Commission Meeting
Kansas
Thanks to the guys who showed up at the KDWP meeting today and expressed their concerns. You can hear it change is coming they just got to figure out how they want to implement it. Kyle it is always great to have a commissioner come and ask for your contact information as you were direct and to the point.
I hope the change is in relation to baiting?
If so, and if the commission actually has that kind of power, I’m betting there will be a new bill before the Kansas legislature officially legalizing it.
Good job Kyle, I have to say I liked the new red stocking cap.
In all seriousness good job. Kyle comes in about the 40 minute mark.
Good comments from Matte as well… think I heard that name right? Interesting/depressing to hear about the mule deer situation.
You both were very courteous and professional. Good job representing the sportsman of Kansas.
I would have went but I am at work til 1AM. I support whatever you guys said. Did anybody record it?
When you say change what are you meaning?
Changes in a bunch of things that are probably coming down the pipe. No more annual camping permit, no more late season Pronghorn. Fixing the paper tag situation. List goes on and on.
Jason the video is on KDWP page… check out the 40 minute mark for Kyle. Matte was before that.
It seems like they are at least willing to discuss baiting… that gives a guy a little hope.
Matte I applaud your optimistic outlook. Thanks to you and Kyle for going and speaking up. Much appreciation to you both.
Thanks to all three of you guys for making time to attend the KDWP meeting. E-Tags; from my view probably 25% of the deer brought in were NOT completely tagged. Reception in parts of unit # 12 can be spotty at best and if a hunter gives up on that, then prints a paper tag, half of them are completely unreadable after a few minutes of weather. I don't have time to throughly check every deer and we never saw a LEO this season. Mule Deer; going to a draw is probably the way to go, but like with turkey's, Lauber likes to give you an opportunity even if the chances are very slim. Baiting: I honestly hope something gets done in this area. On the down side, enforcement would be a nightmare, when we don't see a LEO all season, who is going to check with the local CO-OP as to who buys bagged corn by the ton? From a health standpoint, a lot of these deer are so fat, they are probably developing heart problems! Again, guys thanks for speaking up. We sure won't get anywhere if we keep quiet!
Thank you for the representation fellas!
I’d sure like to see something done about baiting. Those new paper tags are a joke, nothing stopping people from making multiple copies.
Personally I don’t like the etags. That’s mostly me just being old school and liking the nostalgia of having a hard copy. The other part is what Marvin stated above. For whatever reason I have a few farms that have zero reception on them. It’s actually gotten worse this year.
I bought a few etags for doe season and I had nothing but trouble in two different locations. I actually had to drive all the way home to tag the animals through the app and then go back and pick them up. I’ve never been stopped with an animal in my truck, but I would be the one person who got pulled over if I tried to bring them home.
Fortunately it was within 10 miles of my house, but still a pain in the arse.
The only part I like is the ease of tagging the animal and not being able to lose your tag…. But a responsible person shouldn’t and if they do, pay the expense of buying another one.
This is why I brought up having a general carcass tag that can be picked up at the time of purchase. It would have you ink in name, and tag number you purchased online or at the store. Katch ya a deer apply carcass tag for travel e check if service is there if not e check still mandatory when service can be found. Will there be cheaters, yes probably so but there were always cheaters with the green tags as well.
On the printed off your printer tags, after the kill, I fill it out, put it in a zip lock sandwich bag, and fasten it to the dead deer. That keeps it dry and legible. On people printing and using multiple tags, people that cheat will cheat, regardless of the type of tag. I do like the convenience of being able to electronically buy my license and print it at home.
Thanks for representing all of us Kyle. Great job and I too was shocked that they have at least begun discussions of a plan. I was also interested in the guy following that discussed the drone use for recovery. I was a bit torn on them after seeing what they can do following the Drone Deer Recovery guy out of Ohio recently. In the wrong hands, I could see the misuse, but I also like the 24-hour ban from hunting that was discussed. I can see the enforcement issues, but that is not much different than many others and ethics needs to be brought into many of the technological advancements. I thought the gentleman speaking on it did a good job of challenging the stance. I sure wish Brad had more pull with the science behind a lot of the issues we face in the state. Thanks again!
