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Front Range Mt Lion meetings scheduled
Colorado
Contributors to this thread:
Paul@thefort 09-Feb-24
cnelk 09-Feb-24
Ziek 10-Feb-24
Paul@thefort 10-Feb-24
Orion 10-Feb-24
Jaquomo 11-Feb-24
Orion 11-Feb-24
Jaquomo 11-Feb-24
Orion 11-Feb-24
Hondolane 12-Feb-24
Hondolane 12-Feb-24
Hondolane 12-Feb-24
Bent arrow 12-Feb-24
Jaquomo 13-Feb-24
Paul@thefort 13-Feb-24
Orion 13-Feb-24
cnelk 13-Feb-24
Jaquomo 13-Feb-24
Orion 13-Feb-24
Orion 13-Feb-24
Ziek 13-Feb-24
Orion 13-Feb-24
Hondolane 13-Feb-24
Jaquomo 13-Feb-24
Glunt@work 14-Feb-24
tradi-doerr 14-Feb-24
Paul@thefort 14-Feb-24
Orion 14-Feb-24
Paul@thefort 14-Feb-24
Keepitreal 15-Feb-24
Keepitreal 15-Feb-24
Keepitreal 15-Feb-24
antler1 18-Feb-24
Keepitreal 18-Feb-24
Mathewsphone 22-Feb-24
Ziek 23-Feb-24
Sandbrew 23-Feb-24
Orion 23-Feb-24
Hondolane 23-Feb-24
Hondolane 23-Feb-24
Keepitreal 24-Feb-24
Paul@thefort 24-Feb-24
Jaquomo 24-Feb-24
Keepitreal 25-Feb-24
Mathewsphone 26-Feb-24
Mathewsphone 26-Feb-24
Jaquomo 26-Feb-24
Mathewsphone 27-Feb-24
COLO 3-D 27-Feb-24
Paul@thefort 27-Feb-24
Barkeater 30-Apr-24
From: Paul@thefort
09-Feb-24
DENVER - Colorado Parks and Wildlife (CPW) will be holding eight public meetings between Feb. 22 and March 7, 2024, to provide the public with important information about mountain lion management on the East Slope and hear their feedback before preparing a draft East Slope Mountain Lion Management Plan. At these public meetings, CPW will present information on mountain lions in Colorado, share details on the upcoming East Slope Mountain Lion Management Plan and listen to what members of the public think about mountain lions around their communities.

CPW will be holding six in-person meeting opportunities across the East Slope, as well as two virtual meeting opportunities. A full list of meeting times and locations is available below:

In-person meetings: Evergreen: Thursday, Feb. 22, 6 p.m. - 7:30 p.m. Evergreen Fire Station #2, 1802 Bergen Parkway, Evergreen, CO 80439 Trinidad: Friday, Feb. 23, 6 p.m. - 7:30 p.m. Trinidad State College, Sullivan Center, 600 Prospect St., Trinidad, CO 81082 Florence: Monday, Feb. 26, 6 p.m. - 7:30 p.m. Pathfinder Park Event Center, 6655 State Hwy 115, Florence, CO 81226 Golden: Monday, Feb. 26, 6 p.m. - 7:30 p.m. Jefferson County Open Space, Ponderosa Room, 700 Jefferson County Parkway, Golden, CO 80401 Livermore: Tuesday, Feb. 27, 6 p.m. - 7:30 p.m. Livermore Community Hall, 2044 W CR 74E, Livermore, CO 80536 Colorado Springs: Thursday, March 7, 6 p.m. - 7:30 p.m. Hillside Community Center, 925 S. Institute St, Colorado Springs, CO 80903 Virtual meetings: Thursday, Feb. 29, 6 p.m. - 7:30 p.m. Click this link to register Wednesday, March 6, 6 p.m.- 7:30 p.m. Click this link to register In-person and virtual meeting attendees will be able to learn more about how mountain lion populations are researched and managed on the East Slope and how humans and mountain lions interact in the region with a brief CPW presentation at the beginning of each meeting followed by additional information and discussion.

