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So this is my 6th time hunting deer in N/W Kansas, and I bird hunt out here almost every year for pheasant, I have been at it for close to 14 days now and the lack of deer in comparison to every other time I’ve been here is starting. Did some kind of die off happen or is KDWP starting to take management lessons from Colorado.

In all seriousness I can count the deer I’ve seen on one hand, I have spanned 3 counties looking for them. All of my hunting has been on wiha or state land.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Sad to see.

Put the blame where it belongs, on those that pushed to be able hunt in Kansas, those that wanted to profit off that demand, those that want to lease and sell deer habitat, those that wanted to sell more hunting equipment, those in the legislature that wanted to benefit from deer hunting income and tax revenues it would generate. Those politicians, that just so happened to be involved in deer commercialism themselves, forced KDWP to abandon deer resource management policies to allow deer commercialism access into Kansas. The Legislature, many of the agriculture lobby groups, KSU, Farm Bureau, Kansas Livestock Assoc, , etal are to blame for what has happened since the very first NR tags were issued.

KDWP fought against the deer commercialism push for many years, warning that without restrictions and limits on the number of NR tags allowed, that our deer resource would be negatively affected. Certain members of the legislature boldly publicly stated during legislative hearings, that if KDWP didn’t issue more NR buck tags, that they would take steps thru legislation and by making adjustments to reduce KDWP’s budget until they decided to cooperate with them. I was at many of these meetings, as were several other people that frequent these threads.

What you are experiencing with reduced population, only being able to hunt Wiha and public hunting because access to private properties comes with a steep price attached today, as well as deer habitat land prices being 5000% or more higher than they were pre-1996, are all due to commercialism of the wildlife resources.

Commercialism of deer hunting is who to blame.

Commercialism has also led to the overpopulation in some areas of the state. Zero incentive to shoot/don’t shoot does.

I’ll disagree with Randy on one point, KDWP has some fault in this... standing down is compliance.

The whole process for game laws/regulations/ management needs to be systematically dismantled and replaced. Only one way that’s going to happen... start electing officials who give a dang, but unfortunately “wildlife management” would be a hard platform to run on.

Obviously, I’m a conservative, but the so-called “Republicans” in this state have a huge role in this disaster... maybe more so than the libs? I’m really tired of the Republican Party.

While loading out processed deer for four sets of hunters (9) wednesday, I got to visiting and they all were hunting within about a two mile radius of each other, all seeing plenty of deer and four of the individuals shot nice bucks their first evening on stand.

Having hunters bring deer for processing from 45 miles away. Guess processor's are almost non-existent?

You stand correct in your assessment. Numbers have been going down in the western part of the state for a decade. I bowhunt the majority of the season all over western Kansas from Elkhart to Goodland then back towards Ness County. Very low numbers even on private ground. Last year my college buddies rifle hunted and 1 deer was killed in 10 days. This is an area we know well and have hunted at for 20+ years. These guys are meat hunters so anything brown is down and in ten days a forky was all they managed.

Added seasons, xguns, EVERY change made to the regulations since 1996 as been forced on KDWP by the commercialism lobby and WESTERN KANSAS based politicians that have turned the wildlife resources into a cash crop.

It was never about car deer accidents, not about crop damages nor population management, it has been and always has been about being able to sell deer hunts, selling antlers to be more specific.

KDWP provided data and biological studies to support their stance AGAINST issuing NR buck tags when it was still resident only deer hunting in Kansas. They warned that the herd was still not established enough in many areas of the state to sustain additional harvest pressure, pointing out that many resident hunters were still being required to apply for tags because of that. Once they legislature became involved (again I will point out that those legislators involved were from Western Ks, West of Salina and Wichita, were all actively involved in commercial hunting operations in one form or another) and convinced KDWP via threats of major changes to the agency policies, staffing and budgetary funding, that they needed to allow a limited number of NR tags to be available. The agency stood firm on not allowing any mule deer tags to be issued to NR hunters. Every year since, the agency has been forced to increase the number of tags, including adding mule deer tags, regardless what affect biological studies have shown from the previous seasons has taken place on the resource. Once the commercialism bullied it's way into the state, several of the legislators took it one step further, by taking a majority role on the KDWP Commission level. The lead lobbyist for deer commercialism (the one who lobbied for and secured legislation for the original T-Tags) later became the Secretary of the department.

