? Seasons will have to change. Lengths for sure, but likely, we will eventually become a one buck state. That wouldn't be an issue if we had fewer predators.....including ourselves. The crossbow is to archery as the smartphone is to the rotary landline. We are a people who have continually improved upon what was once innovative, and it is our greatest attribute and our worst enemy. The crossbow takes a lot of heat, but there are many many tools (some I use), that have made killing deer easier. Perhaps right now, the crossbow has the greatest impact on easier to kill deer, but there are plenty of other things who can take some of the blame? Even the vertical bow hunter can in fact take some of the blame. Wolves, coyotes, bears, bobcats, fishers, urban sprawl, privatization, terrible forest management, season lengths, trail cameras, cellular cameras, CWD, weather, baiting, food plotting, etc. The list is long, but all hunters are to blame. I'm grateful that our little piece of the pie is full of people who feel similarly to hunting as we all do. It's a cooperative approach to good hunting, and we here, are not in short supply. The forest however is a graveyard of emptiness. Beautiful in its spaciousness, and devoid of deer in many places. That is a shame.
Here comes the excuses for tag soup.
Vilas is right Walker gutted the DNR, promoted cafos, polluted our water and will destroy fishing as well.
I will say it again, get with the times, not much difference in carrying a crossbow or carrying a rifle during the 9 day any weapon season.
Get over yourselves.
Now I checked into this in 2015. Walker went gun deer hunting. No deer. He said we need more deer for hunters to see. He brought in the Texas deer czar to fix a problem that didn't exist. What came of it. No more units just 3 big management areas. Baiting was promoted. No more back tags. No more in person registration. Crossbows that the czar said would help management. Now I smelt a skunk. I heard from some Madison politicos walker was never a hunter. So I filed a open records request for walkers history of buying deer license. After 3 years I finally got the answer. His whole life he bought you got it that one year license. So we had a governor who wanted better hunting and a deer czar who wanted his products sold here and between the two of them they had no none zero experience of our traditions and stature of a top flight whitetail state. Former DNR head George Meyer and his biologists basically got ran out of dodge. They were against crossbow inclusion and most of the changes. They tried to protect our traditions and those that agreed got their job chopped or told to retire. Scott Walker did more damage to our deer hunting in this state than anyone in history. He knew better afterall he did buy a license to deer hunt.....ONCE!
Trickle
See we can agree, you are spot on.
The only thing I can add is there was no need for an open records request.
The photo op he had in his blaze ogre that you could tell had never seen the woods one day. I doubt he ever left the truck, that blaze was fresh outta Walmart.
So true Trickle , I even helped with Walkers campaign . What a huge disappointment he was . Makes me nervous about Rebecca .
Mostly agree with Trickle with a couple exceptions. The deer czar was brought in to eliminate a failed and misused SAK method to determine deer populations. And, he brought us the CDAC’s which could be a good have been a good thing. The lack of true hunters getting involved with them left the door open for many others, including those intent on killing all the deer to save the deer from CWD and too many seats given to those who do not hold deer in high regard. Yes, Walker did not do the hunters any favors bu, ascRuger mentioned, it was the high dollar influence of the NRA that made the difference in getting the crossbow season implemented.
I could care less about which party this or be that. We need integrity brought back and leaders who can say "I don't know" not leaders who say they are the smartest person alive. Less brainwashing more science. I hope to be able to explain someday to my grandchildren about the 9 day gun season how it was a state holiday week. Schools closing. Merchants and hotel and cabin rentals up north depending on the gun hunt. Big buck contests. Bars a sea of orange. Trying to get off work to hunt. Gas stations that sold hot coffee and jerky not corn and apples. Overhearing the question " get your buck?" Proudly pinning that back tag on thru the worn holes on your jacket. Hearing the first rifle crack on opening morning. Tired cause you didn't sleep well the night before but full of energy and anticipations. That's all gone now. Killing a deer any deer with a bow and arrow. The success of that of actually doing it that's all gone too. Pheasant hunting wild birds and the great taste of a lead pellet between your teeth. That's gone too. Turkeys? They will only stay in a corridor along the Mississippi River. They won't destroy grouse nests or dominate white oak acorns flats. Wolves we will only have 350 statewide they will only kill sick or diseased deer. They will be good for the herd. So whomever is running this shit show either Republican or Democrat I say this. YOU SIR OR MADAM ARE DOING A SHITTY JOB WITH OUR RESOURCES AND FEEDING THE PUBLIC YOUR KOOL AID. And we want you to take that responsibility and fess up. Just say we made mistakes and own them
Ask method Mike. What would those guys be saying now if they did a SAK? They would want to make the whole top third of the state buck only. Alarms would go off for those biologists statewide. CDAC was yes a good thing in theory but they forgot one thing. They gave those committees no power. No veto power. It was just a feel good thing and we sucked it right down. NRA. I never gave them a dime. And seeing what they did with all the money they got for years from hunters sickens me. Yachts, mansions, women, travel and of course the crossbow. All of you who joined and donated they laughed at the suckers while having their 3 martini lunch. Dr. James Kroll the deer czar? What kind of doctor? Sorry but being a biologist doesn't make you a doctor any more than rocket scientist is. He has a PHD that does not make you a doctor of anything. But he likes the sound of it. And btw his company is the largest manufacturer of elevated automatic deer spin feeders. He has no conflict deer czaring up here right? Like retro said. We are screwed. With our pants on
Trickle, you're spot on and I'd like to add that I think a lot of it comes down to money.
