OUTDOORS W.Va. Bowhunters Association raises concern over crossbow harvest figures FacebookTwitterEmailSMS By Chris Lawrence December 1, 2021 - 3:11 pm LOGAN, W.Va. — The President of the West Virginia Bowhunters Association believes there is a storm brewing on over the use of crossbows for deer hunting in West Virginia.
“This is the storm in the distance. It’s sunny now, but we hear the thunder in the distance,” said Rusty Reed.
Reed asked members of the Natural Resources Commission in October to consider requiring a breakout in the DNR’s data. He wants the agency to separate the number of whitetail deer killed in West Virginia with crossbows and those taken by other forms of traditional archery equipment. Currently deer killed with both are lumped into the same figure, although they are not actually the same season.
“Crossbow hunting season is a separate season from traditional archery. However, they are concurrent they go from the beginning of October until the end of the year,” Reed explained.
Crossbows were legalized by the Legislature back in 2015 after years of opposition staged mainly by the Bowhunters Association. Since then, Reed said his organization has posed no formal opposition to using crossbows for hunting in West Virginia.. He indicated crossbows are now considered just another platform for hunting in West Virginia. But, the concern for Reed and the Bowhunters, is the effectiveness of the crossbow, which is starting to be noticed.
“The last four yeas, crossbows have increased the (archery) harvest well above and beyond what we had with traditional archery equipment and we worry in the future this may have a biological impact that will need to be considered by the Commission,” he explained.
Most archery equipment is effective out to about 30 yards, but modern crossbows have the capacity to be accurate out to 100 yards. The efficiency significantly increases a hunter’s odds of success, particularly during the rut when archery season and for now crossbow season, are both underway. Reed’s concern, and that of the Bowhunters Association, is whether the harvest of bucks during the peak of rutting could potentially remove too many bucks from the population and result in a reduction in reproduction.
“Crossbows are very efficient , so their kill is higher each year. At some point the game commission is going to realize, and actually they do already, that this is consumptive,” said Reed.
According to DNR data, the 2020 crossbow/archery harvest was 31,564 deer. The 2019 harvest was 29,508 deer. The 2018 harvest was 26,613 . The harvest in 2017 was 26,206. The bow and crossbow harvest for 2016 was 28,808 and in 2015, the first year crossbows were allowed the harvest was 32,540 deer. Although there was some fluctuation year to year, the crossbows have accounted for a higher average for the overall archery harvest. The 2014 archery harvest, the last year crossbows were illegal ,the archery kill was 21,653.
A press release from the agency in 2016 which accounted for the 2015 data did indicated crossbows in that first year accounted for 37 percent of the total crossbow/archery harvest. Since that time there has been no separation between the two seasons in annual harvest reports.
It still doesn’t change the facts that since 2000 until now the overall archery has went up from the numbers I posted in other thread - the total kill by about 800 or 900 and the buck killed during the 2 seasons by about 1000.
Let the biologist look at those numbers and give us their opinions.
Again it seems simple. I think our biologist are pretty smart at doing this - heck our director called them some of the best in the world!
Geesh seems to me the crossbow is all across the state and not just in the east. Always the jabs have to made and no civil comments can happen. Oh and by the way I still hunt with recurve - always felt it was best to have a crossbow season that was not lumped into bow season for this very reason. If it hadn’t been done this way - crossbows would have been put into archery season and the whole season would need to be adjusted.
Goodness commissioner what are you talking about ? From the very beginning everything that is stated is stuff I have supported. I was for crossbows having their own season - so the season could be adjusted if needed. I fought for an individual crossbow season because of it wasn’t established then they would have been lumped into bow season. And we would have the problem as the states surrounding us as to how to adjust a season for all of archery since crossbow have increased the archery harvest in most.
Now as to rather we have reached the point as to a season needing adjustment- well I think that is up to the DNR to determine.
Seriously am I missing something? Are we in dire doom and gloom with the deer harvest in this state that we need to be thinking about adjusting seasons?