There is no returning back to how it was in the past before all of this took place. There were far more deer in my area in the mid to late 80's than there ever has been. I saw 20-30 deer every time I sat in a stand, on one property. Mornings and afternoons, always a herd of deer to choose from. I shot one buck nearly every season thru the 80's and 90's, but from 2000 to date, that has not been the case. If I see 20-30 different deer in an entire season of hunting and while driving, I consider that a special thing.

Even if every hunter was required to report their kill, the legislature will not back off on cashing in on the demand to hunt here even if it showed it is having an adverse effect on the resource.

Thornton wins the prize for best guess, it’s a bummer that it hits the year I have a tag, but that’s life.

Thanks for the reply’s folks, I always enjoy a spirited discussion.

Edited in- He has posted it three times on his page, gotten one like and one :O reaction. It would seem that most of his whopping 290 followers have better reading comprehension skills than he possesses, actually took the time to read the whole thread recognizing that his claim that all bowhunters hate the ag producers is a false flag. They are smart enough to know that one person speaking out against wildlife commercialism does not represent all bowhunters.

This bowhunter is against; his and other's push to privatize the ownership of our State's wildlife resources, against individuals profiting from license sales, against politicians personally profiting from legislation that they introduce and promote in Topeka.

It is spread by midges, when water is stagnant and very limited. It’s spread at those sources of water than concentrate deer.

States without baiting, and with broad expanses of prairie where there are no food plots, have had die-offs much worse than Kansas.

That includes North Dakota and Iowa.

Randy I heard in 2012 they were blaming the Missouri River flooding that region for causing some of it. Said that after the flood it caused it caused little water mud holes that normally didn’t have water.

West, I don’t necessarily agree foodplots don’t have some benefit to all wildlife. And I really don’t think they help kill deer. I’ve only killed one buck in my life in a food plot... and he never stuck his nose to the ground to eat, but I’m also fairly picky on what I shoot.

I do think they are pretty much pointless for the effort you put in, but the fact deer flock to those foodplots in Jan/Feb rather than the neighboring CRP fields says a lot. They’d survive without them for sure, but I sure enjoy the work. Another excuse to be outside. I’m a realist, I know you aren’t going to grow huge bucks just because you have a food plot.

West, I don’t necessarily agree foodplots don’t have some benefit to all wildlife. And I really don’t think they help kill deer. I’ve only killed one buck in my life in a food plot... and he never stuck his nose to the ground to eat, but I’m also fairly picky on what I shoot.

I do think they are pretty much pointless for the effort you put in, but the fact deer flock to those foodplots in Jan/Feb rather than the neighboring CRP fields says a lot. They’d survive without them for sure, but I sure enjoy the work. Another excuse to be outside. I’m a realist, I know you aren’t going to grow huge bucks just because you have a food plot.

Deer numbers are down recently on my farm, but it has nothing to do with EHD;-)

Deer numbers are down recently on my farm, but it has nothing to do with EHD;-)

Well-managed CRP will have enough forbs to be pretty much a complete home for upland birds and deer.

Unfortunately, just letting it grow and get thick limits what it has to offer. But, it beats bare ground all to heck.

We had similar, Dave. We have 14-15 acres of spring-fed lake and neighbors had deer piling up. Same deer come to our soybeans in late summer.

Well-managed CRP will have enough forbs to be pretty much a complete home for upland birds and deer.

Unfortunately, just letting it grow and get thick limits what it has to offer. But, it beats bare ground all to heck.

We had similar, Dave. We have 14-15 acres of spring-fed lake and neighbors had deer piling up. Same deer come to our soybeans in late summer.

Only one food-plot has a tree stand near it.

Sounds like deer are dying from the “Frank Variant” on your farm!

Mike, I agree CRP must have plentiful forbs, the picture of mine you see they are absent. We have had a serious serecia problem for 10 years at least. I spray Remedy Ultra every late summer, and then the next Spring I strip disc some and plant more wild flowers. It has been a losing battle. I appreciate your write-ups, and others as well, about the success of late summer burns helping to control serecia. We will try it next year!

My food plots of both annuals and perennials are there to help replace the food supply destroyed by the Remedy. It is a lot of work and money trying to have habitat year round for all native species. I understand the frustration from some like Jeff who think we habitat managers are part of the problem with access. I know what we are trying to do comes from the heart and is not about locking up monster deer on our property to kill and look like heroes. We only have 120 acres.

