Contributors to this thread:
Did not draw my first choice limited draw archery license, but now I see there are 24 left over secondary draw licenses for the same unit, available after the first choice draw. And I bet they will all go to Youth who have 100% preference for the secondary draw licenses.
I had similar results in a different unit. I wish they would just do a secondary draw using unsuccessful 1st draw participants for the unit.
A definite flaw in the how the system works.
So guessing 24 people did not pay for their tag or turn them back in or both.
Yeah those dang youth that get so many tags.
I fell for the secondary draw last year. I drew my tag so no worries on it this year.
If you have youth at home who hunt, you're of course gonna be gangbusters all for it. What a fabulous gift for them, since all 4 youth choices are filled before any others are considered. By contrast, if you missed out on your first choice like Paul and see a bunch of re-issues in the secondary that you have virtually zero chance to get, you can't help but wonder about the system.
Youth, like all other residents and non-residents, can already hunt every year, via draws and OTC hunts, multiple options amongst 6 of Colorado's species of big game.....pronghorn, mule deer, whitetail, elk, bear and lion. There's ample opportunity for both youths and adults to hunt, even without segregating a group for special treatment on high-demand tags.
Same happen to me last year. I am not a fan of this new system!
My daughter is 19 and off to college so I've got no skin in the game. I can't get upset about kids getting more tags, especially in a secondary drawing. Not a lot of good tags with zero, one, or two points. It is tough to find opportunity for kids to have quality hunt in CO. If a parent can pick up a decent tag and take their kid hunting that is a good thing during those few years when a kids is old enough to go hunting but not to old be wrapped up in sports, girls, trucks, ect. I like this it IMO it is one of the things CPW has got right.
Last year 62% of the secondary draw tags went to NonRes youth
Would much rather see them go to Resident youth
"Last year 62% of the secondary draw tags went to NonRes youth"
No biggie, but just wanted to point out that the report shows 62% draw success for NR youth. For actual drawing of tags, resident youth drew more than three times as many as NR youth did (1041 vs 299).
I have a 15 year old who I need to find a tag for because we missed a high percentage draw. So this rule benefits us but is flawed on my opinion.
Giving youth an advantage for tags that were unwanted in the first draw is great. Paul's target tag wasn't unwanted as a first choice. He applied for it first choice.
Haven't followed "youth preference" a whole lot, but it is rare any regulatory governing body would vote against it. Put it on the agenda, it will pass.
Used to be back in the day youth preference was for cow and doe only tags. That idea made sense to me, but morphed somehow.
Youth preference, vet preference, preference points, landowner preference - not sure what is next, I suspect it is coming. I doubt it will be preference for old white guys with failing knees and backs who have paid to support conservation for decades. We have lost equality to preference. I would prefer a dedicated hunter preference myself, but wouldn't that be selfish...
Just go back to paying full tag price at time of application. I don't pay a lot of attention to the numbers, but it seems to me that app numbers jumped tremendously when they went to just an application fee. And as a result, the number of tags showing up as available later...after non-payment, etc... increased as well.
How about allowing preference for 100% rated Disabled Veterans?
Yes I know I'm being selfish for wanting a preference too ;-)
Is it really low odds for the secondary even if there were several (say 30'ish) tags in your unit of choice? I figured I'd get it.... But now I'm rethinking that.
Youth get preference for all choices before whatever is left goes to everyone else. If the tag you want is either sex or buck/bull, you likely just donated some app fees. Take a look at the second draw post draw results to give you an idea.
One of the few CPW policies I'm completely on board with is giving youth preference in the secondary. Who gets upset about kids getting a chance to hunt? I would think not allowing people to get their money or points back would be a better solution to the problem at hand. Since a kid getting into the game now will literally never have a chance at any "primo" unit (2,76,etc.) it just seems fair to give them a chance at least once. That being said I'm a bit bias as my nephew drew a pretty good elk tag in the secondary last year.
Tags like 2 or 76 get offered to the next 5 in line from the initial draw before they are up for grabs.
With the woke politics of CO, I guess we can all be happy that it's youth being given preference, as opposed to say, "under-served" groups.
Just a question to clarify about the 2nd draw. Do your existing points get wiped out to zero if you draw a tag? The web page says "You cannot use pref points" but thats not clear to me about whether they reset to zero if successful.
