New Bill, VERY Bad…
Kansas
Just got this from Rep. Blex:
HB 2079 was introduced in AG committee it would allow Kansas lifetime license holders to purchase 2 buck tags and move rifle season up before thanksgiving and give a free anterless tag I will fight but better rally the troops
Joe alerted everyone to this on the Commission Meeting thread, thanks to you both. I've sent my email to the AG Committee, hope everyone else does as well.
Kyle, is there a way to email the entire committee?
Putting this here so everything is on the same thread
Click link ==> scroll down and select click here to download a spreadsheet
Excel shows email address for everyone on this committee (Column AA) . Additional information shows Occupation as well. Only 1 of 17 listed shows Wildlife Biologist.
Only had two returned with those, Kyle. Joe Siewert and Linda Featherstone.
My phone didn’t like the mass text email address for some reason, I sent it individually also, just in case.
I changed the semicolons to commas and worked great on the iPhone. Mr Roth hit back that the herd is doing just fine and rifle season will be going to 19 days. I had to spell out the Thanksgiving on the 28th loophole for him. These folks just throw stuff at the wall obviously. Thankfully that ballot measure failed in November.
The vast majority of them pushing this type of legislation have an agenda and are getting their wallets lined.
Hopefully to keep it fair non residents will get 3 buck tags and maybe unlimited doe tags. At this point I’m hoping that there will still be carp to go fishing for, that’s about all that’ll be left in this state. Can deer feeders disperse fish chum?
These politicians are ruining the Kansas wildlife. That's because they care about one thing and one thing only. Money money money. Dollar dollar bills yall. They don't care if residents have anywhere to hunt or have a good hunting experience.
Deer herd doing just fine. Maybe in the southeast part of the state but everywhere else in the state feels and by what I hear it’s dwindling. Especially further west.
Was talking to the farmer I was on hunting on the last week of the season about the deer numbers in that area. He says he estimated the herd had dropped about a 1/3 in the last four years or so. That’s a lot. This guy works the ground and drives an old rusted out ford so you know he tells the truth.
Surely this bill won’t pass. Sounds about something an outfitter would put in.
"but whomever typed in all those email addresses was a completely illiterate idiot..."
Not an idiot, not even remotely close. Why would they want the correct contact information out there? They don't want to be bothered by us. Might as well make it inconvenient, most will give up quickly.
Well Patrick and Kaleb finger'd it out, but they're like "Gen Z.2"
Side note, what's the next "Gen" gonna be called?
They're going to be The Great Re-set'rs.
What is thoughts on this if you only allowed this for lifetime holders who currently live in the state, as well as decrease non-resident license? Seems to me that you would have formula similar to Iowa, seems like they can shoot multiple bucks each year. No thought that they would do something to reward residents however. Just curious on what everyone's thoughts would be?
Lucas I’m for whatever the deer herd numbers show what you can do. Yes in some areas if you knock out a lot of NRs then it’s possible to let some residents take 2 bucks.
Y’all are letting all the bad practices of Texas creep in but not the good. One thing I do like about here is they break it up into counties. Each county is got there own guidelines on how many deer you can take. One you might be allowed to take 2 bucks where another county you’re allowed only one.
So wish Kansas would start doing that cause when you start talking about herd numbers it varies so much across the state. There is some areas up there that simply cannot handle this.
KSBow....good question. I am a resident life-time hunting license holder and do not support this bill in any way shape or form. As a passionate bowhunter, I don't want to lose a single "archery only" day of the season. If this was already in place, we would have lost approx. 7 days of "archery only" season while at the same time adding another approx. 7 days of gun hunting stress on the statewide herd.
As I have stated in a separate thread, I would be in favor of atleast a 50% reduction in NR licenses....about 15K less NR hunters and a few "other" requests.
Almost everyone (except Jim Willems) that I have heard comment on it seems to think the age structure is suffering and that the trophy quality is diminishing. Making KS a 2 buck state would make a 3 year old the new monarch! A 150" would be the new 200"! And I probably still couldn't kill one without bait...
Webster Ross of Winfield introduced this joke of a bill. Let him hear about it.