I have not gotten to hunt much this Fall because a huge work project - I have went out like 3 times and have seen a number of deer many being bucks. Am I just fortunate as to what I am seeing or is the state’s deer herd in that bad of condition?
Are any of the biologist part of the deer team? I will jump on the bandwagon with them and you when some substantial data is presented.
So tell me if I am wrong in saying this - you have expressed concern over the late doe season and heritage seasons because of those bucks that have lost their antlers before those seasons take place could be shot.
Now there is concern for the harvest of both bucks and does that take place before breeding season.
I think I am correct on this - tell me if I am wrong please….
It is totally fine to be concerned about possible issues during the beginning of season and the later part. That would be Greg's job and the job of responsible sportsmen.
Is that how you want the Commission to function?
Did I say you were wrong for having them but the way we learn is by asking questions and trying to find out the answer.
Greg everyone time someone ask you about these concerns - well I hate to say it - it’s like they have committed the ultimate sin. You keep everything hushed and no one can learn anything. Sorry but we are not dealing with national security issues here.
Seriously Jeremy you think that is unacceptable? Wow just Wow.
So Greg - please tell me what I have done now to offend you and I will try to change whatever I have done. Again show me some data or results that are leading you and these others to assume this may be happening and if our biologist confirm and say change to seasons or limits need to happen - I will stand behind that 100 percent! Just don't expect me to fall in head over hills on some peoples perception of what is happening.
Now when I have concerns it is because of reason. If I have concerns about my health - its because i am in afib, have slightly high blood pressure or over weight. There are normally reasons for concerns - I just wanted to know what those reasons are that these people or you are having the concern that too many bucks are being killed before breeding. Please tell me what the problem is with that?
I have not twisted a darn thing !
Fairly simple, archery is on track, largely due to crossbows and liberal limits, to be the main method of harvesting deer.
Our gun season is set up to happen after majority of breeding. Our bow season is not. Therefore, when the bulk of harvest shifts from after the rut to before we could have an issue.
As far as waiting for biologist to say we have a problem and them being the end all day all. We had 20 years of deer density above carrying capacity. Sportsmen, albeit a nonvocal minority, got turkey season dates changed. Sportsmen got elk reintroduced when biologist said it was a bad idea. I can go on.
This isn't for twisting or inferring what anyone wants me to be saying.
The above is incorrect because I read someone’s statement incorrectly. I believe he meant to say that archery season is on track to become the main method of harvesting deer in WV. My bad. Even though I read his statement incorrectly - I think his statement is completely wrong because crossbows are a separate season from archery.
I think you are right somewhat on the rifle harvest except for when those year when rifle season and Thanksgiving are earlier with the way the calendar falls.
The other parts are your opinion and just like everyone else you are entitled to yours.
You take part of a sentence then derive it somehow into something completely different than what the sentence says than if you would read the whole sentence in context how it it written. That’s not how written communication works. If you can’t understand that well, I’m at a loss.
Let's break it down via one sentence.
Fairly simple, archery is on track, largely due to crossbows and liberal limits, to be the main method of harvesting deer. Archery is in track TO BE THE MAIN METHOD OF HARVESTING DEER. That is what I said. Once again, you took off on a tangent bent to meet your criteria needed to disagree.
It's 100% twisting what was said. Again.
Truthfully I would of made it a little easier to understand and say something like - archery is on track to be the main method of harvesting deer, largely due to crossbows. Is this what you are trying to say?
Again there is a flaw there because even though crossbow harvest has been added into archery harvest numbers when tallying at the end of the year - crossbow is a separate season from archery season. So maybe I did misread your statement - I would disagree that your statement is very accurate.
About as accurate as saying “legally, they are a part of bow season”. Right commissioner?
The one thing I agree with Rusty is they need to keep the numbers separate since they are separate seasons. It would be like adding muzzleloader harvest numbers with archery season.
Heck I think I did with Cory’s statement - hey I rushed reading it in my phone without glasses - my fault - even if in my opinion his statement could have maybe be formed a little better and I think not very accurate. Again my bad.
