Mathews Inc.
Non-Residents getting shut out!
Colorado
Contributors to this thread:
Wez 23-Feb-24
Jaquomo 23-Feb-24
cnelk 23-Feb-24
Glunt@work 23-Feb-24
Ziek 23-Feb-24
Sandbrew 23-Feb-24
Aspen Ghost 23-Feb-24
Buglmin 23-Feb-24
Wez 23-Feb-24
cptbs 23-Feb-24
Wez 23-Feb-24
JDM 23-Feb-24
Wez 23-Feb-24
cptbs 23-Feb-24
sticksender 23-Feb-24
PushCoArcher 23-Feb-24
KsRancher 23-Feb-24
Quinn @work 23-Feb-24
Orion 23-Feb-24
Glunt@work 23-Feb-24
Longcruise 23-Feb-24
Jethro 23-Feb-24
Buglmin 24-Feb-24
Jaquomo 24-Feb-24
squirrel 24-Feb-24
Jaquomo 24-Feb-24
Longcruise 24-Feb-24
Grasshopper 24-Feb-24
Jethro 24-Feb-24
Keepitreal 25-Feb-24
grasshopper 25-Feb-24
Keepitreal 25-Feb-24
grasshopper 25-Feb-24
Keepitreal 25-Feb-24
Glunt@work 25-Feb-24
cnelk 25-Feb-24
PushCoArcher 25-Feb-24
PECO2 25-Feb-24
Bowkill 26-Feb-24
Bowkill 26-Feb-24
Deercy 26-Feb-24
Jaquomo 26-Feb-24
Bowkill 27-Feb-24
Bowkill 27-Feb-24
pronghorn21 27-Feb-24
relichunter 16-Mar-24
Keepitreal 19-Mar-24
tradi-doerr 19-Mar-24
8point 26-Mar-24
From: Wez
23-Feb-24
Is it just me or does anyone else think that Colorado is doing everything possible to run off out-of-state money. I know that prices go up but really, $800+ for a bull tag $500 for a buck tag! The first year that I went to Colorado to hunt it cost me $200 bucks for both tags. To make things worse even when we are willing to pay the money now we are cut back to even less tags available. I know that I am a hick from Arkansas but even I know that I would rather have $800 over $60. Over the years our group has had a simple plan; our points were set up to where we could go Elk hunting this year and then the next year deer hunting. ( gun or black powder) On the years that we did not draw we would still come and buy bow tags over the counter. Now everything that we have hunted (several different units) are all draw. Our group which numbers around 10-12 of us have decided that Colorado does not want our money and we are looking at other possible locations to spend our money. When the money stops coming in the liberals in Colorado might wake up and wonder what happened.

From: Jaquomo
23-Feb-24
Where else are you going to hunt elk for cheap? The prices are obviously in line with expectations because every LE tag sells out, and OTC is a zoo with more NRs hunting than residents...

Or you could all move here and pay the price for living in this expensive, liberal crap hole state, and hunt elk for less.

From: cnelk
23-Feb-24
Nonres will always have a chance to hunt elk. You may not get to hunt your same area, or every year, but you will get to hunt - Only if you want to

From: Glunt@work
23-Feb-24
It stinks. I wish hunting wasn't so expensive but its only going to get worse. Living here, I guarantee living in AR and buying a nonres tag is far cheaper than living here. The cost of the other 11 months is crazy.

From: Ziek
23-Feb-24
I agree, what a rip off. My first resident elk tag cost $12.50. And there was no additional cost for a habitat stamp, and I think I remember a multi species tag at an additional discount over buying them individually. Plus there wasn't so many non-residents crowding the mountains. Ah, the good-old-days.

From: Sandbrew
23-Feb-24
Wez- Can I ask what year that was and how much a new pickup truck cost that year? "The first year that I went to Colorado to hunt it cost me $200 bucks for both tags" Tag prices are tied to the CPI and vary every year. Going down in price isn't likely for a new truck or your tags. Sandbrew

From: Aspen Ghost
23-Feb-24
Wez, in truth it is the residents who are often getting shut out which is why the NR percentages were changed this year. What would you think if Arkansas didn't let you get a permit for deer this year because they wanted to give 25 or 35% of permits to nonresidents?

