Understanding The Northern Deer Herd
Contributors to this thread:Wisconsin
From: Bow Crazy
16-Apr-24
Bow Crazy's Link
In the newest issue of the Wisconsin Outdoor News there is a Commentary by Bill Rands of Ladysmith, "Understanding What’s Happening With The Northern Wisconsin Deer Herd". It is an eye opening article of what he has experienced on his 3,000 acres north of Ladysmith. He has 32 live cameras, 24 trail cameras, 120 acres of food plots, year around employee, other volunteers, practice a QDM style of deer management, annual helicopter surveys since 2010, in 2020 started helicopter surveys twice a month when snow was on the ground, and more. 2002 - 2018 it sounds like they had some of the best deer hunting in the state. The first photos of wolves on the property were in 2012 and the numbers of wolf grew each year. Since 2018, the hunting has tanked. He believes there are more than 10,000 wolves in Wisconsin. This article should raise a few eye brows. BC
From: Groundhunter
16-Apr-24
I read that yesterday. We all know, without mgt, serious mgt, that herd is never coming back.
From: Live2Hunt
16-Apr-24
My fear is the people and party that were voted in to control our state and country will remain in control and the anti's win as they are now. This is what the wolf program was started for, end hunting by people. All you that hunt and voted democrat voted for the anti hunting groups to gain control and we have what we have. Media blasts the image of hunters as bad people and vote accordingly also. We need a new majority of strong people who think for themselves and be realistic to vote. Now, too many sheep that do as the media and the in Woke society tells them. Deer hunting the public forests from central WI North is a practice in what was.
From: Groundhunter
16-Apr-24
The DNR appease the anti hunt crowd, yet they are funded by trappers, hunters, who they are not fond of...... Besides the CDAC. the NRB is another joke. They don't hunt or trap. Out of touch.
From: Missouribreaks
16-Apr-24
I agree with Live2Hunt, plain as day.
From: retro
16-Apr-24
Do any of you guys actually believe the tribes would go along with removing the number of wolves it would take to make a difference? Do any of you believe they don't have the influence to keep a wolf harvest minimal at best? Not to mention all the pro wolf groups who would continually demand more studies to prevent oveharvest? Talk about it all you want, but the way things work today there's never going to be a significant wolf harvest...
From: Groundhunter
16-Apr-24
FWS just hired a national mediator for the nation's wolf conflict. 3.2 million dollars. was the contractual bill.
From: xtroutx
17-Apr-24
Retro is spot on. Sums it all up in a nutshell. For those of you not effected yet, you will be. The powers to be, are getting exactly what they have planned for. One cut at a time. I have seen pictures of the packs of wolves north of Ladysmith, 14 wolves in one field. While I think 10,000 may be on the high side, 1200 is definitely not even in the ballpark. Many are not making their photos public for various reasons. Good or bad I respect their decision. Who knows, maybe the next photo I see will only have 10 wolves in the pack.
From: Grouch
17-Apr-24
wow3 great article ! Please send this to all in wi. gov,t Especially woke veto governor Tony
From: CaptMike
17-Apr-24
Retro is spot on. Problem here is it is mostly preaching to the choir. There are simply so many people living in populated areas who are ignorant and/or have no opinion of this that unfortunately, nothing will change. Until sportsmen can get their own people united with respect to who they vote for, we have no chance of effecting any change on a state or national level.
From: Pasquinell
17-Apr-24
Lots of wolf license plates on vehicles too.
From: B2K
17-Apr-24
As I drive through the Central Forest and notice the absence of hunters as of late, I can't help but to think that the forest has also lost it's "voice". What I mean by that is without all the hunters who used to hunt there, nobody is there to stand up to protect it from possible future land use changes.
From: CaptMike
17-Apr-24
"Lots of wolf license plates on vehicles too." For sure! Just another way the libs have found to garner support from the emotional, unaffected people, to favor the wolf.
From: Grub
17-Apr-24
You seem to be forgetting that farmers lose a hell of a lot more money on lost crops from deer than lost livestock from wolves.
From: MjF
17-Apr-24
Not so much in the north anymore, you don’t hear about crop damage tags or bear tags given out like they used to.
From: RutnStrut
17-Apr-24
"Do any of you guys actually believe the tribes would go along with removing the number of wolves it would take to make a difference?"