The way tags are sold are more of a problem vs etags. Continuing to have them sold at Wal-Mart, etc leads to many NR's buying resident and tenant tags. Make people go to the court house with a couple forms of ID.
Definitely wish a DL had to be provided for all license and tag transactions even for a minor an accompanying adult would need to be present.
A problem I have with stopping baiting is an economic impact on farmers and stores that sale bagged corn or bulk. In the economy today for farmers to remove even one small economic stream can be devastating. One of my neighbors bagging and selling corn has kept them above water. That’s like saying it is illegal to lease your land for hunting. It is a revenue stream. And I see deer at out winter cattle feeders all hours. Do you want to stop this? Cwd issue is like Covid more test you do the more positives you will have! I’m 72 years old and have lived here my whole life we don’t need more regulations need to get ways to find the next generation of hunters or we will loose the privilege.
And therein lies the problem with wildlife management being done by legislators.
Ignore the science for $$$.
As a farmer, I understand the impact this potentially could have on my pocketbook. Believe me, I wish there was some data that shows how many bushels are wasted every year for baiting. I bet it is astronomical.
However, as my dad has always told me, “If you vote to fatten your wallet, be careful you don’t sell your soul”.
Baiting ain’t right and it is contributing to the spread.
There are a lot of farmers in my area that have made a killing off the backs of wildlife. I
I’d also like to see these outfitters actually put in some work instead of strapping a ladder stand 20 yards from a feeder.
If I had to guess… baiting won’t be outlawed. It will be discouraged, but will be voluntary. We’ve got too many legislators with their fingers in this..
I watched the video again, I’d sure like to hang out with that guy in the red stocking cap for an afternoon.
Comes across as a man who has been to a hundred meetings and is always treated the same way despite having legitimate concerns.
Again, very impressed with the way you gentleman carried yourselves.
One arrow I am a 4th generation farmer. And things are changing I would like to know how many bushels of corn and beans deer consume. Not long ago we were issuing deformation tags. Deer heard is healthy on our 16000 acres and we do lease out land to supplement income. It sure helps with taxes. And yes we have to make money and use all necessary ways that are legally possible.
I have attended 12 of these meetings in the last 5 years all they are doing is checking boxes. Have asked for responses and have always been treated like you’re not there.
This IS the most interesting man in the world!
Now that would be something if he drinks Dos Equis….
Interesting to see Ken "45yrs of KS deer" Oberg evolve from his first post this morning to his last.
Originally he's a concerned farmer who's neighbor "kept themselves above water" by bagging and selling corn. A "science denier", and concerned about the "next generation of hunters"?
By the time we get to his last post(on the Baiting getting axed thread). His family didn't inherit, but he did. His son had a hunting/leasing "business plan", was the corn-bagger, and now sells to "mult. Business". Most importantly he reveals the true reasoning for his need to bait..."hunters harvested 24 trophy deer last year".
So, like many other outfitters in KS, and even with 16k acres(but do a OnX search and you'll find nothing under that name), he needs money and the easy button to get that money.
If you're such a hard worker, and have areas with over 70 deer on one field, you should be able to find your "hunters" one. Moreso, if you have even an inkling of sense, you can see that baiting is unneeded and that it's a detriment to the health of the herd. My opinion.
Yea I looked up his name to see how many subsidies he has received . None under that name. Sounds like an outfitter.
Not an outfitter at all just owner that thought he would. Put his 2 cents in. We lease our land out don’t outfitters it. Good luck when the privilege is removed. Then we will see what’s next. Good luck last post got what you wanted for people to bury their heads and follow the yellers.
What "privilege" exactly would be removed? Don't want anyone to bury their head, just use their head.
Using ATVs cross bows game cameras. Privilege is something allowed rights are government given or god given. Using rifles to hunt instead of shotguns exc. When one thing is allowed to go unchallenged the next becomes much easier. Have a great day!!
Using ATVs cross bows game cameras. Privilege is something allowed rights are government given or god given. Using rifles to hunt instead of shotguns exc. When one thing is allowed to go unchallenged the next becomes much easier. Have a great day!!
Using ATVs cross bows game cameras. Privilege is something allowed rights are government given or god given. Using rifles to hunt instead of shotguns exc. When one thing is allowed to go unchallenged the next becomes much easier. Have a great day!!