From: Buglmin
23-Feb-24
How many other states do you apply for elk in? 800.00 is cheap compared to Arizona, Wyoming, New Mexico for the high demand hunts. At least Colorado gives you points and a chance to hunt decent units. Try applying in Arizona as a non resident for the high demand units. Or in New Mexico where as a non resident, some units have less then a 3% chance of drawing. Colorado has been the cheapest state and closest state to hunt elk in for years. I've told them at the round tables that they need to match other western states in licenses costs for years. Glad to see they're finally doing it. And Colorado doesn't make you front the monies up front like other western states. That's why guys apply for so many tags a year. They only have to pay the 8.00 applicantion fee.

From: Wez
23-Feb-24
My deal is that at least 2 of the units that our group hunted/trys to hunt were never crowded. We would next to never see people, why is it a draw now.

From: cptbs
23-Feb-24
"When the money stops coming in the liberals in Colorado might wake up and wonder what happened." Huh? Would the liberals in Colorado rather have: a. money from hunting licenses or b. no hunting (hint: stop spring bear, ban baiting for bear, ban using dogs for bear, bring more wolves into the state, propose lion & bobcat hunting ban) The increased license cost may cause some hunters to not come here to hunt, but I really don't think the liberals care or will wake up. They are getting what they want, plus there are many others willing to pay the increased price.

From: Wez
23-Feb-24
If the money stops, (which you are right plenty of people willing to pay, myself included I'm just mad because I can't give you money) then where's the money going to come from to build the hiking trails, the scenic overlooks, the park benches, tables, bike trails, tree restoration projects,.......ect. In my experience, the Liberal left is quick to spend government money but not to much on spending their own. Uncle Joe and his pals want to spend our money.. not their own.

From: JDM
23-Feb-24
Wez, If you're looking for sympathy, I think you came to the wrong place. Colorado is the Kmart of big game hunting. As was mentioned, CO is cheaper than a number of western states, AND you can get a tag every year, over the counter, as a NR! Tell me where else you can show up, as a NR, and buy a tag, archery or rifle, and go hunting for elk. Prices are higher at 7-11 than the grocery store. You pay for the convenience and knowing you can always come.

From: Wez
23-Feb-24
Not looking for sympathy, and yes I could get a tag every year if I wanted a tag in units with maybe a 8-10 percent success rate. You guys keep talking about what a good deal Colorado is... In case you don't know, $50- $100 difference in price really does not mean anything when you are counting the cost of an out of the state hunt, at least in my book. I hate this situation, I have always said that if I lived anywhere else than Arkansas that it would be Colorado. But, we are being forced to look elsewhere. I totally understand how you locals feel. I do not duck hunt but a lot of my friends do and we have tons of out of state duck hunters that flock to Arkansas each year. But, what my friends do understand is that the money raised from out of state tags is the main reason that we have the duck habitat that our duck hunters enjoy.

From: cptbs
23-Feb-24
where's the money going to come from to build the hiking trails, the scenic overlooks, the park benches, tables, bike trails, tree restoration projects,.......ect. Colorado and the current administration has no shortage of ways to get money from citizens. Most recently they created the idea of "enterprises" that can impose a fee(tax) on almost anything without having to get voter approval. If money from hunters stopped they would easily find a way to get the money from other sources.

From: sticksender
23-Feb-24
The glass is still half-full. I find nothing to complain about, as a prospective NR elk hunter in Colorado. Even with the recent pinching of NR allocations, where else can I be guaranteed to hunt bull elk every year, with my weapon of choice? As well as the chance to hunt 4-5 other big game species. Sure I've had to adapt and revise my unit strategy as regs and allocations have changed, but it's still very do-able. And the price is still a relative bargain compared to other options.

And there is ZERO chance that the "money will stop" from NR's. For every new boycotter, there'll be 2 or 3 more fresh camo-clad bodies to take his place.

From: PushCoArcher
23-Feb-24
You can tell you've never looked into other states. If you had you'd realize Colorado's prices are on par or cheaper then most western states and the allocation is generous compared to many. Not sure why people expect tags to stay the same price for 20 years when nothing else does.

From: KsRancher
23-Feb-24
This won't be popular from a Ks guy on the Colorado forum. But as a NR I have no gripes about the prices Colorado charges for NR tags. I don't even mind that the NR quota got whacked by 10%. Which I would guess will increase point creep for NR and help to slow R point creep.

But what bothers me is what's coming in the future. When the creep starts going back up on the residents which will cause them to not the tags they want when they want them. The CO residents will go back to wanting to slash NR quota again. That old saying "give an inch, they take a mile"

From: Quinn @work
23-Feb-24
"Our group which numbers around 10-12 of us have decided that Colorado does not want our money and we are looking at other possible locations to spend our money."