That is yet another problem. There is no reason Indians should have a say in what happens statewide. Hell imo they shouldn't even get to be on the government tit anymore. It's not like they have it any tougher than anyone else.
From: B2K
17-Apr-24
Here's an interesting insight on crop damage. 30 years ago, Buffalo county had the highest number of crop damage in the state. Shortly thereafter and ever since there are no crop damage complaints, despite an increase in deer numbers. Why? because the value of deer (lease $) had exceeded the value of lost crops.
From: retro
17-Apr-24
Capt, I agree. The majority of our society has completely lost touch with nature. We are such a minority, I've given up hope of ever righting the ship again. Add to it a hunting industry completely focused on deer farming in the quest for giant antlers, we are our own worst enemy in regards to trying to attract new hunters to our ranks. The craze for big antlers has shut so many doors and opportunities for untold numbers of hunters... At least that's what I see. Pretty sobering where we are at right now...
From: grape
17-Apr-24
You boys are so right!
From: Missouribreaks
18-Apr-24
Yes, you guys are correct.
From: HD
19-Apr-24
I talked with a buddy the other day about his cattle business and he said he lost 22 calves last year to wolves. I bow hunt a few miles from his place and we chatted about lack of deer. I saw five wolves out of my stands last fall and no wonder we didn't see many deer. He is no longer raising beef this year and disgusted with the whole thing. Good old Bayfield county .
From: LTL JimBow
20-Apr-24
After a mind expanding experience I believe I now understand the "northern deer herd" My first question is - Why is there still a gun hunt for a deer on public land ?
From: Trickle rut
20-Apr-24
They will sell license for Buck and doe tags galore for the money it brings in, no matter how few deer there are. The fewer the deer the more valuable they become. It's gonna go the way of the Elk hunt. Get as many people to apply at 10$ a pop then charge a premium for a license. They can't do more than 8-10 Elk tags a year but at some point hunters are either going to be forced to pay a huge premium for a Buck tag or like Elk a paid lottery to pick say 5000 lucky hunters to get a tag then crush it with a huge license fee in the neighborhood of $3000.00 each. Wolves decimate the population but DNR still gets their "fee" money and all is good. They won't stop at residents drawing a tag for $3000.00 either they will be sure to "draw" from the lottery a couple hundred non residents and charge them triple and they will pay it too. If you ever see a DNR chief walking down the street notice how his hands are never in his pockets. He is looking for anybody to put his hands in their pockets. Sad but heading that way
From: Missouribreaks
21-Apr-24
I think it is good some hunters still enjoy the northwoods experience, which is relatively uncrowded by hunters, and deer.
From: Missouribreaks
21-Apr-24
Human hunters that is.
From: >>>--arrow1-->
21-Apr-24
This is circulating around the Northwoods. Good idea at first look but its a set up for failure. Why ? Because 90% of the people are tired of the political Bullshit from Madison and won't call. This will fuel the the liberal politicians the say we have very little conflicts nothing needs to be done. Sad to say I may be one of them. I've sent countless photos of all the wolf encounters to the wdnr. Because I wouldn't give them the exact location they discounted the the sighting.
From: >>>--arrow1-->
21-Apr-24
From: LTL JimBow
21-Apr-24
The economic loss from a 2024 total gun hunt shut down would force the issue . No more wolf , simple as that .
From: retro
21-Apr-24
LtL Jimbow, What's your plan to get the tribes cooperation in a substantial wolf harvest??? You don't understand treaty rights do you? Funny how many people think that the DNR or the state has the power to snap their fingers and make treaty rights go away... Go ahead and stay home this fall if you think that will solve the wolf issue...Good luck!
From: Missouribreaks
22-Apr-24
These days the economic loss from hunters staying home would have little impact on the government and their decisions. Money pours in in support of wolf programs, and diversity of ecology in general. Hunters have an inflated view of their value.
From: Missouribreaks
22-Apr-24
And, nobody in government really cares about the local impact of hunters in the northern communities.
From: MjF
22-Apr-24
MjF's Link
From: MjF
22-Apr-24
Well that didn’t work
From: Live2Hunt
22-Apr-24
Nope
From: LTL JimBow
22-Apr-24
There is just over 30 post on here describing a problem . Nobody offered not one idea on how to fix the problem . So I'm the ass for suggesting that we should not use the most efficient and effective weapon we have when the deer population is at question.
