Contributors to this thread:
Right now the cost for a guide license in Wisconsin is $40. Come on! I think this should be a minimum of $5000 and stricter reporting and operating requirements. I’d also propose the outfitter loose their right to guide after one violation.
Where is this coming from? Last time I had a guide license it was $35.00 so they did raise the price. Outside of bear hunting and a few deer outfitters over in Buffalo County and there was a couple up around Lake Superior there are very few guides. Most are sold to fishing guides and if on the Mississippi or the Great Lakes being federal waters you also need a Captains license.
Problem with a guide recently?
Wi. Guide lic is sort of a joke, pay $40 and your a licensed guide, that is it, no exam, no background check, no nothing, oh well except for application filled out and $40. Really sorta meaningless in the real world. Conversation piece if ya frame it and put it on the wall. Look at me I am a licensed guide in Wisconsin. Geez that might be worth the $40.
Think of it this way. We as hunters pay for privileges to hunt. For the privilege to harvest one deer bow hunting it’s roughly $30.
Now for an example, take a bear guide. They might have 20 to 40 baits. Run hounds for months. Be responsible for killing maybe 20 bears. $40 doesn’t come close to enough cost for the pressures they place on the resource.
Ultimately the state wants to get a piece of the pie. Think about it this way. If a guy takes people out hunting and fishing without a license and charges just cash, there's even less accountability. There are good and bad people in every profession. The only thing that might truly set them apart, is the tax ID they have. Now I'm not a proponent of taxation to the level it is, so I don't even wish that upon the worst of the worst. The resource is available for all of us. I'm not sure I'd want someone to pay more, no matter the amount of pressure they place on the resource. The only reason I say this, is the 10 percenters. 10 percent of the population kills and catches 90% of the available fish and game. Should they pay more, because they are better? It's just a slippery slope, and as a Libertarian, I despise infringement lol. I always wonder why or how people would ever ask for more governmental "assistance", when it's been proven time and time again, that their "stealing" from the "common man" gives very little back to the "common man"?
Is the price of a guide license too cheap? Perhaps? I'd only ask what would satisfy you, and what would you expect the state to do, to give you some kind of return that would ultimately make you say: "That's a fair price to be a guide, a taxidermist, a trapper, a hunter, a fisherman, a trail walker, a photographer, a forager, a sight seer........." Ultimately, that list is long, and perhaps there's someone out there that's not satisfied that anyone doing anything is paying their fair share?
LMAO, should we just ban hunting for the pressure we put on the resources? How to say you’re against hound hunting without saying it.
Ratoney, the guide is simply aiding the client to his/her game animal. Each & every person who hunts with a guide is still required to purchase all applicable licenses. Those licenses, be them for a resident or non-resident, is what grants the privilege to take the animal. In that manner, each person pays the same amount as you or I do for the resource.
Drop tine, I have no problem with most hound hunters. Think it’s a cool way to hunt if that’s what you choose to do.
My point is the cost to guide doesn’t equate with the pressures they put on the resources. $40 ?
A fishing guide might be on the water 10 or 20 times more than an average fisherman. Why shouldn’t they have to pay more? Using a PUBLIC resource as is Wi game and fish to make money….yeah i think they should pay more.
Truckers pay to use the roads, guides should pay their fair share, and that’s well short of $40.
Think $5000 is close to the mark.
One of the stupidest threads ever posted on B.S.
So MjF, you don’t care about the public’ s woods and waters? And how they are protected?
Have you ever posted on here before? If you have, you would know the answer to your question. Another troll is what B.S. doesn’t need.
MjF…You’re the one who said the topic was stupid. Your words. So I asked you a question why and that makes me troll?
I thought this was a discussion site. Maybe the reason you said my post was stupid was because you didn’t want to discuss the idea.
Only guessing here, but maybe you’re a guide who doesn’t like the idea of paying a fairer price for a guide license?
Fairer price, not even close to being a fairer price. What made you post this in the first place? What would be fair is for Guide Services required to carry insurance, certification in first aid including CPR. So you want bear guides to be charged $5000 for a guides license for a 1 month season?
Good points. I think insurance and the cpr requirements are solid ideas to start.
So I’m curious, what would your fair price be? $2000, $1000…?
