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Question?

A hypothetical. How many would still buy permits if the state raised the price of an either sex permit to 100.00 if that meant they would sell less non resident permits?

Yes sir! In a heartbeat!

But... I'm 100% NOT for anything that prices resident hunters out of opportunities (including low income teens).

Maybe they should have a “keep a nonresident home” tag option where you can pay for the price of your tag and a non resident tag + hunting license (would tally right around $580 without looking everything up). You get your same tag, and poof, a NR is dropped from the pool. We’d see how bad folks do/don’t want NR real fast. :)

You'd be trusting the government to do the right thing. Not sure that's a smart idea.

The non-residents are not and have never been the problem. Government greed and misappropriation of funds is at the heart of the problem.

KB I will take 10 of those. And they have to stay out of my county. Cooperhead you are 100% correct. It's never been about NR's but about NR management. 1500 tags is what we were promised. Now, with NR LL and Landowner tags, it is about 30,000 strong.

Actually clipper it's 49000. That is what Pratt said when I called.

Lol, Jeff. I know you would!

That 49k is including the doe tags automatically attached to the general NR buck permit, Deer. Actual buck tags/NR hunters on the landscape are closer to Jeff’s number. Still the second most NR’s involved in any big game hunt for bucks and bulls across the country I believe. Colorado elk brings in just a few more.

Do that deerdummy and about half of the Kansas Legislators would commit suicide.

That's a long way from the 1500 tags promised. Some of you weren't born or weren't weaned yet, but when we attended meetings back in 1994, that is what we were told, 1500.

Nope, You damn near gotta pass a credit check to hunt any more as it is. It really is becoming like golf to me, something fat ass white aristocrats do in their spare time. It's really kind of sickening. But I certainly aint losing an sleep over it, Im kind of on my way out anyway. I'm 46, already had one open heart surgery and its just getting to be too much work setting up stands and dragging dead dear around by myself. Just not as much fun as it used to be. I have been steadily getting crowded out of most all the places I have hunted the last 10 or 15 years. Went to a spot yesterday where I have pretty much been the only guy bow hunting it for quite some time and some dick head went in and parked a couple scissor lift box blinds, a ground blind and a fuckin feeder 100 yards from my stand lol. Bout to throw in the towel and do arts and crafts instead.

I would love to be 46 years old.

KB that number is total buck tags. Non resident draw. Hunt own land ,lot,lifetime license holders. From other states. I had the guy break it down when I called to get total tags sold to people not residing in Kansas.

Jason L…..are you planning to bring something like this up during the public forum period of next weeks wildlife commission meeting in Wichita? You can attend remotely via Zoom if you can’t make it in person.

I've been to several commission meetings. Talked to several of my reps in Topeka. Even had a few sit-down meetings to voice concerns. It seems that the commissioners don't have any impact on permit quotas. Unless to increase them. Yes I plan on being there. Even if it doesn't help.

Otown, put in another twenty years of scouting and hanging stands, then you might have something to complain about. LOL LOL When I started about fifty years back, I only knew of a couple others that bowhunted in the county.

I will try to make Wichita next week, where the commission will say yes and promise you the world, but they are afraid of what the folks in Topeka might do.

Jason, here’s the numbers straight from the website for the 2020 season. Likely not that much different than this fall. The only one missing is NR lifetime license buck tags. Those get tallied in the resident column I presume because they’re the same hunt code as your resident tags. I’ve never seen a total on the number of NR lifetime license buck tags sold. Is it really ~24,000?

His numbers he gave me not sure from where. I was trying to figure the total number of non resident buck permits. He had to look up lifetime license holders not living in ks and landowner tenant as well. Just reporting what he quoted.

I talked with the game warden today. They have one gal to go through all the tags sold to NR's to see who might be buying an illegal tag. They are working on the fellow I turned in.

NR Hunt Own Land and Tenant numbers are listed. There’s no “Landowner/Tenant” option for NR in the same sense that there is for residents. The resident version is just a price break on a normal tag. I suppose there could be a few NR lifetime license holders grabbing resident LO/T tags, but that can’t amount to much. Like I said, if there’s indeed 49,000 nonresident buck hunters on the landscape right around half of them would have to be lifetime license holders. And those folks would account for almost 30% of the resident buck tags purchased. I don’t think that’s the case.

Has the state even sold 24,000 lifetime hunting licenses, let alone to folks who have actually moved? The only data I could find was about 900 licenses sold per year from ‘16-‘18.

Jason, that is not how supply and demand works. Why would you suggest raising the fee for residents when resident hunter numbers are going down? NR numbers go up every year, S&D principles would recommend NR buck tags go up substantially due to that demand. No, I would not support residents paying $100 for tags. We pay taxes all year long, pay for goods and services for 12 months, not just 3 months. We should pay less for our tags or get more for what pay now.

Ray all says all of the changes to deer hunting happened due to the Republican politicians in Topeka (a better way to stereotype them would be farmer/rancher/pro-ag politicians) so let's do it the Democratic way.

To do that, NR would have to pay far higher fees for fewer tags, they should expect to pay 200-300% more for their tags if that happened. Look what Brandon and Co did for fuel/oil prices, inflation.

I saw Transferable Tags going for $1500 back in 2006. I think at $2000 per tag they would keep coming. Look how much vehicles, groceries, houses, etc has gone up. Tags should go up at the same rate. Deerflation!!!