I think the NRA has been on the right side of many things, but it's all for the wrong reasons. The NRA does not have a heart or a soul, they have a goal - their goal is to get the most guns sold as possible. There are good side effects of that - like fighting to protect 2A rights.
And there are bad side effects of that - like fighting for crossbows. Why would they fight for crossbows? Well they are a great way to get someone who hasn't been around guns or hunting into hunting. If you've never been around guns, they are "scary", but a crossbow.... not so much. Get someone a crossbow and put them in the woods? They are a hunter now. They will probably buy a rifle for next seasona nd maybe even try a shotgun for some birds. Now the gun folks have made some money.
I read the NRA magazine sometime. It's such a joke. The other issue had some whole article about "Your daughter isn't a hunter? Well make your son in law gets into hunting!". Why? Because of a passion for hunting? No. To sell guns.
Why allow companies to pollute our rivers and lakes give us diseased fish with eating advisories? Well those companies donate a lot of money to campaigns. More than some local fishing group could.
The fact of the matter is that a true woodsman, one who can truly appreciate bowhunting, is not the kind of person that is going to rise through the ranks of politics, and if they are - they will be outnumbered. Politics will always be about money and that will be bad for the deer.
Even "tourism" who have a seat at CDAC, they are only thinking about next years profits (I don't blame a business trying to survive), but if more doe tags are sold, more money is spent at bars and motels.
I don't think it's all doom and gloom, though. When European settlers came to North America and took over the contintent - there were no game laws. Buffalo, gone. Deer, gone. Well how about now? Deer are back (not enough), elk are being reintroduced (granted they will never get to a point where they can be hunted).
So on the grand scheme of things, shit goes up and shit goes down. We are down from where we were in recent memory, but up from where we were in many years past.
I don't think crossbows are going away. I know they aren't. We all know they aren't. There's money in them AND the majority want them.
I think the most productive thing we could do is encourage better habitat for deer. Logging for example. Helps the deer. Makes money. Win, win.
And, at the end of the day, I see a lot of pictures on the Meat Pole thread. Yes, stuff is bad. Yes it is getting worse. But lots of us are tagging deer and having a great time doing it. I think it can be easy to caught up in all the bad stuff and forget about all the good.
You have alot of wisdom Vilas. We went from no deer seasons for a few years in the 30's to wolf bounties for years to where we are now. Mother nature always wins in the end. We lose sight of that partner cause we think we know better
Trickle, agreed, the CDAC's have no power. That they are often comprised of guys with an agenda cannot be ignored. That sure does not help. Some northern units getting far too many doe tags. I guess that goes hand-in-hand with the DNR and their green sheet hearings they used to hold. Give the public a platform to spout off and then they go ahead with their pre-conceived agenda anyways. And, you are spot on regards the NRA. Yes, they are the largest voice for our second amendment but as with almost anything that has to do with humans, they have taken great advantage. I do think that James Kroll calling himself a "doctor" only has to do with marketing himself and his products, even though Jill Biden calls herself a doctor due to her PHD. Kroll's feeders mean nothing here in WI because they are not legal. And I agree we are screwed but I think we only have ourselves to blame. Hunters in general are a very apathetic bunch. So much more can be done by those who act proactively as compared to those who only get involved reactively.
Alot of great information to read above. Thats something about walker. Another great post by Vilas and trickle. Im not a Democrat by any means but I sure didn't like what walker was doing in the end. If what you say about him is true. Which I am not surprised because he really fd things up.
Oh the Texas deer farmer we gave a million dollars to, nothing but a stooge to codify Walkers agenda.
Ask any DNR employee what Walker did to the DNRs authority, all because the Dairy lobby was filling his coffers, along with many other special interests I’m sure.
CDAC is a joke, a bunch of self proclaimed deer snobs that want to turn Wisconsin into a giant deer farm, and never hunted a piece of public land in their life.