The return profit of an owner of a Bear Guide service is very little, most Bear guides are not in it for the money, either are hound hunters. I like the $40 fee
MjF, you said the return for most bear guides is very little. What do you base this on? Most of the bear guides I hear of clear between $500 to a few thousand per bear.
To me, that seems like quite a bit of money.
Would you share your costs if they differ from mine?
Anyone ever get a guide license just to get “pro” pricing on gear and what not? < insert lower voice > Sitka .. cough cough … Kuiu.. cough cough… First Lite … cough cough
"A fishing guide might be on the water 10 or 20 times more than an average fisherman. Why shouldn’t they have to pay more? Using a PUBLIC resource as is Wi game and fish to make money….yeah i think they should pay more." Do you propose to charge private fishermen who fish more than the "average" guy does? I am a fishing guide. That does not allow me to take any more fish (the resource) than any other person with a fishing license. If we caught and sold fish then you'd have an argument, but we do not.
"Truckers pay to use the roads, guides should pay their fair share, and that’s well short of $40." Trucks cause wear and tear to the roads, far above what the average vehicle does to a road. A fishing guide does not "use or cause water to be lost," other than to ride on it, much the same as a ski boat, a private fishing boat or a pleasure boat does.
So CaptMike, being a guide, you don’t want to pay more or have oversight, not really a surprise. But think about this, hunters and fishermen pay for privileges, but unlike guides, dont make any money. There lies the difference. You are making money using public resources without paying anymore for them. Just like loggers pay to harvest public owned timber, guides should have to pay to make money off the public.
Guiding is a business, what’s wrong with that. I think it’s time you get booted off Bowsite again.
I do pay, for a sport fishing license, in addition to a captains license. Those licenses do not allow me to take any fish whatsoever. Each of my clients must adhere to the rules and limits that apply equally to all who buy a license. What part of this do you not not understand? And, since you ignored my responses to your earlier points, I have to assume you have none. This applies equally to all guides, regardless what they are guiding for.
MjF…I agree with you, guiding is a business. So I’m asking folks to consider what the fair price those businesses should pay to use public resources? And I never got kicked off the site. Seems like you have some thin skin. Are you a guide? I’m not.
CaptMike…if you can’t admit you guiding affects the public resources, you’re in denial or just plain lying. Curious, did you ever gift fish to another person?
We all agree, there needs to be license fees and most hunters and fishermen don’t mind paying their share. My original intent is to get folks to consider increasing the state guiding fee to more align with the pressures guides are placing on the public’s woods and waters.
The guides are merely helping hunters and fishermen fill their " paid for " tags. They do not get extra of any resource.
In other words, I do not see guides as profiting off the state resources, they are profiting from hunters and fishermen paying for their outfitting fees. All clients have paid the state for the right to hunt and fish and must abide by game and fish laws.
There are quotas to Protect the resources. Guides and outfitters just provide a service to clients no different than anyone else in the service industry.
Mjf +++ Another liberal that wants your money for their agenda. Bidenomics
Arrow1…my voting history would make you look like Nancy Pelosi by comparison.
If asking people to pay for what they use is liberal, call me Obama.
Merry Christmas. Peace onto man.
Dumbest Thread of the Year:
So now it’s dumb to talk about fees directly tied to fishing and hunting?
Simply put, I believe guides and outfitters negatively affect hunters experiences, so in turn, should have to pay for using the public woods and waters.
Bear hunting costs, For only my personal hunting I run 3 bait sites. Start out bating every three days, 30 days before every two days, 10 before every day. Mileage: 3 sites 70 miles a day, truck mileage: $37.45 a day UTV: 7 miles: $3.75 Mileage for 3 baits per run: $41.20 per day $41.20 x 45 days travel all prior to season: $1854.00
Bait: 3 barrels misc mix: $70.00: $210.00 Nuts: 50 lb box: $60.00 Popcorn, un-popped til I pop it: $18.00 per bag
Scent: James Valley: $50.00
If I were guiding, I also need to provide binds or stands. Possible housing and food if part of pkg. Guides I looked up or have seen around central WI and North on line depending on room and board charge $1000.00 to $2500.00 Dogs imagine the expense with training season, food, vet bills, etc.