FYI, Tony, Kicker Point, can verify this. One of the first years I owned the property, Tony came to hunt it with me in late December. The 4 acre plot posted above was planted in milo and climbing beans. While Tony was there, a snow storm hit that dumped 8". The milo was tall enough for them to reach, and had not been touched yet. In two nights we were there the deer came and ate every head off. Tony and I were in a ground blind and counted 40 deer on the plot, and the entire plot was not visible. I believe the closest was 60 yards, I never even picked up my bow. We fed the deer, and they never even said "thank you", lol. Given that type of density, I have learned to plant items that are less attractive and will continue to grow for a more extended period. We really try and do what is right.

Again, I understand some of the frustrations. My perspective is I would rather more people do what we do so the deer would not concentrate to a point that they wipe the food source out. And I have to accept hunting is probably never going back to the way it was, at least not in our lifetimes. Thanks.

A few years ago I got to hunt right next to the 6666 ranch which is over 140,000 acres and beside another pretty good size place that didn’t allow much hunting. A really good place but now both places are for sale which I heard the 6666 might have sold. Look up King County Texas land for sale and find the 20,000 acre ranch for sale. Read the Ad and view the pics and how the owner has took care of this ranch. The owner has never allowed any feeders and I don’t think ever planted a food plot. Kept the land natural as could be and another place that proves you don’t have to feed to grow em big. Kinda of sad to see that place go.

In that same area the Matador ranch is for sale which is 130,000 acres. Between the Matador and 6666 you have the Pitchfork Ranch which is over 160,000 acres and the Tongue River Ranch which is over 80,000 acres.

I currently hunt now right beside the Triangle Ranch which is just east of the Tongue River and it’s 120,000 acres. Hopefully some of these other big ranches stay intact cause it helps the wildlife stay intact as well.

About 7 years ago I took my oldest son on a hunt on some private ground that somebody owned right in the middle of the Waggoner Ranch which is over 500,000 acres. Was really nice to see big deer not pressured and doing what they do...lol you could tell they knew what side of the fence to stay on. That Waggoner sold a few years back though and I heard that Cabelas is involved in the hunting end of it so who knows what direction it’s taking now.

Total per season could vary based on days hunter per season.

I hope I don't tick anyone off, but here are some of my thoughts...

Deer numbers may be down in in some locations due to disease, hunter pressure etc., but I don't think they are down overall. Stats just don't seem to support that in my view, and I know I might be wrong.

Hunting, and hunting pressure has changed as some said above. I believe deer are responding to the changes. There is no shortage of deer, or other wildlife for the most part, on quality land. Quality land typically is private and managed for the purpose of attracting and holding wildlife. And much of this is locked up for lease or private exclusive hunting for family.

I drove home yesterday from our farm, 125 miles, and there were 11 carcasses. Yes, some were in denser populated areas, but many were in rural agriculture areas. I don't believe the rut causes all the deer to die from vehicle accidents, and I can tell you from the last 2 firearms season weekends in MO there must be a lot of deer roaming around, or else there was a ton of practice shooting coincidentally at normally peak deer activity times!

Deer seem to me to be moving to quality, low pressure managed areas. As an example, I have allowed new hunters to bow hunt our three acres were we live, in a rural development. For the last 3-4 years nothing has been harvested, and we get mostly night time pictures on our cameras. I am eliminating the one acre plot after this season and putting it into regular lawn and trees. (which will make my neighbors happy, lol!)

The cause of this is not lower overall numbers, but rather a person who owns a major deer scent company having purchased 400 acres next to our development. He and his family are bow hunters, and have enough money that they have turned the ground into a deer mecca with 1 ton feeders, acres of crops that go unharvested etc. I left for work this morning and about 1 acre of a plot on this place is visible from the blacktop, several hundred yards off of the road, and there were 7 deer highly visible, one with a rack from that distance that still looked impressive. He has all of the habitat the deer need, and honestly this will save us time and energy which seems to be waning as I get older, lol!

Other things I ponder when I read them here...some hunt small parcels with the almost identical stand locations every year and wonder why they see lower deer numbers than in years past. They seem to see deer, but they are usually on the other side of a field. This approach has never worked for me, I rotate stands continuously and begin the season on the edges to have as low as impact strategy as possible. I am anal about not educating deer as to my whereabouts. It seems to have worked thru the years.