From: LTL JimBow
22-Apr-24
Nobody offers a idea for a solution to the problem and everyone is heading out for the gun hunt ? There must not be a problem .
From: retro
23-Apr-24
Your solution doesn't reduce the wolf population. It should be more than evident by now that hunters aren't in control of anything. The way things work nowadays hunters are just another voice among many other voices. Some of those other voices have real power. That's the reality whether you want to accept it or not...
From: Pete-pec
23-Apr-24
Retro, I think it's fair to say that the current method of simply complaining without actually taking action is not the solution. It's been my point all along that humans are conformists, and would rather be mad and talk big talk, than be mad and actually do something as drastic as taking the law into their own hands. While I agree that hunters will never simply stop purchasing licenses, or kill wolves illegally (at least in mass quantity), it really would have one heck of an impact if they would. People who don't steal, will steal when they're hungry. People who don't kill, will kill when they're threatened. True action only happens in desperate times, and we as hunters are just not desperate enough to take action even when there is obviously no one taking the measures they should legally and through representation. My disclaimer is this: I'm not suggesting anyone commits a crime, and if they do, they should try very hard to not get caught lol. I'm sure there are people killing wolves, and some people not buying licenses, and some not taking more than they should of a threatened resource, but it isn't enough to stop what is happening, because man is the problem. We are takers.
From: xtroutx
23-Apr-24
The biggest problem that I see is, it should not be a "threated resource". We as hunters, should not have to sacrifice tradition and enjoyment of hunting because of mismanagement at the state level. I don't have a clue on how to stop this. Management has gotten out of control. It is happening all over the country, big city votes/ monies, deciding a lifestyle for all. Very sad times. We will never stop the invasion on our privileges, we can only hope to slow them down. The wolves are here to stay (and expanding), whether you like it or not. The easy button for hunters is here to stay and will only get worse. I sure am glad I am on my way out and not my way in. I can't imagine what the next 20 years will bring in.
From: MjF
23-Apr-24
MjF's Link
From: Pasquinell
23-Apr-24
I just got in from walking my dog. I went down to the boat harbor on lake Michigan and someone spray painted in big black letters two feet long "F**K THE FREE WORLD" on the bridge for everyone to see.
The problem is much bigger than our deer world.
From: MjF
23-Apr-24
You think…. Most here are just trying to hang onto the past, which was good.
From: Live2Hunt
23-Apr-24
Sad thing is, my 2 boys and I gun deer hunted together at our camp in Sawyer county. 1 quit a couple years ago and after last year I think the other is done. Unless they can find public to hunt I believe they are done. I will still go because I have to hunt, just who I am, and am too old to move to another state to hunt. I'll retire in a couple years so maybe out of state hunts are in the future, but from my understanding, other states are having overcrowding issues on public lands, so we will have to see. Yes, I to am glad I got to hunt the good times and do not have to go into it with what we have now. What an F'd up world all together, hunting and other.
From: retro
23-Apr-24
Pete, Here's what I'm saying...everybody go and watch a few Natural Resource Board meetings. This is the reality of it. Pay attention to the people on the board and then pay attention to the public input. Regardless of the subject, watch the circus.... After watching, then come back here and tell me about how your going to change anything...
From: RutnStrut
23-Apr-24
There are a lot of hunters including people on this site that predicted this. Hunters are their own worst enemy because most refuse to adjust. The next worse enemy for hunters is some in the DNR and anti's. Which are really one in the same. For any meaningful change to happen. We need a strong org to fight for us at the political level. Such an organization does not currently exist in WI.
From: Pasquinell
23-Apr-24
Sorry to discuss this topic again but I must.
The Crossbow industry was frothing at the mouth for Wisconsin to become what we have today. This state was a major want for the Crossbow industry and we held strong against until we didn't. If you want to waste some time in your life, look at some of the older threads on the crossbow sites. It was jubilation when the law we have now passed for money while hiding behind the " it will more people in the sport" nonsense. Nothing worse than seeing an able bodied person using one and when asked why... cause it's easier is the reply.
We are our own worst enemies.