My last bear two years ago weighed #410, shot second evening, second bear I seen. Cost me with out incidentals: $2189.00 Worth it every scent. Now that is just my own personal bear hunt. I skinned and processed all myself as well. If I am guiding hunters and running 20-40 baits ouch. But it is a passion and a love. I help my buddy in NW Ontario at his camp, there is so much joy in helping people achieve their dream they are paying for to harvest.
Think about the impact these businesses have on the local economy as well??? Tourism industry is huge and they all help it out plus taxes.
Guiding or not, people already pay for Federal and County public lands, no need to pay more.
Screwball your last sentence said it all.
Think about the impact these businesses have on the local economy as well??? Tourism industry is huge and they all help it out plus taxes.
Screwball spot on. Many folks could not enjoy Great Lakes Fishing, or bear hunting without the services of a guide.
Ratoney: Oh course it's not "dumb to talk about fees directly tied to fishing and hunting." It is your logic that sinks the argument. If guides negatively affect hunting experiences as you say, they would have no clients. It appears your argument is grounded in jealousy plain and simple.
So we all agree that guides use our public resources. I’m just asking that they pay an appropriate fee for the privilege.
Why even have a guide fee if they don’t affect the resource or grounds? The state and voters already have it in place. I’m just asking it be increased to an appropriate amount.
I’m not a guide. When you respond, please let us know if you are.
Most bear hunting guides use very little of public lands, most are on private.
MjF…I noticed you didn’t respond to my question. So you are a guide?
Ratoney:
Don't be a Karen; mobilize your Army of 1 and do something about it to effect change?
Quit whining here and get off your ass and actually do something? Call your local conservation congress delegate who can coach you up! You can do it
HF43
It’s kinda funny that a guy with a handle that includes hunt and fish in it doesnt want people to discuss hunting and fishing topics. Another guide perhaps?
I guess in your world a person is a Karen if they point out facts that run counter to your opinions.
Again, back to the topic, what do you think the guide license fee should be increased to? Maybe the original $5000 is too much. Maybe $2000 for hunting and $2000 for fishing privileges?
For the sake of transparency, please post if you guide when commenting. I do not guide.
I would venture to guess that a very low percentage of licensed guides actually do a lot of guiding or make any profit. Most do it for prestige and a tax break. Back in the 90's they had a thing where any of the "guides" on the Chippewa Flowage who did not catch a musky in the month of June had to wear a dress to Herman's Landing on a certain Saturday. Not sure how many guides there were in the area at that time but there were more than 20 bearded ladies at the bar that day I witnessed it.
Those guys who do guide full time and make a living at it often bring people into our state for the opportunity which results in additional license sales. Sure there can be too much of a good thing, and guides can over exploit certain spots, but donating extra money to the WDNR isn't going to offset that or improve the resource.
Missouri - So am I now. Great post screwball
I am not a guide but help anyone that asks, plus family of course. I know one guide in WI. One in Ontario. I know many hunters. We are already overtaxed in this state and country, a license or fee is a tax, any time the government takes money it is a tax just different names. I hunt only our family lands, occasionally a neighbor we are very close with, for turkey. Rat, the correct answer is not to increase anything for the government, the answer is eliminate all license-taxes and fees. We are all over taxed and accessed already. Landowners should never have to buy any type of outdoor license to harvest on their own land, the over taxed property they sacrificed to own and maintain.
B2K - You are so right on not making a profit. After the bills are paid, gas, food, bait stands, etc. there is hardly enough to buy a good dinner. We do it because we love bear hunting. We give a great quality hunt. There are too many guides today that are in it just for the money. They could give a shit if their clients get a good quality hunt.
B2K…what if the extra license revenue was earmarked for stocking and enforcement? Would you consider supporting the idea? Makes sense that guides who make a living off of our public lands, would be tasked with helping cover those costs.
Like I said before, with only a month bear season there’s no money to be made and this clown wants to raise the price for a guides license.
Stocking what? Again raise a fee to employ more government employees? What a total waste of my money. Stupid Enforcement: more over government regulation and wasting of our money. The WDNR is so overstaffed and wastes so much of our money it is ridiculous. And corrupt! Oh I know lets waste millions more on the sky is falling cwd, it has killed so many people.