Bait poisons, and has nothing to do with hunting, we won't miss it. You have a great day as well.
I just watched the whole thing. Very insightful! Thanks to everyone who showed up and gave their two cents! I would like to do so myself, here in the near future.
Feller in the red stocking cap sure is a character! :)
Glad we had some folks there with input.
If I had to guess baiting ban will start in heavy CWD Regions and over a few years they will have data and go from there. There is a lot of talk that goes on at these meetings that is not on the record.
Just had time to watch a little bit and yep thanks to y’all that spoke up. We need good speakers and y’all represented well. I can talk to farmers and ranchers all day long but I couldn’t stand there and talk in front of a microphone. I would definitely be more like that guy in the red stocking cap.
“We will consider that.” Seemed to be the primary reply from the commissioners when replying to difficult questions. No real solid answers. But, I get it. Hard to answer some of the questions.
Sounds like you guys need a tag reduction in a big way for mule deer. Was Levi eluding to habitat loss being the primary reason for mule deer population decline? I do understand drought has a big impact on reproduction and population growth.
The dude in the red stocking cap got zero respect. The commissioners must be callused by him at the meetings. :)
I would like to see it, but I seriously doubt we will see baiting banned, at least in my lifetime. It's just gotten to damn big to stop. We all agree that there's not enough officers in the field and just who is going to check the feed store receipts?
Yea 2 little 2 late. Baiting is here to stay I'm afraid.
What was concerning and Brad Loveless even said it...is the wildlife dept's now have the science that proves that baiting and CWD and/or CWD outbreaks are linked. However, the dept. would rather not shock the public but instead do what will no doubt be a multi-year campaign to educate the public before they eventually restrict or eliminate baiting...while the masses just continue to bait and CWD continues to spread.
IMO, if wildlife officials now have the proof that they have been needing......then just rip the band-aid off and eliminate baiting IMMEDIATLEY! Figuring out how to enforce it can come later. I figure the real enforcement of it will happen at the grassroots level first by hunters or neighboring landowners ratting each other out. At a minimal scale, KDWP can just hire Thornton to fly around the state to identify the feeders and mountains of corn that can be seen from the air.
After the elimination of baiting, all those dis-gruntled hunters that do bait will either adapt and become better non-baiting hunters, leave and hunt other states that allow baiting or just roll the dice and keep on baiting until they atleast get caught and pay their fines.
Small steps gentlemen...no such thing as a failure who keeps trying
Rick....yeah that is what Levi was getting at...but more specifically CRP/grasslands. The key takeaway from the K-State mule deer study that was critical for future mule deer recovery was deer population growth rates out west tracked directly with CRP acres enrolled and that during the multi-year study the best fawn survival rates were those located in knee-to-waist high grasslands like CRP affords.
If KDWP was to consider a "separate" mule deer tag then they would be immensely restrictive and possibly have their own season too....since that tag would be so species specific. Doesn't sound like KDWP is ready to go that route just yet.
I would like to see that study Crested. I see know reason at all for a NR to be hunting mule deer in Kansas.
I’ve already been talking to a few landowners about the baiting ban up there. I wished I would have known that they were interested in the landowner’s opinion.
That room looked like it had a lot of empty seats. We could have probably filled that whole room with landowners willing to ban baiting. They want landowners…we’ll give it to em. They’ll be backed up full out on the steps.
The situation by me for example. Outfitter has 30 acres of river timber, but no ag fields. Ajoing landowner has 120 acres of corn and beans on the north side. Outfitter baits with huge piles of corn. This draws in a lot of deer from surrounding river bottoms. Property the outfitter leases now has 5 times more deer than the grounds can handle. Ag landowner complains that 30% of ag field (corn ) was destroyed by deer. Its a never ending cycle that never should have happened because those corn piles move the deer to these areas for a handful of hunters to hunt.
Excellent idea. I'd be happy to fly a warden around once I get used to this old plane.
I’m not sure if you can get a lot of landowners or farmers on board, but I know of one that will be glad to be at the next meeting if there is actually going to be serious discussion.
Not just smoke and mirrors.
Here's a list of contact info for the Commissioners, emails do get read. Brad Loveless would also be a good one to contact, but I can't seem to find his email.