He's the only one who responded to my email... " Thanks for your opinion"
Emails sent. Told them that NR hunters are already losing interest in KS. It's common to hear "KS isn't what it used to be". No big bucks = no longer a destination. The state will lose money in the long run if they don't manage for trophy bucks.
Yes it’s Rep. Roth, apparently my phone thinks his name should be Ross. Phones are almost as annoying as some politicians.
"I am a retired wildlife biologist and you are spot on plus in my area I have seen a skewered buck to doe ratio and this bill will increase that problem I will strongly oppose."
Reply from Doug Blex. He's the only one I've heard back from.
I like his use of “skewered.” :)
Doug is a GREAT advocate for us sportsmen.
Doug is a good guy. He lives right up the road from me. We have hunted with he and his kin for many many years.
My reply from Webster Roth: "Thanks for your opinion"
Noone else has responded besides Roth and Blex. I've asked Roth for his stance on this bill and his justifications for his stance. Hope to hear back from him soon.
I wonder if this is a prequel to another push for t-tags.
I've asked Webster Roth for his stance on the bill a couple of times. This is the most I've gotten him to commit about it.
"Parts of it yes and other parts need to be tweaked. We’ll have to see if it even gets out of committee and then if it would be allowed to come to the floor then the Senate has to work it over. It may not even have close to the same wording once it is worked over. Hard to have an opinion on a target that will change. Thanks"
Lol… ok. So what his opinion on the current target? I get what he’s saying, but the way the bill is written now is the issue
I don’t want to run anyone down, but I swear these politicians can divert an opinion or question with ease. Scary.
That was his reply to my question; "I'm just curious; as the bill is worded, what is your stance on it? Are you in favor or opposed? Thanks!"
It was the 2nd time I've asked for clarification on his stance and his justification of it. I suspect he is for the bill and doesn't want to say it outright since my original email was against it.
Response from Gardner...
"Thank you for your thoughtful correspondence and concern for the management of wildlife in Kansas. This issue is important and I am considering your request seriously.
Sincerely,
Rep. Fred Gardner"
As a Kansas resident, I am entering my 4th season of deer hunting. Have been turkey hunting several years. Primarily an archery hunter. Since I am new to the world of hunting politics, would someone be willing to inform me or email me information/talking points to why this bill is not good for Kansas deer hunters so I can research? I am doing my research and plan on calling KDWPT to better understand. I want to help out and plan on emailing the committee as I don't want to see the Kansas mature buck population and deer herd destroyed for future generations. I just want to make sure I am tracking right.
Thanks in advance.
First off, I’d recommend reading the bill.
After that, if you’re truly concerned about the mature Buck population, it will be obvious why this bill is bad.
Cody, KS has a lot of wide open spaces tailor made for effective rifle hunting. Increasing the length of rifle season will allow more mature bucks to be killed, and moving the season closer to the rut will certainly allow more mature bucks to be killed. You can only kill so many of the top tier bucks before you run out of them, then you start in on the next age group down. Making mature bucks easier targets is not good long term management for a state who's goals are trophy class animals.
I have read the bill. Why I am asking here is so I can be informed or pointed in the right direction to do more research as it’s not so obvious to me because I’m new to this. I like to have more of an argument when challenged on the subject instead of “this is bad- I oppose it”
Pro bill arguments- Iowa, two buck state for residents (haven’t heard their mature buck population hurting). Missouri, I believe rifle season starts earlier than Kansas? Private property owner- large deer herd, two mature bucks might be within the owners management plan and can sustain it. Farmer- crop damage every year( kill them all)
Against bill arguments - Drought in areas already stressed herd, Decrease in funding for KDWPT because tag sales. Killing younger bucks more-so as you might have already killed a mature buck on first tag.
Like I stated earlier in my first post, I’m new to this and trying to better understand different points of view to be better informed.
Thanks.
Thank you Catscratch. Exactly the type of perspective I’m trying to better understand.
Just a thought, when e-mailing the committee it is best to keep your information/talking points brief….otherwise it most likely won’t be read. If a long e-mail is indeed read, it will most likely just be quickly scanned…thus losing the impact you had hoped for.
Cody, yes Iowa is 2 deer state that gives very few Non res Deer tags .a decent unit will take 3 to 4 years to draw a tag, the best units takes 6 or more years of applying to draw a tag unlike Kansas that wants the non res money instead of taking care of the residents or deer .