It’s never coming back thanks to Scottie boy. Disgusting
Got to move with the herds, like the Indians did. I think some of you have been asleep the last ten years when I had been bringing these issues to light. It is over now for the bow and arrow hunting culture in Wisconsin. Go to a museum if you want to glimpse what the real bowhunting experience was like. Today's archery taken deer are not trophies, just participation ribbons, far too easy with modern equipment. No respect earned by the scoped crossbow hunter, just disgust.
Geez Always. See you can post without non sense. Mike yes the hunting group is a intolerable bunch good point. Wish we had some way of putting their nuts in a vice. One other thing is the loss of sportsman's clubs. With their gun and bow ranges weekly trap shooting and Sunday chicken shoots. That was a gathering place and a good way for hunters to unite on topics. Alot of those gone now too. In stand since 5:15. Nothing yet. I moved to stand #3. Do Muskrats migrate? Saw a lone one yesterday heading into the woods. Just a bit ago another one over here. I know it's not the same one cause it's smaller and more brown color. Deer hunting and I have noisy Muskrats going by. Kinda strange. Nearest water is about 1/4 mile away and that's just a drainage creek.
Yes muskrats migrate, the carrying capacity of a pond is limited.
Trickle, in the same way that hunting is heading south, so have the sportsmen’s clubs. It boils down to priorities and hunting just does not hold the esteem, the high priority and the value that it once did. I still belong to a sportsman’s club where we shoot trap every week, schedule fishing outings, shoot our 3D targets and hold a small rifle sight-in clinic. And, we sponsor and conduct a couple Hunter Safety courses through the year. And probably most importantly, we sit around having a beer or two and regularly discuss current events as they pertain to our hunting and shooting sports. I also belong to SCI which in some ways is similar to NRA in how certain members benefit from the efforts of others. Nonetheless, and similar to NRA being the largest watchdog and voice of gun owners, SCI is the largest and most impactful hunters rights organization.
Good job gang , lots of good info & conversations with no fighting . Yet . Someone asked me if I stopped my NRA membership because of their involvement .I said no way , they are still our best defence for our Gun rights .
We have 1,5 million Outdoorsman & women . If we could only organize , we could control what we need in Hunting & Fishing . And make all politicans very nervous .
Ruger if a hunting alliance could be formed and the politicians could see losing large blocks of votes they would toe the line. Now they pander to who gives them cash for re- election. How that could be organized I do not know
Ruger if a hunting alliance could be formed and the politicians could see losing large blocks of votes they would toe the line. Now they pander to who gives them cash for re- election. How that could be organized I do not know
The only thing I learned in Political Science class years ago was that once you give people the right to do something, it is nearly impossible to remove that right.
Alliance? Organize? LOL, the thread started out with why we as hunters will never align. We simply cannot think about hunting without consideration of what mostly appeals to ourselves individually. We are for the most part loners. Camps break up, friendships get broken, land gets sold, over our individualism. I'm witnessing it unfold right now at a friend's deer camp. This time (and it has happened a few times over other things), this time over a relative wanting to bring his wife to camp second weekend of the 9 day gun season. "Deer camp is for men!"
This relates to what Trickle mentioned earlier about certain people in big organizations enjoying luxuries. Apparently he, as well as I, are bothered by some of the people in these organizations who make large sums of money and get lots of perks. However, we need to remember that doing that kind of work is far from a volunteer basis and it requires many full-time people and so I guess they do deserve to get paid for their efforts.
I agree with most, but the SCI, really???
They and the deer czar are the root of the problem
Walker did a ton of good for the state, but I agree this is one thing he certainly got wrong. Other than that, I wholeheartedly agree with Retro...we are only experiencing what the majority is demanding...and the majority isn't about the "hunt", they are about the "kill", by whatever means necessary. Hunting as we knew it, and wish it could be again, is G-O-N-E. We'd get further beating our heads against a rock than debate the reasons why. My advice, enjoy it the way you like for as long as you can and don't dwell on the next guy because it's too late.
Organizing is out of the question. By the way, there have been countless pro bow and arrow hunting organizations, to which very, very few ever belong. Bow and arrow hunting today is basically a personal quest, for those who are up to the challenge.
The only reason the majority is demanding it now is because it was made legal. No one demanded it when it was 65+ or disabled. Again, it's done, one stroke of a pen killed a whole sport.
I don't mean just true archery hunting but all of it. Organize enough people to look at all the legislation and such. One thing the DNR and politicians don't like is somebody poking around in their underwear drawer
That’s a drop of 14% year-over-year. 2021?s total is also down 20.3% from the five-year average for opening weekend spanning 2016 through 2020 of 107,762.