You PP are NOT used in the secondary draw. What ever PP you may have accumulated, that number stays constant.
The left over draw system is basically a $7 donation, unless you're in the youth category. I'm not a fan.
“The web page says "You cannot use pref points" but thats not clear to me about whether they reset to zero if successful.”
How could you possibly reset points to zero and at the same time “not use preference points”?
That said unless there are a lot of tags available it is a fools errand to apply given youth preference. I am just such a fool, as I mode the $7 donation with no real chance to draw. LOL
Fool? Me too. But then I have a dream!
with 24 tags available it is worth trying.
Glancing at last year's 2nd draw stats for that hunt....there were 310 first choice adult apps for 10 licenses. The 13 youth who applied first choice drew all ten. Just 4 other youth apps at the lower choices. If youth apps would happen to be about the same this year, there'd be some remaining for the adults @ long odds.
They need to give preference to the older hunters. We ain't got that much time left. Put in my 9.00 but should of bought beer.
Bent you had your whole life to hunt, without the crowds, give the kids a chance to fall in love with the lifestyle. Lot of “me” mentality out of the same generation that “pulled themselves up by the bootstraps”
As suggested elsewhere, "the kids" won't have point creep to contend with once all the old timers drop out. I never pulled up my bootstraps, but do prefer to tell it as I see it. Preference is discrimination against someone.
"Preference is discrimination against someone."
Bingo!!!
Good luck to the Youths
Im in for a couple tags that are pretty much guaranteed.
Grasshopper the idea that "boomers" aging out will decrease point is not supported by the numbers. Even if you get rid of all the top point holder there's twice as many guys below them with one below max and twice as many below them with 2 less and so on and so on. This will literally be the only chance these kids have at drawing certain units. The same units that most of you old timers hunted or had a chance to hunt multiple times. Bunch of old grumps plotting the best way to steal a babies candy.
Wait until second draw is done, and there are still tags available. Then you will really be pissed. That happen to my unit last year.
Something ia amiss with the draw for sure this year. My buddy was going to put in for an antelope tag with my group. His family wanted to go to a different unit. He changed his app before the deadline to a RFW as the group leader with his family. He sent a screenshot of the change to his family so they had the group leader number and unit. Draw happened & they all got the email they drew the RFW tags with their 5 preference points. Curious, I looked at the draw stats to see how many tags they had for that RFW unit they applied for & noticed that the unit had 12 tags & the top application for the unit was two people with 4 points. I mentioned this to him & low & behold he checked their licences, now their entire group of 5 people show they have tags for the unit he originally had applied for. How do you get an email confirming you drew your 1st choice license, then it magically changes to a different unit? When he called them, they said that was weird & had never seen anything like that. I don't think anything has been straightened out as of yet. You would figure for your $7 application fee, they could get things right.
Hopefully the youth preference will pay off with youth recruitment after they turn 18. So far the statistics don't prove that out. At Sportsman's Roundtable meeting a CPW speaker told us they have basically given up on that, and instead are targeting 30-somethings who may have hunted as teens, or the new breed of locavores who want to gather their own organic meat.
But the youth preference system shows they haven't given up completely.
No youth hunting opportunity????
Not only can youth hunt all OTC units but "a minimum of 15 % of limited license for doe pronghorn, antlerless and either-sex deer and antlerless elk, for each GMU shall be available for youth, ages 12-17. These licenses are available by draw for all seasons and methods of take including early and late rifle seasons.
Also, Youth extended Season: Youth may pursue antlerless deer and elk during any rifle season open to antlerless hunts in valid GMUS as well as hunt pronghorn does during Dec. and the season that runs until Jan 31 in GMU 9 and 191.
I'm trying to recruit in my little world. My son loves to hunt and he has friend group that is taking to it as well. I'm not the biggest fan of freezing my tail off midwinter at 5 AM but waterfowl is a favorite and working on expanding on to turkey and big game with a couple of his buddies. A few will get their drivers license by this Fall and they are all excited to be able to hit the duck spots on their own. Birthday and Christmas wish lists are full of shotguns, ammo, decoys, waders and calls. When I was their age it seemed like almost all the guys in my school hunted.
That's outstanding Glunt. Great picture!
Yep, these darn kids you need to let it go Paul your coming off as a senile old entitled grouch