Neither IA or MO allow cheating with bait piles either...no easy button.
CrestedButte, DGW, sitO, Thanks for taking the time to reply. I spoke to a biologist this afternoon as well. I am putting my email together now to send to the committee to oppose this bill.
I like the HOWL for Wildlife platform and I participate with their Action platform regularly. I think most NR (outside of the lifetime holders) would also join in the fight and send letters if needed as well. I reached out to HOWL to be sure they were at least aware of the bill.
Looks like it’s for resident lifetime license holders only, Dylan. I’m a NR LL guy and already sent my emails opposing. Still would oppose if we were included. I have a hard enough time killing one buck these days!
There is four in our family that are LL holders and none of us are for this bill , all the family members that rifle hunt are against it and see no reason for more days.
I just got this from Roth...
"Kyle,
I saw an error on the amendment I gave and following is how it should read:
Amendment to HB2079
Removing lines 1 through 19 and replacing with the following text:
An Act concerning wildlife; relating to the Kansas department of wildlife and parks; establishing a statutory white-tailed deer firearms hunting season.
Be it enacted by the Legislature of the State of Kansas:
Section 1. Each year the Kansas department of wildlife and parks sets season dates for deer hunting in Kansas:
The Secretary of the Kansas Department of wildlife and parks shall establish a fireamrs white-tailed any deer season starting on the Tuesday before Thanksgiving and ending on the Sunday of the second full weekend of December.
Thanks
Web"
Cody - Thanks for reading the bill. I don’t know how many times I’ve talked to people about a bill they are opposing who have never read it.
Honestly, I thought you were a troll, having never seen you post before, so that’s the reasoning for my short response and I apologize. My ignorance for assuming.
With that said, even if the population is way out of control (it is in my area for the most part), this type of legislation will do ZERO to curb the population. You have to focus on the female species to have any major affect on population densities.
Truthfully, two tags in the hands of a responsible hunter/land steward is not a bad thing, but there are a lot of other variables in the state of Kansas which would make it a huge detriment. The major one being baiting. The second one is hunting for profit. I really see this as a gateway to t-tags.
I’m probably one of a few who has ever legally obtained a 2nd buck tag in the state of Kansas and I never did kill 2 bucks in a single year, but I was dang picky… even as a young man. Never was a killer.
Haha, he didn’t see the error. I told him about it and he thanked me. Sorry that it now adds another day to this dumb idea!!
Yes, use second tag to get some support from those that don't care about the herd and then amend that off. And start on Tuesday, what happened to always starting on a Wednesday ? Just never gets better unless you are a politician.
Dan, his goal was/is a 19 (now 20) day season with some uniformity surrounding the holiday. I pointed out that in years Thanksgiving is on the 28th he’d only get a 12 day season with their original language. I guess the Tuesday start and “second full weekend” is what they came up with to provide a consistent season length with the Thanksgiving week timeframe.
If he wanted to do this for only SEK, which I presume is all he cares about, then those discussions should be had by those hunters, biologists, and representatives from that area. Statewide management forced by a politician is ridiculous. Not that that’s new to anyone here.
Ray, there was several years, not sure how many that I had 2 legal buck tags with the left over draw, when all Kansans had to draw a rifle or muzzle loader tag, I just today came across a Ks deer app from 1990 with the number of tags available in each unit. Unit 6 had way less either sex tags for residents than they give the non res now!
So tired and fed up with the way Kansas lets greedy politicians run the deer management nowadays. It's sickening to see what it's become. But that is pretty much all government these days. Never thought I would see the things I've seen in the last 3 years happen.
I got 2 tags several times. Never shot 2 bucks in one season but I did shoot smaller bucks than I normally would have. Most years I either shoot a big buck or just eat tag soup. Having 2 tags let me scratch my itch with a smaller buck, then spend the rest of the season waiting on a giant. So even though I still only shot 1 buck it wasn't exactly good because I was shooting younger bucks than normal. Man that was a long time ago!
Heck, I think I got a 2nd buck only twice…. And if I remember correctly I didn’t even kill one either of those years!
Some great white hunter I am.