From: Live2Hunt
23-Apr-24
We are our own worst enemies.
You are correct Pasq. Challenging ones self is not for todays society. Well, some of us still enjoy it.
From: Pasquinell
23-Apr-24
This thread and topic will drop to the bottom like the rest and we will be talking about wolves, crossbows, walleye spearing etc next year and the next and the next. Luckily we had a winter with very little snow.
From: xtroutx
23-Apr-24
Your right Pasq, Grumpy old men :).
From: Gileguy
23-Apr-24
Re.ember what the DNR's Jeff Pritzl said before last season: 600,000 hunters & 1,000,000 deer.....herd is strong & hunters should have positive season......numbers have been trending up the past decade, especially in farmland zone......unique winter, severe in nw but deer fared ok......some spots in nw may be down a bit but overall numbers are up. No mention of wolves decimating the herd, no mention of all us pissed off northern hunters, just everything is fine in wonderland.
From: retro
23-Apr-24
Pasq, Those topics aren't going anywhere and neither will the conversations about them. Talking about them appears to be therapeutic for us... :>)
From: LTL JimBow
24-Apr-24
A quick search reveals that hunting in WI is a 2.5 billion industry with 88% of that related to the gun deer hunt . Im Not buying the idea we have no say or impact .
From: Missouribreaks
24-Apr-24
There is most certainly an impact, however only a portion is in the northern unit.
From: Pasquinell
24-Apr-24
I had a bass club meeting last night and saw someone I haven't talked to in awhile. During our conversation I asked how his deer season went. He owns 120 acres in Washara County. He stated his son shot a small 8 point (crossbow) and together they got three does. "Needed to thin the herd cause ther are too many does". Until the impact of wolves and crossbow in archery have hurt the deer population in the state as a whole on private, public, north and south and EVERYONE comes together on it, nothing will be done. Unfortunately the chances of everyone doing that are a pipe dream.
From: Live2Hunt
24-Apr-24
Pasq, you are correct, it may be a pipe dream nowadays. An country wide single alliance of hunters needs to be made to combat the anti/woke world for things like wolves. The single reason they are a big thing is to stop hunting period. Within the hunting community's we need to have the sub groups to bring back hunting ethics, hunting and conservation to combat the easy buttons (xguns) and advanced technology's to conserve the resources where needed. Private land hunters need to stay out of the public land hunters affairs as far as management. It is not one size fit all. For me, I don't care what happens on private lands, they are mostly the cause for the blanket view of over populations of deer in the state. These areas need to be thinned out to reality and herd health. Private land deer numbers cannot drive the deer populations as a whole state.
From: retro
24-Apr-24
LTL Jimbow, The tribes have all the power when it comes to the north. They want full protection of wolves and believe in letting the wolf population manage itself naturally. If you want to talk about who has impact and real power, look no farther than treaty rights. So how are you going to circumvent treaty rights to establish a wolf season that has a harvest significant enough to make a difference? Forget all the other pro wolf groups out there waiting to jump in if a season is considered. Let's just start with treaty rights as the first obstacle. What's your plan?
From: RutnStrut
24-Apr-24
"Im Not buying the idea we have no say or impact ."
Well hunters can't/won't agree and unite. Also nothing is effective unless done on the legislative level. Hence needing a lobbyist on our side.
From: LTL JimBow
24-Apr-24
Sounds and looks like the the "tribes" need therapy big time . If everyone throws in $20 we can provide them with unlimited therapy. Also when you consider WI DNR mission , which = protect and enhance our natural resources: our air, land and water; our wildlife, fish and forest and the ecosystems that sustain all life. To provide a healthy, sustainable environment and a full range of outdoor opportunities. To ensure the right of all people to use and enjoy these resources in their work and leisure. To work with people to understand each other's views and to carry out the public will. And in this partnership consider the future and generations to follow. OUR VALUES. If this is the mission , they should consider following through .
From: Live2Hunt
25-Apr-24
As far as the tribes, anyone who fishes and or hunts should not be going to those damn casino's. Hit them there, they will cave.
