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PGC Handcuffs

This is mainly for the Special Regs guys (especially those that like to take deer and hunt all season) but it may have implications beyond that. Why is the PGC attempting at every turn to handcuff the same people that for years they have begged to shoot does? First, it is the limit of 6 tags in hand. Why? Areas such as 5D should be unlimited tags. With the way they have it now, the guys most likely to have access and kill lots of deer are hamstrung once tags sell out. Second and more critical is why, when they relieved us of orange during the early ML season, would they now force us to wear it in the late season? Many of us still bowhunting in January are hunting small parcels and when wearing orange, with the leaves off, are now noticeable to every property owner in the area. The average person, even if they are ok with hunting, will think that the person in orange is gun hunting. Not only will it increase visibility to neighbors but I think it is safe to say that many more LE encounters will be the result. It makes no sense. In the past I could hunt every treestand I have in the late season. With the new rule, I will be limited to those stands where I am not visible 360 degrees to 5 different homes. Even though I have permission, and am not doing anything wrong, it will bring unwanted attention and possibly from anti- hunters. To be clear, my main property is archery only and there would never be a way to gun hunt it. It sure seems to me the PGC is not clearly thinking through these things and need input from the people that actually hunt these areas and have responded to their request to shoot more doe. I'm sure some will disagree with me (Bob!) but for those like me that put in about 250 hours in a treestand a year, this is becoming ridiculous. They said they wanted to simplify orange rules - Gun in hand, wear orange - Bow in hand, no orange. SIMPLE.

Write to the Commissioners and tell them. They can change the rules at any time.

I've been doing that for 6 months and have not gotten a reply. I will keep trying though

damn.. i haven't seen this new rule.. so they want us to wear orange in late season?? F that... i'm in the same boat as you

i just looked and dont see this requirment.. is it new for next year or somethign?

FO sucks! And they can write up the tickets all day. Won't change the fact it is like a neon sign to the antis and the homeowner. Nada, nope. And the 6 tags is bull as well. Why limit guys who can fill them.?

Hunting trapping digest. Page 31 right hand side a little past half way down read flintlock season, then read the one below it extended anterless fire arms season. They contradict each other IMO. I called PGC he read the flintlock said I didn't need fl or. I asked about extended anterless, he says well you need it and hung up. I'm another that don't like the rule.

And to add to the confusion top of page special regulations, w. PA all of Allegheny County, I'm in 2B but in Westmoreland Co but he told me it still applies.

I don't have the book handy but it says that Friearms and any extension needs FO. The season after Christmas is considered the "Extended Firearms Season" . Yet, they removed the requirement for the fall. Makes zero sense.

Well. Anyone hunting in the special regulations areas and in places like 5C and 5D where they want them removed, stick out. What those surrounding urbanization homes don't know or see won't hurt them. I don't even bring it anymore.

I've had WCOs and deputies pop out of fencerows at my spot while I'm walking out at dark claiming the neighbors reported hearing "shots fired". I haven't heard a shot fired in that area in over 10 years so my belief is that someone driving by saw me walking down the field edge and made a call. In all of these cases, no orange was involved, so can you imagine the results now? I wrote a new letter to the Commissioners and I ask all of those that hunt Special Regs to please do the same.

If archery hunting anywhere in the state during an existing archery season with a archery license, no orange is required at any time. Same with flintlock hunters in the late flintlock season with a muzzleloader license. No orange required anywhere in the state.

Don't rely on the folks that answer the phones for the PGC. They often give out incorrect information. I spoke directly to the Bureau of Law Enforcement about this. The part about orange for archery hunters in the extended firearms season pertains to those using a bow as a lesser weapon in that extended firearms season that do not have a archery license. If you have a archery license and are hunting the concurrent late archery season, no orange is required if archery hunting.

Well Gene, you have proven yourself needed for once. But, I don't follow it anyway. Do you have any info in writing about it?

5C, I did but my email clears my deleted messages every month. Rest assured, if hunting any "archery season" and you have an archery license, no orange is required anywhere in the state. If you did not have an archery license and were using a bow as a lesser weapon in the extended firearms season, you must wear orange.

I've hunt many of states over the years, but my home state of Pa seems to have the most complex and changing laws of all them. Ed

dpms, Are you sure that in the Special Regs where the season goes to January 28th there is a defined "archery" season? I need to go find my book but all I saw was an "Extended Antlerless" season. I'm glad you spoke to someone but that doesn't help me when a rookie deputy or WCO has stopped me walking out and reads things the way I do while writing fines. 5C, you are very outspoken about violating the rules (if they are so and I hope not) but is it worth the risk? I've been hunting 49 seasons with a fine and don't plan on getting one now. Trust me when I say they pop up when you least expect them. Good luck.

OK, I found my book. There is an official "Archery" season in 2B, 5C and 5D from 12/28 to 1/28. Under FO Requirements on page 25, it states that "FO is NOT required while hunting deer during archery seasons. FO is required, however, by hunters using archery equipment during regular deer seasons and any extensions of these seasons". It goes on to say that during overlap periods archery hunters are not required to use FO. I apologize for the confusion and it would seem that dpms is correct but I'm sure everyone can see how confusing this is. It is never a good thing when it takes a team of people on a public forum to decipher the PGC's "simple" rules. Thanks for all the inputs and Bowhunting 5C, you are good to go!!

"dpms, Are you sure that in the Special Regs where the season goes to January 28th there is a defined "archery" season?"