From: cnelk
09-Feb-24
The CPW will be commenting on lion Hunting before they can’t comment on Lion Hunting

From: Ziek
10-Feb-24
Paul. Why is this limited to East Slope management? I can see this going badly. Cougar hunting is already problematic on the East Slope because of the problem with running hounds across much of the area due to small private landholdings. What they come up with for the East Slope might be used against us in the rest of the state.

In other news though, a couple or more pets have recently been attacked by cougars in Summit County. Might help our cause if given more press. Although, similar events really didn't help in the late '80s in the Boulder area, as was related in the book The Beast in the Garden by David Baron. Most residents there at the time were evidently willing to sacrifice some of their pets to the "needs" of hungry cougars even as some residents were attacked, or at least confronted by them. (It's been a while since I read the book.) Might want to check it out to get a better idea of how these animal rights whackos keep winning.

From: Paul@thefort
10-Feb-24
In the year, 2020, a West Slope mt lion plan was presented to the CPW commission as well as to the public. Now Mark Viera, CPW Carnivore and Furbearer program manager will show and discuss the East, Front Range Mt Lions study/ Plan, in those locations. While I doubt the subject of Ballot Initiative 91 will come up by CPW staff, some one attending might bring it up but I doubt there will be a response from CPW staff as the Initiative has been approved and filed by the Sec of State. No doubt he will be singing mostly to the choir, at the meetings when he will be presenting this study, those that might not support the current Initiative to ban hunting but also he might convince some others that there is science behind lion management and that the ban is not in the best interest of Colorado.

As you know, our society has changed a lot during the past 50 plus years, from less rural to more urban. More and more unban dwellers as Mutualist, view wildlife as capable of relationships of trust with humans. They also believe that humans and wildlife are meant to co exist or live in harmony, and thus wildlife deserve rights similar to the rights of humans. This is why Ballot Initiative, ie Ballot Box Biology, is popular to take the management of wildlife out of the hands of the DOW/CPW department. We saw that with trapping, spring bear hunting, wolf reintroduction and now mt lion, bobcats. Yea, I am very aware of the many anti hinting organizations and extreme animal right groups that are behind this Initiative and others. Do not be surprised that the next Ballot Initiative in Colorado will be to ban bear hunting. Recent surveys concerning public opinions about Mt Lion hunting show that those voters are nearly 50/50 for or against hunting as a management tool. I believe these meetings are good as many social scientists, in today's world, believe that the public needs to be aware and involved in all game management decision. No doubt, CPW also is aware of the need to involve all citizens in wildlife management or if not, they will pay the price with more and more Ballot Initiatives thus these meeting. Like it or not, that is the way of the future.

From: Orion
10-Feb-24
Ziek why are you even commenting on this?

From: Jaquomo
11-Feb-24
Ziek, did you vote for Polis?

From: Orion
11-Feb-24
He voted for him twice and defends it on here religiously. He's part of the problem not the solution.

From: Jaquomo
11-Feb-24
Paul, the Animal Rights zealots have found a winning formula for Colorado. 1. Demand that the Commission do whatever they say, "or else". 2. Go public and claim the Commission doesn't listen to "the people". 3. Gain commitments for huge money from out-of-state. 4. Buy their way onto the ballot.

As long as people like Ziek continue to enable the appointment of animal rights Commissioners, we will drift closer and closer to a Commission that simply caves to the demands, even encourages them.

My predictions - lion and bobcat hunting will be outlawed. Bears and coyotes will be next. Within five years there will be license set-asides for certain approved minorities a part of the runaway DEI initiative inside the Commission. Within 10 years bowhunting will be on the ballot, and Colorado will be the first state to outlaw it, if the Leftist Commission doesn't end, or severely restrict it first.

