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Check out this velvet buck

One of several similar bucks on my property in Ohio.

After 3000 pics from my NY property in 6k I have one spike.

I’ve decided that NY deer bowhunting in the northern zone is all but pointless. I’m managing my property for turkeys and bears now. I’m throwing in the towel.

Hopefully you guys in the southern zone have better luck.

Pat, the body on that brute is almost as impressive as the antlers. Here in 7M we have been seeing many more 2 1/2 & 3 1/2 yo bucks the last few years but nothing like that. Hunter numbers and hunter days afield is pretty much crashing around here. Problem we have is poachers and that group driving buggies.

I feel your pain. If deep snow comes before gun season closes, , many of the mature bucks in your area of 6K are killed the last week of gun season , on the bait piles. Ruts about over ,snow on the ground, and big bucks are hungry, and readily come to bait piles. Same reason I pleaded with DEC biologists the need for boundary changes in western 6K, to protect antlerless deer from 6N from being killed on their way to wintering yards in 6K.

Squash, I have long suspected that many of my neighbors are baiting. No way to prove it and IMO the bigger problem is the long gun season than illegal baiting. NY Deer hunting could really be great, if the DEC cared enough to put regulations in place that actually manage the herd. None of it will matter, however, if wolves get a foothold.

We do pretty well in the southern zone in the bow only area. Some good ones killed with the guns too as some counties have adopted a 3 point to a side rule. If NY had a 10 day gun season after Nov 20th lets say it would help tremendously!! Our DEC sucks at managing anything!! Shawn

10 day NZ gun season is a pipe dream, and is not the answer.

Got to agree with Squash. As the holiday mz season last year proves, if anything seasons will be extended. Follow the money.

Ya DEC on top of their game. Areas hit hard by EHD 2 years ago and they up DMP in those areas. I agree with Ralph , follow the money.

So what is the answer Squash, keep gun season staring right as the rut starts and running it til Christmas?? Sorry I would be fine if they banned gun hunting!! Shawn

Shawn, I get the notion you have never hunted the NZ ? I do not hunt the SZ. I hunt the wilderness areas of the Adirondacks and the Tug Hill Plateau where there is little hunting pressure and not much drama except from DEC rangers harassing us, but that’s another long story. As a bow hunter and gun hunter, I would never agree to a 10 day gun season in the current WMU’s in the NZ the way they are defined now. I believe the only solution to improving buck age classes in NY’s NZ , is changing certain regulations in WMU, such as boundaries , point restrictions, and possibly season length in some, but that is a pipe dream as well. The DEC is not concerned about managing for mature bucks with large antlers. My hunting lodge is in WMU 6N, and the DEC has NO management objective for that unit. Kind of says it all. I have given up on trying to change hearts and minds about deer management in NY. I now just go out, work hard to find a mature buck, and enjoy myself.

Not saying the DEC is blameless, but just look at the political structure pulling the strings. I think the NYS Rifle & Pistol Assn SCOTUS decision and then the governor and legislative response should tell you what they think of the shooting sports. I would be thrilled if the biggest problem here in NYS was the deer season.

"I would be thrilled if the biggest problem here in NYS was the deer season" .... for real.

As is pertains to your land and deer Pat, why not sell it and scoop up some smaller acreage in WNY? It's night and day better in WNY than Oneida county, for deer anyways. Turkeys you can forget about out here. Small pockets here and there... no widespread or even distribution. My viewpoint might be a little unrealistic since I have access to a lot of cropland out here, but generally speaking I don't think its overly difficult to find good (P&Y type) bucks in WNY. The key IMO would be to find a property that is proximal to a sanctuary type area and Ag. Or maybe finding a property that serves as the only cover surrounded by open Ag. Transition areas bordering suburbia for example. A situation like that would allow you to be selective and possibly even see bucks make it that don't meet your goals.

The funny thing is the definition if the northern zone. I have hunted the northern zone in several spots!! You cannot compare Fulton and Herkimer County to Lewis and Hamilton county. My point is whatever county you hunt in regardless of Northern or Southern Zone the gun season is way too long. Its flat out stupid to have guns seasons that last 30 days or more. Shawn

Yes, “for real”. I live here and have to deal with all the problems caused by Albany and NYC 365 days a year. As much as I love deer hunting, it’s only a couple month problem and like Pat I can always travel to Ohio or another state a couple weeks a year.

