""Dear Fred
Regarding your question about a proposed season for flintlock muzzle-loaders. Okay, I think it’s a great idea – now I have a reason to buy a custom flintlock from Hunter’s Rendezvous in Pepperell, MA. (A great toy store if you find yourself in the area.) But let’s not stop there. How about a special season for archers who hunt with recurves and longbows only? And maybe a season for guys who hunt with smoothbore shotguns and buckshot? No scopes, no rifled barrels, no slugs. And maybe we could set aside part of the upland bird season for side-by-side shotguns only.
What about fishing? Let’s set aside one week for guys who use bamboo fly rods. And one week for bass anglers who use nothing but surface plugs. Maybe a separate season for trolling only.
Do you see where this leads? We’re all sportsmen first, and we fragment our ranks at our peril. We’ve worked long and hard to get healthy game populations, longer seasons, and more liberal bag limits. If we start acting like a bunch of special interest groups, instead of presenting a united front, we’ll get eaten alive. If somebody really wants to hunt a flintlock-only season, by all means let them do so – give ‘em a road map to Pennsylvania.
Yours Dana L. Charbonneau ""
"Cross bow's exist, ergo, they should be allowed for use during archery season by anyone who wants to use one."
To be crystal, my stance is that I generally like the current rule, though I wish a person who got over an injury or physical issue could return to the vert bow, and I'd be fine with Xbow's used as a "lesser weapon" during shot gun or muzzle loader.
I may be interpreting your last comment aimed at my message incorrectly. It feels like a red herring - the attempted linking between my strategy and other entirely unrelated issues certainly does at least. Perhaps more of a false choice, given there are many possible and reasonable laws relative to xbow inclusion during hunting seasons. So I'm just going to skip that, because I don't really think that's the debate point... though I do think your comparison of getting to hunt with an xbow during bow season to say european freedom or workplace equality show's the challenge of complex issues - a simple "yea" or "nea" doesnt really work. Those are huge questions, and each comes with limits. Even freedom. Freedom with no limits is immaturity, for example. That's a whole different direction I'm not trying to go, I'm just seeing a "shiny object" with those "whataboutisms" and running with it... Back on track.
If hunting season is solely about the highest odds of the most deer being killed as ethically as possible, then we should ditch any form of archery hunting and just extend firearms season (extreme example of slippery slope here solely for example sake). We limit range and have higher wounding odds with a bow, thus it's less effective. Plus, some folks may have injuries which prevent them from drawing a bow. Why should a medical provider need to use time and expertise to determine if they need a crossbow, and deal with all that, when we could just do a longer gun season, thus allowing the most efficient deer management and all comers getting the full season? Hey, some folks have hand/wrist injuries and couldnt crank an xbow's draw crank, so only electric ones should be allowed for full inclusion... (Wow, this Will being a dink to create an example thing is actually becoming sorta fun)
Limits or constraints are needed for certain situations and carrots for others. The forms those take are really wide ranging pending many variables.
I think your rationale then extends to the kill and hunter numbers not seeming to change to much in states with xbows put into general archery seasons, thus it's fine, and they should be included here too. Reasonable point, and I dont totally disagree. I dont disagree with the stat's at all - though my review of them last week suggested most of the data is old, and a good analysis would be really helpful.
Xbow's are functionally different at the most important moment of the hunt - per my definition. This is a philosophical point as much as a mechanical one. The bow hunter has to draw in the presence of game. To me, that's the defining difference between the two methods. I think from past discussions, for you, either a string and arrow like implement is the defining issue of "archery" hunting or it does not matter - in which case I think it's a worm hole that ends in all weapons legal all the time with either a quota system or a lower number of antlerless and antlered tags given likely higher hunter success.
My long winded point, is that there are situations that make hunting with a given weapon a bit different - some are experiential, some are functional. I dont believe my "answer" is correct. There are other perfectly valid approaches to crossbow inclusion, some of which are the ones you have presented. I just believe that the rule works, and with a few tweaks, the rule works even better... Again, what I believe to be a defining difference between hunting with a bow v xbow, leads me to believe the best option is to fit the xbow into gun seasons OR via special permit during archery if one can not draw a conventional bow (as diagnosed by a medical professional - MD, PA, NP would suffice for me).
I'm not saying you are wrong or that your idea's on this dont work. They certainly could/would. I just feel other strategies are better.
As I noted in the other thread though... Within 10 years we will get to reflect on this with real local data. There is no way they are not legalized. MDFW would be very open to it I think, and based on seeing some of the work for the Outdoor Heritage act a few years ago and a few other outdoor omnibus bills that seem to have trickled to a halt lately, Xbow legalization is more likely to happen than hunting on Sundays...
When it does, Ill get used to it. And if I take a digger on my mountain bike in 2 months and destroy my shoulder such that archery is a thing of the past for me... yeah, Ill line up, get a permit and xbow hunt...
Ouchie.
I'm pretty good with that stick ML in the middle with xbow season. I could get on board with that. So long as injured folks could still get a permit to use em during archery. Easy peasy lemon squeezy.
Bill, "We are gonna run the rock down your throat."
Buffalo, "we will stack 11 men in the box to stop you"
Bill, "We don't care, Bring it, you cannot stop us, we will just smash through all 11 of your faces"
We did the same thing with our 8th grade team to our biggest rival on one drive. Super cocky team with ahole coaches. They ran through a banner at the start of the game that said. "you think you can beat us? That is fantasy football!!!"
We ran power right 15 plays in a row for 70 yards and a TD. Here you go, you know exactly what we are running, stop it. Line up an stop us if you can. Try it again. Try it again. Try it again. Try it again. Try it again. Try it again. Try it again. Try it again. Try it again. Try it again. Try it again. Try it again. Try it again. Try it again.
You cannot. You lose.
Mission complete. That team was broken after that and in tears. No one had done that to them and we proceeded to march all over them.
Sometimes you have to put someone into their place.
Current archery season is is with the special permit for xbow as needed by doc's note.
ML/xbow season Monday after Thanksgiving for 3 weeks.
Shotgun from the last day of that season until Dec 31.
(or just leave it as is, but make xbow ok as a "lesser weapon" during all firearms seasons and special permit during bow... Allow injured hunters to return to a vert bow if their health allows.)
I like the last option best - though it's almost the same...