There are two busy upland bird weekends, opening weekend and Thanksgiving weekend. SO, let's turn 90,000 center fire hunters out there at the same time.
Just finished the first Board of Game cycle for the area I live in Alaska since I became a resident. Interested parties are allowed to submit proposals once every three years for a given region. There’s a lengthy comment period where biologists, law enforcement and the public all weigh in. The issues that make the cut are then presented to a seven member committee, similar to the KDWP commission, with a brief Q&A involving the professionals and each are voted on by the committee. Four or more supporting votes and proposals are written into the regs the following regulatory year. One out of my three proposals carried and a second turned down because a similar version had just been accepted prior. What a way to make management decisions. Refreshing.
Fairchild and Roth seem to be the ones to watch if you feel a sharp pain in your back.
I have been doing a lot of research about his bill since my initial post. Last evening I got home and took a ride around several properties that I can hunt. Several I knew were holding a lot of deer so really wanted to see what bucks were still carrying. Anyway good friend who is an actual wildlife biologist was riding along BSing and this topic was discussed. Seems pretty clear in the areas that I hunt anyway if they really wanted to help the herd they would be giving away free doe tags. While we still have a lot of good bucks around we also have a bunch of 2-3 year olds that will never see 5-6. This is no way a post of saying that everyone should strive to shoot older deer, far from it shoot what make you happy no judgement here. However if passed in my opinion this would further decimate our declining age class in state that was once known for it.
Hell yea shoot em all. I think everyone should get a herd permit for free. Here's one I'll be pushing every resident that buys a gallon of milk gets a free doe tag. Gotta save the grass for them cows.
I think late winter food sources are a tricky measure for deer populations. I may have 20+ does on a bean field any given afternoon right now, but I know some of those deer moved from over a mile away to get there. I prefer to count does in family groups while they are separated into their own bedding area's later in the spring, and combine that with a browse survey. My way of thinking is that if native food sources are keeping up or outgrowing herd pressures then the overall numbers are ok. Age structure is a completely different beast though.
I cannot even believe that this is a thought. Numbers are so bad out west.....so let's add tags and move the season to when they are more vulnerable. Someone's buddy has given the idea.....
I received this response back from Jason Probst:
Thank you for sharing your concerns with me.
Growing up in rural Kansas and spending most of my life hunting, fishing, and enjoying the Kansas outdoors, I am very aware of the effort and thought required to effectively manage our state’s natural resources. As such, I will not support HB2079. It makes significant changes to the hunting seasons and licensing that could harm our state’s whitetail population, and it doesn’t include adequate input or information from Kansas hunters or wildlife biologists.
Thanks again for reaching out and for being engaged in our state’s policy decisions.
Jason
I've heard from the following and had good conversations with a couple of them. Jason Probst- Opposed Linda Featherstone- Opposed Fred Garner- Opposed Doug Blex- Opposed
Webster Roth- For (it's to get families to spend time together over the holidays) hasn't returned my follow-up.
Thanks Chris! I got the same response from Probst, and thanked him.
From Jason Probst -
"Thank you for sharing your concerns with me.
Growing up in rural Kansas and spending most of my life hunting, fishing, and enjoying the Kansas outdoors, I am very aware of the effort and thought required to effectively manage our state’s natural resources. As such, I will not support HB2079. It makes significant changes to the hunting seasons and licensing that could harm our state’s whitetail population, and it doesn’t include adequate input or information from Kansas hunters or wildlife biologists.
Thanks again for reaching out and for being engaged in our state’s policy decisions."
Webster Roth has been very frustrating for me to correspond with. Getting a straight answer is difficult if not impossible.
Families who rifle hunt don’t spend time together over the holidays, eh?
Anyone who wants to hunt over Thanksgiving has plenty of options. Pick up a bow/crossgun, kick up some birds or throw out some decoys. That’s just a feel-good coverup for trying to get your rifle-only cronies more of the rut.
Adding Linda Featherston to the opposition. She mentioned the bill has not had a hearing nor does she expect it to.
It’s actually pretty encouraging to read the updates on this. It’s a nice change of pace.