Amen...........Wish more NR's would do the same.

From: Orion
23-Feb-24
Good luck finding another state with cheaper tags or any OTC tags for that matter

From: Glunt@work
23-Feb-24
Although I think hunting is too expensive, I also know that what we have will be looked at as "the good old days".

With changing politics, wolves, development, increased demand, reduced supply, inflation, etc, the opportunity to hunt elk may look more like what sheep or moose hunting is now. Someday it may only be a memory our kids talk to their grandkids about.

From: Longcruise
23-Feb-24
Well, I nearly always hunt OTC. I rarely have points. Not a big deal for me..... until this year. Between the reduction in non res draw tags and winter losses in the NW, the non res will be piling into the OTC units! So, for me the more disgruntled non res the better.

From: Jethro
23-Feb-24
Save your $800. In 3 years you’ll have enough to get in WY special draw.

From: Buglmin
24-Feb-24
I apply for several states a year for non resident mule deer and elk tags. The cost is expensive, but you have to pay to play!!

Sorry you feel that Colorado don't want your money. But for your group of 10-12 guys that drop out, another 12-18 guys will take your place. Elk hunting in Colorado isn't what it was 15-20 years ago. Back then, elk hunting was popular and non residents weren't coming into Colorado by the thousands. Now, non resident hunter numbers have sky rocketed. CPW finally figured things out that the numbers gotta be lowered to maintain the elk herds.

Look into other western states, and see how long it takes you to draw tags. If you're happy getting a tag after 10-15 years of applying and paying over 1000.00, up front, good luck to you.

From: Jaquomo
24-Feb-24
If I'm reading the Arkansas regs correctly, to hunt ducks I need a NR hunting license ($410) plus a NR duck stamp ($50) plus a Federal waterfowl stamp ($25) plus a WMA permit ($40). So $525 to hunt a duck.

What a rip-off! Arkansas must not want our NR money...

From: squirrel
24-Feb-24
You can shoot a second duck???

From: Jaquomo
24-Feb-24
Might need a second duck tag? :-)

From: Longcruise
24-Feb-24
To add onto my above post, the piling into OTC units will eventually result in those units being shifted to draw units. Every shift will be followed by more pressure on OTC units and more of those units becoming draw units and then it will be over for OTC hunting. Of course there's always deer.... Oh, wait a second, there are fewer deer in Colorado than any time in the past 60 years.

From: Grasshopper
24-Feb-24
"So $525 to hunt a duck."

As mentioned, $2,000 for a wyoming special elk, maybe $100-200 bucks in point fees and you can draw Wyoming general.

When is this site going to upgrade to thumbs up buttons and emoticons? Isn't it 2024 now?

From: Jethro
24-Feb-24

Jethro's embedded Photo
Jethro's embedded Photo

From: Keepitreal
25-Feb-24
If a resident elk tag in Colorado went to $200 next year I'd still pay it to hunt them. Don't let them find any other means of revenue for the sake of conservation just because hunters were too cheap.

From: grasshopper
25-Feb-24
The problem with jumping to $200 is cpi increases. In 20 years, it will be unaffordable.

I'd testify against any fee increase in the legislature. The promise of the last fee increase was millions would be spent annually on public hunter access to private lands. 6 years later, nothing has been done.

I cant recall a specific instance where giving fee increases to government was ever a good idea. You care to cite any?

From: Keepitreal
25-Feb-24
I guess I can't take the time to dig into the details and agree that nothing has been done. I just know I was able to harvest a nice buck (albeit with a rifle due to time restrains of my own) last fall on a huge tract of fairly new trust land that I don't think was open to public hunting 6 years ago. I can't keep up with it all so I can only surmise that over the last 35 years my personal license and application fees with all the other garbage somehow helped make that property available for hunting by CPW's efforts. And you're right that's where the battle really needs to be pushed is the cpw leasing more slb or public owned property that is ripe for hunting acces. I read there is only around 17 or 20% of all slb property actually leased by cpw. I certainly can't control what they do with my money after it leaves my bank account and don't get me wrong, a $61 elk tag is better than a $200 one but I'm only saying I'd still be glad to pay that if it meant hunt or no hunt and a measly $5 separate fee of sorts would open a lot more STL for hunting. From what I understand a major problem with that avenue is the property damage from ignorant hunters in the past has given most state gov agencies a bad taste in their mouth about opening up more STL. As I've said before, stupid people are everywhere and some of them happen to be hunters. I'd be willing to help push for more access but like a vast majority of hunters, I don't think of myself as being all that politically savvy or have much know how in dealing with the legislative process. But hey, no better time than the present right? BTW big props to those guys out there who have and take the time along those front lines.