Trebarker I 100 percent agree with you. That is why I said hypothetical.

From my observations there isn't a $ figure out there that will slow down most non residents and some of the residents. If they will pay $8,000-$12,000 per person for a lease or buy a half section for $750,000, and pay $50,000-$80,000 for a house in the nearest small town, drive here in their $80,000 pickup 6 times over a 3 month period. A few extra thousand for a tag is pennies. I used to really get upset with all the residents. Don't worry to much about it anymore. I didn't even buy a deer tag this year, first time in 24yrs. I am content just taking my wife and boys out to get a deer. Usually end up shooting a 1.5-3.5 yr old buck and couldn't be happier. And for myself I just head to Colorado to elk hunt and be one of the non residents myself. I can do that for $1200 for the whole thing.

The part that is hard for to wrap my mind around is where all the money comes from for people to spend that kind of coin on a deer hunt in Ks. They spend per year to hunt deer for what a good amount of locals make in a year. I will admit, I am jealous of the amount of money that shows up. But truly have no idea where it all comes from. And these aren't old retired dudes either. Mostly 20-40 yr old people. I know this is kind of selfish. But I wish they would ban baiting. I think it would really decrease the demand for Ks deer

Most of these 20-40 yr olds carry a large amount of debt. Really ignorant to pay $3500 per acre for a hobby that will be short lived. Sink that money into a retirement play, that's why the old dudes are retired. Selfish is putting out a feeder to corral all the deer.

I used to think that people were just in debt up to their ears. But anymore I don't think that's the case. Yes, they are obviously in debt. But debt has to eventually be paid. These people have been doing this for years. They are affording it. You can't keep living that lifestyle and not make the payments. And the amount of income they would have to have to support that debt would be a crazy high number. I truly think they are either making or inherenting that money. Not just living on borrowed money.

Land isn’t a retirement play?

$3500 an acre today was probably $1000-1200 per acre type stuff in 2007 (before the ‘08 craziness). That tracks pretty damn close to the Dow and S&P. Nasdaq did quite well comparatively. But then there are the income opportunities with land. Lots of old retired dudes with land, no?

I love to deer hunt, but not enough to pay what some of these folks are shelling out to do it. It’s not just the NR guys paying big money to hunt here. The best hunting acreage I had back in the day sold for well over what the market was at the time, by several thousand more an acre than other land was selling for. A guy from KCK bought it, spends maybe 1-7 days a year at most on it hunting. He never steps foot on it the rest of the year, there have been years when he didn’t hunt. The same farmer farms it that used to let me hunt it back then, but the new owner won’t allow anyone else to hunt or fish there. That purchase ended hunting and fishing to many more than just myself, BP hunters, other archery hunters, 20-30 rifle hunters some years when they were doing deer drives, countless fishermen, all locals that no longer get to hunt/fish there.

I am going to drive 90 miles round trip today to shoot a doe this afternoon, that’s as close as I come to spending extra for hunting. $5-$10k per year for venison? That will buy a lot of beef for the freezer, and the trimmings to go with it, and it’s a sure thing.

Depends on the land. If your buying cropland, then yes. But all I hear is that farmers can't make it. Or you could run cattle on it. But when your farming for deer, I don't see the income.

Farmers can’t make it if it doesn’t rain. But nationally, adjusted for inflation, net farm income was at a 50 year high last year. Farmers with moisture are doing fine. If we’re talking about a strictly rec property and there’s a reasonable amount of tillable CRP is the best of both worlds. Guys who are buying strictly scrub brush and don’t want cattle on it probably aren’t too concerned with the income potential. Still doesn’t necessarily make it a terrible investment though.

$3500 per acre and 7% plus on interest, I wouldn't buy any.

But we are not talking about farmers who buy their own land and then farm it. We are talking about buying land for recreation, then having someone farm it and getting a percentage. Not farmers who have had land handed down from 4 or 5 generations with land that doesn't have a mortgage.

You’re the one that brought farmers into it. Interest rates will surely slow things down, but a lot of rec properties got locked in from 2-4% the last few years. Over time land has always been a solid investment. Maybe not the best, probably not the worst.

Over the years, yes. But with the price of land over the last 10 years and now with interest rates, probably not.

KB I just wish I could get an accurate number from them. Seems to very depending on who you talk with. But I guess it doesn't matter. Pretty positive it's not going to go down in tags issued anytime soon.

I hear you Jason. I’m not sure they have one though. When you mentioned the fellow you spoke with saying he had to look up how many in total were even living out of the state that tells me they don’t track purchases. Being a NR LL holder myself I’ve wondered for quite a while if they keep track of us, as previously mentioned, we buy the same hunt code as residents. Maybe their system does sort us out, but you’d think they’d publish it or at least have a number for you. If not someone would have to go back through each resident tag purchased and tally the NR LL holders I presume? Like I said in another thread, I’d be in favor of a change to the system where NR LL folks have to go through the draw and are awarded tags before general NR, at NR prices. That seems the most fair to all involved in my opinion. My guess is Jeff’s number is probably in the ballpark with ~30k NR either sex hunters. That would assume 4-5,000 NR LL folks.

They don't have the staffing to go through those. One girl and she is new.

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