Some have reported disgust with the lack of big antlers, but the private leases like Pat frequents seem to have no shortage of them. I don't hunt for bone, and have no problem with those that do. But I observe a lot of deer when I hunt if I do everything right, which is not always easy.

I do agree those of us not able to afford larges expanses of property with the potential to be managed, or not rich enough to afford the best leases, will have to continue to adjust and be happy with "average" deer hunting, or find another activity. Hunting is not going back to the way it was, LOs realize, at least for now, they have something of value above the worth of friendship and a handshake to them.

I saw at least 15 different deer on my property this weekend, in 1.5 days of hunting. I still heard many gun shots in fairly close proximity. There is no shortage IMHO, just a different experience than what many of us are used to. And disease was mentioned by some above, and yet we recognize disease is a natural way to reduce excess populations. Having been born in 1959, yes, there used to be a shortage but compared to then, not any where close to one today, again IMHO.

Observations from the stand are one thing, combine that with 10+ trail cams set on major trails for 10+ yrs might also qualify as another measure?

Rampant baiting, way too liberal tag allowances, the inability to just eat a tag now and then w/o having to prove your "manhood" are much to blame.

IMO of course

Whoops, forgot a couple "??"

I was not trying to tick you or anyone else off, my apology if once again my writing style agitated you.

But yes, I am happy with the two-year-old buck I shot, and I know the veteran who received the donated meat is appreciative as well.

I do care about herd structure, and herd numbers as well. Many biologists believe herds are at or above the point that their damage to fauna will have a long-term impact. Structure, herd size etc. are all important and I honestly am not an expert at any of it. I continue to learn. Like you I have run cameras for years, they are a tool for sure, one of many.

Harvested deer, age etc. play no role into anyone's manhood. Personally, I think anyone of us trying to push "our" way on anyone else is more damaging to our passion. The non-hunters I talk with see trophy hunting in the same light they do baiting, it is not sporting. And I talk to a lot of non-hunters.

I took a father and his 13-year-old son hunting during youth season on our farm this year. Set them up in our Bank's stump blind, had them become proficient before the season with my youth model .243 I loaned them. First day they had a 6 point one year old come within 40 yards of the blind, and the boy decided it was too small.

What a shame, he had the chance to learn a ton, including field dressing, processing etc. It wasn't big enough for him. Later that day he had a mature buck walk by at 100 yards, visible for 15-20 seconds. He could never find the deer in the scope. Buck fever? Experience, that's what kids need IMO. Not being led to think they have to kill some monster to fit in.

I do what I believe to be right in the field. Others may not totally agree, I get it. I hope others who hunt and harvest multiple deer feel more comfortable doing so when they see others willing to share their success here. I hope hunters are encouraged to be proud of the deer they take, and not feel their manhood will be questioned because they took anything less than what someone else established as "the standard".

FYI, 2 times this season I had the chance to harvest a matriarch doe. They were with 2 other generations of offspring. I chose to take the 1.5 year olds so the lead doe could continue to educate the others. I care about structure, and I am still OK harvesting the buck I did. Not saying my decisions are always right, just I always try and do what is right.

Thanks.

Didn't realize we were talking about children, but regardless you should shoot what you want or feels right.

I think we need a hard look at ourselves with regards to hunter priorities.

Honestly, how many of us would rather take a monster buck with bragging head gear even though the “take” was a lengthy suffering by a poor hit and only the rack, cape and back straps were salvageable versus a two year old buck taken cleanly and fully recovered? If no one knew the realities of the first buck except for the hunter, how many would give that hunter kudos while looking down their noses at the second hunter?

Which hunt would we share transparently with the non-hunting public?

Yep, I am very proud of my kill this year, I own no shame as I do with ones I have recovered too late to save anything but souvenirs from. Is it about us, or the gift from nature?

EDIT: Bryan, maybe telling your son you will be proud of him no matter what he decides might make a difference. Kids sometimes choose what they think we want.

I don’t think my style is any more of a dig than your blasting those who use failure piles. We believe different things, and I am ok with that. My “sugar coating” is my attempt to state my position without creating an enemy. While I truly respect you, I don’t always agree. I can only hope you feel the same towards me.

Sometimes I wonder if you can hear your own voice?

"As an example, I have allowed new hunters to bow hunt our three acres were we live"

"and I know the veteran who received the donated meat is appreciative as well."

"I took a father and his 13-year-old son hunting during youth season on our farm this year."