From: Grouch
25-Apr-24
heard a speaker the other day on wsau radio, Wausau, he is involved with researching voting patterns, he states 40 % of Wisconsin hunters do not vote !!! Here is a BIOG part of our troubles ! Another part is Native Americans ! I agree, Tell them what we think with our wallets, Plus if they consider themselves a seperate entity, Not U S Citizens, Then we should treat them as such, NO MORE WELFARE! NO MORE FREE SCHOOLING ! NO MORE FREE COLLEGE, FREE TRANSPORTATION TO COLLEGE, NO MORE FREE ROOM AND BOARD AT COLLEGE ! NO ROAD WORK, NO SNOWPLOWING, NO PUBLIC WORKS ! NOBODY SPENMDS A CENT AT THEIR CASINOS
From: Missouribreaks
25-Apr-24
The rhetoric sounds great but the Federal government will always use your tax dollars to support the tribes. There is nothing you can do to change this.
From: LTL JimBow
25-Apr-24
I did not know the tribes were getting that much government help . If you need that much assistance you can never have a seat at a table where decisions are being made . WOW this thing is really broken .
From: Pasquinell
26-Apr-24
When someone says northern herd or northern forrest, what is the dividing line? Hwy 64 and above or just where?
From: Missouribreaks
26-Apr-24
I generally think of it as Highway 8.
From: xtroutx
26-Apr-24
When I think of the northern forest, I go by DNR northern forest zone, which is 64 and to the north. When I think of northern herd, I think closer to hwy 8.
From: Pasquinell
26-Apr-24
How far "down" the state are packs being reported?
From: LtLJim
26-Apr-24
24$ that is the price to hunt a deer correct ? What should I expect for 24$ ? If I pay more will it be better,? Basically there are 3 levels. Public land hunt, private land hunt no deer farming . Extream deer farming on private. Thats the 3 levels. Regardless of level deer hunt the wolf , the gun , the crossbow, are all out , into the trash they go all three in the dump and celebrate with a bow in hand .
From: grape
27-Apr-24
Interested in Pasq’s question too. How far south in WI are the wolves reported? And what kind of numbers ?
From: xtroutx
27-Apr-24
I am also curious. I know of 2 packs just north of 64 and just west of 141. Beaver creek area and butler rock area. I have seen 4 in one pack and tracks of 5 in the other.
From: Live2Hunt
27-Apr-24
There are numbers of wolves in the central forest zones. I know Eau Claire and Clark county forests are full of them. Less and less deer there every year, no much for winter kill.
From: Hoot
27-Apr-24
Pasq - Fort McCoy has one of the largest packs in the state. I've seen wolves as far south as Iowa County & LaFayette which is on the state line.
From: Pasquinell
27-Apr-24
Okay the reason i ask is I have "family" in the Phlox area of Langlade that say they have them on camera.
I've yet to see the pictures though. They never used cameras in the past but have recently embraced the Lazy Boy recliner remote usage and become very tight lipped or secretive on what they see.
From: Missouribreaks
27-Apr-24
I believe Langlade country has some of the earliest confirmed wolf packs, going back a few decades.
From: MjF
27-Apr-24
In 1978 Douglas county had the first breeding pair in Wisconsin.
From: Pasquinell
27-Apr-24
Like stated above, unfortunately until they attack someone or work their way down state and have a detrimental affect on deer down here nothing will probably be done.
From: retro
28-Apr-24
There won't be anything done in the "ceded territory"... If they do arrive down south in larger numbers, all you have to do is hunt somewhere else.... At least that was the words of wisdom given to northern hunters...
From: Live2Hunt
28-Apr-24
lol, yes Retro, I do recall that, we need to relocate South to all that available land down there!!! Should never had come to this. The writing was on the wall years ago. We fell for it. Ya, it will be great to have woves on the landscape!! Oh ya, we will limit them to 350, then we will intact a hunt for them to maintain that number. BS, they had to get sued the last time and will not even try to push back on the Fed Gov. of coarse the gov is Demo’s, that some hunters even helped voting into office.
From: Pasquinell
28-Apr-24
Had a realtor send me pics of a small house in Langlade. One pic of a bedroom showed wolf posters and pictures all over the room. On the wall , dressers etc. People love them.
From: Missouribreaks
28-Apr-24
I will say it again. If you judge the deer hunting quality by the number of deer seen, I would hunt somewhere other than the northern zones infested with wolves. If you value solitude, lack of competition and hunting hard for a deer, the northern zones are the best. It is a choice !