2021 harvest stats, Adult males, Lewis County 2324, Hamilton. 786, Fulton. 770, Herkimer. 1712 half of this county in SZ.

10 day gun season in Hamilton or Lewis Counties, you are correct harvest success would drop drastically, but so would Hunter participation, and the DEC wants no part of that.

Shawler you must have misinterpreted that. I was agreeing with you!

Quality of deer hunting is nowhere near our biggest problem as NYS residents.

But anywho... thats what this thread was about.

Sorry saddle, one of the things I miss about these conversations around a real campfire is the human element of chewing the fat.

SaddleReaper, in all honesty if I sell my land, NY is the last place I would buy into again. I have 312 acres and a house in 6K and to find anything equivalent to that in Western NY would be ridiculously expensive and I'd still be frustrated - even though the deer hunting is better there. If I ever sell, I'm gone for good.

Squash, I agree with you. The big woods of the Adirondacks is entirely appropriate for a long gun season, however even then it's too long IMO. Unfortunately, DEC has lots of transitional areas like 6N, 6K classified as NZ and the deer get pounded by the long gun season.

I disagree with saddlereaper, however about the problem being Albany and not the DEC. I spoke with the DEC personally, both Jeremy and the Fubearer guy, and they had zero interest in listening to alternative viewpoints or changes in direction. 'Their way or the highway.' I have spoken to biologists in several states including Ohio, CT, Mass, and all were open minded and interested in hearing from Hunters - especially guys that live and breath deer management like me and watch deer trends, age classes, predation etc as close as I do. NY biologists were totally disinterested. Complete turn off. So while I agree the political climate in NY is probably the worst in the country, the DEC people I met seemed to embrace the suck.

Pat, even though the deer hunting at your NY property isn’t what you wish it was, I’ll bet it’s still been a good financial investment ? I think that’s how you should look at it, and enjoy the turkey hunting, and make the best of the deer hunting.

Squash, no doubt. We really do love that property. Just frustrated because that area of NY can have some great bucks - if it were only managed right. Appreciate the perspective

DEC has never been interested in deer management. They are interested in selling as many licenses as possible and killing as many deer as possible.

Pat, the DEC is like 2 different agencies. Like I said I worked there for 32 years( not in Wildlife) but the Regional people who actually are out in the field doing the work are pretty much treated the same way or worse as the public . The policy maker’s in Central Office(Albany) either buy in to the anti sportsman political climate here or are not in a position of power. All major decisions must get approval from the governor’s office. So you get either veterans that like you said “ embrace the suck” until retirement or the younger generation that only care about climate change and environmental justice. I have been gone for 10 years but there were some very good field biologists and technicians in the Regional Office that were ignored just like the rest of us.

And you are right about the NZ and 6K. I use to have access to 175 acres near the Steuben Monument in the 90’s until the old guys sold the land. I hunt and live here and 7M and that area was very similar and I saw more deer there than down here. Most of the guys I know that hunt what I call the “real Adirondacks “ don’t hunt until later in the season when there is snow and like to wait until “ the yayhoos go south to hunt”. Among the many changes that are needed is that the WMU’s need to be changed and managed more based on their ecology and geography.

I loved my 28 acres at the foothills of the adirondacks. I was a lifelong NYer. I had 20 acres of timer behind my 8 acre horsefarm. Although was ag taxed, I couldnt work enough hours to barely get taxes paid n survive as a farmer. Then the NY gestapo laws, and the clinker that made me leave, was the horrible management of the deer herd. Southern zone with the long bow seemed fine to me. I was right over the northern zone line. Rifle hunters trespassing, shooting into my property , (from posted properties) while I was bowhunting, way, way too long a rifle season, biggest coywolves anywhere to be found, gunshots all winter in the depths of night on lands posted around me.. They used to think I was lying about the wolves I seen, now you can see it was fact. Crazy neighbors feeding these 85lb things bags of dogfood a week with no penalties, poachers, trespassers, even guys selling the deer they poached so downstaters can lie to their wives they were deer hunting not entertaining prostitutes? I couldnt take it anymore. Its a shame what has happened to such a beautiful area. I have my lifetime now, and was going to try westen NY this bow season, if EHD draws a line somewhere in the middle of the state, Im praying.

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