From: grasshopper
25-Feb-24
Guys sure toot the horn on state trust lands, I don't get it. Montana leases millions of acres of PRIVATE LANDS.

what would you rather have, a 640 acre parcel of state land that is already overgrazed from an existing ag lease, or access to private ground.

I could give a crap about state lands. Aim higher.

Likely to never happen in this state...instead we offer up otc plo tags so outfitters can lock out the public and make bank.

Going after state trust lands is like competing in the Olympics to win a bronze medal. Enjoy 3rd place.

From: Keepitreal
25-Feb-24
Well alright then sure whatever go for private leases as well. Enjoy your day.

From: Glunt@work
25-Feb-24
I'll pay more for a better product. I only ask that the product comes first. I wont pay more for the promise of a better product from a company that has consistantly produced a worse product the last few decades.

From: cnelk
25-Feb-24
Hell, I paid $303 for a Wyo cow application

From: PushCoArcher
25-Feb-24
Well said Glunt! With the past trajectory and current commission I believe there is little hope that any increased revenue would end up as a net positive for sportsmen and women. Or wildlife for that matter unless you're wolf.

From: PECO2
25-Feb-24
"If a resident elk tag in Colorado went to $200 next year I'd still pay it to hunt them." Why? And why stop at $200? How much would you pay?

From: Bowkill
26-Feb-24
The merge of the DOW and State Parks was the beginning of the end.

From: Bowkill
26-Feb-24

From: Deercy
26-Feb-24
There is still lots of nonresident opportunities in Colorado. Just the fact that you drew so much for so long is a testament to how good it still is for nonresidents. I applied for 58 hunts last year, and Colorado isn't the most expensive. It's also very liberal with nonresident allocation, even at 25 percent. And furthermore, switching from otc to draw will generate more money, and likely use more of those points up. I am in the process of leaving Colorado for an eastern state, Kentucky, and will be definitely adjusting my strategy, but I can promise you this, there are still plenty of easy to draw hunting.

From: Jaquomo
26-Feb-24
Bowkill, it's more how the CPW is transforming and becoming woke, under the leadership and commission Polis is putting in place.

From: Bowkill
27-Feb-24
That I agree with you. It’s a shame to see it disappearing down the drain. Do you remember the arguments about the merging? The Parks were woke back then too, we just didn’t use that word in our vocabulary. The Parks were a troubled group, couldn’t manage their budget always in the red but they had a quiet future vision didn’t they. They viewed sportsman as a cash cow, some of us waved the red flag and said no to the merger. Some with big influential voices in the bow hunting community were advocating hard for it, how’s that working out now? Any of them still support that decision as passionately as they once did? Mixing dysfunction into any group doesn’t result in good, they just got an extra helping of it with the Parks. Save our State Parks they cried making us focus on that, what a trojan horse.

From: Bowkill
27-Feb-24

From: pronghorn21
27-Feb-24
Jerry Sonnerberg supported the merger. Don't forget that when you vote for someone else other than him for US House of representative to fill Ken Buck's seat

From: relichunter
16-Mar-24

From: Keepitreal
19-Mar-24
Pronghorn, thanks for that little tidbit. I'd hope Mr sonnenberg is backpedaling in that regard now after the years and tears have gone by from the good ol DOW days. Like I've said before, there often has to be a few crosses pounded in on the corner before a stop light goes up. In this world sometimes it requires going thru a little pain to get the mass of an ameba to move away from the pile of cupcakes. Unfortunately there are those in govt that take advantage of a disaster for gain, only to implement more disasters. In fact I think a high ranking Democrat quoted something along those lines not long before COVID hit.

From: tradi-doerr
19-Mar-24
"The Parks were a troubled group, couldn’t manage their budget always in the red but they had a quiet future vision didn’t they."

Then the new CPW wildlife side was now in the red and parks was now in the black. One of the meetings a year or so after the merger I/others asked the wildlife side of CPW how it came to be that the wildlife side was now in the red, we were told there had been a accounting error of a negative $1+M by the (DOW) before the merger and after correcting it wildlife side went red and parks side went black, not to mention that the Colo. water rights/management made some huge changes as well after that merger, one of Sonnerberg's main focuses.

From: 8point
26-Mar-24
As long as you have kids fresh out of school affording $60,000 pickups, you'll have people that will pay whatever tag costs.

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