I personally like the E-tag. I like that it makes you take a picture of the animal also. With the cell phone data LEO will know exactly where that photo was taken and be able to compare if other photos are taken. I think it will result in more people being caught poaching. I believe it should be both, go back to the printed tag system but require electronic checking through the app. Within a few years it will be able to be enforced as people get used to it. I agree that the printed paper tag was problematic
Michael, Keep the E-Tag and have carcass tags that are signed and notched attached to the animal. These carcass tags can be mass produced saving the state money. There were so many printers going down is one of the reasons they got away from the green printed tags.
Thanks, my letter to the commissioners is in their “inbox.” And I forwarded it to my three brothers asking them to send a letter.
Have sent Lauber e-mails in the past and on the next comm. meeting he states he has heard from noone.
Finally got to watch the meeting on a long flight yesterday. Thanks to the fellows who attended and spoke up. Nice job.
It sounds like a number of changes are in the works. They just need to figure out the best course of action. Hopefully it’s sooner than later for the muleys and corn.
Sad to hear the second pronghorn season is on its way out. Seems like a drastic move to only save 8 bucks.
Only hunted pronghorn 2 year so far but I would miss not having the late season. It's about the only opportunity I have to make that trip.
Dale…thx for sending the letter to Commissioners and your brothers. If you don’t mind me asking was there a specific topic or agenda as part of your letter?
Can't imagine there are many getting killed late season. Could change it to a draw only or reduce number of tags sold based on population aerial survey data they used to take.
Can't imagine there are many getting killed late season. Could change it to a draw only or reduce number of tags sold based on population aerial survey data they used to take.
Lol, I can guarantee my late season hunting isn't changing the population any!
The pronghorn season needs to be stopped. Based on the populations of neighboring states, we have an ever declining herd that's not even remotely comparable to the size of the herds next door. Not to mention, their herds are also declining. We didn't hunt our 5,000 acre ranch in NM last year because of it. In 2017, there were 30+ bucks on the place. In 2021, there were 6. I've hunted all over Kansas for decades and have never seen a pronghorn west of the Cattle Pens in the unhuntable, shrinking herd in the Flint Hills. At some point, reasonable minded hunters are going to have to become conservationists or we'll lose everything.
Looking at the harvest reports there were 2, 6, 3, and 1 killed in the October season from ‘18-‘21 respectively.
Simply switching all tags to buck-only would have a greater impact on the herd than closing a little used segment of archery season. Never have understood why does and fawns are legal, yet they make up 5-10% of the annual harvest the last decade.
I'd go to a draw for Archery, eliminate the NR Archery tags, cut the firearms tags and move xguns to firearms season. Not sure there's an easier quarry w/a rifle...unless there's a cornpile involved.
Crestedbutte, my message was, continue to allow baiting on private property, and reduce the mule deer tags substantially. That’s the summary of what I said, but I had comments and opinion to go with my recommendations. I don’t know what my brothers will say, for sure, they can say what they want, but if I had to guess one will say the same as me. The other two, probably just reduce mule deer tags and won’t care on bait, cause they rifle hunt. What will be your comments to the commissioners?
Dan...my comments were:
Ban baiting across the entirety of the state on both private and public. No hard feelings, guess we'll just cancel each other out.
Reduce NR deer tags by atleast 50%.....from approx. 30K total down to approx. 15K total
Increase cost of NR deer tags by $200. The add'l. $200/tag cost increase x 15K = $3 million and use a portion of it to recruit/hire/train/compensate more game wardens and off-set future costs involved with capturing/transplanting mule deer from neighboring states to replenish what could eventually become a non-existent herd.
Don't close any current "archery" season no matter the species even if what is being considered is specific to pronghorn only. Can't believe KBA isn't throwing a shit-fit over this one. There are other "more effective" ways to reduce stress and harvest on our dwindling pronghorn herd as mentioned above.
Some Commissioners (not all) should step-down from their appointed positions.
My letter will be long. First problem to tackle for me is tag sales. If you visit with your game wardens, I think they will tell you it is a major problem. I was told in 2001 they had a list of close to 50 for my area only of illegally purchased tags. Mostly NR's posing as residents and buying non qualifying tenant tags. Too me, this would be much easier to go after than baiting ever will. Simply have the tags sold by a legal entity, the courthouse with proper ID. Get them out of Wal-Mart. Next would be the any season tag. Very costly to mule deer. Some of the other things simply aren't going to happen. I say go after those things that might get changed.