From: Orion
11-Feb-24
I'm sure ziek will be along shortly and ignore the questions and brag about his service to CBA. Too bad his voting cancelled out anything he did for CBA, which according to many higher ups I spoke to wasn't much and a couple of guys confirmed that he is a royal douche

From: Hondolane
12-Feb-24
100%^^^

From: Hondolane
12-Feb-24
100%^^^

From: Hondolane
12-Feb-24
100%^^^

From: Bent arrow
12-Feb-24
Lets hope the sportsmen in Colorado will stand up and help defeat this initiative. Complaining does nothin. Actions r needed.m

From: Jaquomo
13-Feb-24
Many sportsmen in Colorado will vote to ban lion hunting, just like they vote for an anti-hunter for governor, voted to basically end bear hunting, voted to end trapping, voted for wolf dumping.

From: Paul@thefort
13-Feb-24
Lou. How many is considered many? Many is defined as a large number. But, what does a large number actually mean? In the case of a nine-person party, many might mean five, six, seven, or eight. However, in the case of 20,000 concertgoers, many would probably mean over 7,000 or 8,000–the exact number is indistinct.

So if there are 250,000 big game hunters , residents, that means that 1/3 or 80,000 of them voted per your post, based on the above formula of many..:) :) :) Many? how about SOME?

From: Orion
13-Feb-24
It's amazing how many "hunters" will vote for this. Crazy how many claim it doesn't affect them because they don't hunt lions. Same with the spring bear.

From: cnelk
13-Feb-24
“How many is considered many”?

Enough to pass

From: Jaquomo
13-Feb-24
According to a 2015 Marist poll on hunting, 65% of hunters are opposed to "trophy hunting", which is how this referendum is being framed.

So if 80,000 hunters vote, per your estimate, that means 52,000 are at least seriously conflicted about it.

From: Orion
13-Feb-24
One is too many. So the numbers Paul posted really don't matter.

From: Orion
13-Feb-24
One is too many. So the numbers Paul posted really don't matter.

From: Ziek
13-Feb-24
At this point you have to ask; how have hunters let the antis control the rhetoric to such an extent that even many hunters think "trophy hunting" is somehow a negative term. What is the opposite of "trophy hunting" - killing females and young of the species. That is NOT good conservation. "Trophy hunting" - taking the oldest males in the population, that are nearing the end of their natural lives, is the epitome of responsible hunting, unless you are deliberately trying to reduce the population. In fact, the course prospective cougar hunters have to complete, emphasizes that approach. "Trophy hunting" absolutely does not mean killing for a "trophy" and leaving the edible portions. In fact, the hunter enjoys the meat AND the non-edible parts. True "trophy hunters" actually kill FEWER animals than most hunters. In every big game population I can think of, taking mature males according to management objectives, does NO harm to the overall population. This is the message we should be trying to get out. Since "trophy hunting" is what the CPW is in fact promoting, in particular related to cougar hunting, they should not hesitate to publish the true meaning in the Big Game Brochure, which would clarify the way "trophy hunting" is used in the petition is incorrect, already illegal, and take most of the teeth out of it should it pass.

From: Orion
13-Feb-24
Quit voting for people like polis ziek. That baby bear your wife shot that would barely make a toilet seat cover is not good conservation according to your post

From: Hondolane
13-Feb-24
Ziek you’re just a dumb sh1t . Why are u even on bowsite? U still baiting turkeys at you house to get your opening day bird? Your very much a disgrace to hunting and 2nd amendment values..

From: Jaquomo
13-Feb-24
Hunters didn't "let" the antis control the rhetoric. The Leftist mainstream media, Hollywood, and Leftist teachers and school curriculums took the rhetoric, twisted it to create a narrative, and overwhelmed anything hunters could do.

And then we have Leftist hunters voting for anti-hunting governors and legislators, and now look where we are. Leftist governors appointing anti hunters to Wildlife Commissions to make hunting policy. "We have met the enemy, and he is us".

From: Glunt@work
14-Feb-24
Hunters just want to go hunting and the rest of the time they work their butt off to afford it and get the other parts of life taken care of so they can disappear for a few days.