And then the major flip flops on you statements in the same post

"I think anyone of us trying to push "our" way on anyone else is more damaging to our passion." "First day they had a 6 point one year old come within 40 yards of the blind, and the boy decided it was too small. What a shame"

Then the butt hole comments

"Honestly, how many of us would rather take a monster buck with bragging head gear even though the “take” was a lengthy suffering by a poor hit and only the rack, cape and back straps were salvageable"

HFW how is the Covid situation going? Need more time to study it? LOL

For my son, I always told him to wait for a mature buck. I really thought about that “reasoning” for the past year. Not this year... told him to shoot what makes him happy. I don’t want him to turn into the weirdo his father is. It sure wasn’t how I was raised and I’m not going to beat “huge horns” into his head. Right now, it’s all about the meat/experience... the antlers are just a cool bonus.

How is that a dig? I said I have done the same and I am happier with a 2 year old deer harvested cleanly than a mature deer on my wall that was recovered too late. Think about it. I admitted to doing the same.

Quit being so sensitive Kyle. You constantly berate people who don’t hunt like you think they should, and when someone doesn’t agree with you, this is how you handle it. I stood up for your friend because I know the anguish. I also want to stand up for those who just want to harvest any legal deer with any legal method and encourage them to share.

NCK, I just knew you would show up. You haven’t been here in quite awhile. Yet here you are to attack and dazzle everyone with your self-righteous wisdom. There is more to this story than you being my stalker. You don’t have to read my posts, it really is that simple.

Since you asked, I did get my booster just today. Along with the flu shot. 7 hours later I am feeling ok, and I know that makes you happy;-). Thanks for caring!

The first three seasons in the stands, I followed their teachings. I passed on a bunch of really nice deer waiting for that world class buck of a lifetime to make an appearance. I logged hundreds of hours in the trees, hunting several properties thru the season based on what scouting and time in the tree had proven to be the better places to hunt. By the end of the third season, I was getting frustrated, burnt out sitting in the stand watching deer go by with no meat in the freezer. I was really beginning to question whether or not I was cut out for bowhunting deer. That next year, while dealing with adverse weather, an early cold and ice storm, I made the decision to shoot the first buck that provided me a shot instead of sitting out in the cold waiting for Kong. The very next day I shot my first buck. The next 10-12 years, I became a tag filler hunter, still looking for that trophy buck, but never passing on sure shots at younger, less intelligent bucks. I seldom shoot does with my bow, never 1-2 yr. olds when I have. They are not a challenge, could have filled many a freezer with them. I only kill them now when the property needs less of them around or when they are obviously injured. Does are better eating than bucks, but I leave them alone for the most part. I am back to trophy hunting the mature buck, prefer to spend more time in the woods over filling tags with less wary deer. I do not care if I shoot one or not every year, don't need to sign my tag to have a good season, I don't need to have my ego stroked by filling the most tags, shooting the first, the most, nor the best. How other hunters hunt is their choice to make, not saying my choice is “the only way” by any means.

Cherney, practice your shooting, shoot often, then shoot the first deer you get a good shot opportunity on. Repeat that the next several seasons, you will enjoy it much more once you get a few under your belt, build up your confidence.

He’s used to going home empty handed...from around age 8 to 12 he spent many days in Missouri including 2 very cold late muzzleloader seasons up there and nada. Finally his last time to Missouri he put one on the ground with his gun...I do regret not telling to shoot some of those deer but not too much.

His last deer on the ground for him was in 2017 in Kansas when he shot an old one with his gun when he was 13. Since then he took up bowhunting and hasn’t even drew back on one.

Hope he gets an old one this time as I’m sure he’s very ready himself but if not that’s okay too. I’ve told him multiple times he can shoot what he wants but I’m sure he’s finding other ways while he’s sitting out there to entertain himself or he wouldn’t want to keep going.

I think you can make it too easy for the youngsters sometimes and they don’t fully enjoy what they got, Hasn’t hurt that kid in anyway for that truck bed to be empty on the way home. Give them too much candy when they’re young and you might not like how they turn out later...especially this day in age.

Sounds like I’m going against what Catscratch says but I’m not. Lol we already talked about it....He took his time out one time to have lunch with me and that’s a very good guy...has done a great job with his boys.

Good luck this week and keep me posted. I hope he gets one! I've seen a ton of bucks this week. Let's of young ones running around ignorant. A few mature ones chasing does.

So, where are all the mature deer if everyone is passing up opportunities?