I am not aware of the issue of non resident buying resident licenses. While I like buying my license on line, if illegalities are occurring, I’d go to a court house or other entity to buy my license. I buy on line a “ non res hunt on your own land”. I have to state how much land I own and in what county. And my home address and I believe DL are required.
Baiting ban wouldn’t be hard to enforce and even if you want to argue that it would be that doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be banned
Baiting ban wouldn’t be hard to enforce and even if you want to argue that it would be that doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be banned
How would you know who is baiting on their own land? Are they going to turn themselves in? I 100% agree it should be banned.
KSClipper….per your request above. See link to 2018 first year survey summary (short version).
KSClipper…per the link provided is the completed 2021 survey report (long version 151 pgs.). Skip to page 121 for mule deer management suggestions.
Here's how you find illegal feeders. Or drones, drones are cheaper to operate but can't cover as much area.
Here's how you find illegal feeders. Or drones, drones are cheaper to operate but can't cover as much area.
Courthouse to pick up a tag? Really? As much as you hate it, The days of Mayberry are long gone day.
I like printing licenses, as well as picking them up from a sporting goods store aor Walmart. Making plans around weekends and government holidays is an idea I hope nobody gets behind. More government? No thanks.
Available at sporting goods stores I can see. Getting one mailed to you after a tag is purchased I can see. Just printing one off at home is ridiculous. Our whole world has gone to what is easy and most convenient. Maybe we need to screw our heads on straight again, pre plan for our year as in all big game tags need to be purchased before season and lost tags are not replaceable.
Why limit it to only sporting good stores? Why the hate for Walmart?
It’s been a few years since I’ve drawn a a NR KS deer tag., but every deer tag I’ve had in KS was mailed to me. Has something changed? I have used the print option for turkeys many times and it’s been convenient. Especially for last minute plans.
Printing them off is ridiculous. All tags should go through a state park office or be mailed like the old days. This would keep everyone honest, especially if they had to prove they were a landowner. I know several guys that have bought landowner tags because they were cheaper and they didn't own anything.
E-tags are the way. Can’t print off multiple, can’t lie to a Wal mart gal, and they provide real time harvest data. There’s a little wiggle room for the cheaters, but not as much as other options I’d say. And the cell service issue has been easily navigated in my experience. One can start the process and save your submission until service is regained. If you happen to be checked in the few miles between loading a critter and finding a couple bars I can’t imagine you’re getting written up with proof that the submission is complete and just waiting to be sent.
Thornton, on the land owner tags, when I buy my license, they ask how many acres and what county. I presumed that they follow up and check to see if the purchaser actually owns land in that county, or at least spot check for land ownership. Maybe I am wrong. I would hope there are hefty fines for lying about land ownership to get a license.
Well Cazador maybe you can complain enough and you can pay your taxes and get your DL at Walmart. KB I could get on board with the Etag.
Dale they can't check them or at least very many. There is only one gal that does that, and she is backed up tighter than Sito after a Bill Self victory.
Ksclipper, thanks for that explanation. Seems like they could hire another person(s) to check residency, land ownership, etc and probably easily recover that salary in fines and higher license fees. But the government may not look at things that way.
They don't get fine money, it goes into state general fund.
The more I think about it, the less I like etags. Seems like a millennial thing to me.
I like the hard copies. Not this printable junk either.
Real easy 1 1/2 minute tutorial on how to E-Tag.
You can make it as complex or as hard as you want. Why make it hard? If a law is in place, and a person gets caught breaking that law, then it should be dealt with in a crushing matter. No slaps on the wrist etc. Some people abide by it, others never will, and making them drive to Topeka (joking) to pick up there NR license isn't going to change that fact.
I know when I kill a deer or a turkey, and cross the lines back to CO I make damn sure I have followed the procedures to check it prior to crossing state lines. It's kind of like trespassing. There are people who fear the law and always know where they are at due to the ramifications, and others who will drive their truck right out into your pasture without a second thought. You can't fix stupid, and making stuff harder than it needs to be especially when dealing with government is just plain insanity at its finest.