"Makes sense that guides who make a living off of our public lands"... Ratoney,,,, PLEASE share with us the guides you know that are making a "Living" off of their knowledge to help others that don't have the resources or time to to have a chance at being successful after waiting 10 to 11 years for a bear tag.
I’m sure we will hear from Rat sometime after 8am when he gets on his work computer
How do bear guides make a living off their hunts? This isn’t out west where you pay for a few days and you're done and the next group shows up. With prices in the $8000.00 to $15000.00 range. Figure in bear bait, gas, maintenance on equipment, insurance. Then the houndsmen have feed and veterinary bills also. It would take a hell of a lot of hunters to make a living in a few weeks of the season with $1200.00 - $1500.00 prices.
In the group I ran with we always had one of us that had a guide license. Without it, it was illegal for a hunter to tip, buy a lunch, or top off a gas tank, let alone pay a hunt fee. We mostly hunted for family and friends but would take a couple hunters to make some money to buy bait the next year.
DT Rat is just here to just stir the pot, that’s his sole mission.
MjF… man am I glad that you have so much to add to the conversation. Still waiting for you to answer my question.
Screwball…I guess I understand your response based off your handle. “No regulation, no taxes, everyone should do what they want regardless how it affects the resource or other sportsmen!” You are a crack pot! I hope you don’t call yourself a hunter? any reasonable hunter cares about conservation and clearly you do not.
And yeah, guides do make a living using public grounds and waters regardless of what some might say.
Here’s an idea, don’t like a price increase, how about not charging anything?
Bring it!
"Dumbest of the year" Add this to the top 5
All be damned if I’m going to help you.
Dumb A## returns. Dumbest yep. No more feeding the troll all.
Here’s an idea, don’t respond if you think it’s a dumb idea to ask guides to pay their fair share.
To be clear ,
1. Guides use the public’s resources. 2. I’m asking guides to pay a fair rate for using the public resources. 3. Nic, MjF and Screwy say that’s it’s a stupid idea.
Mmmm….wonder why they would think that?
I am genuinely trying to have a constructive debate. How about adding something of substance instead of the name calling?
MI is going to charge for guide license. Some requirements, fee is $150.00 for 3 years.
That's reasonable, I think. Of course if your a liberal, you would probably want that a month, plus a usage tax, a climate change effect tax, a resource user tax, etc etc.
Guides are not consumptive users of the resource. In addition, they are part of the “public” and therefore allowed access to it, just as any other person is. When guides start taking more more than Joe Public can, I will support addition licensing costs for them.
Capt…interesting thought. I’d ask you this? How many paid days do you spend on the water a year? How many unpaid?
Bologna - will you accept nunya as an answer and slither away please.
change your handle to annoying next go around.
No offense, and I don't want to sound arrogant, but on UP public land, I am better than alot of guides. I signed up as a mentor this last year, no response. Will try again next yea4. Love to have someone, to help out. I learned a little in my life.
10-15 times more paid than unpaid. And through every one of those paid days, I never take even one single fish on the limit I am allowed to take.
People in general put pressures on the natural resources, hunting, fishing, berry picking, 4wheeling etc I think every license should go up 10 folds, that will take care of most outdoor enthusiasts, DNR s mission accomplished.
Ratoney, how would you propose it be done? Will there be a logbook a person must fill out each time they visit a natural resource? What might be the cut-off number of visits that differentiates a guide from a citizen user? I assume this would be important to you as your concern is the amount of pressure put on a resource. I have many more questions for you to answer regarding this but let's start with the easy one. How would you determine the amount of pressure each individual is allowed to put on the resources before they start getting charged.
Capt. Don't forget the hikers and the idiots walking the ice age trail that trespass all over on private. I would be in favor of actual enforcement (like do their job), for trespassers. Start at $1000, then dbl each occurrence
Rat response to your calling me screwy: What I seek is limited government, period as desired by our founding fathers, and as designed in the Constitution. .
Screwball, I agree completely. My question to Ratoney applies to ALL users of the resources. Just trying to get him to think a bit beyond the surface. Yep, I am all in favor of less government instead of more.
Me thinks Ratoney is mixing his meds with booze.
