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3000 acres, only one doe killed

I was up at my NY place this past weekend to get some pre-winter chores done. I never deer hunted once on my 320 the entire season. Pulled all my cams and had two bucks. A forky that has been living there all year, and a spindly 2.5 year old 7 that I would never shoot. That's it in 18k photos.

I visited with all my surrounding landowners. On Sunday, one of them shot a doe for meat the last day of NZ deer. Some hunted hard for a buck but couldn't find one. Most gave up by mid November. Everyone agrees something killed off the deer up there. It's never been great deer hunting there, but they've never seen it this bad. On an average year, 10 bucks are killed on the 3000 combined acres. This year, zero. And I don't believe they are lying either. I know these landowner neighbors and they all tell me when they shoot a buck.

Crazy.

EHD? Hit in other areas of NY.

That’s crazy! Opening weekend 6 of us hunting am&pm only 2 spikes were seen. Very few hunters in the area almost like they got the memo that there are no deer around. I spoke to a local homeowner and she said they used to have 25-30 deer at night in the meadow and now maybe 2 or 3. This is chenango county

What did you have 18K photos of? Turkeys bears and squirrels?

Any does?

I'm running 30 cameras. I typically get 75k photos in NY. Mostly same deer over and over again in food plots. One fawn can generate 40 photos a night depending on cam settings. It's not scientific. But I do keep my cams set on 3-burst and 30 seconds so I don't miss anything. The info is in the reduction. Same number of cams, and I went from 75k to 18k this season with only those two immature bucks.

At my Ohio farm I'll surpass 200k photos this year. I'm currently at over 40 different bucks on my 130 acres, with 7 shooters that are 4+ ranging from 130-170. 5 of my 7 shooters were captured last night by cell cam and yesterday was the last day of Rifle. One killed by the neighbor and another that hasn't been seen since 11/18 but not presumed dead because he's a giant and everyone would be talking about it.

It's another world there in Ohio. The contrast between the two nearby states could not be more depressing.

Gotcha. I understand its not an exact science, but assuming *roughly* the same food availability, camera count, and zero hunter pressure etc., dropping from 75K to 18K is pretty telling. That's a huge decrease. Did you or your neighbors ever have reason to believe EHD made it's way to your area? I know it was spotty around CNY the summer prior.

Hopefully Ohio at least treats you well. Any bucks yet this year for you or your son?

Pat you said "On an average year, 10 bucks are killed on the 3000 combined acres. This year, zero. And I don't believe they are lying either. I know these landowner neighbors and they all tell me when they shoot a buck." It sounds like your neighbors are not shooting them and they are not giving hunting permision to others, right? 3000 acres only produces 1 doe and 2 substandard bucks seen. If people do not have access and your neighbors are telling the truth then one would hve to ssume th two buck limit and long season has nor bearing on the results you are reporting. What is going on?

Petcontain, my beef with the two buck limit is that it’s unnecessary and foolish when you have such a low deer population like we have in the NZ.

But I don’t think that’s directly related to whatever is going on in our area. I really don’t know what’s happening but I don’t think it’s EHD. My first guess is late spring snowfall took out far more yarded deer than we realized followed by an explosion in fawn predation by bears and coyotes.

All I know is a competent deer program biologist would adjust season dates and entertain more extreme measures like closures or shortened seasons but I expect none of that will happen.

SaddleReaper, no ohio buck yet. I have 5 bucks on my list and I’m headed back Friday hoping one makes a mistake in the late season.

Pat do you drive or fly to NY , PA , Ohio from CT ? you are putting a good amount of time in , nothing better than sitting a tree and watching the deer , expect maybe being on the water fishing ,congrats on your deer love reading the stories and hunts and harvest's.

Must be your area;we have tons of deer;we shot three bucks on 100 acres and we are selective.Maybe 20 with-in a two mile radius that I heard of.I saw "horns" 11 times before I shot a 160# eight point.Didn't count them but had to have seen 100+does,fawns. This is Northern St.Lawrence co.;parts of the county were hit with EHD and deer numbers there are way down.Everyone in our small group saw bucks,passed the little ones.

Being objective, there was no significant EHD kill reported in Oneida County in 2021 or 2022. The 2022 winter in that area was not harsh by any accounts. Any losses from EHD or winterkill should be evident by finding skulls and maybe other bones in quantity. Fawn predation by bears/coyotes/bobcats may account for some reduction, but why would it be any worse this year than others? If there is truly less deer, the most likely culprit is that the food sources have been depleted or someone nearby has better bait/food plots than you and your adjoining landowners.

You can't compare the ADK'S with Ohio. Western NY maybe. If the state were to limit hunters to one buck, do you think it would help your area? I doubt it. The state needs to do better forest management in the ADK's. There is nothing for the deer to eat, period.

I hunt Chenango County. The deer numbers are still good, but we have a coyote problem. During bow season I saw 12 deer. At the same time, I saw 12 coyotes. 4 of them running together.

My ground not in the Adirondacks.

Pat, very familiar with your area as I used to hunt a farm near the Steuben monument back in the 90’s. Last winter was if anything, milder than average. Do you have any Amish neighbors. Not exclusively blaming one group as poachers come in all shapes and sizes, but down here in Chenango, Otsego and Madison county that group totally ignores all game laws. What you describe sounds like some severe 2 and/or 4 legged poaching . That said, my camera numbers also were severely down even though our deer numbers are pretty much stable. I think the extremely warm early Fall was part of that.

Nearest Amish is 15 miles .

We have had mild winters but we have had spring snows with heavy crusting. I remember having a hell of a time getting to my coyote cabin in late March before the coyote season closed.