I can't imagine a life spent focused on taking other people's way of life away from them. Its never crossed my mind to move to some leftist area and spend my time ruining everything they love.

From: tradi-doerr
14-Feb-24
X1 Lou^^

From: Paul@thefort
14-Feb-24
Here is what we hunters are up against: How many animal rights organizations are there in the US? There are 48,898animal organizations in the United States. Combined, these animal organizations employ 147,294 people, earn more than $16 billion in revenue each year, and have assets of $35 billion.

From: Orion
14-Feb-24
hunters voting against guns and hunting is a way bigger issue

From: Paul@thefort
14-Feb-24
Ryan, can not agree with you, while that is a issue, these animal rights organizations and their sponsors are well formed and have very deep pockets and in 26 states the use of Ballot Initiatives. Hunters only make up less than 5 % of the US population and here in Colorado, maybe 5%. We are out "gunned" and out funded, and under organized as hunters. The tradition of hunting is being challenged every day. and that challenge is being fueled by emotions and not science. For example, there is a Colorado Foundation, a vegan driven, that recently gave $50,000 to the Oregon Ballot Initiative, to ban hunting, fishing and the use of livestock for human consumption and to convert to the vegan lifestyle.

From: Keepitreal
15-Feb-24

Keepitreal's Link
American hunters spend $5.3 billion dollars each year on hunting-related travel, $6.4 billion on hunting equipment, and $8.4 billion on other, related, “big-ticket” items. All things combine for an annual expenditure of $2,800 per hunter. Economic multipliers may be used to estimate the compound rippling effect of these expenditures, showing an economic impact of more than $86.9 billion dollars a year to the U.S. economy.

I maaaybe spent that much last year.

Hunting license sales peaked at roughly 17 million in the 1980s. There are 15.9 million hunting license holders in the United States as of 2023. There's on average nearly 800,000 elk licenses sold every year in the US. So according to the numbers mentioned a coupe posts ago every hunter would have to donate just about as much as they spend on hunting for one year to be competitive.

From: Keepitreal
15-Feb-24
Another interesting tid bit from that link.....

The Congressional Sportsmen’s Foundation reports that sportsmen and women spend $605 million a year on hunting dogs, which is more than skiers spend on ski equipment

From: Keepitreal
15-Feb-24
But I suppose I don't have to feed my skis every day either....wait a minute....I haven't been skiing in 20 years.

From: antler1
18-Feb-24
The world of hunting needs to distance themselves from the word "trophy" and emphasize "selective" harvest. Anti hunting groups will defeat us every time with the words trophy hunting. Even though we as hunters know what the concept of trophy hunting means the general voting public views trophy hunting as very negative and they are the ones that will decide our fate.

From: Keepitreal
18-Feb-24
Those that sit behind their trophy desk at their trophy job and drive home every day in their trophy car to their trophy house and sit on their trophy furniture with their trophy wife, husband or "partner" to be politically correct. Then discuss their next trophy vacation all while filling their local landfill with their wanton waste of a different variety.

From: Mathewsphone
22-Feb-24
We attended the meeting in Evergreen tonight very positive things from the Parks and Wildlife Department the first comment out of their mouth was we're not arguing about wolves and we're not arguing about the legislative stuff coming so if you have a problem with that leave now and yes the lion people were there trying to get signatures going to attend the one in Golden Monday

From: Ziek
23-Feb-24
Saw you on the brief clip on NBC nightly news Brandon. Good job. They didn't even mention the citizen's petition except a brief shot of their protest. The reporter had a positive view of how cougars are being managed.