Very few responses have been received on my end. One other thing to keep in mind on the MO and IA comparisons is that we have 1/3 of the deer herd, probably 1/8th of the cover and baiting. Not something they should be mirroring practices and if the influx of hunters from states that have been ruined, it takes absolute money hungry fools to realize we have had a good thing at one point in time. I think it's safe to say we have all seen terrible changes in our lifetime, but I see us being the next Illinois unfortunately.
All that have responded back to me have opposed except Fairchild and Roth and their reasoning is very uneducated
Response from Michael Murphy;
This bill is being worked in the Ag Budget committee. It’s my understanding it has changed significantly, I do not know much more than that.
Here is a petition with an opposition letter. Real easy to use.
I got the exact same response from Michael Murphy that MBabs did.
Thanks Matte for the link!
I would think members of Pheasant forever and Quails forever would be fighting this also if they even know about the bill. Like Dave Easton pointed out huge upland weekend for most families and has been for a long time.
Working on my emails since it’s too nasty to work outside. Got a quick and good response from Mr. Probst like y’all said. Just sent one to Roth to try and change his mind.
Well I might have been the only one of us to actually speak on the phone with Webster Roth as I believe he actually picked up the wrong line when I called. Anyway…never missing out on a good opportunity, I introduced myself and told him where I was from. Then proceeded to outline a lot of the same stuff that has been said on the board here. He actually listened and heard me out until I finished.
Then came his reply that changed the whole dynamic of the conversation as it was littered with self agenda, lies, excuses and just bad science. Also talked to me in a very condescending tone. I then proceeded to tell him that I am getting fed up with these ridiculous bills that he and especially Corbet keep drafting up and attempting to push thru the House as they are just a big waste of time and resources on everyone’s part in trying to pass and oppose them.
Anyway….he returned a few choice words and I then told him I have no doubt this bill will be defeated and that the next time he drafts up another bill like this that he will be seeing/hearing me in his office instead of over the phone.
As I said goodbye, I asked him “do you understand what I am telling you and what I mean?” He said “I sure do Mr. Adams” and then hung up! What nerve! ;?)
Lol!!! That is great Crested!!! Caught me off guard at the end, good thing I wasn't drinking something at the moment or else I'd be cleaning my keyboard!
Well, to be honest, I told him I'd come at him like a spider monkey so....
Classic!!! Lol Nice job crested!
Thanks for that laugh.. good stuff
How big a boy are ya, Mr Kyle D. “By God” Adams? You look pretty wirey to me!
Reply I got after filling out Matte's link: Dear Concerned Citizen:
"Thank you for your email. I oppose HB2079 and any effort to manage deer through the Legislature. Trained biologists should be making those decisions.
Sincerely,
Will Carpenter
75th District Representative"
Just got a good reply back from Mr. Loveless on the baiting ban. Sent him a probably too long of an email but wanted him to take me serious. Sounds like a good guy.
Brad is good, he's usually at the KBA Convention too
That’s what Wenzel just told me and that’s something I didn’t know but it’s good to know. Hope to see him there. I think I might try to get some local landowners up there involved in the KBA. Don’t think it would hurt anything for all of us to get some big ranchers and farmers on our side and let them know what the KBA is trying to accomplish.
I worked with Brad on a project at our school when I was a principal.
He came out, helped plant trees, his organization covered the cost and he gave a very informative lesson to our kids about snakes… it was awesome. He’s the real deal, when it comes to conservation.
Also, when he got his job with KDWP I was jealous. I always thought I wanted that job, it was a dream for a few years… but I realize now, that I likely would have been fired in the first few weeks.
Ray, you're doing good things in other areas...keep pushing!
Sounds like everyone is doing a good job of contacting their reps, but stay on top of this. The usual thing is that if it fails in this committee, it will get moved somewhere else to see if they can get any traction. KEEP AFTER EM!!
Response I got back from Leo Delperdang.
This crap has Ken Corbet written all over it.