DEER, ARCHERY (Antlered and Antlerless) WMUs 2B, 5C and 5D: Sept. 17-Nov. 12; Sunday, Nov. 13; Nov. 14-19, Sunday, Nov. 20; Nov. 21-25 and Dec. 26-Jan. 28, 2023.

I was able to pull up the deleted email from the Bureau of Law Enforcement at the PGC. It is below.

"This is actually a complex issue as our fluorescent orange requirements are established by season, not by implement.

For example, a person hunting antlerless deer during the extended firearms deer season (antlerless only) is required to wear fluorescent orange. This is true whether the hunter is using a firearm, muzzleloader, bow or crossbow, which are all lawful devices for this season. The key here is that the season itself is a firearms season that requires the wearing of fluorescent orange.

However, during the exact same time frame, there is a concurrent archery deer season. Unlike the firearms season, this season requires an archery license, but has no fluorescent orange requirements.

So a hunter need only identify which season they are hunting to determine which devices can be used and what fluorescent orange requirements apply. This is the unfortunate consequence of overlapping seasons."

So basically, if you are hunting the late archery season in the SRA's under a archery license, no FO is required. If using a bow as a lesser weapon in the late extended antlerless firearms season in the SRA without a archery license, FO is required. Despite the seasons running concurrent, they do have different FO regs.

I recieved a call today regarding my email from a Commissioner who graciously took the time to explain to me that the PGC really confused this up and down and that it is, as dpms has explained. Problem solved and hopefully clarified further next year. Thanks to all who chimed in and to dpms for saving that email. Looks like we are good to go. Also thanks to the Commissioner ( he will remain nameless for now) for taking the time to talk to me. In one 20 minute call he re-instilled my faith in the PGC........for now ha ha.

Griz, ok. Here you go, I hunt 5D and 5C. Both are special regulations areas, one borders a horse pasture and a bunch of McMansions where if I am wearing FO, I am visible from both areas. The ridiculous amount of harassment over the last 30 years and the run ins with the yuppies in those homes I could fill a novel with. And the amount of hunter harassment that goes along with it when they know that you are in there on private posted property is equally as alarming. The other is a golf course in 5C, bordered again by big homes and Bambi huggers galore. They have done everything imaginable to ruin hunts and mess with me again on posted private property. Over the last 30 years, I have realized that avoiding those people at all costs and being invisible is the best solution. The less those people know and see, the better off I am, and they are not begging the land owners to kick me off as well which has happened. So, yes Griz, ill wear FO just for you December 26th. With a full camouflage jacket over it.

I just wanted to correct myself. After looking up the gentleman that called me, he is not a Commissioner but a Regional Office Director. Should have looked first and typed after. In any case, I am impressed with the response.

Bowhunting 5C, I agree with you wholeheartedly. 100%. I have the exact same issues. I've been yelled at, had people drive back and forth on property lines with tractors and anything else they can do to keep me from enjoying my time in the woods. But I also know that those same people will not hesitate to call LE and lie that they saw "something" and the next thing is I'm being checked on private property so I had better have my ducks or FO in a row. All good now with the explanation from the PGC via dpms. I just want to hunt!!

I hunt small parcels of private property in 5D, the property owners don't want me to wear orange as it upsets the neighbors. Good to know, hunting the second season with a bow and archery stamp, no orange required. Hunting extended season with a bow or gun and no archery stamp, orange required.

Griz, thanks. Those areas are not for the faint of heart if you're not used to disputes and harassment, that is for sure! Well, even if it was required.... Well, just leave it at that.

Everyone enjoy the second season!

I ain't wearing FO in January.

All late season, "in most of the state", there is no "extended antlerless firearms season", so you don't need to wear it. It is only applicable (wearing FO) when a firearms season overlaps with late archery, and that is only in a very small part of the state. dpms explained it pretty well.

So from my understanding about the antlerless license being limited to 6 at a time was to keep the "don't kill the doe" people from buying up tons of tags. The idea was if they limit 6 at a time the guys that kill deer will fill tags and go and get more tags to fill resulting in higher doe harvests.

That's a great assumption, however by the time you get to use them, 5C and 5D are sold out to get more, the Bambi huggers buying the tags is a part of the 6 possession limits.

"So from my understanding about the antlerless license being limited to 6 at a time was to keep the "don't kill the doe" people from buying up tons of tags."

Where do these theories come from????

Not a theory. Two eyes that belong to me. Norristown court house on the first day of over the counter sales. Seen it.

I don't think you understood the question. Who came up with the theory that the PGC limited the AL license possession to six to try to stop the "don't kill the doe" people from buying them up?

That's preposterous.

Steve, Are you saying bambi huggers do not buy a lot of tags every year or you just have never seen it?

I’m saying that Bambi huggers buying tags, whether they do or not, has nothing to do with the change to the 6 tag limit.

Yes it does when one couple at the Norristown court house buys 500 of them so we do not get them. I seen it. The PGC knows this goes on, and this is there collective way to stop some of it.

So that couple would just have 90 of their anti friends show up and buy 6 each. 5D needs to have unlimited tags which would make false buying ineffective. I should be able to buy a tag for 5D in mid January. There is no negative to unlimited tags in 5D. The antis can buy thousands and it still will not stop me from getting what I need to hunt with and the PGC adds to their coffers a little. There is no shortage of deer in 5D and they have been asking us to kill them ever since GAry Alt made his plea so let us hunt!!

My post was, when it was unlimited across the counter before the pgc went brady bunch and limited to 6. And, that is my point. Your not getting any 5C or 5D tags after September.

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