Who said anything about driving to Topeka?
"Who said anything about driving to Topeka?"
It's clear to me now why you want to drive to the local county courthouse. Wow!
I’ve used e-tags multiple times… I don’t like them.
I like slapping the old tags on the back of mounts or including them in my hunt diary.
Just to clarify… I have no problem with someone using an e-tag. If that’s your thing go for it. I just like the hard copies… I think both should be an option.
Not so easy if you have no cell service, took pic where doe died drove to where can usually call out could not get pic to load on the KDWP app. took care of deer and drove 60 miles home phone still would not upload pic, watched the instruct video still no good tried what parks office said to try still no go had to text pic to Sandra's phone and use hers to get it to upload, was a major PIA . I don't care to have another E-tag after all that. For whatever the reason my phone would not do it. Miss the Green tags , Colorado still sends them out.
I’ve had a similar experience, but DGW’s situation made me question the “little wiggle room” for cheaters.
What if a guy shoots a buck, uploads everything to the app, but doesn’t “submit” the tag?
If he gets pulled over he can just say he has bad cell service and couldn’t get it to go through. Or quickly submit it once being checked. If not stopped he could just drive home, cut the head off, etc. and never submit the tag.
Cheaters are going to cheat, but I don’t see this making it any easier or harder for an individuals to lie/steal wild game than a paper tag. Maybe even easier?
Also, I have apps that crash on me all the time. Especially as my phone gets older. I’ve had apps I can’t even open due to storage issues as my phone fills up. As for cell service, I probably need to look into a new provider, but I can drive you to a 3 mile stretch where you will not get any service from U.S. Cellular, as in zero… and that area is where I do most of my hunting.
What if you don’t even have a cell phone? I know 2 guys that don’t.
I like the idea of pic showing time and location, I answered the info tried to upload pic to app . tried to submit keep getting need to up load pic. Sandra was a place she had no service had to wait till Tuesday and her phone, I need a new phone I guess. I don't know if it shows I tried numerous time that night and next 2 days. History showed no report till we used her phone.
Be still… yep. My closest friends are guys in their 60’s and 70’s. Very bright men, but they have no use for “smart phones”.
A mandatory Etag just might push them over the edge.
Tried to renew my hunting and fishing license a while back and it wouldn't let me check out and pay. Finally called Pratt and connected me to a lady in the licensing dept. I don't know why I expected anything more from KDWP.
I buy my licenses at the Wildlife office in Emporia. They tried to convince me to try the Etags this year. I told them the areas I hunt have weak cell service. I was told not to worry everything would upload when I got to an area with good service. I didn't like the sound of that, so I got the paper tags.
When I by landowner tags, they simply asked how many acres and the county. I do know that a former game warden checked landowner tags in his area to verify they owned land. I don't know if that is still being done.
Anyone read this bill? Unsure if this has been talked about on this thread yet. HB2079
Would give those with a lifetime hunting license a free any-season whitetail tag with potential to purchase a second any-season whitetail tag for the same calendar year.
For those purchasing a hunting license each year, it would come with a free whitetail antlerless tag.
Motion to change the rifle season to begin the Wednesday BEFORE Thanksgiving and end on the second Sunday of December.
Don’t think a 19 day rifle season is ever going to fly. And in the years Thanksgiving is on the 28th rifle folks would lose a week. Somebody didn’t look at a calendar when they dreamed this up.
^^^ If KS is set on completely ruining it's mature buck population this would be how you go about doing it.
Is there a way to mass email everyone on that committee to urge against it?
Click link ==> scroll down and select click here to download a spreadsheet
Excel shows email address for everyone on this committee (Column AA) . Additional information shows Occupation as well. Only 1 of 17 listed shows Wildlife Biologist.
I swear every year the morons that push these bills in Topeka get more more insane. You know at this point why don't they just make it a free for all. Shoot any deer any way you cab. Hell maybe even have a bazooka season that way you can get like 3 or 4 in one shot. Hell shoot them with side mounted machine guns off of helicopters. Set up trip wires that way when that huge buck comes by your cell cam you definitely get him. The absurdity of the Topeka machine is out of control. But I guess that's what you get when 3 big cities in Kansas control it.