From: Sandbrew
23-Feb-24

Sandbrew's Link
Nice work Brandon! My observation was out of 40 people in attendance 20-25ish hunter types, 2 clipboard toting folks, 10-15 neighbors/curious folks. I think CPW Officers and Biologists did a great job dispelling myths and providing facts. I think its key that hunters show up at these meetings to show CPW support and help get the facts out. Sandbrew

From: Orion
23-Feb-24
Ziek why are you on these threads? Your voting record says you are for the ban

From: Hondolane
23-Feb-24
Correct????????????????????^^^^

From: Hondolane
23-Feb-24
Correct????????????????????^^^^

From: Keepitreal
24-Feb-24
Mathewsphone. Was there any mention by cpw of being able to hunt or harvest lions during the regular elk seasons? Or do you think they would ever consider the ability to use an elk or deer tag on a lion if the opportunity was given? Like offering a special elk/lion or a deer/lion tag in specific units?

As a former houndsman's assistant (no, I haven't officially entered into such a highly specialized and dedicated group) I don't like the idea of loosing the hunt or the chase, but when it comes down to it some areas require other methods to keep the population in check.

From: Paul@thefort
24-Feb-24
Jamin, No mention as this study was also presented at the NE Caucus meeting. CPW has set the season outside of the big game seasons for reasons and that is to account for the lion take per regions and not during elk and deer seasons. Hard to do if elk and deer hunters are allow to just use an "opportunity was given". The quota is set for each Mt Lion region and once that quota is met, the season is over in that area. Much easier if the lion season is establishes as it is, out side of the elk and deer seasons. Also it allow the lion cubs to mature more, in the case of a female lion harvest of which the females account for 40% of the harvest, but 60 % for those are not of the age of cub production , ie, under two years old according to recent studies. Other methods? CPW was allowing the use of electronic calls in the Glennwood Springs management unit but it did not produce the results whey needed so the Commission stopped their use statewide. Hope this helps. Paul

From: Jaquomo
24-Feb-24
Thanks for the update, Paul

From: Keepitreal
25-Feb-24
Any talk of creating separate GMU boundaries for lions along the front range? Wouldn't that allow for some harvest during deer and elk seasons? That wouldn't effect the quota in other areas where hound hunting is more effective. I'd think later rifle seasons wouldn't be all that far off from the regular opener. Not like there's a month in between. I just don't know what the difference would be to take a lion during 4th rifle when the lion season starts the very next week. To me it's more about predator management than hunt opportunity. They just lumped all of north park and middle park into one lion unit quota. And that's covering both slopes.

I'll try and make the Livermore meeting...

From: Mathewsphone
26-Feb-24
I hope everybody that can make this meeting tonight can come from wherever we're trying to support not just the lions and bobcats but all hunting in Colorado we kind of got word that that lying people going to be there in force protesting so we're hoping just show some support for our side

From: Mathewsphone
26-Feb-24
A great night for Sportsman we flooded the room with Sportsman yeah we think there was 85 Sportsman out of the hundred people

From: Jaquomo
26-Feb-24
Great news, Brandon!

From: Mathewsphone
27-Feb-24
There's a meeting in Livermore tonight so I'm calling all the Northern Colorado guys to go flood this thing that would be awesome we're going to try to come up from Denver depending what the weather does to us here

From: COLO 3-D
27-Feb-24
It was good to see you last night Brandon. We filled that room up!

From: Paul@thefort
27-Feb-24
There were 120 people at the Livermore CO meeting tonight. The majority seemed to be local residents from Red Feather Lake and the area. Did not recognize any bow hunter I know. No CAT persons that presented themselves. No Sign Up for the Initiative collectors. The presentation did not go into great depths and did not mention the number of female lions killed per year, ie 40% of the total as they did at my Caucus meeting the week before. As with the other Front Range meetings, the legal issue, or ballot initiative was not part of the meeting and no discussion was allowed. I would hope that the info presented, might have changed the minds of some who may vote to ban lion hunting. We do not need to worry about the choir, ie, us hunters, those we know will vote to maintain lion hunting, it is the non choir voters that need to be convinced to also vote to maintain lion hunting as this will be the steep uphill challenge.

From: Barkeater
30-Apr-24
The good news there will be more roadkill cats to observe if they restrict hunting. I meant to say more wildlife viewing for the public.

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