Just talked to Doug Blex here at a ballgame. He said they moved the bill to the ag budget committee. It was meeting too much resistance in the ag committee. He also said Corbet is behind it all and it will probably have transferable tags attached to it too before long. :-/
We need a list of folks on that committee now I reckon
Reply from Lisa Moser;
"Greetings Jason,
Thank you for reaching out with your concerns about HB 2079. Please know that I share your sentiments. Allowing two buck tags and extending the rifle season by starting it just after Thanksgiving would adversely affect the bow hunting period and ultimately devastate our mature buck population. Kansas would soon lose its draw as the home of big bucks. As a northeast Kansas landowner, lifelong rancher, having a son who farms, and having family members who hunt both in bow and in rifle season, I, and my entire family have an admiration for the whitetail deer herds in our area and all across the state. Their numbers and the current hunting seasons, monitored closely by the Kansas Department of Wildlife and Parks, should not be controlled by legislation, but rather by the biologists at the KDW&P, who know what is best for the deer populations in Kansas. The KDW&P was not consulted concerning the development of HB 2079. I will not be supporting this legislation if it would ever come to a vote.
Again, I appreciate you contacting me with your thoughts.
Regards,
Lisa Moser".
If someone comes up with a new list of email addresses please post it!
If your a member of the KBA, I provided the list you are now seeking per an e-mail blast sent out last weekend. Just another small benefit of being a KBA member.
House Committee on Agriculture and Natural Resources Budget:
Chair: [email protected] 785 296-7679
Vice Chair: [email protected] 785-296-7647
Committee Asst: [email protected] 785-296-7679
Ranking Minority Member: [email protected] 785-296-7657
Committe Members:
[email protected] 785-296-7371
[email protected] 785-296-7654
[email protected] 785-296-7430
[email protected] 785-296-7665
[email protected] 785-296-7616
[email protected] 785-296-7637
Note: It is my understanding that you can contact Committee Assistant Josh Gosser [email protected] 785-296-7679 and request to be placed on the list to testify at a hearing on any bill including this one. Then even if you have forgotten all about it or stopped keeping track of it........if it ever makes it to the floor for a hearing (by law) they have to call the people on that list to make them aware of scheduled time/date for public testimony/comments.
So, how serious are you about this....does it matter enough to you to put a full tank of gas in your AMC Gremlin and drive up to Topeka (eat at Bobo's Drive-In) and then testify at future hearing if it comes to that?
Also...here is a link to the recent Fiscal Note (dated Feb. 1, 2023) from KDWP concerning potential lost revenue ($604,000.00/year) as a result of HB 2079. If you ask me, KDWP's dollar amount could be a tad light once "real" lost revenue is realized.
Thanks crested, I reached out to these committee members this evening. Some of them are a part of both committees.
Chair:
[email protected] 785 296-7679
Vice Chair: [email protected] 785-296-7647
This is what happens when politicians continue to get voted into office election after election. Seeing these two listed as Chair and Vice Chair, I will guarantee you that t-tags and many other ridiculous wildlife amendments will be added this year.
Too bad some of the national org. cannot come help us. Really feal like KS is one of the last holdouts to commercialization. Maybe big money just talks too loud.
T-tags will be back no doubt
I personally spoke with one of the House Reps yesterday regarding this. He feels this is being ramrodded by Corbet as a way to backdoor transferable tags. Corbet couldn't get this done with the past Reps, so he buddied up with a bunch of the incoming House Reps who didn't know better and is trying to get them to help him with his agenda. No proof of this, just a very educated assumption. The Rep I spoke with didn't really think this bill would pass, but it's being used as a way to bundle several items on one bill down the road, with T-tags being one of them. If T-tags get lumped in with other items that a lot of folks are in favor of, it will get passed unless we can get them removed prior to voting. He's keeping a close eye on this as he's never been a fan of legislators determining wildlife policy. Even if HB2079 fails, we need to keep paying attention. Next time the opportunity comes up, Corbet needs to be voted out of office. He's the perfect example of a self-serving politician.
Not that I think it’ll ever happen in Kansas, but what would be the pathway for the legislature to completely turnover wildlife management to KDWP? A bill stating as much? Would all these reps saying they’d rather see decisions made by biologists be willing to back something like that?
Two very good ideas above: vote out the guy who keeps pushing this stuff (Corbet), and try to get management back into the biologist's hands.
Good question KB, I’m assuming it would not be backed by many reps simply because it opens a door for more non-elected people making policy. In most cases, I would agree with their sentiment.
Seldom do politicians give up any power that they now have. I understand the leg. acquired the power due to strong differences with a past director, who I might add was a politician too.