I don’t believe most hunters pass, just most on this site who post. Why is that?

I enjoy the entire experience. Watering the ground with my sweat doing habitat work in the off-season, reaping the rewards of those efforts enjoying venison on the table, the field dressing and dragging the animal while my aging body still allows it, the observations from well placed stands, sharing meat with folks who need it and earned it with their sacrifice to our country…

Posting multiple kills is not about saying “look how much of a man I am” anymore than the guys who limit themselves to taking top tier specimens is. They are both legal, if you enjoy it, do what you want and let no one make you feel inferior for your legal, ethical approach. And if a fellow hunter is satisfied with their legal, ethical manner, help them celebrate and recognize freedom is what allows us to do it differently.

I do like to bow hunt only, and that means to me taking does when opportunities exist throughout the season and not using a rifle in late season to get the job done. But my way is just that, and no more superior to any other legal way.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

Frank's available for a Q&A session after the Convention here. If you notice bleeding from your ears in the midst of his 5hr diatribe of pandering and innuendo don't worry its perfectly normal.

Come on man, that’s exactly the culture here that makes me puke Kyle! A guy feels comfortable enough to post a kill that is not ideal, because it has a big rack and he knows he will be accepted, while multiple folks feel comfortable enough to say they would never kill a 2 year old buck. And why has participation thru the years fallen here. Sure, my long winded diatribes (no apology, it is my personality) have contributed, but so has the judge mental bs from guys like yourself who always want to tell us their way is best.

Big tent my man, let’s both quit discouraging people from voicing a different view than our own, please.

Good luck to you on hunting...that’s a pretty good deer right there and a great pic.

Participation has fallen? This is one of if not the most active state pages on the site Franky

Go stuff your head with turkey and maybe it will quit rattling ;?)

That is not my intent by any means, just the opposite actually.

What Kyle was referring to as “digs” on the BGF refers to my comments regarding other actions I and others feel are also unfair. For example, I agree with the states that have outlawed camera use in season. IMO they do give an unfair advantage.

I also believe compounds are superior to trad equipment (distance capability) as crossbows are to compounds. Thus, IMO I think trying to restrict two weeks of peak rut to trad bows only has some merit. Might help reduce buck mortality as well as hunter numbers and cause a reduction in leasing. The negative might be a significant loss in license revenue? I am only good enough to use a compound and will not try trad again.

And to be fair, I do see a difference in multi-acre plots versus bait piles, but I admit my strong bias with this one. If plots are eliminated I would just work harder at encouraging forbs in our NG by not always spraying the serecia.

Patrick and Kyle, I see just the opposite, conversation is stifled towards those that don’t embrace a certain way. The KS forum is more popular than most, I agree, but the number of participants is down. I accept some of the blame. My style irritates at times, as does a style of smart ass personal attacks when someone voices a contrary opinion. Patrick you responded in a way that is healthy to increase participation, you voiced why you disagreed with me and were mature enough to avoid the personal animosity. I thank you!

Honestly, I think what goes on here is we know this site is monitored and so it is used to send messages to those reading in the background. And anyone voicing an opinion that doesn’t match up with the intended message is not welcome. As an example, it’s hard to keep arguing deer numbers are down when some individuals have been proficient thru the decades. Best to silence those guys right? Make them feel uncomfortable to be here via insults and name calling.

I will continue hunting this season, and if successful will share it here because I don’t hurt easily. And when I express my views, others need to quit playing the victim emotional card…they are just my opinion, not digs! Thanks Patrick.

Patrick won't you be his friend now as he latches on to you? Will anyone be Frank's friend?

Please!

:-)

'Heavily mutated' COVID-19 variant described as 'HORRIFIC,' sparks emergency WHO meeting"

"COVID surge 'almost unmanageable' for Michigan"

"Fully vaccinated rocker diagnosed with COVID 2nd time in month"

New headlines today HFW........your going to need about 15 more booster shots....

The location (Miami county) I received my booster said they hope it would just be once a year, just like the flu shot. This was only my second flu shot ever, but my doc said last year I needed to start doing it every year now because of age.

Right or wrong, I am of the mindset if enough folks would have received this sooner, the virus would have less opportunity to mutate. The news is an argument in support of shots, not against IMO only.

But no, I do not support forced mandates, freedom reigns supreme. Just like I don’t support anti-baiting laws, but don’t support baiting except for some allowances. Thanks again for a civil discussion!