Here is a bill on baiting albeit from another state. This is exactly what i proposed in one on one conversations
That article was a little hard to follow. I believe they enacted the no baiting in CWD units in 2018. But this bill is to do away with that and reinstate baiting statewide.
In my emails to the commission last week prior to the meeting I stated the units that allow a five antlerless wt harvest need reassessed and baiting has no place in any unit where a reduced doe harvest is taking place. That could cover any units where mule deer antlerless tags were removed as well. This CWD approach is probably the most realistic and likely scenario if anything happens.
KB correct they are trying to get rid of what we need to do. Just does not make sense. The science is there, they just think people will not hunt if it is not easy, however social studies show people are more apt to be passionate on medium to hard to reach goals.
Listened to most of the latest commission meeting yesterday. Seemed quite lively compared to some. Few of the takeaways:
Voted 7-0 to ban trail cams statewide on Department and WIHA lands.
In the camera discussion private lands were brought up and Commissioner Lauber said they have no interest in pursuing a private land camera ban, adding that they’re gearing up for a baiting ban over the next two years which will be enough of a fight for now.
Nest predators were a big topic. The biologists agreed habitat is really the only significant player in advancing bird numbers but localized predator take can help on small scales. Com Sporer was pretty adamant something needs to be done on predators regardless. Coon and Coyote populations have skyrocketed whiles skunks and opposums are flat according to their data. Sporer was trying to convey again that habitat initiatives are largely out of their hands on a large/impactful scale, so doing some good by removing predators might be their only move for now.
Com Sills asked some good questions about feeders congregating predators and leading to higher localized nest/adult bird mortalities. The upland biologist also said upland birds are especially susceptible to aflatoxin corn, even at suitable levels for other animals and where it’s considered still safe to sell. Fair amount of deer disease transmission at feed sites discussion as well.
Sounds like some CWD restrictions are coming with regards to carcass movement and windows to get heads to taxidermist/disposed of.
Price hikes are in the works.
NR tag allotment dropped a total of 145 permits with some fairly significant drops north and west and a few southeast units picking up some of the slack.
Resident rifle muley tags dropped again by about 100 and most of the NR muley stamps were lowered a tad.
Sounds like the October archery pronghorn season is all but gone, sadly.
Probably a little I’m forgetting for now.
Anyone have a report from Manhattan? Levi or Sec Brad divulge anything of note?
So then camera's will be banned on state land?
That’s my understanding Jeff. They talked about possible amendments with certain dates allowed going forward and may revisit that, but wanted a vote Thursday as it was written so it could be added to the regs this year if passed. Which it did.
I'm good with no cameras, the cell cam's...and some might say all cam's, are moving the goalposts.
I missed the KWDP presentation(s) at the Convention Kaleb, had a lot going on but should have made time. I know some that come here were in attendance, not sure if they have a consensus of what was discussed. Baiting came up in the KBA Business Meeting, but I don't know much more than that.
We missed having you there bud!
I wish the commission would consider just dropping the tag numbers out west without SEK making up the difference. Of course, I know their hands are tied by the politicians.
Kelab, I was at the KWDP presentations, they seemed very concerned with CWD. My take for what it is worth is they are looking at baiting more than in the past and are concerned baiting is a contributing factor of CWD spreading . Was good to see Commissioner Lauren Sills spending time talking to members , and was at the presentation with great questions and also was asked question from both Brad and Levi. They would like to make all Mule deer tags a drawing even archery but don't know when that will happen and no Mule deer doe tags.
Wish I could’ve made it Kyle. Got the rundown from Matt yesterday and he relayed most of what Dan said. Sounds like some big changes in the works.
Shutting down this October pronghorn season seems like an overreaction to me. It gets little participation and very little take historically. Wish there was more of an opposition, but sounds like it might be too late at this point? If they close that and eventually go to a draw for the September hunt I think we’ll see it take 3+ years to acquire a tag before long. Damn crossbows.
Still think it's strange how in some areas that have had the earliest reports of CWD,mostly western US have very little baiting and other places that have baited or fed corn or feed for years don't have a much different if any CWD case. I just haven't seen any proof that there is a higher instance of deer contracting CWD getting supplemental feed or corn than ones that just eat in ag fields.Some of you act like deer aren't a social animal when they are and bed and groom each other frequently.Saying deer are all getting CWD because they get supplemental feed is like saying it makes sense to bring sharpshooters in to kill every deer within a given area of a CWD positive.