I’m glad to hear others not experiencing the downturn like our area is. Hopefully just a 2-3 year thing that reverses and gets back to normal - which was never great - but far better than what it is now.

Pat sounds like you have the deer all set in Ohio so forget about them in NY and plant more corn for the bears and something for the turkeys. You may also want to trap the turkey nest robbers like raccoons and possums. Sounds like a nice hobby when you retire!

Oh it just dawned on me what do you have for forest land around your fields and plots? Seems if the deer all of a sudden vanished it could be a maturing forest and less browse and edges? Here in MA our deer population sucks mainly due to the habitat being mature forest with no understory, no AG, no browse, ton of pines. People always seem to blame it on the predators but with good habitat deer and other animals like rabbits thrive. MA is so bad with habitat literally you won’t see a single rabbit in the woods just around the houses. Getting that way with deer as well.

Been watching 2 different doe in heat on different properties, not one buck trailing or even near these spots... I have serious concerns about the rate of fawns being dropped this spring.

Here in NE Chenango County we have been seeing many yearlings. Not many 1 1/2 bucks but quite a few 2 1/2. As far as Pat’s situation I don’t think habitat conditions would lead to such a fast and dramatic change. Sounds to me that a 2 or 4 legged poacher may be in the area.

2 bucks on camera is tough to swallow.

I am in 6K but the opposite end in SE Oswego county. Less snow but no shortage of hunters and plenty of tresspassing and poaching here. I tracked one guy over a mile after getting him on a cell cam. He got dropped off 1 road over, then he hunted across 4 pieces of property and got picked up on the next road. Clever SOB.

All that being said, I had 2 bucks on camera last week after 7 weeks of gun season! Last night I saw a nice buck (3 year old) chasing a doe just down the road.

So if your issue was poaching they would have to be pretty damn incredible hunters to make that big of an impact.

It’s definitely not poaching. Or trespassing. Only 1 trespasser in 11 years and it was my neighbor. We all have good control over our ground.

Pat, It was also very dismal in Allegany county where my cabin is located. Someone hunted my property at least two days each week all season long, including the gun and muzzloloader seasons, and the amount of deer "missing" is telling! As for reasons I believe in our area it is a combination of poaching, overhunting, food loss (the gypsy moths have decimated the oak trees resulting in acorn loss) and predators. Food loss, primarily the acorns on my hilltop, in a tough one, and one that I have been told by a forester should be temporary. During a recent survey for timber by a good forester we were told that the oaks on our ridge have been hard hit by gypsy moths for the second year of the last five, but the moths, (and caterpillars), should move on to another area for at least few years. Hopefully the damage to the trees was not to the point of being unsurviveable, which I have been told is possible in severe cases, and the leaves, and resulting acorns, will return. On the subject of predators I have seen an increase in coyotes in my area, (something I will try to address this winter), and have personally witnessed two fox dens on my property that are just littered with fawn leg bones and skulls. I never thought a red fox could be a fawn predator, but I may be changing my mind on this matter, and will now ask that anyone hunting my property go ahead and shoot any fox or coyote they see. In the past we did not bother with the predators. Regarding the overhunting and poaching it has not been possible for me to change my neighbor's minds about the number of does and small bucks that may be taken each year, but this year the lack of deer sighting are starting to open their eyes that maybe I just might have had a point. Time will tell on this matter. As far as the poaching goes, I just recently found out that summertime and early fall "night-hunting" is a big problem in the area. Last summer I called the DEC when I heard several rifle shots after dark, and when I told the officer where I was located he said, "there is a problem with poaching in that area". I don't know where the shots came from, (they weren't on my property), but I don't think I want to start confronting armed people in the dark on lonely backroads when I hear shooting. One note of interest here; Since the recent popularization of the "tiny house" and "living off the land" type shows we have had several small camps in the area become full time residences. I find it interesting that this kind of coincides with the drop in deer numbers. I'm not sure if this it the issue, and I'm not about to call these folks poachers, or "scumbags" as how you live is of no interest to me, but if they are indeed poaching and I can prove it, I will call the DEC or local police to try to put an end to it. Whatever the cause, the numbers are down, the hunting is not as enjoyable, and I'm wondering what to do. At my age, 60, a new farm out of state, or even new property in NY is not in the cards, but I may spend more time at friends camps in different areas during next bow season to not only up the odds for a nice buck, but to also enhance the bowhunting experience. After all, as much as I enjoy looking as the orange glow of another sunrise breaks the western horizon from 20' up in an oak on a crispy November morning, it is so much better when it is punctuated by the rhythmic crunch, crunch, crunch... of a deer slowly sneaking my way. Pat it sounds like the switch to Ohio may have been the right move! Good luck, and Happy Holidays to all! Arrowsmith

Madison Co 7M: Low numbers of deer. No dead deer to be found such as w/ infectious disease. Reports of poaching is higher. Predator tracks, especially Bobcat account for most of the tracks I see in many places. I have a buck fawn 100 yds from the house I found killed and covered by a Bobcat. I believe they are a big spring fawn problem. I have found 6 kills in the past 12 months all covered and very hard to see. A core of about 6 friends that hunt all eneded up with no bowbuck this fall including myself. Few bucks, sparse rubs and sign all season. I know Pat dislikes the coyote......but the Bobcat is a real menace to our deer locally

I gotta tell you Pat your situation blows me away. Seems impossible but I believe you 100 percent. Defies logic; good land, food, cover etc. but no deer ; pretty heartbreaking. I know what I would do but I don't want you to stop being a member of our New York regional forums.

Here in 8S we had some decent bucks, but after some of the brown & downers lost access due to land sales, we started seeing more P&Y caliber animals. In order to help balance the load, some of us plan on leaning heavy on does. There were 38 antlerless deer up in my field a couple of weeks ago.

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