Again how did I twist your words?
I had never given it any thought, but after hearing it, I agree it’s something that should be watched so corrections can be made before it’s too late IF the DNR does see a problem.
Please don’t assume by my thoughts I am “in a certain crowd” either. I am not on social media at all. Bowsite is as close as I get, so I know nothing outside of what is posted here about any “groups”. I rarely kill 2 bucks, let alone 3. However, I like the opportunities we have with our current limits. If the DNR deems it beneficial to reduce the buck limit then I will abide by the new regulations and continue to enjoy the outdoors.
Then it got into a battle of saying words were twisted but that is normally what happens here when a simple question of show me some data on the subject. Every time I was told I was twisting words I just tried to ask the question differently.
Certain people here like to really stretch things to try to prove their points - one of my favorites is:
“There were 38785 killed by guns and the archery/crossbow harvest was 31564 and is buck heavy. “
Is it truthful -yes - but why compare just the bucks killed by guns and the total deer harvest with bows and crossbow? People look at the two numbers 38785 and 31564 and think wow that is really close!
Why not say the buck gun harvest was 38785 and the archery/crossbow buck harvest was 19413?
Or say the total deer harvest with guns was 70040 and with bow and crossbow was 31564?
I am sorry but I want to see facts or data and not things run on perception of something.
I could have said 100 things in 100 different ways but the bottom line is I was truthful about it and right about it. But I should have realized that wasn’t good enough for you and your standards. My apologies!! I’ll make sure I’ll take my file cases with me everywhere I go in case I want to post something.
Sorry I just found it strange that you compared the gun buck harvest to the total deer bow/crossbow harvest. Guess I am missing the importance of comparing those 2 - glad though that 1buck gets your reasoning! LOL
Impressive that you could remember those two numbers exactly and didn’t know the other numbers - sorry you didn’t have the info with you.
Hey I will give you an A+ on your math skills - but I don’t think I disagreed with it being buck heavy just the 2 numbers you used to make a point.
So as to the bucks less than 3 inches, buttons and bucks that had shed - since you brought them up - do they all go to just one season or are they spread out among gun, crossbow, archery and antlerless?
And why would it be so strange for a season other than antlerless to be buck heavy?
So that 70 doe per 100 bucks to keep the population stable - do you think that is a correct plan or not?
1buck enjoyed your input there.
Your assumption Is wrong so no need for the further questions.
No. The WVBA is concerned mainly with two things. First: To manage the resource and then, to represent its members interests. Imagine that... a "bowhunters" organization representing BOWHUNTERS, not rifle hunters, not crossbow hunters nor fishermen. You surely wouldn't question the mission of the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation or the National Wild Turkey Federation, WV Bear Hunters Assoc, or Trout Unlimited, would you? Especially since proper management of the resource benefits all hunters... regardless of method they choose to use. Just because these organizations have specific interests of like-minded people doesn't mean they're "jealous" of anyone else.
Here is the mission statement of the WVBA, copied from the front page of its website:
“The WVBA strives to protect bowhunting in West Virginia against anti-hunting groups through legislation and to protect our wildlife resources. The WVBA promotes ethical bowhunting and the education of bowhunters in safety, skills and techniques, and educates the non-hunting public so they have a better understanding of its principles.”
That is funny Hoppies! I think I agree with what you are trying to say there as well. Although I do agree with the WVBA about keeping the numbers separate - they are separate seasons. I don’t know if I would of went any further than asking to keep the harvest separate and maybe not talk about the distance rumblings of thunder. Just yet. Let’s let our biologist tell us if they see a issue developing- I hope this doesn’t turn people away from the WVBA - I have seen where some are talking about not renewing their memberships.
Heck wouldn’t even need to pose a fine - if during one of the later doe seasons someone who has reached their limit on bucks - shoots a button buck add it towards their buck limit on the next year. Hopefully it would help in reducing the number of button bucks killed.
JayD's Link
Way to offer some irrelevant advice.