Listen to the podcast from Primos on supplemental feeding Randy. Maybe then you and others will quit poisoning wildlife?
Kansas deer don't need to be supplementally fed, period. Putting out feed attracts other animals, not just deer so it isn't just about deer. Whether its a lack of skill or laziness, some people can't kill a deer without a feeder. CWD or not, hunting over feed isn't fair chase hunting. If you want to hunt deer that way, go to a high fence ranch. Lets get it banned.
In the CWD update during the meeting last week they showed that 75% of the positives in Kansas have come in the last four years. It’s obviously picking up steam. Oklahoma still hasn’t ever recorded a positive in the wild herd, yet there are 10 bordering counties in three states that have. That makes me question their testing program and/or simply suggests it’s just a matter of time.
As Kyle eludes to, I think most involved are starting to realize baiting is about much more than deer.
There have been numerous biologist that have said you will never eradicate CWD just like they never have eradicated anthrax in Texas.I am glad there are a couple of experts here that think they should put people down they don't even know,Really now Primos is a biologist?
From the presentation Saturday, I got the impression that Oklahoma just wasn't testing for CWD.
The Biologists are on the podcast, are we to believe you're the expert Randy?
Buckdeer can you get past CWD and the deer only mentality? It's more than CWD, its an unfair advantage to a deer when being hunted. It also has effects on other animals. Deer aren't the only things in nature drawn to corn. It congregates all species to a small area. Kansas has relative mild winters so no need to feed game of any species. The only advantage to feeding goes to the hunter, it doesn't benefit nature in any way. It draws game into a small area making everything an easy target for predators, spreading disease, etc.
That's correct Marvin, OK doesn't test. The ban(s) are coming, best sell your feeders now...in 2yrs they won't be worth "Grady"
Im glad to hear that baiting could get the axe in the near future. It seems like we’ve pretty well bottomed out, and are beginning to head in the right direction. That’s my hope, at least.
Yep they are starting to listen and realize that the Texas philosophy has hurt KS. Might be a good time to start sending emails about the Any Season Tag and Crossbows.
It’s still confusing to me why units 1, 2, 3 and 7 have lost NR quota over the last couple years due to population declines, yet remain five WT antlerless-only units.
Unless he’s quietly trying to draw whitetail populations even lower with the CWD outbreak and/or attempting to lower competition for the muleys while they struggle?
KB, That is the route they are after. Reduce Whitetail numbers in hopes of increasing the Muley population.
Fair enough. I’m all for helping the muleys. Though there hasn’t been any in a good chunk of 3 and most of 7 for quite a while. And there might not be whitetails much longer in some parts either. Seems like there could be some middle ground with the one and five WTAO program. Even on a county by county basis.
I listened to the entire meeting today, driving to MI. There's some great info and discussions. I wish more would actually listen to the biologists, instead of spouting mis-informed "factoids".
Jeff, I think you'd like the portion on upland/habitat challenges...starts around the 2:35 mark.
Maybe stop killing antlerless muleys would help increase population,dang sito thought maybe one post without calling someone a name.This is whats wrong with the Kansas bowsite.
Several of us went together, bought antlerless Mule deer tags and turned them all back in a few years ago, to make a point.
What or who did I call a name...call me confused.
I haven't got that far yet. I will try and watch this evening.
The whole weekend was a hoot and wish more of you were there. Sito was there for the whole thing but it was still very nice.
I miss you already Dave, you need to come hunt some of my un-poisoned ground next Fall
Dave…thx again for sharing some of your deer jerky. Dang Good!
Buckdeer,
There has not been Antlerless Mule Deer tags for about 10 years. You can still use your EsEs tag and shoot an antlerless Mule Deer. 119 were recoded killed in Unit 1 in previous year. Draw only and a change fo EsEs tag to probit the take of an antlerless Mule Deer.
I don't understand why any true sportsman would continue to kill mule deer unless you have a ranch with a stable population with no threat of other hunters killing more after you leave. My old boss in Clark County owns a ranch and said they were down to less than 30 deer in the whole county and they herd was covering miles and miles, often hunted on multiple properties.
